What was the first religion?

[Anonymous1977]

Exactly, the first religion was with Adam and Eve and God. Before they messed it up, but that worked out well for all of us.

Greetings, Sir,

I hope that you are doing fine today...

I just wanted to say that my posts are being hacked & altered. If you are at all interested, here is what I originally said:

"I think that the 'fall' of Adam in the Bible does not necessarily mess things up for everyone. The Bible might say this or that, but I know that it says 'women can't talk in church.' Such a sexist statement makes me know that not everything in the Bible is necessarily true.

Peace and may God Bless you.
Anonymous1977"

Peace and may God Bless you.
Anonymous1977

 

[Treeshepherd]

The Bible might say this or that, but I know that it says 'women can't talk in church.' Such a sexist statement makes me know that not everything in the Bible is necessarily true.

Paul is addressing a specific real world problem where community meetings were being disrupted. I don't even think there were Christian church buildings at the time. And that's where people run into problems saying the Bible says this or the Bible advocates that. Such arguments lack the sophistication of exegesis.

Elsewhere, Paul repeatedly recognizes the contributions of many female apostles and minister who were going about spreading the Gospels. For the time period, the Gospels were extremely feminist.

In the OT there are too many prominent women to list, among them the judge Deborah.

 

[BluePhantom]

it was "Adam, don't forget that God is stopping by tonight after supper"......

Exactly, the first religion was with Adam and Eve and God. Before they messed it up, but that worked out well for all of us.

Well...again Adam and Eve is a nice story but I don't think it is one that should be taken literally. Do some research on Enki and Ninhursag and you will find a very similar story in Sumarian mythology about 2000 year prior to the Genesis account.

Aye, Epic of Gilgamesh contains a story curiously similar to the Genesis creation story. Can actually read it here:

The Epic of Gilgamish Index

And the Aboriginies too have a creation story which is even older still.

Well the old saying is that there is a flood of flood narratives. Gilgamesh is probably one of the best known which is why I pointed to that one, but in reality there are so many flood myths that the Noah story could have come from any or all of them. Now some people will argue that since the story exists in so many cultures around the world that it gains credibility according to the criterion of multiple attestation and that would be true, but as far as I know there is no archaeological evidence for a world wide flood. There was the one nut case who claimed to have found the ark but upon further examination it was just a rock formation. Some people still claim that it is but it's a bunch of horseshit.

 

[BluePhantom]

The Bible might say this or that, but I know that it says 'women can't talk in church.' Such a sexist statement makes me know that not everything in the Bible is necessarily true.

Paul is addressing a specific real world problem where community meetings were being disrupted. I don't even think there were Christian church buildings at the time. And that's where people run into problems saying the Bible says this or the Bible advocates that. Such arguments lack the sophistication of exegesis.

Elsewhere, Paul repeatedly recognizes the contributions of many female apostles and minister who were going about spreading the Gospels. For the time period, the Gospels were extremely feminist.

In the OT there are too many prominent women to list, among them the judge Deborah.

This is true and the other thing to keep in mind that that while Paul writes about this in 1 Cortinthians 14:34-35 the majority of the negative stuff about women is largely considered to be pseudopigraphic (someone claiming to be Paul that was not). 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy contain some pretty harsh stuff but most scholars do not think Paul actually wrote those.

 

[sealybobo]

It was probably the witch doctors in Africa that started it all. They discovered they could have power over other people by claiming special powers, and the whole thing took off from there.

The whole idea comes from not liking not knowing what happens when we die. I imagine caveman told stories of an afterlife.

 

[orogenicman]

What I find most interesting is the question of whether religion was a consequence of human consciousness, or a prerequisite. I suspect they are deeply connected, in any case.

That is an odd notion, since it apparently implies that if one does not believe, one is not conscious.

 

[sealybobo]

it was "Adam, don't forget that God is stopping by tonight after supper"......

Exactly, the first religion was with Adam and Eve and God. Before they messed it up, but that worked out well for all of us.

Well...again Adam and Eve is a nice story but I don't think it is one that should be taken literally. Do some research on Enki and Ninhursag and you will find a very similar story in Sumarian mythology about 2000 year prior to the Genesis account.

Aye, Epic of Gilgamesh contains a story curiously similar to the Genesis creation story. Can actually read it here:

The Epic of Gilgamish Index

And the Aboriginies too have a creation story which is even older still.

Well the old saying is that there is a flood of flood narratives. Gilgamesh is probably one of the best known which is why I pointed to that one, but in reality there are so many flood myths that the Noah story could have come from any or all of them. Now some people will argue that since the story exists in so many cultures around the world that it gains credibility according to the criterion of multiple attestation and that would be true, but as far as I know there is no archaeological evidence for a world wide flood. There was the one nut case who claimed to have found the ark but upon further examination it was just a rock formation. Some people still claim that it is but it's a bunch of horseshit.

But if noah is just an allegory maybe Jesus is too. Theists love trying to explain why god hides but believe he visited 200 years ago Adam smith 1400 years ago Mohammad 2015 Jesus 2500 years ago moses god visited humans? Evolve people.

 

[sealybobo]

And was the first religion the right religion?

If I'm going to worship anything its the sun. The people who worshipped the sun had it right. Pray each night it returns.

 

[dblack]

What I find most interesting is the question of whether religion was a consequence of human consciousness, or a prerequisite. I suspect they are deeply connected, in any case.

That is an odd notion, since it apparently implies that if one does not believe, one is not conscious.

Why does it imply that? That's certainly not how I see it.

 

[orogenicman]

Non est ad astra mollis e terris via

The distance is too great to colonize other worlds, in my opinion. We're stuck on this rock.

But another genesis could occur on another world, by the same 'instruction' that sparked life on this planet. It's the Creator who is motive throughout the universe, not the created.

This reminds me of the creationist banana argument:

 

[orogenicman]

What I find most interesting is the question of whether religion was a consequence of human consciousness, or a prerequisite. I suspect they are deeply connected, in any case.

That is an odd notion, since it apparently implies that if one does not believe, one is not conscious.

Why does it imply that? That's certainly not how I see it.

Look at the logic of the statement. It is a slippery slope. If religion is a prerequisite of human consciousness, it implies that without religion, there is no human consciousness. Again, slippery slope.

 

[sealybobo]

Of all the stars and planets we know this combination harbors life. But the sun isn't out father or parents. We come from different stars. So I guess we should also worship other stars and our planet. And the moon. Dont forget commits. They are the spirm.

 

[dblack]

What I find most interesting is the question of whether religion was a consequence of human consciousness, or a prerequisite. I suspect they are deeply connected, in any case.

That is an odd notion, since it apparently implies that if one does not believe, one is not conscious.

Why does it imply that? That's certainly not how I see it.

Look at the logic of the statement. It is a slippery slope. If religion is a prerequisite of human consciousness, it implies that without religion, there is no human consciousness. Again, slippery slope.

Well, that's not what I meant. I just think it's possible that religious awareness preceded self-awareness in terms of evolution, and may have been a necessary step in the development of consciousness. That's wild speculation, of course, but even if it were true it doesn't mean atheists aren't conscious, or that we need religion to be conscious.

 

[sealybobo]

What I find most interesting is the question of whether religion was a consequence of human consciousness, or a prerequisite. I suspect they are deeply connected, in any case.

Think about the reasons why a caveman would come up with "there must be a god". People still do it today. Its a very primitive superstitious belief that too many humans still believe. Mormons Muslims christians are just the latest evolution of the god theory.

 

[LittleNipper]

The oldest known religious icon was a snake statue found in a cave in Africa. It is 70,000 years old.

Canadian unearths 70 000-year-old religious snake icon

I'm not gullible. There is no way anyone can prove that a rock sculpture is that ancient unless one fully BELIEVES that the FLOOD never happened. I believe that God created the entire Universe thousands of years ago. You obviously do not and so you must side with this Canadian who is convinced in his own mind that evolution is a fact.

 

[BluePhantom]

it was "Adam, don't forget that God is stopping by tonight after supper"......

Exactly, the first religion was with Adam and Eve and God. Before they messed it up, but that worked out well for all of us.

Well...again Adam and Eve is a nice story but I don't think it is one that should be taken literally. Do some research on Enki and Ninhursag and you will find a very similar story in Sumarian mythology about 2000 year prior to the Genesis account.

Aye, Epic of Gilgamesh contains a story curiously similar to the Genesis creation story. Can actually read it here:

The Epic of Gilgamish Index

And the Aboriginies too have a creation story which is even older still.

Well the old saying is that there is a flood of flood narratives. Gilgamesh is probably one of the best known which is why I pointed to that one, but in reality there are so many flood myths that the Noah story could have come from any or all of them. Now some people will argue that since the story exists in so many cultures around the world that it gains credibility according to the criterion of multiple attestation and that would be true, but as far as I know there is no archaeological evidence for a world wide flood. There was the one nut case who claimed to have found the ark but upon further examination it was just a rock formation. Some people still claim that it is but it's a bunch of horseshit.

But if noah is just an allegory maybe Jesus is too. Theists love trying to explain why god hides but believe he visited 200 years ago Adam smith 1400 years ago Mohammad 2015 Jesus 2500 years ago moses god visited humans? Evolve people.

Well anything is possible. There are certainly those who argue that Jesus never existed. They are called mythicists. I don't find their arguments convincing myself, but there is a school of thought on that

 

[LittleNipper]

The very first "religion" was when Cain brought to the Lord what he wanted to bring and not what God demanded. God wishes a relationship as He reaches down to man. What man creates is religion as a means to reach God through his own merit..

 

[MaryL]

Damned good question. Delta4. I would rate your post and this thread a zillion thumbs up, if I could. I like god, but anyone here seen him lately? No postcards, not a phone call, nothing...

 

[orogenicman]

The oldest known religious icon was a snake statue found in a cave in Africa. It is 70,000 years old.

Canadian unearths 70 000-year-old religious snake icon

I'm not gullible. There is no way anyone can prove that a rock sculpture is that ancient unless one fully BELIEVES that the FLOOD never happened. I believe that God created the entire Universe thousands of years ago. You obviously do not and so you must side with this Canadian who is convinced in his own mind that evolution is a fact.

Obviously I do not, that is correct. Why? I side with evolution and geology because, as a geologist, I can demonstrate in the field and in the laboratory the truth of the science, Virtually the entire planet's compliment of scientists have accepted the fact of evolution. Frankly, that I have to argue the case in the 21st century speaks to the incompetence of our education system. And finally, if you believe in a literal interpretation of Noah and his ark, then you certainly are very gullible. Sorry, I can't be kind about this because it can readily be demonstrated that the Flintstones is NOT a documentary.

 

[Anonymous1977]

Paul is addressing a specific real world problem where community meetings were being disrupted. I don't even think there were Christian church buildings at the time. And that's where people run into problems saying the Bible says this or the Bible advocates that. Such arguments lack the sophistication of exegesis...

Well what one "thinks" (about whether or not "there were Christian church buildings at the time") is irrelevant I think...here is the full context of the statement from the Bible:

"(34)Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. (35)And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." 1 Cor. 14:34-35

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS BLATANT SEXISM!

(The Bible says: "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:)

EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE!!!