When it hits the fan. A survival discussion.

[WinterBorn]

Living off the land sounds like a great plan. Until you are starving and the land is being stripped by 200 others who had the same plan.

The problem with all these people who have a vague plan is that it won't work in reality.

My plan is not vague. I am well versed in what plants are edible, how to grow them, how to find them in the wild. I am also well versed on how to trap animals for food, their habits and how to preserve meat.. My grandfather taught me these things as they lived completely off the land for years..

If you have the skills you are going to have a leg up on most people.

How about medicinal herbs? Or food storage?

 

[koshergrl]

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Initially there will be the deer in the suburbs and will feed a few people for a week or two. But the deer are far more adaptable than the majority of the people. They'll be gone (or far harder to hunt) almost immediately.

Having recipes for rat would be a good idea.

And dog.

Seriously, I doubt the ability of most city folk to last very long. There's not just their deplorable lack of common sense and ability...they do incredibly stupid things. Like build fires with treated wood, the smoke of which can be absolutely fatal, and definitely will shorten your life if you're cooking over it. They don't know the basics of food storage, handling, they don't even fully grasp the nature of the importance of water and how to obtain and manage it.

 

[koshergrl]

Living off the land sounds like a great plan. Until you are starving and the land is being stripped by 200 others who had the same plan.

The problem with all these people who have a vague plan is that it won't work in reality.

My plan is not vague. I am well versed in what plants are edible, how to grow them, how to find them in the wild. I am also well versed on how to trap animals for food, their habits and how to preserve meat.. My grandfather taught me these things as they lived completely off the land for years..

If you have the skills you are going to have a leg up on most people.

How about medicinal herbs? Or food storage?

Schlep doesn't know how to do any of those things. When he says "well versed" he means he has watched some survival shows.

 

[pismoe]

good discussion , when talking 'teotowaki' [level 3] I think that's a simple air burst of a nuke over the USA . Whats it called as I forget but its been in the news these last 10 years or so . But that blast is said to be able to bring the USA and everything to a halt . Military and police 'Might' be disabled because even if their transports are shielded they won't be able to get gas at pumps other than police and military pumps that are shielded . Level 3 would really be difficult especially in where roads and freeways would be clogged as peoples cars and trucks run out of gas , flat tires , breakdowns during an imagined mass exodus from big cities . And then they'd just run outa gas , breakdown on the freeways . -------- Yep , electro magnetic pulse !!

 

[Asclepias]

Living off the land sounds like a great plan. Until you are starving and the land is being stripped by 200 others who had the same plan.

The problem with all these people who have a vague plan is that it won't work in reality.

My plan is not vague. I am well versed in what plants are edible, how to grow them, how to find them in the wild. I am also well versed on how to trap animals for food, their habits and how to preserve meat.. My grandfather taught me these things as they lived completely off the land for years..

If you have the skills you are going to have a leg up on most people.

How about medicinal herbs? Or food storage?

There are a lot of medicinal herbs growing wild or as ornamental plants in my locale. Most are diuretics but they do the job. Fortunately no one in my family needs any type of medication. Food storage is an issue where I live so it will have to be lots of jerky in the event there is no refrigeration or electricity.

 

[WinterBorn]

Living off the land sounds like a great plan. Until you are starving and the land is being stripped by 200 others who had the same plan.

The problem with all these people who have a vague plan is that it won't work in reality.

My plan is not vague. I am well versed in what plants are edible, how to grow them, how to find them in the wild. I am also well versed on how to trap animals for food, their habits and how to preserve meat.. My grandfather taught me these things as they lived completely off the land for years..

If you have the skills you are going to have a leg up on most people.

How about medicinal herbs? Or food storage?

There are a lot of medicinal herbs growing wild or as ornamental plants in my locale. Most are diuretics but they do the job. Fortunately no one in my family needs any type of medication. Food storage is an issue where I live so it will have to be lots of jerky in the event there is no refrigeration or electricity.

Having some sort of means of fighting topical infections will increase the likelihood of survival. In a Level 3 situation, a cut can turn into gangrene pretty quickly. If you are alone, a broken leg is almost a death sentence.

 

[Asclepias]

good discussion , when talking 'teotowaki' [level 3] I think that's a simple air burst of a nuke over the USA . Whats it called as I forget but its been in the news these last 10 years or so . But that blast is said to be able to bring the USA and everything to a halt . Military and police 'Might' be disabled because even if their transports are shielded they won't be able to get gas at pumps other than police and military pumps that are shielded . Level 3 would really be difficult especially in where roads and freeways would be clogged as peoples cars and trucks run out of gas , flat tires , breakdowns during an imagined mass exodus from big cities . And then they'd just run outa gas , breakdown on the freeways . -------- Yep , electro magnetic pulse !!

There is no way I'm using the roads. Find a railroad track to navigate if necessary. I'm familiar with all the hiking trails in my area that actually go from city to city in the event I need to move. People turn back into animals very quickly.

 

[Asclepias]

Living off the land sounds like a great plan. Until you are starving and the land is being stripped by 200 others who had the same plan.

The problem with all these people who have a vague plan is that it won't work in reality.

My plan is not vague. I am well versed in what plants are edible, how to grow them, how to find them in the wild. I am also well versed on how to trap animals for food, their habits and how to preserve meat.. My grandfather taught me these things as they lived completely off the land for years..

If you have the skills you are going to have a leg up on most people.

How about medicinal herbs? Or food storage?

There are a lot of medicinal herbs growing wild or as ornamental plants in my locale. Most are diuretics but they do the job. Fortunately no one in my family needs any type of medication. Food storage is an issue where I live so it will have to be lots of jerky in the event there is no refrigeration or electricity.

Having some sort of means of fighting topical infections will increase the likelihood of survival. In a Level 3 situation, a cut can turn into gangrene pretty quickly. If you are alone, a broken leg is almost a death sentence.

My wife is a RN. We have enough stuff to take care of a small army. I have a little medical training as well from the military and later when I almost became a nurse.

 

[pismoe]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

 

[koshergrl]

good discussion , when talking 'teotowaki' [level 3] I think that's a simple air burst of a nuke over the USA . Whats it called as I forget but its been in the news these last 10 years or so . But that blast is said to be able to bring the USA and everything to a halt . Military and police 'Might' be disabled because even if their transports are shielded they won't be able to get gas at pumps other than police and military pumps that are shielded . Level 3 would really be difficult especially in where roads and freeways would be clogged as peoples cars and trucks run out of gas , flat tires , breakdowns during an imagined mass exodus from big cities . And then they'd just run outa gas , breakdown on the freeways . -------- Yep , electro magnetic pulse !!

There is no way I'm using the roads. Find a railroad track to navigate if necessary. I'm familiar with all the hiking trails in my area that actually go from city to city in the event I need to move. People turn back into animals very quickly.

 

[Asclepias]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

 

[WinterBorn]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

Feral dogs would be a serious hazard fairly quickly. And knowing how a pack operates would mean the difference between surviving and feeding the pack, unless you are well armed.

 

[pismoe]

and cities discourage guns [Chicago , new York] so the dogs may do a lot of damage in my opinion . And yeah 'acseipias' , stay off the roads , sure , probably best to stay in the apartment with you supplies and shotgun , big well fed and watered dog and wife , friend . Railroad tracks , yep , but depending that railroadTrack and trails might become popular as a highway that bandits hang out at . Water will be a big problem when the electric pumps stop working and then you have to figure out plumbling and waste management . Course , you know your area so maybe your plan is a good one .

 

[Asclepias]

random thought , there is no never ending supply or stock of wildlife ready to be taken for survival . Another though , PET dogs while they can be eaten they won't last forever and stray dogs get mad when starving and form into packs . Rip a man to shreds in a couple minutes . Lot people in the big city have pet dogs that will probably become killers .

As long as rodents exist there will always be wildlife. Also bugs are a good source of protein. Dogs are not too bright and leave plenty of signs they are around even after going feral. The problem with dogs is they will have no natural fear of man like wild animals do.

Feral dogs would be a serious hazard fairly quickly. And knowing how a pack operates would mean the difference between surviving and feeding the pack, unless you are well armed.

I've had my run ins with feral packs while in Georgia at Ft Gordon. Dogs dont have the intelligence nor the determination of say a pack of wolves. Wolves or bears would be my some of my biggest worries if they were around. A bear would just simply take anything it wanted if you didnt have a weapon. Wolves would get you just by wearing you out.

 

[koshergrl]

and reading this thread I am doubly convinced...

City dwellers are goners. Thank goodness, because that's where the vast majority of lunatic lefties live.

 

[Missourian]

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Initially there will be the deer in the suburbs and will feed a few people for a week or two. But the deer are far more adaptable than the majority of the people. They'll be gone (or far harder to hunt) almost immediately.

Having recipes for rat would be a good idea.

And dog.

Seriously, I doubt the ability of most city folk to last very long. There's not just their deplorable lack of common sense and ability...they do incredibly stupid things. Like build fires with treated wood, the smoke of which can be absolutely fatal, and definitely will shorten your life if you're cooking over it. They don't know the basics of food storage, handling, they don't even fully grasp the nature of the importance of water and how to obtain and manage it.

I remember the '81 NYC Garbage Strike...two weeks and the trash piled in the street was taller than a man...couple that with raw sewage, no running water and cooking fires. The major cities will be rotting cesspools of disease interspersed by raging structure fires and burning garbage.

 

[koshergrl]

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Initially there will be the deer in the suburbs and will feed a few people for a week or two. But the deer are far more adaptable than the majority of the people. They'll be gone (or far harder to hunt) almost immediately.

Having recipes for rat would be a good idea.

And dog.

Seriously, I doubt the ability of most city folk to last very long. There's not just their deplorable lack of common sense and ability...they do incredibly stupid things. Like build fires with treated wood, the smoke of which can be absolutely fatal, and definitely will shorten your life if you're cooking over it. They don't know the basics of food storage, handling, they don't even fully grasp the nature of the importance of water and how to obtain and manage it.

I remember the '81 NYC Garbage Strike...two weeks and the trash piles in the street was taller than a man...couple that with raw sewage, no running water and cooking fires. The major cities will be rotting cesspools of disease interspersed by raging structure fires and burning garbage.

Cripes these people die in their apartments when it gets hot outside.

They're clueless.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

A while back I was involved in a discussion where it became obvious that there are a lot of city and suburbia dwellers who think that because deer cruise through their gated communities once in a while, they were set once the supply trucks stopped rolling and the water stopped flowing. There were other city morons who thought they'd be able to trek cross country and invade the countryside, and get along just fine without being picked off by the rural locals.

So, so clueless.

Yep..city folks would be the first to die. Not enough resources and to many people. Couple that with disease and dysentery from drinking contaminated water and you'd have hell on earth in short order.
The suburbs would be marginally better with swimming pools for water and the room to grow a garden but the starving city folks would become a problem real fast.
Moving out to the boonies would be incredibly dangerous with the locals protecting their property but they would eventually be over run by the masses.
You'd really need a large group for protection but then you'd have the problem of feeding that many people.
The best bet IMHO would be to hole up somewhere until after the first die off but of course you'd have to be prepared for at least six months for that to happen.

 

[Missourian]

I think a better means of gauging how severe a disaster, event or change(s) by design could affect life/society as we know it is how fast and effectively the standing government could enforce the law. If it was obvious that police and army infrastructure remained largely intact, and the means they'd usually require to react were visible then it would give opportunists pause for thought. However, if it was clear that the law enforcement was powerless - or they abandoned their posts because the government couldn't pay them - then things would be a lot more serious.

Additionally, having read a lot of material on the whole What If and SHTF situations (it's genuinely interesting stuff), I've noticed that a lot of it comes from either: anarchists, religious nutjobs and people who wish to capitalise on the ensuing choas/power vacuum. Rarely is there any discussion on how we could start working on getting things back to normal from the outset.

If you can't survive for a month without water, shelter, food, power or medical attention, it's not going to matter, you'll be dead.

Yeah, but a complete financial collapse won't poison the water or significantly reduce or spoil wildlife stocks that could sustain us like a natural disaster or nuclear strike could.

You certainly hope so. You realize the chances of a "complete financial collapse" is a lot less likely than a huge earthquake or solar flare or whatever, right?

Solar flare would be exceptionally bad. A broken microwave oven is a perfect Faraday cage, prebuilt, that everyone that has one is trying to get rid of for free...fwiw. Put one in your shed with an outdated (but operational) laptop or tablet and charger, solar calculator, spare susceptible car parts etc.

 

[pismoe]

yep , the gun is a big deal , small carbine and a handgun , I'd say that 9mm would be a good choice . Meant for self defense , think that Marlin and Beretta made the carbine , maybe even the lowly but supposedly supremely reliable 'hi point' . Then a 9mm Glock or two , 2 model 19's might be a good choice . Not for fighting a war , just self defense. If staying in the apartment or house then I'd add a 12 gauge short barreled pump with extended magazine . Probably an 870 or Mossberg but I want a walnut stocked Ithaca pump with extended mag .