When the Collapse Comes...

[jon_berzerk]

Ninety five percent? And when the drugs that she stole expire? Oh...you didn't know they did that? Ahh...well they do.

She's pretty much helpless without diagnostic tools and if a patient goes into shock...well...pretty much helpless without D5W.

Raise the feet and cold compresses (if you have ice)...that'll do the trick.

Preaching? No junior. At this point, it's freestyle mockery.

Which drugs expire?

Harvard has an opinion.

Drug Expiration Dates — Do They Mean Anything?—The Family Health Guide

Most drugs have a "half-life" when prescribed. There is debate as to how long "most" drugs can be safely used past their posted expiration date. Yes, nearly every drug will retain it's efficacy past it's shelf life, but the longer you go - the less effective they are. I recall tests being done on zithro (Azithromycin) and the drug was still effective 5 years past the shelf life. I, personally wouldn't trust those drugs after say, 6 months past their expiration date.

The bottom line with ANY medication in a time of Catastrophe is that eventually, no matter HOW prepared you are - you will run out. The trick is to run out after everyone else.

Better yet, it would serve you well to practice as many sanitary practices as possible and do everything possible to stay as healthy as possible. As a former combat infantryman - the hardest thing to do in the field is to keep clean - but it is vitally important. Once you get sick - life quickly becomes a ***** out there.

Better yet, it would serve you well to practice as many sanitary practices as possible and do everything possible to stay as healthy as possible

exactly

this will be very hard for the common folk in the large city

at some point after the lights go out

the shelves go dry

the pumps that deliver water to the homes stop working

even worse the pumps that process waste water stop working

which if you still have a home

your toilet is now just a stinking chair

 

[WinterBorn]

CandyCorn, something occurred to me. And I want to take you to task for it.

With your work experience, you are in a unique position. If what the preppers in this thread have claimed is true, there are 8 or 10 people who have spent time, effort and money to assure their family and their group survives a long term collapse.

You could, if you tried, give good solid advice to these people on medical situations that could save more than a few lives. And you could do so by doing nothing more strenuous than typing. From emergency medical care to allocation of resources in a small group, there are numerous topics on which you could offer help.

And yet, you choose to belittle the preppers and ignore the possibility of a long term collapse.

How are you different from those you condemn for not sharing their food with the woman and her 10 year old daughter? That is simple. You are being selfish because you disagree politically, whereas those you denigrate are selfish in order to save their families.

 

[candycorn]

Prepper

"I've got 3 gazillion rounds of ammo, 17 tons of body armor, enough black powder to open my own armory, and to be on the safe side, I had the descendants of Colt, Remington, and Winchester each give me a vial of their blood which I injected so I would have their genes in me."

Wife of Prepper
"Honey, that's all fine and good but Jenny's fever is 104. A hospital is only 8 miles away. Can you take her to the Emergency Room"?

Prepper
"No!!! There are sick masses there"

Wife of Prepper
"Yes. But there are always sick masses at the hospitals....it pretty much goes with the territory"

Prepper
"You want me to go down there with our sick daughter and expose her to Lord knows what?"

Wife of Prepper
"If the Lord was all powerful, we wouldn't have a daughter with 104 fever. But we do. I just want my daughter to be well. I can't stand to watch her die for no reason."

Prepper
"Consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse."

Wife of Prepper
"The collapse did come but now it's over and society is slowly getting back to normal. At least during the 10 minutes a day when we are not watching Blaze TV--I do turn the channel when you doze off honey--that is what the main stream media is reporting. Do you think you can possibly take Jenny to the ER and save the life of your daughter?"

Prepper
"I'll think about it next week. In the mean time, have her chew some roots...after all, that is the way they used to treat fever!!!!
Wife of Prepper
"My 35 years of medical training tells me that simple Amoxicilin would take care of most of the infection that is causing the fever. We had shelves full of it at the hospital....one dose--1/3500 of the supply our one hospital had on hand--would save the life of your daughter. And you won't take your child there?"

"What kind of man did I marry?"

Prepper
"One who is going to survive"

Wife of Prepper
"And the rest of us?"

Prepper
"I guess we didn't prepare enough...so the daughter had to die.

Wife of Prepper
"Oh my God"

Prepper
"Junior...go dig a grave for your sister. Honey, we just can't risk going into the towns."

Daughter of Prepper
"It's okay daddy. I know you love me."

Son of Prepper
"Do I use the shovel or the spade?"

-----------

Pretty much the scenario you guys are preparing for...right?

Is it? Of course it is. I am surprised you gave us that much credit and didn't just have us shooting the daughter when she wasn't doing her chores.

No...I simply used the mentality and words from you and your fellow preppers in this one thread:

Take a look at the blue words below:

-----

Prepper

"I've got 3 gazillion rounds of ammo, 17 tons of body armor, enough black powder to open my own armory, and to be on the safe side, I had the descendants of Colt, Remington, and Winchester each give me a vial of their blood which I injected so I would have their genes in me."

Wife of Prepper
"Honey, that's all fine and good but Jenny's fever is 104. A hospital is only 8 miles away. Can you take her to the Emergency Room"?

Prepper
"No!!! There are sick masses there"

And not being among the dirty masses and dead bodies will go a long way in keeping you healthy.

Near the PODs means being near the massive crowds that have panicked. That doesn't sound like a good situation.

Wife of Prepper
"Yes. But there are always sick masses at the hospitals....it pretty much goes with the territory"

Prepper
"You want me to go down there with our sick daughter and expose her to Lord knows what?"

Wife of Prepper
"If the Lord was all powerful, we wouldn't have a daughter with 104 fever. But we do. I just want my daughter to be well. I can't stand to watch her die for no reason."

Prepper
"Consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse."

If there are not, consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse.

Wife of Prepper
"The collapse did come but now it's over and society is slowly getting back to normal. At least during the 10 minutes a day when we are not watching Blaze TV--I do turn the channel when you doze off honey--that is what the main stream media is reporting. Do you think you can possibly take Jenny to the ER and save the life of your daughter?"

Prepper
"I'll think about it next week. In the mean time, have her chew some roots...after all, that is the way they used to treat fever!!!!

There are alternatives to many medications and medical procedures.

Wife of Prepper
"My 35 years of medical training tells me that simple Amoxicilin would take care of most of the infection that is causing the fever. We had shelves full of it at the hospital....one dose--1/3500 of the supply our one hospital had on hand--would save the life of your daughter. And you won't take your child there?"

"What kind of man did I marry?"

Prepper
"One who is going to survive"

Wife of Prepper
"And the rest of us?"

Prepper
"I guess we didn't prepare enough...so the daughter had to die.

as to why the schoolmate died, well.... , i'd just tell my kid that her friends parents were unprepared .

Wife of Prepper
"Oh my God"

Prepper
"Junior...go dig a grave for your sister. Honey, we just can't risk going into the towns."

Daughter of Prepper
"It's okay daddy. I know you love me."

Son of Prepper
"Do I use the shovel or the spade?"

------

If I wanted to, I could have went outside of the thread as to where people said they would exterminate anyone looking for food.

 

[candycorn]

Now, in the event of a long term collapse, how long will the supplies last at the hospital? How long will the power stay on?

We're set to be totally self-sufficient at all of our campuses (the lay term is hospitals) for 72 hours. After that, we will begin to receive incident related supplies. From where?

CDC - PHPR - Strategic National Stockpile

There is something like 600 tons sitting around the nation and can be deployed in 12 hours.

This is backed up by VMI (Vendor Managed Inventories).

Fuel for the generators will be trucked in as needed.

How long will the pharmacy be able to maintain the stocks before a handful of armed men come in and take them?


YOu are acting as though the hospital will be untouched by the collapse.

Are you saying that you preppers are going to mobilize and try to take over the hospital? I thought you were just going to benignly sit out the apocalypse?

Knowing our plan for my system...I will feel extremely comfortable at any of our campuses...I'll put it that way.

The campuses will be affected. Supplies will dry up eventually. There is no bottomless pit of supplies. That much is true.

I'll put our planning, the SNS, and VMI and mutual aid agreements up against your Darwinism any day of the week.

 

[WinterBorn]

Prepper

"I've got 3 gazillion rounds of ammo, 17 tons of body armor, enough black powder to open my own armory, and to be on the safe side, I had the descendants of Colt, Remington, and Winchester each give me a vial of their blood which I injected so I would have their genes in me."

Wife of Prepper
"Honey, that's all fine and good but Jenny's fever is 104. A hospital is only 8 miles away. Can you take her to the Emergency Room"?

Prepper
"No!!! There are sick masses there"

Wife of Prepper
"Yes. But there are always sick masses at the hospitals....it pretty much goes with the territory"

Prepper
"You want me to go down there with our sick daughter and expose her to Lord knows what?"

Wife of Prepper
"If the Lord was all powerful, we wouldn't have a daughter with 104 fever. But we do. I just want my daughter to be well. I can't stand to watch her die for no reason."

Prepper
"Consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse."

Wife of Prepper
"The collapse did come but now it's over and society is slowly getting back to normal. At least during the 10 minutes a day when we are not watching Blaze TV--I do turn the channel when you doze off honey--that is what the main stream media is reporting. Do you think you can possibly take Jenny to the ER and save the life of your daughter?"

Prepper
"I'll think about it next week. In the mean time, have her chew some roots...after all, that is the way they used to treat fever!!!!
Wife of Prepper
"My 35 years of medical training tells me that simple Amoxicilin would take care of most of the infection that is causing the fever. We had shelves full of it at the hospital....one dose--1/3500 of the supply our one hospital had on hand--would save the life of your daughter. And you won't take your child there?"

"What kind of man did I marry?"

Prepper
"One who is going to survive"

Wife of Prepper
"And the rest of us?"

Prepper
"I guess we didn't prepare enough...so the daughter had to die.

Wife of Prepper
"Oh my God"

Prepper
"Junior...go dig a grave for your sister. Honey, we just can't risk going into the towns."

Daughter of Prepper
"It's okay daddy. I know you love me."

Son of Prepper
"Do I use the shovel or the spade?"

-----------

Pretty much the scenario you guys are preparing for...right?

Is it? Of course it is. I am surprised you gave us that much credit and didn't just have us shooting the daughter when she wasn't doing her chores.

No...I simply used the mentality and words from you and your fellow preppers in this one thread:

Take a look at the blue words below:

-----

Prepper

"I've got 3 gazillion rounds of ammo, 17 tons of body armor, enough black powder to open my own armory, and to be on the safe side, I had the descendants of Colt, Remington, and Winchester each give me a vial of their blood which I injected so I would have their genes in me."

Wife of Prepper
"Honey, that's all fine and good but Jenny's fever is 104. A hospital is only 8 miles away. Can you take her to the Emergency Room"?

Prepper
"No!!! There are sick masses there"





Wife of Prepper
"Yes. But there are always sick masses at the hospitals....it pretty much goes with the territory"

Prepper
"You want me to go down there with our sick daughter and expose her to Lord knows what?"

Wife of Prepper
"If the Lord was all powerful, we wouldn't have a daughter with 104 fever. But we do. I just want my daughter to be well. I can't stand to watch her die for no reason."

Prepper
"Consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse."


Wife of Prepper
"The collapse did come but now it's over and society is slowly getting back to normal. At least during the 10 minutes a day when we are not watching Blaze TV--I do turn the channel when you doze off honey--that is what the main stream media is reporting. Do you think you can possibly take Jenny to the ER and save the life of your daughter?"

Prepper
"I'll think about it next week. In the mean time, have her chew some roots...after all, that is the way they used to treat fever!!!!


Wife of Prepper
"My 35 years of medical training tells me that simple Amoxicilin would take care of most of the infection that is causing the fever. We had shelves full of it at the hospital....one dose--1/3500 of the supply our one hospital had on hand--would save the life of your daughter. And you won't take your child there?"

"What kind of man did I marry?"

Prepper
"One who is going to survive"

Wife of Prepper
"And the rest of us?"

Prepper
"I guess we didn't prepare enough...so the daughter had to die.

as to why the schoolmate died, well.... , i'd just tell my kid that her friends parents were unprepared .

Wife of Prepper
"Oh my God"

Prepper
"Junior...go dig a grave for your sister. Honey, we just can't risk going into the towns."

Daughter of Prepper
"It's okay daddy. I know you love me."

Son of Prepper
"Do I use the shovel or the spade?"

------

If I wanted to, I could have went outside of the thread as to where people said they would exterminate anyone looking for food.

Once again, you are selectively ignoring what we say and what the theoretical situation would be.

When you posted my quotes you even ignored that I specifically said long term collapse.

My post said: “If the situation is that of a long term collapse, the Heprin & LRI aren't going to last very long.

Plus, you make it sound as though it is impossible for humanity to survive without these prescription drugs.

There are alternatives to many medications and medical procedures. If there are not, consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse.

I can assure you, far more people will die in the violence of the urban panic than from a lack of prescription antibiotics.”


Look at that first sentence. "If the situation is that of a long term collapse, the Heprin & LRI aren't going to last very long.

The premise for the rest of my statement in contained therein. I did not say "...consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse" to be cavalier, but to be accurate.


Answer one simple question please. If there were a long term collapse, is anything I said there untrue or inaccurate?

 

[candycorn]

CandyCorn, something occurred to me. And I want to take you to task for it.

With your work experience, you are in a unique position. If what the preppers in this thread have claimed is true, there are 8 or 10 people who have spent time, effort and money to assure their family and their group survives a long term collapse.

You could, if you tried, give good solid advice to these people on medical situations that could save more than a few lives. And you could do so by doing nothing more strenuous than typing. From emergency medical care to allocation of resources in a small group, there are numerous topics on which you could offer help.

And yet, you choose to belittle the preppers and ignore the possibility of a long term collapse.

How are you different from those you condemn for not sharing their food with the woman and her 10 year old daughter? That is simple. You are being selfish because you disagree politically, whereas those you denigrate are selfish in order to save their families.

Selfish with information that is free to any and all who wish to look at it? Ready.gov

Neat indignation...far from accurate.

I belittle those who will turn away the needy when they have a year's worth of supplies. You bet. They deserve condemnation. They are being assholes.

I belittle those who feel that being in the sticks is preferable to being near the support structures and refuse to avail themselves of what is their birthright as Americans. You bet. They deserve condemnation, frankly, for being stupid.

Those who think that others who are fiercely independent will simply salute when they start barking orders are probably in for some belittlement as well.

Randall is just a hemorrhoid on the ass of humanity. He always deserves it.

 

[candycorn]

Is it? Of course it is. I am surprised you gave us that much credit and didn't just have us shooting the daughter when she wasn't doing her chores.

No...I simply used the mentality and words from you and your fellow preppers in this one thread:

Take a look at the blue words below:

-----

Prepper

"I've got 3 gazillion rounds of ammo, 17 tons of body armor, enough black powder to open my own armory, and to be on the safe side, I had the descendants of Colt, Remington, and Winchester each give me a vial of their blood which I injected so I would have their genes in me."

Wife of Prepper
"Honey, that's all fine and good but Jenny's fever is 104. A hospital is only 8 miles away. Can you take her to the Emergency Room"?

Prepper
"No!!! There are sick masses there"





Wife of Prepper
"Yes. But there are always sick masses at the hospitals....it pretty much goes with the territory"

Prepper
"You want me to go down there with our sick daughter and expose her to Lord knows what?"

Wife of Prepper
"If the Lord was all powerful, we wouldn't have a daughter with 104 fever. But we do. I just want my daughter to be well. I can't stand to watch her die for no reason."

Prepper
"Consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse."


Wife of Prepper
"The collapse did come but now it's over and society is slowly getting back to normal. At least during the 10 minutes a day when we are not watching Blaze TV--I do turn the channel when you doze off honey--that is what the main stream media is reporting. Do you think you can possibly take Jenny to the ER and save the life of your daughter?"

Prepper
"I'll think about it next week. In the mean time, have her chew some roots...after all, that is the way they used to treat fever!!!!


Wife of Prepper
"My 35 years of medical training tells me that simple Amoxicilin would take care of most of the infection that is causing the fever. We had shelves full of it at the hospital....one dose--1/3500 of the supply our one hospital had on hand--would save the life of your daughter. And you won't take your child there?"

"What kind of man did I marry?"

Prepper
"One who is going to survive"

Wife of Prepper
"And the rest of us?"

Prepper
"I guess we didn't prepare enough...so the daughter had to die.



Wife of Prepper
"Oh my God"

Prepper
"Junior...go dig a grave for your sister. Honey, we just can't risk going into the towns."

Daughter of Prepper
"It's okay daddy. I know you love me."

Son of Prepper
"Do I use the shovel or the spade?"

------

If I wanted to, I could have went outside of the thread as to where people said they would exterminate anyone looking for food.

Once again, you are selectively ignoring what we say and what the theoretical situation would be.

When you posted my quotes you even ignored that I specifically said long term collapse.

My post said: “If the situation is that of a long term collapse, the Heprin & LRI aren't going to last very long.

Plus, you make it sound as though it is impossible for humanity to survive without these prescription drugs.

There are alternatives to many medications and medical procedures. If there are not, consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse.

I can assure you, far more people will die in the violence of the urban panic than from a lack of prescription antibiotics.”


Look at that first sentence. "If the situation is that of a long term collapse, the Heprin & LRI aren't going to last very long.

The premise for the rest of my statement in contained therein. I did not say "...consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse" to be cavalier, but to be accurate.


Answer one simple question please. If there were a long term collapse, is anything I said there untrue or inaccurate?

Post 584....

 

[WinterBorn]

Now, in the event of a long term collapse, how long will the supplies last at the hospital? How long will the power stay on?

We're set to be totally self-sufficient at all of our campuses (the lay term is hospitals) for 72 hours. After that, we will begin to receive incident related supplies. From where?

CDC - PHPR - Strategic National Stockpile

There is something like 600 tons sitting around the nation and can be deployed in 12 hours.

This is backed up by VMI (Vendor Managed Inventories).

Fuel for the generators will be trucked in as needed.

How long will the pharmacy be able to maintain the stocks before a handful of armed men come in and take them?


YOu are acting as though the hospital will be untouched by the collapse.

Are you saying that you preppers are going to mobilize and try to take over the hospital? I thought you were just going to benignly sit out the apocalypse?

Knowing our plan for my system...I will feel extremely comfortable at any of our campuses...I'll put it that way.

The campuses will be affected. Supplies will dry up eventually. There is no bottomless pit of supplies. That much is true.

I'll put our planning, the SNS, and VMI and mutual aid agreements up against your Darwinism any day of the week.

So you insist that EMP/Solar storm events are impossible? Funny, the scientific community disagrees with you.

And no, I am not saying preppers will mobilize to try and take over the hospital. But the masses will certainly flood the hospital seeking food, shelter, protection, and comfort.

In the greater Atlanta area there are roughly 5.5 million people. If only 20% panic, you are looking at over a million people coming unglued. There are no resources to contain that.

Any supply trucks that try to move will be mobbed. That is simply a realistic view.

There are over 250 cities with populations greater than 100k. The stored supplies will quickly be sucked up. And that is assuming the supplies can be transported.

Your view, in every post, assumes an infrastructure exists and can be utilized.

You refuse to even have a hypothetical discussion of what will happen in the even of another solar storm like the Carrington Event. Why?

 

[WinterBorn]

No...I simply used the mentality and words from you and your fellow preppers in this one thread:

Take a look at the blue words below:

-----



Once again, you are selectively ignoring what we say and what the theoretical situation would be.

When you posted my quotes you even ignored that I specifically said long term collapse.

My post said: “If the situation is that of a long term collapse, the Heprin & LRI aren't going to last very long.

Plus, you make it sound as though it is impossible for humanity to survive without these prescription drugs.

There are alternatives to many medications and medical procedures. If there are not, consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse.

I can assure you, far more people will die in the violence of the urban panic than from a lack of prescription antibiotics.”


Look at that first sentence. "If the situation is that of a long term collapse, the Heprin & LRI aren't going to last very long.

The premise for the rest of my statement in contained therein. I did not say "...consider it one of the risks of surviving the collapse" to be cavalier, but to be accurate.


Answer one simple question please. If there were a long term collapse, is anything I said there untrue or inaccurate?

Post 584....

Post 584? You mean the one in which you plan to reply on supplies and fuel trucked in from long distances?

You obviously refuse to consider that the trucks may not be running or that they cannot get thru.

If there is an EMP of Carrington Event magnitude solar storm, communications will be down, so you cannot call for resupply. No modern truck will be operational. The pumps on teh fuel tanks will cease to function.

And yet, you still insist that the infrastructure will be there and all you need to do is hang on for 72 hours.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

None of the long term collapse scenarios are a sure thing. But to deny that they are possible is insane.

 

[WinterBorn]

CandyCorn, something occurred to me. And I want to take you to task for it.

With your work experience, you are in a unique position. If what the preppers in this thread have claimed is true, there are 8 or 10 people who have spent time, effort and money to assure their family and their group survives a long term collapse.

You could, if you tried, give good solid advice to these people on medical situations that could save more than a few lives. And you could do so by doing nothing more strenuous than typing. From emergency medical care to allocation of resources in a small group, there are numerous topics on which you could offer help.

And yet, you choose to belittle the preppers and ignore the possibility of a long term collapse.

How are you different from those you condemn for not sharing their food with the woman and her 10 year old daughter? That is simple. You are being selfish because you disagree politically, whereas those you denigrate are selfish in order to save their families.

Selfish with information that is free to any and all who wish to look at it? Ready.gov

Neat indignation...far from accurate.

I belittle those who will turn away the needy when they have a year's worth of supplies. You bet. They deserve condemnation. They are being assholes.

I belittle those who feel that being in the sticks is preferable to being near the support structures and refuse to avail themselves of what is their birthright as Americans. You bet. They deserve condemnation, frankly, for being stupid.

Those who think that others who are fiercely independent will simply salute when they start barking orders are probably in for some belittlement as well.

Randall is just a hemorrhoid on the ass of humanity. He always deserves it.

And you deserve scorn for refusing to actually engage in a rational conversation concerning potential events that would remove the support structures that you claim will stop any disaster from lasting more than a week.

Much of your scorn was heeped on remarks that are perfectly valid in the situation under which they were said to be preparing for. And you ignore every one of the preppers remarks that they would be more than willing to help in a short-term disaster.

 

[candycorn]

Now, in the event of a long term collapse, how long will the supplies last at the hospital? How long will the power stay on?

We're set to be totally self-sufficient at all of our campuses (the lay term is hospitals) for 72 hours. After that, we will begin to receive incident related supplies. From where?

CDC - PHPR - Strategic National Stockpile

There is something like 600 tons sitting around the nation and can be deployed in 12 hours.

This is backed up by VMI (Vendor Managed Inventories).

Fuel for the generators will be trucked in as needed.

How long will the pharmacy be able to maintain the stocks before a handful of armed men come in and take them?


YOu are acting as though the hospital will be untouched by the collapse.

Are you saying that you preppers are going to mobilize and try to take over the hospital? I thought you were just going to benignly sit out the apocalypse?

Knowing our plan for my system...I will feel extremely comfortable at any of our campuses...I'll put it that way.

The campuses will be affected. Supplies will dry up eventually. There is no bottomless pit of supplies. That much is true.

I'll put our planning, the SNS, and VMI and mutual aid agreements up against your Darwinism any day of the week.

So you insist that EMP/Solar storm events are impossible? Funny, the scientific community disagrees with you.

Surely you can quote me saying that. Oh wait, no you can't.

And no, I am not saying preppers will mobilize to try and take over the hospital. But the masses will certainly flood the hospital seeking food, shelter, protection, and comfort.

I'm sure they will. The public health authorities have plans in place for that. Of which our campuses play a prominent role.

Seriously...do you think we're just going to open the doors and wait? We have plans in place...they are comprehensive and very detailed; One of the credentialing aspects of my job is to identify those with language skills. So that they may translate during an emergency when someone who speaks Cantonese shows up.

It's pretty comical that we're having this conversation where you're swear you're prepared but somehow the MPH's, PhD's, and others experienced in disaster response haven't given it a thought.

In the greater Atlanta area there are roughly 5.5 million people. If only 20% panic, you are looking at over a million people coming unglued. There are no resources to contain that.

There is a term we used called the "worried well". This is the problem any response faces. A guy with a cough thinking he has been exposed to anthrax comes to your door and you have to squander precious time and resources dealing with it.

Medical epidemiology will weed them out.

When you say, "There are no resources to contain that"....you should reconsider that comment.

Any supply trucks that try to move will be mobbed. That is simply a realistic view.

It could happen. Then again armed escort will be necessary; unfortunate but necessary.

There are over 250 cities with populations greater than 100k. The stored supplies will quickly be sucked up. And that is assuming the supplies can be transported.

Of course they will....not.

Your view, in every post, assumes an infrastructure exists and can be utilized.

I'm certain there will be pressure points where a bridge is gone or an overpass is no longer usable. The response will take longer to get there. And yes, people will die.

Out in the boonies meanwhile, I'm sure it never floods, tornadoes never have trees land on your access door, wild fires never take place...

The difference is that when floods, tornadoes, or fires do hit; the national guardsmen and women show up in the cities first; not some random patch of Dixie.

True fact bro.

You refuse to even have a hypothetical discussion of what will happen in the even of another solar storm like the Carrington Event. Why?

Hilarious.

All you have proposed are hypotheticals.

Like 5.5 million people will be equally crazy, taking to the streets with guns and ammo and knock over anything still running.

Atlanta's 2014 winter weather storm leaves thousands stranded | 11alive.com

I seem to have missed the rioting and looting that occurred during the state of emergency earlier this year in Atlanta.

Two planes slammed into the WTC in NY. Do you remember widespread looting, panic, people going apeshit crazy? No? Neither do I.

Anthrax attacks hit the NE shortly thereafter. Do you recall the quarantining of millions and roads and bridges being clogged with masses trying to flee? Yeah...me neither.

Was there flat out incompetence in the Katrina response? Yes. Yes there was. No planning is perfect and no execution is perfect either.

The most pressing issues will be related to Mother Nature (like Katrina). Nearly any catastrophe (acronym is B-NICE Biological, Nuke, Incendiary, Chemical, Explosive) attack is comparatively easy.

 

[candycorn]

CandyCorn, something occurred to me. And I want to take you to task for it.

With your work experience, you are in a unique position. If what the preppers in this thread have claimed is true, there are 8 or 10 people who have spent time, effort and money to assure their family and their group survives a long term collapse.

You could, if you tried, give good solid advice to these people on medical situations that could save more than a few lives. And you could do so by doing nothing more strenuous than typing. From emergency medical care to allocation of resources in a small group, there are numerous topics on which you could offer help.

And yet, you choose to belittle the preppers and ignore the possibility of a long term collapse.

How are you different from those you condemn for not sharing their food with the woman and her 10 year old daughter? That is simple. You are being selfish because you disagree politically, whereas those you denigrate are selfish in order to save their families.

Selfish with information that is free to any and all who wish to look at it? Ready.gov

Neat indignation...far from accurate.

I belittle those who will turn away the needy when they have a year's worth of supplies. You bet. They deserve condemnation. They are being assholes.

I belittle those who feel that being in the sticks is preferable to being near the support structures and refuse to avail themselves of what is their birthright as Americans. You bet. They deserve condemnation, frankly, for being stupid.

Those who think that others who are fiercely independent will simply salute when they start barking orders are probably in for some belittlement as well.

Randall is just a hemorrhoid on the ass of humanity. He always deserves it.

And you deserve scorn for refusing to actually engage in a rational conversation concerning potential events that would remove the support structures that you claim will stop any disaster from lasting more than a week.

Much of your scorn was heeped on remarks that are perfectly valid in the situation under which they were said to be preparing for. And you ignore every one of the preppers remarks that they would be more than willing to help in a short-term disaster.

Yeah..scorn me.

At the end of the day,

A hungry woman and her 10 year old daughter show up on my doorstep . I'm feeding them.

You're the one saying, "It depends."

I'll wear your scorn as a badge of honor.

 

[candycorn]

Post 584....

Post 584? You mean the one in which you plan to reply on supplies and fuel trucked in from long distances?

Sure. When you train with it over and over, you gain confidence and don't have to rely on anecdotes and

You obviously refuse to consider that the trucks may not be running or that they cannot get thru.

Which may be why the distribution hubs are located in airports and the docks can be converted to sally ports (psst...most of ours already are).

If there is an EMP of Carrington Event magnitude solar storm, communications will be down, so you cannot call for resupply. No modern truck will be operational. The pumps on teh fuel tanks will cease to function.

Is that when Jesus returns? I'm confused.

And yet, you still insist that the infrastructure will be there and all you need to do is hang on for 72 hours.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

None of the long term collapse scenarios are a sure thing. But to deny that they are possible is insane.

To bank on survival and forming a bunch of untrained folks into a cohesive unit capable of doing anything other than defending a track of nothingness in the middle of nowhere may be equally insane.

I will say this. Those pine trees are yours...you've planned well and prepped for them. Enjoy them I suppose. I surrender...you have the trees....yipee!!

 

[WinterBorn]

We're set to be totally self-sufficient at all of our campuses (the lay term is hospitals) for 72 hours. After that, we will begin to receive incident related supplies. From where?

CDC - PHPR - Strategic National Stockpile

There is something like 600 tons sitting around the nation and can be deployed in 12 hours.

This is backed up by VMI (Vendor Managed Inventories).

Fuel for the generators will be trucked in as needed.




Are you saying that you preppers are going to mobilize and try to take over the hospital? I thought you were just going to benignly sit out the apocalypse?

Knowing our plan for my system...I will feel extremely comfortable at any of our campuses...I'll put it that way.

The campuses will be affected. Supplies will dry up eventually. There is no bottomless pit of supplies. That much is true.

I'll put our planning, the SNS, and VMI and mutual aid agreements up against your Darwinism any day of the week.

So you insist that EMP/Solar storm events are impossible? Funny, the scientific community disagrees with you.

Surely you can quote me saying that. Oh wait, no you can't.



I'm sure they will. The public health authorities have plans in place for that. Of which our campuses play a prominent role.

Seriously...do you think we're just going to open the doors and wait? We have plans in place...they are comprehensive and very detailed; One of the credentialing aspects of my job is to identify those with language skills. So that they may translate during an emergency when someone who speaks Cantonese shows up.

It's pretty comical that we're having this conversation where you're swear you're prepared but somehow the MPH's, PhD's, and others experienced in disaster response haven't given it a thought.


There is a term we used called the "worried well". This is the problem any response faces. A guy with a cough thinking he has been exposed to anthrax comes to your door and you have to squander precious time and resources dealing with it.

Medical epidemiology will weed them out.

When you say, "There are no resources to contain that"....you should reconsider that comment.



It could happen. Then again armed escort will be necessary; unfortunate but necessary.



Of course they will....not.

Your view, in every post, assumes an infrastructure exists and can be utilized.

I'm certain there will be pressure points where a bridge is gone or an overpass is no longer usable. The response will take longer to get there. And yes, people will die.

Out in the boonies meanwhile, I'm sure it never floods, tornadoes never have trees land on your access door, wild fires never take place...

The difference is that when floods, tornadoes, or fires do hit; the national guardsmen and women show up in the cities first; not some random patch of Dixie.

True fact bro.

You refuse to even have a hypothetical discussion of what will happen in the even of another solar storm like the Carrington Event. Why?

Hilarious.

All you have proposed are hypotheticals.

Like 5.5 million people will be equally crazy, taking to the streets with guns and ammo and knock over anything still running.

Atlanta's 2014 winter weather storm leaves thousands stranded | 11alive.com

I seem to have missed the rioting and looting that occurred during the state of emergency earlier this year in Atlanta.

Two planes slammed into the WTC in NY. Do you remember widespread looting, panic, people going apeshit crazy? No? Neither do I.

Anthrax attacks hit the NE shortly thereafter. Do you recall the quarantining of millions and roads and bridges being clogged with masses trying to flee? Yeah...me neither.

Was there flat out incompetence in the Katrina response? Yes. Yes there was. No planning is perfect and no execution is perfect either.

The most pressing issues will be related to Mother Nature (like Katrina). Nearly any catastrophe (acronym is B-NICE Biological, Nuke, Incendiary, Chemical, Explosive) attack is comparatively easy.

The snow storm in Atlanta, the 9/11 attacks, the anthrax scare and even Katrina lasted how long?? And were they widespread or localized?

In all of those situations, the preppers (like myself) are helping out. I have been part of disaster relief or worked in industries that were on the scene since I was a teenager. None of those are what has been discussed as a long term collapse.

Another bit of your selective editing concerning the 5.5 million people in Atlanta. Did I say 5.5 million in a panic? Or did I use a more realistic figure of 20% of that number?

You want the preppers who prepare for long term collapse to comment, and yet you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of anything on the scale we are discussing.

Your scorn is accepted. I have tried, over and over, to bring up potential scenarios. And you continue to treat it all as if it were only possible to have a local event lasting a week or two.

 

[WinterBorn]

Selfish with information that is free to any and all who wish to look at it? Ready.gov

Neat indignation...far from accurate.

I belittle those who will turn away the needy when they have a year's worth of supplies. You bet. They deserve condemnation. They are being assholes.

I belittle those who feel that being in the sticks is preferable to being near the support structures and refuse to avail themselves of what is their birthright as Americans. You bet. They deserve condemnation, frankly, for being stupid.

Those who think that others who are fiercely independent will simply salute when they start barking orders are probably in for some belittlement as well.

Randall is just a hemorrhoid on the ass of humanity. He always deserves it.

And you deserve scorn for refusing to actually engage in a rational conversation concerning potential events that would remove the support structures that you claim will stop any disaster from lasting more than a week.

Much of your scorn was heeped on remarks that are perfectly valid in the situation under which they were said to be preparing for. And you ignore every one of the preppers remarks that they would be more than willing to help in a short-term disaster.

Yeah..scorn me.

At the end of the day,

A hungry woman and her 10 year old daughter show up on my doorstep . I'm feeding them.

You're the one saying, "It depends."

I'll wear your scorn as a badge of honor.

And if you were honest, you would admit that it does, in fact, depend on the situation.

I have planned to protect my family. And, as I have said numerous times, I am willing to help as long as it does not endanger my family. You refuse to acknowledge that part. I wonder why? If my not being willing to risk my family's survival in order to provide very temporary aid for someone earns me your scorn, I will wear that scorn as a badge of honor as well.

 

[WinterBorn]

Post 584....

Post 584? You mean the one in which you plan to reply on supplies and fuel trucked in from long distances?

Sure. When you train with it over and over, you gain confidence and don't have to rely on anecdotes and



Which may be why the distribution hubs are located in airports and the docks can be converted to sally ports (psst...most of ours already are).

If there is an EMP of Carrington Event magnitude solar storm, communications will be down, so you cannot call for resupply. No modern truck will be operational. The pumps on teh fuel tanks will cease to function.

Is that when Jesus returns? I'm confused.

And yet, you still insist that the infrastructure will be there and all you need to do is hang on for 72 hours.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

None of the long term collapse scenarios are a sure thing. But to deny that they are possible is insane.

To bank on survival and forming a bunch of untrained folks into a cohesive unit capable of doing anything other than defending a track of nothingness in the middle of nowhere may be equally insane.

I will say this. Those pine trees are yours...you've planned well and prepped for them. Enjoy them I suppose. I surrender...you have the trees....yipee!!

Obviously the possibility of another solar storm, like the Carrington Event, is beyond what can be accepted by your mind, so you ignore it or attempt to ridicule it. News flash: It has already happened. And it can happen again. But you prefer to remark with some ignorance about Jesus returning. lol

And yes, I will bank on a group of determined people to take care of themselves. And that nothingness has fish, game, and edible foliage available for those who know how to gather it. My pine forests will feed and shelter me.

You will have to contend with massive hordes of scared, desperate people willing to fight for a scrap of food. I will be miles and miles from any such crowds.

I like my chances of survival better than yours.

At least I am willing to look at realistic situations.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And candy continues to ignore the fact that the National Guard wont be coming to the rescue with no vehicles. And how exactly are the National Guard troops going to report for duty without vehicles?

And stop trying to use events such as Katrina to prove your point. Every instance you tried to use had outside help available. If it's a Carrington type event that help won't be coming.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Post 584? You mean the one in which you plan to reply on supplies and fuel trucked in from long distances?

Sure. When you train with it over and over, you gain confidence and don't have to rely on anecdotes and



Which may be why the distribution hubs are located in airports and the docks can be converted to sally ports (psst...most of ours already are).



Is that when Jesus returns? I'm confused.

And yet, you still insist that the infrastructure will be there and all you need to do is hang on for 72 hours.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

None of the long term collapse scenarios are a sure thing. But to deny that they are possible is insane.

To bank on survival and forming a bunch of untrained folks into a cohesive unit capable of doing anything other than defending a track of nothingness in the middle of nowhere may be equally insane.

I will say this. Those pine trees are yours...you've planned well and prepped for them. Enjoy them I suppose. I surrender...you have the trees....yipee!!

Obviously the possibility of another solar storm, like the Carrington Event, is beyond what can be accepted by your mind, so you ignore it or attempt to ridicule it. News flash: It has already happened. And it can happen again. But you prefer to remark with some ignorance about Jesus returning. lol

And yes, I will bank on a group of determined people to take care of themselves. And that nothingness has fish, game, and edible foliage available for those who know how to gather it. My pine forests will feed and shelter me.

You will have to contend with massive hordes of scared, desperate people willing to fight for a scrap of food. I will be miles and miles from any such crowds.

I like my chances of survival better than yours.

At least I am willing to look at realistic situations.

We can only hope the vast majority thinks like candy. The killing will be over with sooner if you group em all together. Then we can get back to restoring order sooner and we can do it with people who have common sense.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Sure. When you train with it over and over, you gain confidence and don't have to rely on anecdotes and



Which may be why the distribution hubs are located in airports and the docks can be converted to sally ports (psst...most of ours already are).



Is that when Jesus returns? I'm confused.




To bank on survival and forming a bunch of untrained folks into a cohesive unit capable of doing anything other than defending a track of nothingness in the middle of nowhere may be equally insane.

I will say this. Those pine trees are yours...you've planned well and prepped for them. Enjoy them I suppose. I surrender...you have the trees....yipee!!

Obviously the possibility of another solar storm, like the Carrington Event, is beyond what can be accepted by your mind, so you ignore it or attempt to ridicule it. News flash: It has already happened. And it can happen again. But you prefer to remark with some ignorance about Jesus returning. lol

And yes, I will bank on a group of determined people to take care of themselves. And that nothingness has fish, game, and edible foliage available for those who know how to gather it. My pine forests will feed and shelter me.

You will have to contend with massive hordes of scared, desperate people willing to fight for a scrap of food. I will be miles and miles from any such crowds.

I like my chances of survival better than yours.

At least I am willing to look at realistic situations.

We can only hope the vast majority thinks like candy. The killing will be over with sooner if you group em all together. Then we can get back to restoring order sooner and we can do it with people who have common sense.

If the power grid goes down, plague and starvation will be long term worries for the majority and they will fail to survive it, mostly.

Of the 5% who do survive, about 4% of those will be lame asses who will have to barter their services for food and protection, the reintroduction of the serf.

The brigands that manage to adapt will have to be hunted down before they form large scale orgs and start a war lord system.

But all this is contingent on a large scale natural disaster that brings down the grid. It is truly amazing how dependent we have become on electricity.

 

[candycorn]

Post 584? You mean the one in which you plan to reply on supplies and fuel trucked in from long distances?

Sure. When you train with it over and over, you gain confidence and don't have to rely on anecdotes and



Which may be why the distribution hubs are located in airports and the docks can be converted to sally ports (psst...most of ours already are).



Is that when Jesus returns? I'm confused.

And yet, you still insist that the infrastructure will be there and all you need to do is hang on for 72 hours.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see".

None of the long term collapse scenarios are a sure thing. But to deny that they are possible is insane.

To bank on survival and forming a bunch of untrained folks into a cohesive unit capable of doing anything other than defending a track of nothingness in the middle of nowhere may be equally insane.

I will say this. Those pine trees are yours...you've planned well and prepped for them. Enjoy them I suppose. I surrender...you have the trees....yipee!!

Obviously the possibility of another solar storm, like the Carrington Event, is beyond what can be accepted by your mind, so you ignore it or attempt to ridicule it. News flash: It has already happened. And it can happen again. But you prefer to remark with some ignorance about Jesus returning. lol

And yes, I will bank on a group of determined people to take care of themselves. And that nothingness has fish, game, and edible foliage available for those who know how to gather it. My pine forests will feed and shelter me.

You will have to contend with massive hordes of scared, desperate people willing to fight for a scrap of food. I will be miles and miles from any such crowds.

I like my chances of survival better than yours.

At least I am willing to look at realistic situations.

Realistic solutions?

You have one nut job prepper talking about sawing off limbs.

You're willing to forego readily available antibiotics in favor of what, roots and leeches?

Keep telling yourself that.