What's a liberal?

[Nuc]

I have frequently posted on this board only to have some posters assault me with statements to the effect of "you libs are all the same, libs like you, all libs are the same, and so on. But I don't consider myself a liberal by any means. So I'm wondering what this obsession is about.

 

[Gunny]

I have frequently posted on this board only to have some posters assault me with statements to the effect of "you libs are all the same, libs like you, all libs are the same, and so on. But I don't consider myself a liberal by any means. So I'm wondering what this obsession is about.

Anyone left of me.

 

[insein]

A liberal IMO, is someone who promotes the socialist/communist philosophy. They believe in the state as the true caregiver and that the individual is incapable of caring for themselves much less other people. They believe in a utopian society in which everyone shares all that they make with everyone else. They believe that universal peace is achieved through everyone being the same. Whether you interpret that through the hippy notion of peace and love or Hitler and Stalin's notion of one-ness through force, individuality is the enemy. Anyone that thinks for themselves and becomes self sufficient is an enemy to liberalism.

For the record, i dont believe your a liberal. I believe you are on the left but not to the extremity that liberalism is.

 

[Bonnie]

I have frequently posted on this board only to have some posters assault me with statements to the effect of "you libs are all the same, libs like you, all libs are the same, and so on. But I don't consider myself a liberal by any means. So I'm wondering what this obsession is about.

I think that depends on the perspective of the person, in the former Soviet Union a liberal is the same as conservative here and the conservatives there were in the KGB

IN the U.S. a liberal is one who believes the government is the answer to all problems even the ones it creates.
A liberal is one who has an elitist way of thinking that they are the only smart, generous, open minded, thoughtful, and provactave people, while conservatives are just a bunch of dumb religious hicks who are selfish, hypocritical, closed minded, judgemental, greedy, moralistic, simple minded etc.
Liberals think they are the only ones smart enough to make money, the only ones generous enough to make lots of money but lobby the government to take other's money away from them.
Liberals think their opinion is the only one that belongs on campus.
Liberals think they now have the right to enlighten other people's children on accepting homosexuality, promiscuity, secularism.
Liberals think God is for morons
Liberals think it's okay to be sexually promiscious, adulterous, etc but they are still okay because they give money occasionally to the homeless, and lobby for socialism.
Liberals empathize with pedaphiles, murderers, and think minimal jail time and rehab are sufficient anything more is barbaric.
Liberals think anything short of kissing terrorists collective asses is exhibiting closed minded, and "cowboy" like behavior, " we must understand terrorists, their pain.
Liberals probably think it's stupid to fly the flag.
Liberals want all public traces of religion removed so as not to offend the 30 athiests that live here, heaven forbid!!
Liberals like to rewrite history to suit their own agenda,

JMO ..But none of this applies to you right

 

[Gunny]

A liberal IMO, is someone who promotes the socialist/communist philosophy. They believe in the state as the true caregiver and that the individual is incapable of caring for themselves much less other people. They believe in a utopian society in which everyone shares all that they make with everyone else. They believe that universal peace is achieved through everyone being the same. Whether you interpret that through the hippy notion of peace and love or Hitler and Stalin's notion of one-ness through force, individuality is the enemy. Anyone that thinks for themselves and becomes self sufficient is an enemy to liberalism.

For the record, i dont believe your a liberal. I believe you are on the left but not to the extremity that liberalism is.

The sad part is, that used to be the definition of a socialist/communist, and not a liberal. Nowadays, it's hard to see a divide.

 

[acludem]

The true definition of an American liberal in today's political climate is someone who supports church/state separation, someone who supports equal opportunity and civil liberties for everyone regardless of age, gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. Liberals believe that the government has a responsibility to exert certain controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for businesses to compete and for consumers to spend.

Adolf Hitler was a dictator, he didn't have a political philosophy except that he was great. Mussolini was a fascist, which is the farthest extreme on the political right. Fascism is the merger of corporations and government, a policy wholly supported by the Republican (Fascist) Party in America, maybe not in word, but certainly in deed.

"Liberal" covers a large spectrum of views, just as "Conservative" does. I realize that many of you consider anyone to the left of Pat Robertson to be a flaming, screaming liberal. That's why many Republicans hate Arlen Specter, Christine Todd Whitman, et. al who are the true moderate conscience of that party. There are some on the extreme left of my party who may say the same things about Joe Lieberman, et al. but I am not one of them. I'm a pragmatic, common sense liberal. There are many pragmatic common sense conservatives. Many of the people who post on this board are right-wing extremists who won't walk on the left side of the road.

The real difference? Liberals think and then act, conservatives act and then, if they feel like it, think, but usually only after a liberal fixes their mistake (don't believe me, see Harding-Hoover and then Roosevelt, Reagan/Bush I and then Clinton).

acludem

 

[Avatar4321]

Not a very good poll. You could select multiple answers and still be right.

A liberal is anyone who espouses socialist idealogy, whether they are aware of it or not, and tries to corrupt our Constitution with said idealogy.

 

[theim]

Liberals are idealists who value equality over all else. Freedom they have no use for. In their ideal, perfect world, we all are exactly the same. No money, no power, no forcing others to do things. All equal. Socialism and Anarchism are the goals. Nobody should tell anybody else what to do, which, since liberals beleive humans to be naturally good, will mean that everyone treats everyone else with respect. A very good-sounding ideal indeed. The only thing is...

Humanity on the whole is not naturally good. Humans are selfish, above all else. The most basic human drives can eventually be boiled down to the desire to make yourself happy. This hapiness often comes at the expense of others. Time and time again this has been revealed. As the restraining force of the social order breaks down, violent chaos ensues. This was most recently exibited in NO.

Conservatives see the ideal of the Liberals and realize that it will never come to pass as long as humans have the capacity of thought. Ever. There must be a restraining force. It doesn't have to be (in fact, shouldn't) very large, but it must be there. Disagreeing with even the basic liberal ideal (socialist anarchy), conservatives beleive the natural thing is for people to have nothing more or less than what they earn themselves. And since utopian equality is not the goal, the primary aim of a conservative is not to earn the love or respect of a foe.

Now that my very basic, Hobbesian philosphy is out of the way and explained, let us explore the question of what happens when liberal idealism meets with human nature and the real world.

Havinig explained above that humans want things, it is only logical that they will want as many things as they can accumulate. This, of course, is in direct conflict with the liberal ideal. So what happens? In extreme cases (the USSR, China) the liberals, having secured power, use force to create their utopia. Things are physically taken away from people, and if the people attempt to resist, they are imprisoned or killed for wanting more than their alloted share. In more subtle cases (US Democratic Party) liberals work within the framework of the laws of a free country to take things away, without actually resorting to force. "Progressive taxation" and income redistribution are prime examples of this. Rich people are penalized for no other reason than that they have more than somebody else.

The eventual goal of the latter method is to partially dismantle the free society and institute socialism into law without mass approval, because freedom and equality are inherently in conflict.

Liberals do not recognize national boundaries. Only political boundaries. A member of the movement in Russia is the same as a member of the movement in Botswana. Anybody proud to be American just because they are American is misguidedly nostalgic at best, a jingoistic nutcase at worst. Ergo, they typically hold little or no respect for the country they inhabit, and are not above using its own laws of free speech to undermine and attack it. Keep in mind the eventual ideal is that one day there will be no nations. There is a problem. Most people, unlike liberals, love their country. To get around this, Liberals will declare that they too love their country, they just despise whatever it is their country does. And since, to conservatives, freedom is the goal, liberals are free to say these things with no legal ramifications, all the while chipping away at national pride.

Liberals hold a hatred of the Christian church. Mostly because its the dominant religion. If another religion was espoused by the majority that required strict value judgments, they would hate that too. This is because of the judgements practicing Christians make. Christianity is part of the restraining social order mentioned at the top, which liberals wish to see done away with. Christians do not see homosexuality as a correct way of living and will say so. The is repugnant to liberals. Herein lies another problem, much like the above. Most Americans are Christians. Well, that's OK, so long as their religion is marginalized to such an extent that judgements are no longer able to be made. So now you have a full frontal assault on Christianity. Whereas when this nation was founded, government documents of all types were a lot more religious than "under God" in the pledge, now schoolchildren are no longer allowed to swear loyalty to their country. I do not pretend to know how this particular battle will end. But in the ideal liberal world, Christianity and all value judgement-based religions are out of the picture.

In short liberals are idealists, who are simply unable to admit their ideas have been tried and found severely wanting. Professing to care about people, they think nothing of letting others get slaughtered so long as "the cause" is furthered. Like the Soviets, they believe the cost will be worth it in the end.

And the surefire way you know you have uncovered the true motives of a liberal is when he screeches like a stuck pig when you get close to the truth. If you say burning a US flag on the fourth is inappropriate, you get accused of being a fascist who wants to stifle dissent and have Nuremburg rallys in Chicago. (TIP: Look for the line "How dare you question my patriotism!") If you point out the nobody honestly sees anything offensive about a tree at the capitol being decorated at Christmas, you are accused of wishing all mosques, temples, and synogogues to be torched, and all non-Christians rounded up into camps. If you declare that a 20-hour workweek is perhaps a little light, you are accused of wishing workers to be chained to their machinery, working 23 hour shifts with no breaks, and using little children as coal min air quality testers. Etc.

Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought it would be.

 

[Avatar4321]

The true definition of an American liberal in today's political climate is someone who supports church/state separation, someone who supports equal opportunity and civil liberties for everyone regardless of age, gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. Liberals believe that the government has a responsibility to exert certain controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for businesses to compete and for consumers to spend.

Adolf Hitler was a dictator, he didn't have a political philosophy except that he was great. Mussolini was a fascist, which is the farthest extreme on the political right. Fascism is the merger of corporations and government, a policy wholly supported by the Republican (Fascist) Party in America, maybe not in word, but certainly in deed.

"Liberal" covers a large spectrum of views, just as "Conservative" does. I realize that many of you consider anyone to the left of Pat Robertson to be a flaming, screaming liberal. That's why many Republicans hate Arlen Specter, Christine Todd Whitman, et. al who are the true moderate conscience of that party. There are some on the extreme left of my party who may say the same things about Joe Lieberman, et al. but I am not one of them. I'm a pragmatic, common sense liberal. There are many pragmatic common sense conservatives. Many of the people who post on this board are right-wing extremists who won't walk on the left side of the road.

The real difference? Liberals think and then act, conservatives act and then, if they feel like it, think, but usually only after a liberal fixes their mistake (don't believe me, see Harding-Hoover and then Roosevelt, Reagan/Bush I and then Clinton).

acludem

I honestly have no clue where to begin responding to this garbage.

Liberals don't support the separation of Church and state, they support the elimination of the practice of religion in public. Which is unconstitutional. They fight free speech with political correctness. They have essentially taken our property rights away. They think no honest citizen should own a gun. They think killing an innocent child is a constitutionally guarenteed right while executing a convicted felon is unconstitutional. They think the government can spend our money better than we can.

Liberals don't want to level the corporate playing field. They want to eliminate it. Those "evil" Corporations prove how inefficient government is when it tries to run the economy. It's those "evil capitalist pigs" that keep they little guy down. It's those "evil corporate scumbags" that are killing our environment! It's more important to save trees than for humans to have jobs, heat, or food.

You are a freaking idiot when it comes to fascism. Fascism does demand nationalized corporations. Which is exactly the opposite of what the conservative right stands for. You see, we on the right thing government involvement in business is bad. It's the liberals who want the government controling businesses. You even admitted it in the same freaking post you are trying to accuse Republicans of doing it. Ill give you a reminder.

"Liberals believe that the government has a responsibility to exert certain controls on the economy.."

Now which is a merger of government and corporation? The view that government should stay out of the corporations way? Or the view that government has the responsibility to control them?

It's rather Ironic that you defined yourself and all liberals as fascists.

It's approprate though. You have alot in common. You want the government controling corporations. You care more about trees than humans. You want to kick religion out of the public sphere in favor of the state. you want to impose speech controls. You all hate jews.

But then why wouldn't you be pretty much the same? Whether you call yourselves communist, fascist, or liberal you all espouse the same idealogy: Socialism. You all exalt the state as your god. it is the state that supposed to solve all your problems.

Arlen Specter and Christine Whitman aren't the conscience of the Republican parties. They are the ones corrupting it. They only reason they get elected is because the alternative, a flaming liberal Democrat, is the alternative. They are a choice between bad and hell on earth.

You are a pragmatic sensible liberal? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Seriously, you really think highly of yourself don't you?

Liberals think before they act? Seriously you can't be serious. This is like the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Were you watching your Democrat leadership in the Senate the past few days? They have been making fools of themselves in front of the nation while trying to grill Roberts. Seriously, if your leadership in the Senate is the cream of the liberal crop then you guys are in serious trouble.

And what about your last Presidential Candidate? The man wanted to offer nuclear materials to Iran to get them to stop building nuclear weapons. What kind of idiot would do such a thing? Oh that's right, Clinton and Carter negotiated a deal that gave North Korea nuclear material if they promised not to build nuclear weapons. And what did they do? They took the nuclear material they were given and built nuclear weapons out of it.

Let's look at the former vice President. He went out on the coldest day of the year to denounce Global warming. On top of that the Hollywood left even created a movie showing how global warming caused an ice age. Lot's of intelligent thought going on there.

If anyone acts before they think, it's the left of this country. It's always lets move quickly to destroy the pillars of society before thinking through why such institutions in society exist the way they do to begin with. Let's destroy businesses. Let's destroy family. Let's destroy property rights.

I mean your entire post is a perfect example of not thinking. You don't have any real arguments against Conservatives so you start with: 1)Conservatives are fascists, 2)The only Republicans with consciences are the ones that agree more with you, and 3)Conservatives are stupid. Liberals are educated.

I think if you are pragmatic sensible thinking liberal you can come up with something alittle more convincing.

What mistakes have conservatives made that liberals clean up? We are still trying to clean up social security. We will probably still be trying to clean up the Carter admistration for the next 20 years. We cleaned up Iraq, but Iran was his mess that we still need to clean up. Of course then Carter and

Oh and if you want to learn more about Hitler and his idealogy you can learn from a Phd. You can tell its alot closer to the left then the right.

http://jonjayray.netfirms.com/hitler.html

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The true definition of an American liberal in today's political climate is someone who supports church/state separation

You mean someone who buys in to the paranoia that a nativity scene on public property constitutes some form of coercion.

, someone who supports equal opportunity and civil liberties for everyone regardless of age, gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.

You mean someone who believes in racial quotas to control the racial composition of society.

Liberals believe that the government has a responsibility to exert certain controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for businesses to compete and for consumers to spend.

You mean someone who really believes businesses are evil and the economy should be planned, but lies about it, but will admit it after about an hour of trying to get of them why they FEEL tax cuts don't grow the economy.

Adolf Hitler was a dictator, he didn't have a political philosophy except that he was great. Mussolini was a fascist, which is the farthest extreme on the political right. Fascism is the merger of corporations and government, a policy wholly supported by the Republican (Fascist) Party in America, maybe not in word, but certainly in deed.

"Liberal" covers a large spectrum of views, just as "Conservative" does. I realize that many of you consider anyone to the left of Pat Robertson to be a flaming, screaming liberal. That's why many Republicans hate Arlen Specter, Christine Todd Whitman, et. al who are the true moderate conscience of that party. There are some on the extreme left of my party who may say the same things about Joe Lieberman, et al. but I am not one of them. I'm a pragmatic, common sense liberal. There are many pragmatic common sense conservatives. Many of the people who post on this board are right-wing extremists who won't walk on the left side of the road.

You mean you're one of theose people who's thoughful until their reasoning leads them to see how wrong they are, but then becomes irrational and hurtful instead of accepting that anything liberal could be wrong.

The real difference? Liberals think and then act, conservatives act and then, if they feel like it, think, but usually only after a liberal fixes their mistake (don't believe me, see Harding-Hoover and then Roosevelt, Reagan/Bush I and then Clinton).

acludem

Once again, you must resort to simplistic adhominem attacks against conservatives, because you're outgamed at every turn.

 

[insein]

The true definition of an American liberal in today's political climate is someone who supports church/state separation,

Which isnt what the framers intended. They intended freedom of religion. Meaning that ALL people were free to choose their religion not just those who didnt work for the government. To tell someone that if they want to work for the government they must forget all their personal beliefs is wrong.

someone who supports equal opportunity and civil liberties for everyone regardless of age, gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.

Then why are white, christian males the most persecuted group in the country right now? Are they not americans? Besides which this statement is all bullshit when modern liberals have distorted the image of civil rights to mean, all minorities have better rights than whites. Plus its ok to worship any religion so long as its not Christianity, ie Boy Scouts.

Liberals believe that the government has a responsibility to exert certain controls on the economy to ensure a level playing field for businesses to compete and for consumers to spend.

Which does the complete opposite. It ensures that the playing field is not level and that only those who have big money for lobbyists can change the government to suit their needs. Ie Cigarette companies, Environmentalists, Oil Companies, etc.

Adolf Hitler was a dictator, he didn't have a political philosophy except that he was great. Mussolini was a fascist, which is the farthest extreme on the political right. Fascism is the merger of corporations and government, a policy wholly supported by the Republican (Fascist) Party in America, maybe not in word, but certainly in deed.

Im sorry but any merger with the government is not a conservative ideal. Facism is another form of socialism. This myth about it being a Right wing ideology is simply that a myth. Whats the difference between Stalin and Mussilini? Mussilini didnt kill as many of his own people but they wanted the same things. Total economic control of their countries through government coercion. Sounds like a liberal to me.

"Liberal" covers a large spectrum of views, just as "Conservative" does. I realize that many of you consider anyone to the left of Pat Robertson to be a flaming, screaming liberal.

Which just shows how closed-minded you are. In your eyes you think Bush, Cheney, even Arnold are right there with a moron like Pat Robertson. You do this to justify your labeling your self a "centrist" because you think, well im not Pat robertson so i must be in the middle.

That's why many Republicans hate Arlen Specter, Christine Todd Whitman, et. al who are the true moderate conscience of that party. There are some on the extreme left of my party who may say the same things about Joe Lieberman, et al. but I am not one of them. I'm a pragmatic, common sense liberal.

I'd like to see some evidence for that.

There are many pragmatic common sense conservatives. Many of the people who post on this board are right-wing extremists who won't walk on the left side of the road.

AKA anyone who doesnt agree with the ACLU's world view is a Right-wing extremist.

The real difference? Liberals think and then act, conservatives act and then, if they feel like it, think, but usually only after a liberal fixes their mistake (don't believe me, see Harding-Hoover and then Roosevelt, Reagan/Bush I and then Clinton).

Ha! Im sorry was Jimmy Carter not the worst President of all time? Were the interest rates not 20+%? Was the economy not in the shitter? Did foreign nations not think of us as a doormat because we would cut and run at the sign of any adversity? Reagan turned this country around and we are still feeling its positive effects today. Lets go back further in time. To Great Brittain, 1930's. A man said that Hitler was a threat to us all. He said we must stop Hitler at all costs or he would conquer England. Liberals thought this man was a war-monger and a Right wing extremist. The Leader Nevel Chamberlain decided to let Hitler alone and figured he wouldnt harm them if they didnt provoke him. OF course that liberal ideology worked out right? England was never bombed by Germany and Hitler never took over most of Europe because the liberals back then didnt provoke him right? I think Winston Churchill might have an argument with your assessment of a "liberal."

Besides a few other glaring errors, such as that it was liberal Democrats of the mid 60's that held up the Civil Rights movement and it was those evil conservative Republicans that pushed it through congress, yet now the liberal Democrats are for civil rights and Conservatives are all racists...nah i'd say your whole article here is pretty much crap.

 

[Nuc]

I'll go with Bonnie's definition, although it's pretty negative.

IN the U.S. a liberal is one who believes the government is the answer to all problems even the ones it creates.

Not me. And I wouldn't say this is limited to liberals. Ever heard of the TSA?

A liberal is one who has an elitist way of thinking that they are the only smart, generous, open minded, thoughtful, and provactave people, while conservatives are just a bunch of dumb religious hicks who are selfish, hypocritical, closed minded, judgemental, greedy, moralistic, simple minded etc.

This might apply to me somewhat. I am an arrogant mofo.

Liberals think they are the only ones smart enough to make money, the only ones generous enough to make lots of money but lobby the government to take other's money away from them.

No. I'm against high taxes and take a dim view of entitlement programs.

Liberals think their opinion is the only one that belongs on campus.

NA. I never went to school, because I was already successful in business at the age most people are attending. Don't really care what's going on in college because people can attend the one that suits them. Actually I think the college system in America is a joke because anybody can buy an education here. The schools have a financial incentive to let idiots get good grades.

Liberals think they now have the right to enlighten other people's children on accepting homosexuality, promiscuity, secularism.

I'm in favor of gay rights and secularism. I'm against promiscuity. Especially for other people! But I don't want to educate anyone elses children about this. I don't think any lifestyle crap belongs in the schools, if that's your point.

Liberals think God is for morons

This is a trick statement. God is not for morons, but there sure are a lot of morons pounding on the Bible.

Liberals think it's okay to be sexually promiscious, adulterous, etc but they are still okay because they give money occasionally to the homeless, and lobby for socialism.

Nope.

Liberals empathize with pedaphiles, murderers, and think minimal jail time and rehab are sufficient anything more is barbaric.

Definitely not. Pedophilia should carry a life prison term.

Liberals think anything short of kissing terrorists collective asses is exhibiting closed minded, and "cowboy" like behavior, " we must understand terrorists, their pain.

I'm against terrorism and I'm against the terrorists. I don't even think we should allow any more Muslims into this country unless it's obvious that they are not terrorist and don't even know any terrorists.

Liberals probably think it's stupid to fly the flag.

I've got one. A friend gave it to me after 9/11.

Liberals want all public traces of religion removed so as not to offend the 30 athiests that live here, heaven forbid!!

Don't care about this subject. I used to live in Italy where everything has religion all over it.

Liberals like to rewrite history to suit their own agenda,

Everybody likes to do that.

Guess I'm not a liberal.

 

[Bonnie]

See that Nuc, that wasn't too painful.

BTW you are a bit liberal but that gets overshadowed by your mostly common sense approach to political ideology, which makes you mostly Conservative and you even changed your name to reflect that.

 

[Said1]

See that Nuc, that wasn't too painful.

BTW you are a bit liberal but that gets overshadowed by your mostly common sense approach to political ideology, which makes you mostly Conservative and you even changed your name to reflect that.

I noticed that, I was thinking "new troll".

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

Since acludem already has a couple of people on his butt, I'll back off, but I do want to point out one thing.

I'm a pragmatic, common sense liberal.

Thanks for the laugh, man. Seriously. I needed it.

There are so many different variations of right and left, I don't think there is an easy answer for "What is a liberal?" or "What is a conservative?" anymore. Then, throw Libertarians in the mix, and it becomes that much harder.

I think a lot of people go to a message board chomping at the bit to insult someone, some of them saying things they would never say out loud in public. If you even suggest something that differs from them, they jump to the easy stereotypes and you become a "gay loving commie" or a "war mongering nazi". Hell, I've even been called a Liberal on another site. An odd experience to say the least.

I've also been to a board where I made what I thought was a very fair, "bi-partisan" comment, but mentioned that I had been in the military. The response was something along the lines of, "Nobody cares what trained baby killers think! Go pray to Hitler, you racist pig!". Of course, it was all in caps and misspelled, but that's beside the point.

 

[Big Blue Machin]

insein, everyone's economy was in the shitter during the late 70s/early 80s. It was the price of oil dropping tremously that saved the world. Reagen's tax cuts helped a bit, but they weren't the only answer.

 

[archangel]

well IMO..anyone or entity who proclaims that everything is A okay..."Damn the torpedos and full speed ahead" In other words if it feels good...well shit just do it!

 

[Big Blue Machin]

You guys have been reading too much Ann Coutler/Sean Hannity. America is slightly liberal, deal with it. Don't bitch forever because it won't do anything.

 

[archangel]

You guys have been reading too much Ann Coutler/Sean Hannity. America is slightly liberal, deal with it. Don't bitch forever because it won't do anything.

way up north...I suspect the cold has numbed your brain...the US is a little more than slightly conservative...get a grip or do your homework!

 

[Shattered]

I have frequently posted on this board only to have some posters assault me with statements to the effect of "you libs are all the same, libs like you, all libs are the same, and so on. But I don't consider myself a liberal by any means. So I'm wondering what this obsession is about.

Assault? You gotta be kidding me..