When one says change has come to America what does that mean exactly?

[ihopehefails]

I've often wondered what this expression means or even if it makes any real sense because I have always thought the motivation to change always eminates from the individual by the choices they make in their own lives such as a drunk getting off of booze or someone getting a better job. The only changes I have ever seen that ever occurs in society is when individuals make the choice to change for themselves so how can any politician claim to have power to bring change to our lives when that power resides within our own body.

The question I am asking is what kind of government has the power to make choices for individuals about the changes they make in their own life that would determine what kind of citizen they will be? Either government has the power to make people "change" or that power reside in the individual him/herself. It can not reside in both or there will always be a conflict between citizen in government over what kind of citizen that citizen wants to be and what the government wants that citizen to be. In a free society that power resides in the citizen and never within the government.

 

[chanel]

Well said but I think the change the president envisions is a "radical transformation" of this country into a democratic socialist state. He was elected promising that.but hardly anyone listened or understood what he meant Except for his hard core lefty friends and the McCain voters.

Change is being made for us and.we will be told this is what the people voted for. Not me.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Put out the alert: ihef and chanel have begun the bozo party. Bring fireworks!

 

[chanel]

What kind of radical transformation are you hoping for? What does hopeychangy mean to Jake? Redistribution of wealth? Govt run healthcare? International taxes for climate change? Be specific. Bozo party is missing the clowns

 

[Big Black Dog]

Take a look at every other President's picture we have ever had. Now take a look at Obama's picture. I'd say change has come to America. He has shorter hair.

 

[Smartt33]

I've often wondered what this expression means or even if it makes any real sense because I have always thought the motivation to change always eminates from the individual by the choices they make in their own lives such as a drunk getting off of booze or someone getting a better job. The only changes I have ever seen that ever occurs in society is when individuals make the choice to change for themselves so how can any politician claim to have power to bring change to our lives when that power resides within our own body.

The question I am asking is what kind of government has the power to make choices for individuals about the changes they make in their own life that would determine what kind of citizen they will be? Either government has the power to make people "change" or that power reside in the individual him/herself. It can not reside in both or there will always be a conflict between citizen in government over what kind of citizen that citizen wants to be and what the government wants that citizen to be. In a free society that power resides in the citizen and never within the government.

I suppose the world has been in a mess for a long time. This poem is really good, and I think it fits here.



I Wanted To Change The World
Submitted by: Cage
Author: Unknown Monk 1100 A.D.
When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.

 

[Thinman]

The choice always belongs to the individual, as long as, he doesn't infringe on others rights and stays within the law. The Obama administration has already begun to take those choices from us, as example, mandated health care.

 

[Thinman]

[/quote]I Wanted To Change The World
Submitted by: Cage
Author: Unknown Monk 1100 A.D.
When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.[/quote]

Excellent!!

Thanks.

 

[VaYank5150]

I Wanted To Change The World
Submitted by: Cage
Author: Unknown Monk 1100 A.D.
When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.[/quote]

Excellent!!

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Wow. Good one.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I think the point is that our government can - and always has - reflected the change that a majority of individuals want to make.
We changed from a colony to a nation because individuals decided that's the change they wanted.
We changed from a slave-owing nation to a free nation because that's the change a majority of individuals wanted to make.
We changed from a victim nation (Pearl Harbor) to a victorious nation because people wanted to make the individual sacrifices necessary to make that change.
We changed from a segregated nation to a nation of equality for all because individuals wanted to see it happen.

Our government is an expression of the will of individual people. It is not an outside agent - it is a reflection of the individual's will. If it is not - we elect a new government.

That's the beauty of representative democracy.

I know it is very popular to claim otherwise - especially when one finds himself/herself in the minority. It becomes all too convenient to pretend that your opinion really is the majority opinion but "the government" is thwarting that will of the majority.
But the truth is just that the majority of individuals disagree with you and they are changing the government to reflect the will of the majority. If you don't like it - get your votes together and change it. If you don't have the votes to change it - you lose. Your priorities will not be reflected by the government - it's not the government's fault.

 

[kwc57]

It is basically the same message as "Morning in America".

 

[Smartt33]

I think the point is that our government can - and always has - reflected the change that a majority of individuals want to make.
We changed from a colony to a nation because individuals decided that's the change they wanted.
We changed from a slave-owing nation to a free nation because that's the change a majority of individuals wanted to make.
We changed from a victim nation (Pearl Harbor) to a victorious nation because people wanted to make the individual sacrifices necessary to make that change.
We changed from a segregated nation to a nation of equality for all because individuals wanted to see it happen.

Our government is an expression of the will of individual people. It is not an outside agent - it is a reflection of the individual's will. If it is not - we elect a new government.

That's the beauty of representative democracy.

I know it is very popular to claim otherwise - especially when one finds himself/herself in the minority. It becomes all too convenient to pretend that your opinion really is the majority opinion but "the government" is thwarting that will of the majority.
But the truth is just that the majority of individuals disagree with you and they are changing the government to reflect the will of the majority. If you don't like it - get your votes together and change it. If you don't have the votes to change it - you lose. Your priorities will not be reflected by the government - it's not the government's fault.

There are many things that the government is doing, sending money for, and creating from within their ranks (even if it is through legal means) that the people, as a majority, just don't want. One is that the government is paying for abortiond, and the majority of the American people are against that. Government wins, but it is wrong. All the garbage about Christian prayer, and symbols, etc is being brought up by ONE INDIVIDUAL in most cases, and one wins over the rest of the company, organization, or public. The hate crimes laws are not something that will benefit America, and I am not positive, but I don['t think that is something that would win if put to vote, but there will be no vote.

The people are NOT being represented. That is the bottom line.

 

[Elutherian]

It don't mean a damn thing.

We're still at war, we still ain't got habeus corpus back, and the last I checked... we're still bailing out the billionaires on Wall-Street... cause God knows they'd probably have a damn aneurism if they can't drive their lamborghinis. The rest of us will just have to sacrafice for the good of the rich... third week straight of Spaghetti-O's? No use complaining... you done voted the son of a bitch in.

Real change is going to take voting for somebody who ain't bought off by Goldman Sachs.

 

[alan1]

Pretty much every presidential candidate (opposing the party in current power) campaigns on change for his first election.

 

[saveliberty]

I figured it meant you had money before Obama and now you just have change. Did I miss something?

 

[ihopehefails]

I think the point is that our government can - and always has - reflected the change that a majority of individuals want to make.
We changed from a colony to a nation because individuals decided that's the change they wanted.
We changed from a slave-owing nation to a free nation because that's the change a majority of individuals wanted to make.
We changed from a victim nation (Pearl Harbor) to a victorious nation because people wanted to make the individual sacrifices necessary to make that change.
We changed from a segregated nation to a nation of equality for all because individuals wanted to see it happen.

Our government is an expression of the will of individual people. It is not an outside agent - it is a reflection of the individual's will. If it is not - we elect a new government.

That's the beauty of representative democracy.

I know it is very popular to claim otherwise - especially when one finds himself/herself in the minority. It becomes all too convenient to pretend that your opinion really is the majority opinion but "the government" is thwarting that will of the majority.
But the truth is just that the majority of individuals disagree with you and they are changing the government to reflect the will of the majority. If you don't like it - get your votes together and change it. If you don't have the votes to change it - you lose. Your priorities will not be reflected by the government - it's not the government's fault.

I actually think the expression of the will of the individual is reflected in their own life such as the kind of work they do or who they marry etc etc and I don't see how government has anything to do with this process. Do we need laws to create someone's carreer* or to ensure that they get married or is that a power the individual has without the government?

Government has a role but that is not to institute individual will over our own lives because to do so will violate the individual will of someone else in their own lives since 300 million individuals will make decisions that will take them in opposite directions of their fellow citizens so its impossible to create a single law that reflects a single will of the people since most people have unique wills of their own.

Thats just my opinion though.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, change would be the same number of American families going broke from medical bills as go broke in Japan, England, Canada, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, France, or Switzerland.

Change would be having America regarded as a just nation again. Oops, that has already happened, hasn't it.

Change would be to accept real science and adapt strategies to deal with the danger that the scientists have shown us.

Change would be to talk to other nations, not just dictate to them. Oops, that has already happened, hasn't it.

Change would be to reward our servicemen for their service with something like the GI Bill. Oh my, that has already happened.

Change would be to lend money directly to our college students, rather than giving a significant proportion of that money to the banks.

Now you don't suppose that anyone, here or abroad, would recognize some of the changes that have already taken place and reward our President with something nice in recognition?

 

[alan1]

Well, change would be the same number of American families going broke from medical bills as go broke in Japan, England, Canada, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, France, or Switzerland.

Change would be having America regarded as a just nation again. Oops, that has already happened, hasn't it.

Change would be to accept real science and adapt strategies to deal with the danger that the scientists have shown us.

Change would be to talk to other nations, not just dictate to them. Oops, that has already happened, hasn't it.

Change would be to reward our servicemen for their service with something like the GI Bill. Oh my, that has already happened.

Change would be to lend money directly to our college students, rather than giving a significant proportion of that money to the banks.

Now you don't suppose that anyone, here or abroad, would recognize some of the changes that have already taken place and reward our President with something nice in recognition?

He did all that in 10 days?
I must have been on vacation or something.