When it hits the fan. A survival discussion.

[koshergrl]

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Yep..city folks would be the first to die. Not enough resources and to many people. Couple that with disease and dysentery from drinking contaminated water and you'd have hell on earth in short order.
The suburbs would be marginally better with swimming pools for water and the room to grow a garden but the starving city folks would become a problem real fast.
Moving out to the boonies would be incredibly dangerous with the locals protecting their property but they would eventually be over run by the masses.
You'd really need a large group for protection but then you'd have the problem of feeding that many people.
The best bet IMHO would be to hole up somewhere until after the first die off but of course you'd have to be prepared for at least six months for that to happen.

Naw, country folks can hold their own against the masses, don't worry.

 

[koshergrl]

I think a better means of gauging how severe a disaster, event or change(s) by design could affect life/society as we know it is how fast and effectively the standing government could enforce the law. If it was obvious that police and army infrastructure remained largely intact, and the means they'd usually require to react were visible then it would give opportunists pause for thought. However, if it was clear that the law enforcement was powerless - or they abandoned their posts because the government couldn't pay them - then things would be a lot more serious.

Additionally, having read a lot of material on the whole What If and SHTF situations (it's genuinely interesting stuff), I've noticed that a lot of it comes from either: anarchists, religious nutjobs and people who wish to capitalise on the ensuing choas/power vacuum. Rarely is there any discussion on how we could start working on getting things back to normal from the outset.

If you can't survive for a month without water, shelter, food, power or medical attention, it's not going to matter, you'll be dead.

Yeah, but a complete financial collapse won't poison the water or significantly reduce or spoil wildlife stocks that could sustain us like a natural disaster or nuclear strike could.

You certainly hope so. You realize the chances of a "complete financial collapse" is a lot less likely than a huge earthquake or solar flare or whatever, right?

Solar flare would be exceptionally bad. A broken microwave oven is a perfect Faraday cage, prebuilt, that everyone that has one is trying to get rid of for free...fwiw. Put one in your shed with an outdated (but operational) laptop or tablet and charger, solar calculator, spare susceptible car parts etc.

Ha, the thing is..I live just fine without any of those things.

 

[rightwinger]

In numerous threads in this firearms forum, we have talked about survival weapons. I thought I'd start a thread about survival in real terms.

First of all, I think we need to define the situation, in terms of what we are facing. I'll just use 3 arbitrary terms to define the 3 basic situations that seem most likely.

Level 1: Short term disaster - This is what I think of as a widespread post-Katrina type situation. Complete disaster, but recovery measured in months.

Level 2: Medium term disaster - This is a societal collapse but without the destruction of some of the infrastructure. Far worse than a Level 1, but it is still about surviving until things get put back together. An invasion, revolution or even a plague could cause this. Recovery in a couple of years.

Level 3: TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) - This could be a nuclear war, a major solar storm, or just some sort of apocalypse. This type event will see no recovery for at least a couple of generations.

Anyone have plans or plans for plans? Or ideas?

I have been stocking up on cheap beer

When the Zombie Apocolypse comes, it will be worth its weight in gold

You can't drink gold

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

Once people started shooting and eating em they would.
One of the better survival tools for food would be a shitload of rat traps.
Good for squirrels and rats.
And of course the old steel jaw traps and fish traps.
That frees you up to take care of other pressing needs since you're not spending all your time hunting.

 

[pismoe]

Ithaca gun --- The Ithaca Model 37 Defense ---

 

[Asclepias]

I think a better means of gauging how severe a disaster, event or change(s) by design could affect life/society as we know it is how fast and effectively the standing government could enforce the law. If it was obvious that police and army infrastructure remained largely intact, and the means they'd usually require to react were visible then it would give opportunists pause for thought. However, if it was clear that the law enforcement was powerless - or they abandoned their posts because the government couldn't pay them - then things would be a lot more serious.

Additionally, having read a lot of material on the whole What If and SHTF situations (it's genuinely interesting stuff), I've noticed that a lot of it comes from either: anarchists, religious nutjobs and people who wish to capitalise on the ensuing choas/power vacuum. Rarely is there any discussion on how we could start working on getting things back to normal from the outset.

If you can't survive for a month without water, shelter, food, power or medical attention, it's not going to matter, you'll be dead.

Yeah, but a complete financial collapse won't poison the water or significantly reduce or spoil wildlife stocks that could sustain us like a natural disaster or nuclear strike could.

You certainly hope so. You realize the chances of a "complete financial collapse" is a lot less likely than a huge earthquake or solar flare or whatever, right?

Solar flare would be exceptionally bad. A broken microwave oven is a perfect Faraday cage, prebuilt, that everyone that has one is trying to get rid of for free...fwiw. Put one in your shed with an outdated (but operational) laptop or tablet and charger, solar calculator, spare susceptible car parts etc.

Microwaves are not the best Faraday cages. I doubt it would completely protect your devices. I would test first by placing a call on your cell phone then putting it in the microwave to see if the signal cuts off when you close the door. I believe the door of a lot of microwaves is a weak point.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Yep..city folks would be the first to die. Not enough resources and to many people. Couple that with disease and dysentery from drinking contaminated water and you'd have hell on earth in short order.
The suburbs would be marginally better with swimming pools for water and the room to grow a garden but the starving city folks would become a problem real fast.
Moving out to the boonies would be incredibly dangerous with the locals protecting their property but they would eventually be over run by the masses.
You'd really need a large group for protection but then you'd have the problem of feeding that many people.
The best bet IMHO would be to hole up somewhere until after the first die off but of course you'd have to be prepared for at least six months for that to happen.

Naw, country folks can hold their own against the masses, don't worry.

I dont think they would. It would be a simple matter of surrounding the farm house and waiting em out or burning em out.
The only way to survive the initial die off would be to stay hidden.
But again that would take preparation before hand.

 

[Missourian]

In numerous threads in this firearms forum, we have talked about survival weapons. I thought I'd start a thread about survival in real terms.

First of all, I think we need to define the situation, in terms of what we are facing. I'll just use 3 arbitrary terms to define the 3 basic situations that seem most likely.

Level 1: Short term disaster - This is what I think of as a widespread post-Katrina type situation. Complete disaster, but recovery measured in months.

Level 2: Medium term disaster - This is a societal collapse but without the destruction of some of the infrastructure. Far worse than a Level 1, but it is still about surviving until things get put back together. An invasion, revolution or even a plague could cause this. Recovery in a couple of years.

Level 3: TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) - This could be a nuclear war, a major solar storm, or just some sort of apocalypse. This type event will see no recovery for at least a couple of generations.

Anyone have plans or plans for plans? Or ideas?

I have been stocking up on cheap beer

When the Zombie Apocolypse comes, it will be worth its weight in gold

You can't drink gold

After reading your posts I feel compelled to warn you, I've calculated that at your present rate of consumption, you will have -276 cases on Z-day.

 

[koshergrl]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

Once people started shooting and eating em they would.
One of the better survival tools for food would be a shitload of rat traps.
Good for squirrels and rats.
And of course the old steel jaw traps and fish traps.
That frees you up to take care of other pressing needs since you're not spending all your time hunting.

I am not eating squirrel or rat. Screw that.

I'll eat venison, fish, elk. Cow if I can find it. And I can find it, lol.

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Yep..city folks would be the first to die. Not enough resources and to many people. Couple that with disease and dysentery from drinking contaminated water and you'd have hell on earth in short order.
The suburbs would be marginally better with swimming pools for water and the room to grow a garden but the starving city folks would become a problem real fast.
Moving out to the boonies would be incredibly dangerous with the locals protecting their property but they would eventually be over run by the masses.
You'd really need a large group for protection but then you'd have the problem of feeding that many people.
The best bet IMHO would be to hole up somewhere until after the first die off but of course you'd have to be prepared for at least six months for that to happen.

Naw, country folks can hold their own against the masses, don't worry.

I dont think they would. It would be a simple matter of surrounding the farm house and waiting em out or burning em out.
The only way to survive the initial die off would be to stay hidden.
But again that would take preparation before hand.

Yeah you don't live in the country, do you?

 

[Missourian]

I think a better means of gauging how severe a disaster, event or change(s) by design could affect life/society as we know it is how fast and effectively the standing government could enforce the law. If it was obvious that police and army infrastructure remained largely intact, and the means they'd usually require to react were visible then it would give opportunists pause for thought. However, if it was clear that the law enforcement was powerless - or they abandoned their posts because the government couldn't pay them - then things would be a lot more serious.

Additionally, having read a lot of material on the whole What If and SHTF situations (it's genuinely interesting stuff), I've noticed that a lot of it comes from either: anarchists, religious nutjobs and people who wish to capitalise on the ensuing choas/power vacuum. Rarely is there any discussion on how we could start working on getting things back to normal from the outset.

If you can't survive for a month without water, shelter, food, power or medical attention, it's not going to matter, you'll be dead.

Yeah, but a complete financial collapse won't poison the water or significantly reduce or spoil wildlife stocks that could sustain us like a natural disaster or nuclear strike could.

You certainly hope so. You realize the chances of a "complete financial collapse" is a lot less likely than a huge earthquake or solar flare or whatever, right?

Solar flare would be exceptionally bad. A broken microwave oven is a perfect Faraday cage, prebuilt, that everyone that has one is trying to get rid of for free...fwiw. Put one in your shed with an outdated (but operational) laptop or tablet and charger, solar calculator, spare susceptible car parts etc.

Microwaves are not the best Faraday cages. I doubt it would completely protect your devices. I would test first by placing a call on your cell phone then putting it in the microwave to see if the signal cuts off when you close the door. I believe the door of a lot of microwaves is a weak point.

Good idea...or a battery power radio. Going to give that a try. Better to see for yourself than trust what you read.

 

[HenryBHough]

Any kind of preparation is madness.

The world has too many people; ask any liberal worshiper at The Algore First Universal Church of Global Warming. Preparation of any kind enhances one's chances of survival; a disservice to all those who had survived naturally and who will need all the resources to continue that survival.

 

[Missourian]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

Once people started shooting and eating em they would.
One of the better survival tools for food would be a shitload of rat traps.
Good for squirrels and rats.
And of course the old steel jaw traps and fish traps.
That frees you up to take care of other pressing needs since you're not spending all your time hunting.

I am not eating squirrel or rat. Screw that.

I'll eat venison, fish, elk. Cow if I can find it. And I can find it, lol.

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Yep..city folks would be the first to die. Not enough resources and to many people. Couple that with disease and dysentery from drinking contaminated water and you'd have hell on earth in short order.
The suburbs would be marginally better with swimming pools for water and the room to grow a garden but the starving city folks would become a problem real fast.
Moving out to the boonies would be incredibly dangerous with the locals protecting their property but they would eventually be over run by the masses.
You'd really need a large group for protection but then you'd have the problem of feeding that many people.
The best bet IMHO would be to hole up somewhere until after the first die off but of course you'd have to be prepared for at least six months for that to happen.

Naw, country folks can hold their own against the masses, don't worry.

I dont think they would. It would be a simple matter of surrounding the farm house and waiting em out or burning em out.
The only way to survive the initial die off would be to stay hidden.
But again that would take preparation before hand.

Yeah you don't live in the country, do you?

Rat I don't know, but you are so missing out not eating squirrel meat. Squirrel season ended Feb 15th, and my freezer is already almost squirrel bare. Had to make room for goose anyway, but I'll sure miss it until May.

 

[koshergrl]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

Once people started shooting and eating em they would.
One of the better survival tools for food would be a shitload of rat traps.
Good for squirrels and rats.
And of course the old steel jaw traps and fish traps.
That frees you up to take care of other pressing needs since you're not spending all your time hunting.

I am not eating squirrel or rat. Screw that.

I'll eat venison, fish, elk. Cow if I can find it. And I can find it, lol.

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Yep..city folks would be the first to die. Not enough resources and to many people. Couple that with disease and dysentery from drinking contaminated water and you'd have hell on earth in short order.
The suburbs would be marginally better with swimming pools for water and the room to grow a garden but the starving city folks would become a problem real fast.
Moving out to the boonies would be incredibly dangerous with the locals protecting their property but they would eventually be over run by the masses.
You'd really need a large group for protection but then you'd have the problem of feeding that many people.
The best bet IMHO would be to hole up somewhere until after the first die off but of course you'd have to be prepared for at least six months for that to happen.

Naw, country folks can hold their own against the masses, don't worry.

I dont think they would. It would be a simple matter of surrounding the farm house and waiting em out or burning em out.
The only way to survive the initial die off would be to stay hidden.
But again that would take preparation before hand.

Yeah you don't live in the country, do you?

Rat I don't know, but you are so missing out not eating squirrel meat. Squirrel season ended Feb 15th, and my freezer is already almost squirrel bare. Had to make room for goose anyway, but I'll sure miss it until May.

I could probably handle squirrel. We don't have big ones here. We have lots of other stuff though..including lots and lots of waterfowl.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

Once people started shooting and eating em they would.
One of the better survival tools for food would be a shitload of rat traps.
Good for squirrels and rats.
And of course the old steel jaw traps and fish traps.
That frees you up to take care of other pressing needs since you're not spending all your time hunting.

I am not eating squirrel or rat. Screw that.

I'll eat venison, fish, elk. Cow if I can find it. And I can find it, lol.

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Yep..city folks would be the first to die. Not enough resources and to many people. Couple that with disease and dysentery from drinking contaminated water and you'd have hell on earth in short order.
The suburbs would be marginally better with swimming pools for water and the room to grow a garden but the starving city folks would become a problem real fast.
Moving out to the boonies would be incredibly dangerous with the locals protecting their property but they would eventually be over run by the masses.
You'd really need a large group for protection but then you'd have the problem of feeding that many people.
The best bet IMHO would be to hole up somewhere until after the first die off but of course you'd have to be prepared for at least six months for that to happen.

Naw, country folks can hold their own against the masses, don't worry.

I dont think they would. It would be a simple matter of surrounding the farm house and waiting em out or burning em out.
The only way to survive the initial die off would be to stay hidden.
But again that would take preparation before hand.

Yeah you don't live in the country, do you?

I lived in a county that only had 2600 people and the nearest grocery store was fifty miles away. So yeah I lived way out in the boonies.
If it was a solar flare or an EMP you would have a better chance since most vehicles wouldnt run and the majority would die off before they could get to you.

And like I said,if they cant leave the house without getting shot eventually they'd starve or die of thirst while the siege layers would be free to hunt,trap and fish.
You'd really need to stay hidden. Which is why you'd be better off with the rat traps and the like. Firing weapons is a dead giveaway.

 

[eots]

I'm only prepared for Level 1. Anything after that would be considered a fluid situation which I would address as needed.

In numerous threads in this firearms forum, we have talked about survival weapons. I thought I'd start a thread about survival in real terms.

First of all, I think we need to define the situation, in terms of what we are facing. I'll just use 3 arbitrary terms to define the 3 basic situations that seem most likely.

Level 1: Short term disaster - This is what I think of as a widespread post-Katrina type situation. Complete disaster, but recovery measured in months.

Level 2: Medium term disaster - This is a societal collapse but without the destruction of some of the infrastructure. Far worse than a Level 1, but it is still about surviving until things get put back together. An invasion, revolution or even a plague could cause this. Recovery in a couple of years.

Level 3: TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) - This could be a nuclear war, a major solar storm, or just some sort of apocalypse. This type event will see no recovery for at least a couple of generations.

Anyone have plans or plans for plans? Or ideas?

Duck and cover

 

[pismoe]

death of one sort or another is just a gas tank of fuel away 'herewego' . Or a breakdown . I can imagine the mayhem on the freeways from the hordes thinking that they will escape L.A. or any bigcity

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

death of one sort or another is just a gas tank of fuel away 'herewego' . Or a breakdown . I can imagine the mayhem on the freeways from the hordes thinking that they will escape L.A. or any bigcity

Yep..When hurricane Rita hit Houston every freeway out of town was gridlocked for days with many having to ride out the storm in their cars....that would be a cake walk compared to a SHTF situation. Thats why I believe holing up until the first die off is over would be your best bet if possible. This was the biggest evacuation in US history.

 

[Treeshepherd]

In numerous threads in this firearms forum, we have talked about survival weapons. I thought I'd start a thread about survival in real terms.

First of all, I think we need to define the situation, in terms of what we are facing. I'll just use 3 arbitrary terms to define the 3 basic situations that seem most likely.

Level 1: Short term disaster - This is what I think of as a widespread post-Katrina type situation. Complete disaster, but recovery measured in months.

Level 2: Medium term disaster - This is a societal collapse but without the destruction of some of the infrastructure. Far worse than a Level 1, but it is still about surviving until things get put back together. An invasion, revolution or even a plague could cause this. Recovery in a couple of years.

Level 3: TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) - This could be a nuclear war, a major solar storm, or just some sort of apocalypse. This type event will see no recovery for at least a couple of generations.

Anyone have plans or plans for plans? Or ideas?

There are two basic schools of Preppers, with inevitable overlap.

The first is the compound strategy. Build a defensible compound with lots of supplies, weapons and ammo.

The second one is the survivalist. I fit neatly into that category. I don't even own a gun. I have a wrist rocket style slingshot. Pick up ammo as you go. Stay in good physical condition. Know your territory; where to find water, where to fish, where to trap quail, where all the fruit trees are, what wild plants are edible; etc.. I also like to work on training myself to walk in the dark.

Last September I walked over 400 miles from Santa Cruz County to Humboldt County. I slept in a hammock for 23 straight nights. Used a flashlight probably twice the whole time. Guerrilla camped. It was more of a spiritual pilgrimage than anything, but good training in case the human race needs an insurance policy someday.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

In numerous threads in this firearms forum, we have talked about survival weapons. I thought I'd start a thread about survival in real terms.

First of all, I think we need to define the situation, in terms of what we are facing. I'll just use 3 arbitrary terms to define the 3 basic situations that seem most likely.

Level 1: Short term disaster - This is what I think of as a widespread post-Katrina type situation. Complete disaster, but recovery measured in months.

Level 2: Medium term disaster - This is a societal collapse but without the destruction of some of the infrastructure. Far worse than a Level 1, but it is still about surviving until things get put back together. An invasion, revolution or even a plague could cause this. Recovery in a couple of years.

Level 3: TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) - This could be a nuclear war, a major solar storm, or just some sort of apocalypse. This type event will see no recovery for at least a couple of generations.

Anyone have plans or plans for plans? Or ideas?

There are two basic schools of Preppers, with inevitable overlap.

The first is the compound strategy. Build a defensible compound with lots of supplies, weapons and ammo.

The second one is the survivalist. I fit neatly into that category. I don't even own a gun. I have a wrist rocket style slingshot. Pick up ammo as you go. Stay in good physical condition. Know your territory; where to find water, where to fish, where to trap quail, where all the fruit trees are, what wild plants are edible; etc.. I also like to work on training myself to walk in the dark.

Last September I walked over 400 miles from Santa Cruz County to Humboldt County. I slept in a hammock for 23 straight nights. Used a flashlight probably twice the whole time. Guerrilla camped. It was more of a spiritual pilgrimage than anything, but good training in case the human race needs an insurance policy someday.

You'd still need a firearm for protection.
So what kind of hammock do you have? I love my Warbonnet blackbird with the super fly. The worst thing about a hammock is you freeze your balls off without proper insulation,but they are cooler in the summer than a tent.

 

[Treeshepherd]

You'd still need a firearm for protection.
So what kind of hammock do you have? I love my Warbonnet blackbird with the super fly. The worst thing about a hammock is you freeze your balls off without proper insulation,but they are cooler in the summer than a tent.

My Odyssey US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I've got a single Eagles Nest Outfitters backpacking hammock. It scrunches down to the size of a burrito supreme. On my trip, my Thermarest got slashed while I was climbing over a barbed wire fence. But, I found that the Thermarest fit better inside my hammock when it was deflated. I wore a knit cap and used my jacket for a pillow. Anyway, it doesn't get very cold in Northern California.


Guns make noise, are heavy, ammo is heavy, and guns get wet. If I bought a gun it would be a simple, collapsible survival rifle. A wrist rocket is silent and will put a dent in the skull of someone on your tail.