When the Collapse Comes...

[pismoe]

as to why the schoolmate died of hunger , well , i'd just tell my kid that her friends parents were unprepared .

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why would people NOT make preparations for a crisis?
Why do you think you do not need to worry about being w/o access to food and water and power for more than a few hours?

 

[WinterBorn]

Well, you have to remember the formula...

Anonymity + A platform = idiot.

As for "me and mine" come first, I endorse that. What I have a problem with is the "Well, they had their chance to prepare for ______________"; tough shit if they don't have 6 months of supplies at their fingertips.

Nobody alive today remembers World War I much less when society really broke down during the Civil War. Few remember the hardships imposed by WWII. Yet these preppers think we all should know how to skin a buck with one hand while starting a fire with a stick using the other.

It's comical and I doubt those on this forum would turn away the woman and her daughter. The "it depends" is weak but I understand why they lean on it; it's easy to not take a position.

LOL! So you dislike my answer and instead of addressing the reality of it, you choose to ridicule it? lol In truth, what I do would depend on the situation. That is not weak and it is not refusing to take a position. I clearly stated that I would help them unless it meant risking my family. By way of comparison, every first responder is taught to help only when you can do so without endangering yourself. Every life guard is taught to rescue the swimmer only if you can do so without them drowning you. But I guess those people are heartless too?

Here is the basis for my answer. The question you posed was meant to show anyone who faced the truth of the matter is a bloodthirsty asshole. It failed.

Now, the chances of the situation coming to pass may be slim. I accept that and I am glad of it. However, the fact that I have some preparations towards events that are unlikely does not make me delusional. A fire in my home is unlikely too. But I still have fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in my home.

And if there is a breakdown of society, for whatever reason, there will be some grim realities for those who wish to survive. Just as I will shoot anyone breaking into myhome and threatening my family's safety, I will do whatever it takes to insure the survival of those I love. It may not be pretty, but it is accurate.

The idea that it will be some sort of picnic, and the preppers choose not to invite everyone is nonsense. It will gruesome. There will be dead and dying people all around. People will be forced to eat things that will turn our stomachs now. But when the choice is eating rats or starving, suddenly rat becomes a delicacy.


And comparing wars from 100 years ago to the devastation that can be wrought now is a waste of time. In 1914 (WWI), it would take years to destroy the US. Now it could be done in a matter of hours. In 1914, the destruction of oil processing facilities and fuel storage facilities would be an inconvenience, at the worst. The same scenario now would mean the starvation of hundreds of thousands of people.

Also, as I stated before, I have firearms because I like to shoot and hunt for recreation. The fact that I would use those tools of my hobbies to protect my home and family is not evil, but practical.

I didn't know "it depends " was yours. I seem to recall it being said a few times.

It's weak. Sorry; but it is.

If that is your position; fine I suppose. You'll have to live with it and explain to your kids why you condemned their schoolmate to death (possibly). Hint: You won't be able to justify it to your kid or your Lord. Ever.

Again, where I have a problem is with this crazy mentality that everyone should be prepared for anything at all times and if they aren't...well, they are worthless and weak.

You hear a noise outside your home. Do you go investigate? The correct answer would be "It depends". It would depend on whether it was day or night, on whether it was storming or clear, and on what it sounded like.

You see someone drowning, and you are the only one present. Do you jump in the water to save them? The correct answer would be "It depends". Are you physically capable of getting them out? Is the water freezing cold or warm enough to survive? Is it calm water or a raging torrent?

"It depends" is an absolutely fine answer, if you are being truthful.

Simply stating that two people need help, without looking at the details of the situation, is not definitive.

When I was in the Navy we had regular training on the worst case scenarios. If there was flooding, you closed and locked the watertight doors. I had some VERY good friends onboard my boat. Closing those doors quickly would mean their death. Not closing them would increase the likelihood of everyone on the boat dying.

And yes, I will justify the deaths by explaining things just as I have here. (my kids are grown) As for any Lord, you pray for help and see what happens?

 

[pismoe]

and , you can't be prepared for everything all the time and everywhere but people in L.A. Cali should at least be kinda prepared for an earthquake Candy . And people on Cali and Oregons and Japans coast ought to be prepared for a Tsunami same as a resident of the U.P. of Michigan should be prepared for a blizzard . As I'm from the U.P. I and my parents never prepared for Sandstorms or extreme heat or tsunamis but we did prepare for blizzards .

 

[WinterBorn]

Candycorn, you say you have a go-bag with the necessary food & water to survive for 72 hours.

Suppose there is a crisis, and you see 2 families with no preparations. Do you share your provisions with them? Split your go-bag 8 or 9 ways?

 

[pismoe]

and why do some people know about ww1 , ww2 and the civil war that you mention while others don't know about them and who's fault is that Candy . The answer is probably that its the public schools fault but public schools and reading newspapers in the late 50s taught me about these historical events when I went to school . They also taught me about the civil war . Why did I as a 10 year old know about the Nazis , concentration camps , Nuremberg trials , Hiroshima , Nagasaki , civil war and other events but now the excuse is that people don't remember these events so they see no reason to prepare .

 

[candycorn]

Candycorn, you say you have a go-bag with the necessary food & water to survive for 72 hours.

Suppose there is a crisis, and you see 2 families with no preparations. Do you share your provisions with them? Split your go-bag 8 or 9 ways?

Yup.

Without question. Share; not give away all. Then again...I have faith in the structure. The 72 hour go bag is a req for my job.

 

[WinterBorn]

Candycorn, you say you have a go-bag with the necessary food & water to survive for 72 hours.

Suppose there is a crisis, and you see 2 families with no preparations. Do you share your provisions with them? Split your go-bag 8 or 9 ways?

Yup.

Without question. Share; not give away all. Then again...I have faith in the structure. The 72 hour go bag is a req for my job.

Faith in the system is fine. But the basic premise of the scenarios we are discussing is that the system is gone.

If you could not stay with the families, would you give them the go-bag and go on to where your work required you to be?

 

[pismoe]

I think that EMP is another concern , if an EMP device goes off over the USA there may be no system at all . I think that EMP is a concern to many people and some of those people are USA defense people and Government that try to protect the USA from EMP .

 

[polarbear]

I think you're off your rocker and have been incredibly sheltered.

Okay, play out the scenario.

The collapse comes and a woman and her 10 year old daughter come onto your property asking for food and shelter.

What do you do?

It's very easy to say that when you've never been in an actual survival situation. Your welcome mat might be out, but it's unlikely you'd be able to help many people. If you're not prepared, there's nothing to give. If you're not vigilant, others will over-run you post haste.

.

No one else seems willing to answer you, so I will.

The answer is: It depends.

If it is a short-term crisis, like a weather related disaster, I would help her in any way I could.

If it were a more serious collapse, such that help was not coming in the foreseeable future, it would still depend.

I am a father. I have 2 sons and a daughter. One son is married and my daughter is engaged. I also have 2 brothers and a sister. One brother and my sister are married.

So I could, potentially, have a dozen or more mouths to feed on what I have stashed. If the crisis hit late enough that I was unable to enlarge my garden a great deal, we would be stretching it to feed my family. Any food I gave away would mean members of my family going hungry. If the stores were such that we could spare it, the woman and her daughter would be fed, but would stay with us. At least for a while.

If my stores were such that I was unable to feed my family until the following year's harvest, the woman and her daughter would be out of luck.

In the last situation, if I took them in, I would be guaranteeing the starvation of them both plus members of my family. The only way I could take in strangers would be if I stockpile more food now.

This thread did not start out criticizing people like you who have a stock pile of food in case "the world collapses".
It`s only now that people who are a bit more reasonable are posting in this thread.
Before that it was all about shooting people who knock on your door and feeding them to the guard dogs, enough fire power to do so, stock piling ammunition etc.
And some of these wanna be killers can`t wait to put it to use.
I`m just curious what kind of a "collapse" they envision which would make guns and ammo a priority.
The most likely scenario would be a gradual decay drawn out over many years, not a sudden collapse.
For a sudden "collapse" world wide you need an all out nuclear war or a world wide natural catastrophe, a so called "extinction event"
Anything else is just a local short term emergency event that people like you are preparing for.
And then there are emergencies that affect certain areas in the US which may last for quite a long time.
In neither of those would anybody get away with "shooting people who knock on their door" or find an assault rifle and cases of ammo useful.
Hopefully it`s possible to mention the drought that affects the SW United States without starting arguments about "man made global warming" here.
Dürre im Westen der USA: Stausee Lake Powell trocknet aus - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The Colorado river is down to a trickle, Lake Powell, Lake Mead etc are approaching levels that are so low that water has to be rationed in California. If that continues then you will have a full blown emergency for everybody in California, Nevada etc and whoever relies on Hoover dam power.
The only way to "prep" for a scenario like that which is a lot more likely than a sudden "world wide collapse" is to have the ways and means to get out of the SW US and live somewhere else.
And I don`t think that the preppers who figure they can use their ammo as a "currency" will be able to buy water with it from those who still have it.
Or have their dreams come true where they can start shooting people that are out of water.
The people who ran out of water won`t go knocking on your door to get it, they`ll go and stand in line at the trucks that will bring it in from somewhere else just like people do in other parts of the world where it`s up to the UN and NGO`s to truck in water and supplies in these kind of emergency scenarios.
And none of those people who have the water and the supplies trucked in barricade themselves behind "plywood with portholes" and signs threatening that they will shoot people who show up with their empty water jugs.
If that`s what people think should be done in the US in such emergencies that won`t look any better just because it was done in the US any more than it would if they would do that in any of the sites that the international community sets up as best as they can in any country that was hit by an earth quake, a tsunami, crop failures or what have you.
They don`t shoot people or tell them "my own family comes first"
Matter of fact many of them leave their families behind in a safer place and show up to help others who are in need.
None of that has anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative or religion, it`s done for humanitarian reasons.
The world would be even more disgusting if there were no people who show up to help after an earth quake, a hurricane etc but rather stay armed to their teeth in a bunker.
For the most part it`s those kind of bunker and gun mentality people who ridicule the ones who do go abroad to do what has to be done and it`s a good thing that these are just a few fringe lunatics, few in numbers, but quite prevalent in many of the threads at the USMB.
Some keep boasting that they would survive in a "survival of the fittest" scenario, without relying on what they take for granted right now.
All it would take is no more internet& cell phones or a tooth-ache and they would start crying uncle.
I had to yank out one of my teeth while I was stuck for over 6 months in the arctic and that`s not as easy as these "survival of the fittest" wannabees think it is.

 

[pismoe]

a government commission of American gov people study EMP . So there seems to be some concern about EMP attack on the USA . Little I know about an EMP attack is that everything that runs on electricity that is not shielded from attack will come to a grinding halt . Don't know much about EMP but like I say , gov takes it serious enough to be studying it . --- Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack ---

 

[pismoe]

an EMP attack would not be a local event and is designed to shut down the entire USA from what I understand . I'm not saying that its going to happen , just saying that USA gov takes EMP seriously enough to be studying it .

 

[pismoe]

and why is FEMA funded , seems to me that FEMA is taxpayer funded because government wants to be PREPARED for emergency / catastrophe no matter if its local or nationwide .

 

[candycorn]

Candycorn, you say you have a go-bag with the necessary food & water to survive for 72 hours.

Suppose there is a crisis, and you see 2 families with no preparations. Do you share your provisions with them? Split your go-bag 8 or 9 ways?

Yup.

Without question. Share; not give away all. Then again...I have faith in the structure. The 72 hour go bag is a req for my job.

Faith in the system is fine. But the basic premise of the scenarios we are discussing is that the system is gone.

If you could not stay with the families, would you give them the go-bag and go on to where your work required you to be?

Not really but if the "system" is gone, the bag becomes less important than ever. Again, the 72 hour go bag required for work allows the authorities not to have to worry about our hospital from the standpoint of sustaining the first responders. In other words, our doctors, nurses, administrators, air wing, etc... could be totally self-sustaining for a maximum of 72 hours.

If there is no system steering patients or the worried well to our facilities...there is no need to go to work.

I'd probably take the savings and drive to one of the coasts.

 

[M14 Shooter]

an EMP attack would not be a local event and is designed to shut down the entire USA from what I understand . I'm not saying that its going to happen , just saying that USA gov takes EMP seriously enough to be studying it .

Fotunate that some of us have vehicles that will still operate after such an attack and the fuel reserves to do so.

 

[candycorn]

and why do some people know about ww1 , ww2 and the civil war that you mention while others don't know about them and who's fault is that Candy . The answer is probably that its the public schools fault but public schools and reading newspapers in the late 50s taught me about these historical events when I went to school . They also taught me about the civil war . Why did I as a 10 year old know about the Nazis , concentration camps , Nuremberg trials , Hiroshima , Nagasaki , civil war and other events but now the excuse is that people don't remember these events so they see no reason to prepare .

Regardless of "knowing about them", they were brought up to highlight what happens when there are real shortages in basic supplies such as cloth, food, bread, flour, etc.

I'm sure everyone knows about them.
I'm equally sure few if any know about what it means to have zero access since we haven't had that scenario, wide-spread, since the 40's. So, therefore, it's pretty unrealistic to sit there and say, "You should have known" when there was no way to really experience it first hand.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This thread did not start out criticizing people like you who have a stock pile of food in case "the world collapses".
It`s only now that people who are a bit more reasonable are posting in this thread.
Before that it was all about shooting people who knock on your door and feeding them to the guard dogs, enough fire power to do so, stock piling ammunition etc.
And some of these wanna be killers can`t wait to put it to use.
I`m just curious what kind of a "collapse" they envision which would make guns and ammo a priority.

Any sort of collapse, sudden, local, regional. national.
In any such situation, there is a need for the capacity to effectively project lethal force.

The most likely scenario would be a gradual decay drawn out over many years, not a sudden collapse.

Maybe. Then again, there are a lot of natural and not natural ways a sudden collapse might manifest itself.

For a sudden "collapse" world wide you need an all out nuclear war or a world wide natural catastrophe, a so called "extinction event"

Who said anything about world-wide?

Anything else is just a local short term emergency event that people like you are preparing for.
And then there are emergencies that affect certain areas in the US which may last for quite a long time.

Even a short-term small-scale emergency can generate an increased need to effectively project lethal force.

In neither of those would anybody get away with "shooting people who knock on their door" or find an assault rifle and cases of ammo useful.

Right... because, you know, there are never looters or whatnot that prowl about during small-scale an/dor short term disasters.

And I don`t think that the preppers who figure they can use their ammo as a "currency" will be able to buy water with it from those who still have it.

Well... if the people with the water aren't willint to sell, then the people with the guns and ammo can take it.
Unless, ofc ourse, the people with the water also have an effective means of projecting deadly force.

Or have their dreams come true where they can start shooting people that are out of water.
The people who ran out of water won`t go knocking on your door to get it, they`ll go and stand in line at the trucks that will bring it in from somewhere else just like people do in other parts of the world where it`s up to the UN and NGO`s to truck in water and supplies in these kind of emergency scenarios.

If they exist, in which case there's no need for conflict over water.

And none of those people who have the water and the supplies trucked in barricade themselves behind "plywood with portholes" and signs threatening that they will shoot people who show up with their empty water jugs.

You sure? Why do you assume people with a limited supply of a scare commodity necessary for sustaiing human life will share?

 

[pismoe]

yep M14 , my pickup as an 89 may be good . Big fuel storage is a problem for me though !!

 

[Erand7899]

Fun iis the operative word. The world is not going to collapse. But if you are a real prepper (thank you for using the correct term), no one is going to come knocking at my door because they won't have any idea you are one.

Therein lies the flaw in prepping, if collapse happens (I don't think it will) it will not be a lone liberal knocking at your door it will be an armed gang and they will have what you have. Better to be mobile than tied to a stockpile.

It almost seems like the Gus Fring gambit of having small stockpiles of material stashed in several places through-out the countryside is preferable to having a "goldmine" in your basement.

A serious prepper, with common sense, would never advertize that he/she is a prepper. There would be no lights showing at night, and the SUV would be hidden away. The house or bunker would be prepared for defense, and a plan 'B' would exist in case plan"A" failed.

A serious prepper would hunker down with his family, and possibly friends, for days and possibly weeks. Staying invisable until the bulk of the unfed masses have ceased to exist. Hunger, disease, and exposure to the elements would be taking a toll on the weak and unprepared.

 

[polarbear]

an EMP attack would not be a local event and is designed to shut down the entire USA from what I understand . I'm not saying that its going to happen , just saying that USA gov takes EMP seriously enough to be studying it .

The kind of "EMP attack" they,... and now you are talking about, will happen only when there is an all out nuclear war.
The first missiles will be high altitude air bursts to knock out satellites as well as causing EMP`s and the rest of them targeting the population centers will already be on their way.
Much more likely is that a solar storm like the one that just missed us.
And if there is another one that is powerful enough to do knock out the US power grid then it`s not assault rifles and case loads of ammo that you need.
Neither one can protect you from the missiles that follow a nuclear strike EMP or a solar storm.
A solar storm will not knock out the power grid the way it`s been revamped after the "great blackout" for more than just a couple of hours.
Yeah in a big city like NYC or LA that could be a problem
If that happens do you feel threatened enough by people who did not prepare to hide in a bunker and start shooting?
I would think these people who would be looters would pick a much juicier target like a Hospital which would be a lot less risky and they would have much more than what you could possibly have stored.
Oh my God, somebody better tell the doctors & nurses that they should buy assault rifles and lots of ammo before they get caught with their pants down