What would you do to fix it?

[Terry]

okie dokie...

Are you kidding me? All the money spent and our country is no better off. They are only spending money to pay off people. They don't care about our Country...they only want more power...yeah so screw the people...and then go on TV and say, BUSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHH was so bad that it's going to cost more money to fix everything....You buy that then your the ******* crazy one.

 

[jillian]

Er...if you want the middle class to have money to spend how does raising their taxes help you towards that goal?

who said "raising" taxes? I said stop cutting taxes for the rich people.

Wall Street Journal dude was on the news this morning saying raising the federal min wage was the stupidest thing you could do during a recession.

The whole WSJ said so or was it a particular person's OPINION?

Also said the best way to fix it would be to give the stimulus money directly to the people.

how? just send out checks so they can pay off debt to the banks?

why not employ them and have them actually EARN money and benefit society like it did when the depression was ended? oh right? you guys want to do revisionist history on that one, don't you?

Raising the minimum wage is certainly the wrong thing to do, especially during a recession. The higher the minimum wage the more unemployment there's going to be.

says who? the austrians? sorry... you know what I think of them and what society would be like if we listened to them.

I don't agree with giving the stimulus money to the people, however. Don't pass a stimulus at all and simply allow the people to keep the money that they earned makes far more sense.

and where do they "earn" money if they're not working because the "cut taxes for the top 1% and let's gamble on risky loans" crowd already broke the economy?

 

[AllieBaba]

okie dokie...

Go ahead and explain how higher taxes gives the middle class more money to spend.

I know you can't, which is why you have reverted to troll mode.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Er...if you want the middle class to have money to spend how does raising their taxes help you towards that goal?

who said "raising" taxes? I said stop cutting taxes for the rich people.

Wall Street Journal dude was on the news this morning saying raising the federal min wage was the stupidest thing you could do during a recession.

The whole WSJ said so or was it a particular person's OPINION?



how? just send out checks so they can pay off debt to the banks?

why not employ them and have them actually EARN money and benefit society like it did when the depression was ended? oh right? you guys want to do revisionist history on that one, don't you?

Raising the minimum wage is certainly the wrong thing to do, especially during a recession. The higher the minimum wage the more unemployment there's going to be.

says who? the austrians? sorry... you know what I think of them and what society would be like if we listened to them.

I don't agree with giving the stimulus money to the people, however. Don't pass a stimulus at all and simply allow the people to keep the money that they earned makes far more sense.

and where do they "earn" money if they're not working because the "cut taxes for the top 1% and let's gamble on risky loans" crowd already broke the economy?

Yes, I know what you think of the one school of economic thought that predicted this downturn would happen en masse.

Had the Federal Reserve not tampered with interest rates those loans wouldn't have been possible.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

okie dokie...

Are you kidding me? All the money spent and our country is no better off. They are only spending money to pay off people. They don't care about our Country...they only want more power...yeah so screw the people...and then go on TV and say, BUSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHH was so bad that it's going to cost more money to fix everything....You buy that then your the ******* crazy one.

What is your program? What are the goals, how will your program achieve the goals you want?

I personally think a tax cut is a good idea. Get the money in the hands of the people.

I am not disagreeing with your points, but this is not the thread for that.

i am also not disagreeing with you that there were serious dumb things done in the past. What smart thing would you do in the future?

 

[AllieBaba]

Er...if you want the middle class to have money to spend how does raising their taxes help you towards that goal?

who said "raising" taxes? I said stop cutting taxes for the rich people.

Wall Street Journal dude was on the news this morning saying raising the federal min wage was the stupidest thing you could do during a recession.

The whole WSJ said so or was it a particular person's OPINION?



how? just send out checks so they can pay off debt to the banks?

why not employ them and have them actually EARN money and benefit society like it did when the depression was ended? oh right? you guys want to do revisionist history on that one, don't you?

Raising the minimum wage is certainly the wrong thing to do, especially during a recession. The higher the minimum wage the more unemployment there's going to be.

says who? the austrians? sorry... you know what I think of them and what society would be like if we listened to them.

I don't agree with giving the stimulus money to the people, however. Don't pass a stimulus at all and simply allow the people to keep the money that they earned makes far more sense.

and where do they "earn" money if they're not working because the "cut taxes for the top 1% and let's gamble on risky loans" crowd already broke the economy?

3/4 of the stimulus money given to the states is lost, unaccounted for, used to pay off state debt and Medicaid. It has done nothing to generate job growth. Better that it just went to the people (though the whold concept of a stimulus is idiotic anyway).

You think shutting down companies (you know, those pesky rich guys) is a sound way of protecting jobs? Penalizing corporations, who then lay off and declare bankruptcy?

So how much good have your party's wonderful economic strategies done since Obama came into office? More jobs? More money? Companies popping up all over the place?

Nope. It gets worse and worse. And will continue to until it stops.

 

[Terry]

...the government has no business running private business in competition with other businesses. All the stock the government has accumulated over the past year should be put into a mutual fund, which should be sold off.

Q for you. One idea that was floated regarding social security was to invest the money in the stock market. Are you for or against that? Should the government never be in the business of "owning" (portions of) private corporations?

Abolish SS!!!!!!!!!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

...the government has no business running private business in competition with other businesses. All the stock the government has accumulated over the past year should be put into a mutual fund, which should be sold off.

Q for you. One idea that was floated regarding social security was to invest the money in the stock market. Are you for or against that? Should the government never be in the business of "owning" (portions of) private corporations?

Good question... I have to say no. Even if it were a good idea for a government agency to own equities, the stock market is too small a puddle for the huge sums of money that the social security system deals with.

As it is, corporations and the government have too much of an incestuous relationship already. Just imagine all the corruption we would have under that kind of regime

I was in favor of citizens being able to shift money from control by the government to move social security taxes to 401K style contributions. I do think the average citizen could make a better deal.

 

[Care4all]

You see Obama wants to kill jobs, he wants to break people to where they will only rely on the Feds to help them out. I see no other explanation as to why our congress and President are doing all these things when you add in the Czars and other shit. And all the while wearing a mask of trying to fix the economy so his sleep will fall step in line.

that seems silly terry....killing jobs is killing the gvt's cash cow with less income tax collection, due to no one working, no?

so, i don't think you are right on this...

care

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Interesting. I think diminishing the working class by reducing their wages is probably the worst possible thing to do in a recession. You need people's actual purchasing power to increase, not diminish.

Exactly. Having far fewer people actually working is a far better way to get more Dems elected. Need more people on the teat! Can't let them work for a lower wage or anything. Having no job at all is much better than working a little cheaper for awhile! Plus, who needs revenue anyway?

 

[AllieBaba]

You see Obama wants to kill jobs, he wants to break people to where they will only rely on the Feds to help them out. I see no other explanation as to why our congress and President are doing all these things when you add in the Czars and other shit. And all the while wearing a mask of trying to fix the economy so his sleep will fall step in line.

that seems silly terry....killing jobs is killing the gvt's cash cow with less income tax collection, due to no one working, no?

so, i don't think you are right on this...

care

You put way too much faith in the collective intelligence of the government.

Income tax is a state thing, anyway.

 

[Oddball]

You see Obama wants to kill jobs, he wants to break people to where they will only rely on the Feds to help them out. I see no other explanation as to why our congress and President are doing all these things when you add in the Czars and other shit. And all the while wearing a mask of trying to fix the economy so his sleep will fall step in line.

that seems silly terry....killing jobs is killing the gvt's cash cow with less income tax collection, due to no one working, no?

so, i don't think you are right on this...

care

Killing jobs means yet another "crisis"....Which in turn calls for the benevolent hand of Big Daddy Big Gubbament to step in and "fix" it.

Nice work, if you can get it.

 

[eagleseven]

E7's 10 Step Plan to Recovery!

1. Smash every company that has received bailout funds with anti-trust legislation, force liquidation, and use the proceeds to pay off creditors as stipulated.

2. Use the Federal Reserve to print out money to pay off all FDIC-insured accounts in the collapsing banks.

3. Temporarily disband the EPA, Department of Education, and disconnect all Federal corporations (USPS, NASA, etc.).

4. Create a tax holiday for all businesses registered with the Small Business Administration. Additionally, copy China and eliminate the Capital Gains taxes, to promote capital flow.

5. Complete a withdrawal of Iraq, reduce our presence in Afghanistan, and close a majority of our military bases. Temporarily reduce the Defense budget by at least 1/3, by drastically reducing both our active air fleet and the quantity of technology available to our soldiers. Begin rejuvenating our nuclear program, to maintain our ICBM stocks.

6. Scrap the bailout, TARP, and Cap-and-Trade. Refocus the funds saved from the military and closed departments into first covering Social Security payments, and then to supporting state unemployment programs. Any leftover must be directed towards paying down the debt.

7. Eliminate the IRS and replace with a tiered tax regiment, and a new Federal Income Service, with just one tax form. Everyone pays, save those on Social Security. The middle 50% of earners will pay 50% of their income, the top 25% will pay 75%, and the bottom 25% will only pay 25%. These numbers may be tweaked as necessary.

8. Print enough money from the Federal Reserve to maintain a 10-20% inflation rate. This money will be used to pay down the national debt, and reduce the nation's debtload through inflation (most Americans have a negative net worth). As the debt reduces, slowly reduce the inflation rate down to about 2%.

9. Eliminate minimum wage, and enact law governing corporations, so that the maximum salary paid by said corporation must not exceed 25 times the lowest salary paid by the corporation. This includes benefits. Thus, corporations will be forced to pay proportional wages, while small businesses can benefit from cheap labor.

10. Increase tarrifs on all countries that work against our national interest (everyone but UK, Iraq, Israel, Canada, Colombia, Brazil, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Egypt). Funnel proceeds to the Small Business Administration.


It is drastic, and very painful in the short-term, but it will set up the US for long-term growth. Consider the plan a "purifying fire" that will cleanse our economy of the decay and return it to a path of sustainable growth.

 

[Annie]

I'd not change any current rate of minimum wage, not because I think it a good thing, just don't think we should penalize those now being paid whatever it is.

With that said, stop increasing. Those getting minimum wage are new workers or workers entering without skills. Most folks with hs diploma are making more.

As for our economy:

1. Stop spending.

2. Stop penalizing those that are producing.

3. Hold taxes steady, until GNP rises.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

E7's 10 Step Plan to Recovery!

1. Smash every company that has received bailout funds with anti-trust legislation, force liquidation, and use the proceeds to pay off creditors as stipulated.

2. Use the Federal Reserve to print out money to pay off all FDIC-insured accounts in the collapsing banks.

3. Temporarily disband the EPA, Department of Education, and disconnect all Federal corporations (USPS, NASA, etc.).

4. Create a tax holiday for all businesses registered with the Small Business Administration. Additionally, copy China and eliminate the Capital Gains taxes, to promote capital flow.

5. Complete a withdrawal of Iraq, reduce our presence in Afghanistan, and close a majority of our military bases. Temporarily reduce the Defense budget by at least 1/3, by drastically reducing both our active air fleet and the quantity of technology available to our soldiers. Begin rejuvenating our nuclear program, to maintain our ICBM stocks.

6. Scrap the bailout, TARP, and Cap-and-Trade. Refocus the funds saved from the military and closed departments into first covering Social Security payments, and then to supporting state unemployment programs. Any leftover must be directed towards paying down the debt.

7. Eliminate the IRS and replace with a tiered tax regiment, and a new Federal Income Service, with just one tax form. Everyone pays, save those on Social Security. The middle 50% of earners will pay 50% of their income, the top 25% will pay 75%, and the bottom 25% will only pay 25%. These numbers may be tweaked as necessary.

8. Print enough money from the Federal Reserve to maintain a 10-20% inflation rate. This money will be used to pay down the national debt, and reduce the nation's debtload through inflation (most Americans have a negative net worth). As the debt reduces, slowly reduce the inflation rate down to about 2%.

9. Eliminate minimum wage, and enact law governing corporations, so that the maximum salary paid by said corporation must not exceed 25 times the lowest salary paid by the corporation. This includes benefits. Thus, corporations will be forced to pay proportional wages, while small businesses can benefit from cheap labor.

10. Increase tarrifs on all countries that work against our national interest (everyone but UK, Iraq, Israel, Canada, Colombia, Brazil, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Egypt). Funnel proceeds to the Small Business Administration.


It is drastic, and very painful in the short-term, but it will set up the US for long-term growth. Consider the plan a "purifying fire" that will cleanse our economy of the decay and return it to a path of sustainable growth.

Why in the world do you want to debase our currency through inflation?

 

[RodISHI]

Lower the over time limits.

30 hours a week with companies that have more than 100 employees.
35 hours a week with companies that have more than fifty employees.
37 hours a week with companies that have more than twenty-five employees.

Give generous five and ten year tax breaks to all start-ups in manufacturing and processing/production oriented fields and their investor or angels.

 

[eagleseven]

8. Print enough money from the Federal Reserve to maintain a 10-20% inflation rate. This money will be used to pay down the national debt, and reduce the nation's debtload through inflation (most Americans have a negative net worth). As the debt reduces, slowly reduce the inflation rate down to about 2%.

Why in the world do you want to debase our currency through inflation?

1. It would reduce both our debt and our savings. Since America has no savings, this would be a net positive.

2. A cheap dollar would encourage others to purchase our exports, thus balancing the trade deficit.

3. Money-printing is about the only way to prevent the implosion of Social Security without taxing my generation at 95% for the rest of our lives. Why should I pay for the Baby Boomer's mistakes, when we can spread the pain around through inflation?

4. It would reduce the American standard of living across all classes and neighborhoods, bringing us into a more stable equilibrium with the rest of the world.


Am I suggesting playing with fire? Yes. I am well-versed on the potential horrors of inflation, but we have few options remaining. Taxing the hell out of the GenXers and Millenials for the next half-decade would be far worse.

We may even see a "currency reset" in the coming decades, if today's runaway spending isn't controlled.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

8. Print enough money from the Federal Reserve to maintain a 10-20% inflation rate. This money will be used to pay down the national debt, and reduce the nation's debtload through inflation (most Americans have a negative net worth). As the debt reduces, slowly reduce the inflation rate down to about 2%.

Why in the world do you want to debase our currency through inflation?

1. It would reduce both our debt and our savings. Since America has no savings, this would be a net positive.

2. A cheap dollar would encourage others to purchase our exports, thus balancing the trade deficit.

3. Money-printing is about the only way to prevent the implosion of Social Security without taxing my generation at 95% for the rest of our lives. Why should I pay for the Baby Boomer's mistakes, when we can spread the pain around through inflation?

4. It would reduce the American standard of living across all classes and neighborhoods, bringing us into a more stable equilibrium with the rest of the world.


Am I suggesting playing with fire? Yes. I am well-versed on the potential horrors of inflation, but we have few options remaining. Taxing the hell out of the GenXers and Millenials for the next half-decade would be far worse.

We may even see a "currency reset" in the coming decades, if today's runaway spending isn't controlled.

Well inflation is essentially a tax, so to say that inflation is preferable to direct taxation makes no sense. You're losing wealth regardless. It's also immoral to pay off our debt with devalued dollars. Rather than calling for inflation you should be calling for massive spending cuts that way taxes don't need to be raised.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Someone else posted this thread a while ago. It died lonely and forgotten, but I thought I would try and resuscitate it.

A few ground rules, just to make life more fun. If you want to do Neener neener, it is X's fault, do so on the thread for that purpose, or make a new one one for that purpose. It is already at 7 pages. But that kind of thing bores me.

Just give a list of ideas that you think would bring back the economy and why it would work. If you have issues with someone idea, create a thread for that discussion, but post your own ideas here only.


For me, I would like to see the Min wage rescinded back to 2007 levels. Unemployed is not better than working for peanuts.

2 a real tax cut for everyone getting wages less than 100,000. Not the small joker that 0bama gave, but something more real.

Fannie Mae and Freddie go back to the old standards for basic loan packages. However, they can also create 'sub prime' packages and sell them either as 10% sub prime in a regular package or as just plain high risk high return portfolios. Either way, the derivative buyers would know what they were getting, rather than loads of junk disguised as quality loans. If the derivative buyers know they are getting better quality stuff, they might be more willing to buy.

the government has no business running private business in competition with other businesses. All the stock the government has accumulated over the past year should be put into a mutual fund, which should be sold off.

All the bad loans the government has bought should be packaged and sold as high risk securities.

Any other good or bad ideas?

Well, first we should deal with the problems of the financial system and the problems of the real economy separately. The recession is the result of credit markets freezing up, so to help ease the recession, we have to expand the amount of credit available to consumers and businesses. Since no one has yet come up with a plan to expand the amount of credit banks and other financial institutions have to offer, instead of throwing more money away on a second stimulus package or on any of the other ill considered items on Obama's/Dems' shopping list, the federal government can make large amounts of money, a trillion or more, available for loans to consumers and businesses that are credit worthy. Once the money is appropriated, this can be done quickly, almost immediately, by contracting banks and other lending institutions to handle the loans according to rules and parameters set out by the Treasury.

As consumers begin to spend, businesses will be able to borrow money to expand their operations to accomodate this new business. This activity will, of course, create new government revenues at all levels, and because the money is being loaned at interest and not being given away, it will cost taxpayers nothing. Lending institutions will earn fees for handling this business and this will help them replenish their own reserves. As the strength of the private financial system grows, this money can be withdrawn from circulation and used to retire the debt that created it. In the meantime, this plan will help to blunt the effect of the financial crisis on the real economy.

This plan will immediately begin saving jobs.

 

[eagleseven]

Why in the world do you want to debase our currency through inflation?

1. It would reduce both our debt and our savings. Since America has no savings, this would be a net positive.

2. A cheap dollar would encourage others to purchase our exports, thus balancing the trade deficit.

3. Money-printing is about the only way to prevent the implosion of Social Security without taxing my generation at 95% for the rest of our lives. Why should I pay for the Baby Boomer's mistakes, when we can spread the pain around through inflation?

4. It would reduce the American standard of living across all classes and neighborhoods, bringing us into a more stable equilibrium with the rest of the world.


Am I suggesting playing with fire? Yes. I am well-versed on the potential horrors of inflation, but we have few options remaining. Taxing the hell out of the GenXers and Millenials for the next half-decade would be far worse.

We may even see a "currency reset" in the coming decades, if today's runaway spending isn't controlled.

Well inflation is essentially a tax, so to say that inflation is preferable to direct taxation makes no sense. You're losing wealth regardless. It's also immoral to pay off our debt with devalued dollars. Rather than calling for inflation you should be calling for massive spending cuts that way taxes don't need to be raised.

Notice, my plan does call for MASSIVE cuts across the board, including even the military. But it will not be enough. Inflation is preferable to a direct tax in the future, yes. Why? Because inflation hits everyone. Direct taxation will hit me maybe a decade or two from now, when I'm hitting the prime of my career. I'd MUCH rather we suffer now with inflation, than suffer latter with taxes.

Also, by using printed dollars to pay off our debt, we'll be avoiding the interest of carrying that debt load for another decade or so.

Our Unfunded Liabilities (ie Social Security + Medicare + Debt) has recently reached $100 trillion. With a GDP of only $14 trillion, we'll never pay that off, even at a 100% tax rate. Either our social programs will collapse, or the government will turn to inflation. It is inevitable.

Remember, it was unfunded retirement liabilities that took down General Motors...as General Motors goes, so goes America.