What's wrong with Christianity

[NotfooledbyW]

Because that’s what history shows.

What exactly does “ 30. Christianity gave us America.” mean in a historical context.

The colonists and the first four presidents did not limit their minds to Christianity and specifically not to organized religion and Catholicism. They saw the church as corrupt and a great cause of centuries of European bloodshed. The founders designed an America that would not resemble the European model protestants and Catholics

 

[Likkmee]

Most "Christians",like Mooseheads, never actually READ what they bleat,in repeat, from a clown, in a gown
PBUH
Piss Be Upon dey Headz

 

[NotfooledbyW]

14. Christianity serves to bind the community together.

Cardinal Raymond Burke Binds a certain community to ignorance.

23. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church.

Cardinal Raymond Burke Is anti-science with his microchips in vaccines bullhocky

29. Christianity gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians.

Cardinal Raymond Burke Is no thinker or leader.

Christianity gives us Cardinal Raymond Burke who recently spread fear of vaccines because he says the government puts microchips in them that would allow governments to track recipients.

The cardinal has expressed skepticism for social distancing and opposed mandatory vaccinations against COVID-19.

Right-wing cardinal placed on ventilator after spreading microchip conspiracies about vaccines

A right-wing Catholic cardinal who expressed skepticism of the coronavirus vaccines has been placed on a ventilator after his infection with the potentially deadly virus.Cardinal Raymond Burke was hospitalized in Wisconsin, where he was a bishop from 1994 to 2005, and receiving breathing...

www.rawstory.com

"It has been used by certain forces inimical to families and to the freedom of nations, to advance their evil agenda," Burke said in the December homily.”

Now he takes up space in an ICU because he is an infected spreader of the virus that has killed 600,000 Americans.

 

[ding]

Cardinal Raymond Burke Binds a certain community to ignorance.



Cardinal Raymond Burke Is anti-science with his microchips in vaccines bullhocky



Cardinal Raymond Burke Is no thinker or leader.

Christianity gives us Cardinal Raymond Burke who recently spread fear of vaccines because he says the government puts microchips in them that would allow governments to track recipients.

The cardinal has expressed skepticism for social distancing and opposed mandatory vaccinations against COVID-19.

Right-wing cardinal placed on ventilator after spreading microchip conspiracies about vaccines

A right-wing Catholic cardinal who expressed skepticism of the coronavirus vaccines has been placed on a ventilator after his infection with the potentially deadly virus.Cardinal Raymond Burke was hospitalized in Wisconsin, where he was a bishop from 1994 to 2005, and receiving breathing...

www.rawstory.com

"It has been used by certain forces inimical to families and to the freedom of nations, to advance their evil agenda," Burke said in the December homily.”

Now he takes up space in an ICU because he is an infected spreader of the virus that has killed 600,000 Americans.

I see you as the other side of the same coin.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I see you as the other side of the same coin.

Based on what? I’m vaccinated. I did it to help stop the spread of the disease and killing people. And now it’s increasingly harming children. So what other side of saying there’s government installed micro chips in the vaccine is there? What “opposite side” is there that I am guilty of in your corrupt dishonest white cultural Catholic American nationalistic opinion?

 

[ding]

Based on what? I’m vaccinated. I did it to help stop the spread of the disease and killing people. And now it’s increasingly harming children. So what other side of saying there’s government installed micro chips in the vaccine is there? What “opposite side” is there that I am guilty of in your corrupt dishonest white cultural Catholic American nationalistic opinion?

Based upon your posting history and screen name.

 

[Hollie]

Aren't you being a bit saccharine? We also slaughtered the Indians and the buffalo, burned witches, kept slaves.

If the Jesus really did die for our sins, shouldn't we honor his memory by committing them?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Based upon your posting history and screen name.

What posting involves me spreading a ridiculous conspiracy theory such as a Catholic Cardinal did spreading one as sick and demented as the theory that the government is injecting vaccines with microchips in order to track and control them.

Since you will never find a post by me pushing anything like that you are a liar.

Another problem with white Trump supporting right wing Christians these days is a strange unAmerican newly found affection for lying and accepting liars.

The microchips in the vaccine conclusion is a lie.

I don’t lie.

 

[ding]

What posting involves me spreading a ridiculous conspiracy theory such as a Catholic Cardinal did spreading one as sick and demented as the theory that the government is injecting vaccines with microchips in order to track and control them.

Since you will never find a post by me pushing anything like that you are a liar.

Another problem with white Trump supporting right wing Christians these days is a strange unAmerican newly found affection for lying and accepting liars.

The microchips in the vaccine conclusion is a lie.

I don’t lie.

Please dave some more about it.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Please dave some more about it.

What posting involves me spreading a ridiculous conspiracy theory such as a Catholic Cardinal did spreading one as sick and demented as the theory that the government is injecting vaccines with microchips in order to track and control them.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

That's not what eyewitness Alexis de Tocqueville observed. In fact, he made the exact opposite observation.

Alexis de Tocqueville was not a witness to the founding.

Alexis de Tocqueville is not Thomas Jefferson who said what he thought about Christianity. “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion?

To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth. ... Our sister states of Pennsylvania and New York, however, have long subsisted without any establishment at all. The experiment was new and doubtful when they made it. It has answered beyond conception. They flourish infinitely. “

Jefferson (a real founding father) and third President had zero use for kickstarting the American experiment based in any way on the Papist/Protestant Christianity alignment with monarchs for centuries of “ supporting roguery and error all over the earth.”

Tocqueville may have had a deep appreciation for whatever ‘civil order’ there was in FRANCE and in the way that the Pope and Kings kept it. I’m not real sure if Tocqueville was as impressed with the concept of religious freedom which includes freedom from religion as he was watching some early Americans go to church.

And Tocqueville was not a historian - He didn’t see all that was going on with respect to the lack of Christianity on the American frontier;

If you don’t believe me that Christianity was in decline during first of two of America’s founding decades - read these accounts:

Revival at Cane Ridge | Christian History Magazine

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

* On a trip to Tennessee in 1794, Methodist bishop Francis Asbury wrote anxiously about frontier settlers, “When I reflect that not one in a hundred came here to get religion, but rather to get plenty of good land, I think it will be well if some or many do not eventually lose their souls.”

* Andrew Fulton, a Presbyterian missionary from Scotland, discovered in Nashville and in “all the newly formed towns in this western colony, there are few religious people.”

* The minutes of the frontier Transylvania Presbytery reveal deep concern about the “prevalence of vice & infidelity, the great apparent declension of true vital religion in too many places.”

* Rampant alcoholism and avaricious land-grabbing were matched by the increasing popularity of both universalism (the doctrine that all will be saved) and deism (the belief that God is uninvolved in the world).

* Methodist James Smith, traveling near Lexington in the autumn of 1795 feared that “the universalists, joining with the Deists, had given Christianity a deadly stab hereabouts.”

* Hyperbole, perhaps. Still, during the six years preceding 1800, the Methodist Church—most popular among the expanding middle and lower classes—declined in national membership from 67,643 to 61,351.

* In the 1790s the population of frontier Kentucky tripled, but the already meager Methodist membership decreased.

 

[ding]

And that Virginia is what a Mike Lindell type political ideologue looks like.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

And that Virginia is what a Mike Lindell type political ideologue looks like.

What is?

 

[ding]

 

[NotfooledbyW]

And that Virginia is what a Mike Lindell type political ideologue looks like.

Who? Thomas Jefferson?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Are you capable of engaging in a discussion or is your limit looking at pictures?

Do you accept the high plausibility that There were many different and competing views among the founders and colonists with regard to religion in 1790 America?

Can you read at least paragraphs marked by me *a through *e. ?

“What is most repugnant to me in America is not the extreme freedom that reigns there, it is the lack of a guarantee against tyranny.” (M241)
Abstract

https://sites01.lsu.edu/faculty/voegelin/wp-content/uploads/sites/80/2015/09/Horst-Mewes1.pdf

In part due to the conspicuous role played by religion in recent American politics, Tocqueville’s theory of democracy and religion has received renewed attention.

*a His theory is a reminder that among the American political and constitutional founders, two diametrically opposed positions prevailed on the issue of religion.

*b One, most prominently presented by George Washington, maintained that religion in general was the crucial source and mainstay of republican private as well as public morality.

*c The other, most aptly argued by James Madison, claimed that religious sects were no different from other forms of factions or interest groups. Far from viewing them as the underpinnings of public morality, Madison’s main goal was to prevent them from “degenerating” into destructive political factions.

*d Tocqueville’s theory clearly is the peerless articulation of Washington’s version.

*e I shall argue, however, that Tocqueville’s theorizing aims to show the highly ambiguous and paradoxical nature of the function of religion in democracy.

*f Its ability to sustain republican public morality is unproven by the very logic of his arguments.



Tocqueville’s strong democratic individualism clashes with weak religious individualism, only to further strengthen the former. The antidote to weak religious individualism, namely public religious dogma, further enhances the dangers of democratic majority tyranny. In addition, Tocqueville omits any consideration of religion’s ability to influence extreme political ambitions in democracy. My reading offers an alternative to two contemporary interpretations at two polar opposites. One, by Sheldon Wolin, argues that Tocqueville’s use of religion shows him from his most reactionary and anti-democratic side. Religion is nothing more than an antiquated restraint upon the true interests and the will of modern democratic majorities. The other extreme, presented by Joshua Mitchell, argues that Tocqueville’s American democracy is primarily of religious, not political or constitutional, origins, and its contemporary deterioration can only be reversed by a new religious awakening. While, paradoxically, elements of both of these views can easily by found in Tocqueville’s work, neither is an adequate, let alone comprehensive rendition. In my judgment, Tocqueville was as conflicted about the future influence of religion in democracy as he was about democracy itself. The former is thus a reflection of the latter. Both, however, are ultimately rooted in and expressions of basic human needs and aspirations and all its vagaries. Thus, the issue of the impact of religion is for Tocqueville finally a question of human psychology. Hence, the perplexing logic of his arguments is a mirror image of the illogic of human passions.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ding Re: #295

among the American political and constitutional founders, two diametrically opposed positions prevailed on the issue of religion.

Are you in agreement with *a ?

Tocqueville’s theory of democracy and religion:

*a “….. among the American political and constitutional founders, two diametrically opposed positions prevailed on the issue of religion.”

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ding Do you agree with Tocqueville that

“ Protestant ministers had become “businessmen of religion.”

*** Especially in the first volume of Democracy in America Tocqueville is full of admiration for America’s adherence to Christianity. Most striking is of course the mutual support between freedom and religion. However, in an 1831 letter from New York, Tocqueville was strikingly skeptical and even pessimistic about American’s religious practice. He doubted the real “power” of religion, as well as the inertness of its faith, manifesting itself in the fact that not religious dogma but conformist “morality” dominated Protestant services. American democrats are no longer “moved” by religion. He took “so-called tolerance” for a “huge indifference” toward matters of religious faith. Finally, Tocqueville’s early American personal experiences convinced him that Protestantism had brought nothing but “inextricable doubt” to America. He found the “sentiment” of doubt “ruling in the depths of almost everyone’s soul. Protestant ministers had become “businessmen of religion.”

FIRST DRAFT Horst Mewes - Dept. Of Political Science University of Colorado, Boulder - The function of religion in Tocqueville’s theory of democracy. ***

 

[BreezeWood]

.
bing is on leave of abstinence - but surly with the next full moon will return.

 

[Viktor]

If you have negative feelings about something in Christianity feel free to post it here. I created an alternate thread called what is right about Christianity, for those who want to post the like. I'm hoping to avoid the constant bickering that often occurs between posters which ends up distracting from the conversation. Enjoy !

I have no dislike for Christianity, but Orthodox Jews do. They feel that Christians violate the Ten Commandments when they make statues of Jesus and Mary.