What Leftism Does to People

[Bfgrn]

The housing crisis was indeed caused by government interference with that market that led to risky loans building an unsustainable bubble that created the crisis when too many defaulted on those loans and the bubble burst. That is, it was socialist policy that created the bubble.

And as interesting and important a topic as that is, it has absolutely nothing to do with why the leftists protesting in the Occupy groups are behaving so badly.

While those who lobby/protest/demonstrate/rally for personal freedom and less government involvement in our lives do not act badly but make a point to be good citizens.

So is it the leftist mentality that provokes such bad behavior?

That is Andrew Klavan's thesis. Apparently many here are really uncomfortable with that concept.

Let's explore Klavan's thesis...

These people were very well behaved.

And theses people showed bad behavior, trespassed and destroyed private property.

Mass murder is well behaved?

You arent seriously that stupid are you?

Clearly they are very well behaved. I am sure they cleaned up after themselves and let the hall spotless. So WHAT does that prove about good or evil...NOTHING.

Well behaved tea partiers who then go to Washington and dismantle environmental protection that leads to the premature deaths of thousands of citizens are ALSO mass murderers.

 

[Foxfyre]

Noting Bfgm's haste to evoke Godwin's Law to avoid dealing with the thesis.

Anyboy brave enough to deal with it? Anybody at all?

Bullshit you arrogant ass. CLEARLY behavior alone is not an accurate criteria. People who are highly conformist is not the desirable end.

So you are saying that leftism is not a component in the behavior of the Occupy groups? What do you attribute that bad behavior to?

And what do you attribute the courteous, respectful behavior of the Tea Party to?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The housing crisis was indeed caused by government interference with that market that led to risky loans building an unsustainable bubble that created the crisis when too many defaulted on those loans and the bubble burst. That is, it was socialist policy that created the bubble.

And as interesting and important a topic as that is, it has absolutely nothing to do with why the leftists protesting in the Occupy groups are behaving so badly.

While those who lobby/protest/demonstrate/rally for personal freedom and less government involvement in our lives do not act badly but make a point to be good citizens.

So is it the leftist mentality that provokes such bad behavior?

That is Andrew Klavan's thesis. Apparently many here are really uncomfortable with that concept.

Let's explore Klavan's thesis...

These people were very well behaved.

And theses people showed bad behavior, trespassed and destroyed private property.

Allow me to take a moment to disabuse our ignorant friend, BoringFriendlessGuy of the idea that paticipants in the American Revolution were as he characterized them: "And theses people showed bad behavior, trespassed and destroyed private property."


1. Benjamin Franklin insisted that the tea be paid for, and a collection taken up. George Washington made a point of saying “not that we approve their conduct in destroying the ‘Tea…’ Joseph Ellis, “His Excellency: George Washington,” p. 61.

2. The men behind the American Revolution- the Minutemen, the signers of the Declaration of Independence, the framers of the Constitution- were the very opposite of a mob. For the most part, educated, aristocratic property holders, doctors, lawyers, ministers and other respectable tradesmen with everything to lose should the revolution fail. These were the classical liberals, or, as we would address them today, the conservatives.

a. The modern Tea Party still abhors mob behavior. This from a rally in Boston: “The Obama Hitler sign. Let’s look out for those people, and make sure people know they’re not us.” A middle-aged, out-of-work Republican from Jamaica Plain agreed that it was crucial to police the line between the reasonable Tea Party people and party crashers: “We need to disabuse the public of some of the more exotic rumors out there.” Boston tea parties past and present : The New Yorker

b. A 26-year-old Tea Partier from MIT thought about throwing a copy of the 2000-page health care bill into Boston Harbor…but changed his mind when he found out it would be against the law. Ibid.

3.Liberals, it seems, would rather view all revolutions as under the auspices of mobs. Their fav revolutions are those impelled by hairy, foul-smelling revolutionaries like Che Guevara, Fidel Castro, and Susan Sarandon.

4. The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”

a. "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were... the general principles of Christianity. ...I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." - Letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813


Boring has often provided proof of his ignorance....herein he also reveals his bigotry.

While a truly stupid fellow, I do wish to thank him for providing me with the opportunity to post this information.
It is covered far more fully in Ann Coulter's best seller "Demonic."

 

[Wicked Jester]

Apparantly you have assessed the situation correctly as evidenced by Bfgrn's post going off onto tangents other than the root cause....the govt getting involved in the housing market and lending markets throughout the 90's under clinton and continuing keeping on under Bush.

Yes it began with Carter managing to get legislation passed to make it easier for the poor to buy homes. The rules were written in a responsible way at that time, however. In the Clinton administration, the bureaucrats started rewriting the rules and putting pressure for riskier and risker loans on Freddie and Fannie who attempted to minimize their own risk by bundling bad loans with good ones and selling these off to the financial institutions. As the bubble was building, it was highly lucrative and many jumped on the band wagon to get a piece of that pie.

The irresponsible policies continued well into the Bush administration. To his credit President Bush and a few others were sounding the alarm in the last few years before the crash, but the then Democratically controlled Congress continued to support Freddie and Fannie and deny there was a problem. Then when there was an economic downturn, people who had no investment in their homes began defaulting not in the hundrds but in the tens of thousands. And the bubble burst.

So now the Occupy groups blame Wallstreet for the problem. Wallstreet never would have been a problem if it had not been for an irresponsible Congress and bureaucracy. Wallstreet may indeed be guilty of crimes, but the Occupy groups are trying to hang them for a crime they did not commit.

And the Occupy groups are doing that by utter disregard for decency, the law, and the rights and property of others.

Is it the leftist mentality that prompts them to behave that way?

Is there anybody brave enough to tackle that question?

You want to smear anyone with leftist politics based on your "outraged sensibilities" about how some people are behaving at a protest.

Why not simply ask why do people behave this way in a crowd, rather than presuming it's the politics.

We have many examples of peaceful demonstrations by left leaning citizens. Of course, that doesn't fit your prejudice and hatred of people whose politics are different from yours.

I am still shaking my head at your ignorance about Katrina survivors. It sounded very close to racism.

Soooooooo, the lefty idiots of the OWS who are getting increasingly violent by the day are not politically motivated?

The lefty loons who have been continually rioting and killing in Europe for many years are not politically motivated?

Give me a fuckin' break!

 

[Nosmo King]

Noting Bfgm's haste to evoke Godwin's Law to avoid dealing with the thesis.

Anyboy brave enough to deal with it? Anybody at all?

Bullshit you arrogant ass. CLEARLY behavior alone is not an accurate criteria. People who are highly conformist is not the desirable end.

So you are saying that leftism is not a component in the behavior of the Occupy groups? What do you attribute that bad behavior to?

And what do you attribute the courteous, respectful behavior of the Tea Party to?

Making some far flung assumptions there, Foxy! If you think the Tea Party folks display nothing but civil comportment, I suggest you re-visit the 2009 summer town hall meetings. How courteous were those Tea Party folks then?

And the other side of your assumption proffers the notion that the OWS folks are all boorish, ill-mannered louts with no social grace. I suggest such a group would find extremely limited support. And we know that's simply not the case.

I think that any political action taken by ones opponents can safely be presumed to be ill-behaved, discourteous mob action. And that's a poor example of clear thinking.

 

[Sky Dancer]

We could have titled this thread, "What Andrew Klavan does to right wingers."

Same thing Rush, Beck and Coulter do.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Noting Bfgm's haste to evoke Godwin's Law to avoid dealing with the thesis.

Anyboy brave enough to deal with it? Anybody at all?

Bullshit you arrogant ass. CLEARLY behavior alone is not an accurate criteria. People who are highly conformist is not the desirable end.

So you are saying that leftism is not a component in the behavior of the Occupy groups? What do you attribute that bad behavior to?

And what do you attribute the courteous, respectful behavior of the Tea Party to?

Spitting in the face of black politicians, calling them "*******" doesn't seem courteous or respectful to me.

What do you attribute that behavior to? Right wing politics?

Same kind of stupid analogy.

Your posts are all alike. The conclusion is always, "conservatives are superior human beings deserving of being American, liberals are scum."

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Hey its Goodwin....i mean BFGRN

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hey its Goodwin....i mean BFGRN

You must admit that fascism is the ultimate control freak ideology. FF is a control freak.

 

[Sky Dancer]

How do you propose to "check" "leftism"? Demonize every one who is a democrat or a liberal?

Rush has been doing that for decades.

If America is destroyed it will be by fascism, not the free exercise of the right to assembly.

It will be by the FF of the world trying to lock up "dissidents".

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Hey its Goodwin....i mean BFGRN

You must admit that fascism is the ultimate control freak ideology. FF is a control freak.

FF is a liberty lover not a control freak and dishonestly calling her fascist makes your words have less worth than they would have otherwise.

"Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts." -Buddah

 

[paulitician]

Leftism has created millions of people who have a permanent victim-hood & entitlement attitude. They really do believe they're entitled to stealing other Citizens' money. Just talk to an average Left/Democrat and you'll notice very quickly how bitter & irrational they are. We have a nation full of Millions of Entitlement Hounds. And it is the Left/Democrats who created them. Remember,it's always Party before Country for Democrats.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, and the Tea Partiers call themselves Tea Partiers unrelated to the smear tactics and names they are called by those who seem almost desperate to discredit them. And the Occupy groups call themselves by various names themselves and are also assigned crude and offensive names by those who disapprove of them.

And any of us can attach whatever label we deem appropriate to ourselves and accuse our fellow members here of all sorts of sins and motives and put words into people's mouths that they didn't say and thoughts into their heads that they didn't think and deflect and obfusicate and insert red herrings and straw men, try to change the subject ad nauseum, try to start food fights, and hurl personal insults.

And we are still left with Andrew Klavan's observation that it is leftist groups that trash the places where they protest, who get violent, who deface, damage, and destroy public and private property, who terrorize and disrespect the rights of others.

And those on the right don't seem to do that.

So is there something to his thesis that leftism prompts irresponsible and destructive and violent behavior in people in a way that conservatism does not?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Leftism has created millions of people who have a permanent victim-hood & entitlement attitude. They really do believe they're entitled to stealing other Citizens' money. Just talk to an average Left/Democrat and you'll notice very quickly how bitter & irrational they are. We have a nation full of Millions of Entitlement Hounds. And it is the Left/Democrats who created them. Remember,it's always Party before Country for Democrats.

I went to occupy boston 2 times and that was the basic impression I was left with.....except they don't really seem to care about dems/reps they just want the govt to take from one group and give to them. They think the govt is constitutionally required to do so

 

[paulitician]

People really should read Saul Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals.' He lays it out very clearly what you have to do to divide the People. You must create bitterness & jealosy amongst the classes in order to achieve power. That's what Class Warfare is all about. The Democrats follow Alinsky's teachings with fanatic-like zeal. It's all about 'Divide & Conquer' now. May God help us.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Bullshit you arrogant ass. CLEARLY behavior alone is not an accurate criteria. People who are highly conformist is not the desirable end.

So you are saying that leftism is not a component in the behavior of the Occupy groups? What do you attribute that bad behavior to?

And what do you attribute the courteous, respectful behavior of the Tea Party to?

Spitting in the face of black politicians, calling them "*******" doesn't seem courteous or respectful to me.

What do you attribute that behavior to? Right wing politics?

Same kind of stupid analogy.

Your posts are all alike. The conclusion is always, "conservatives are superior human beings deserving of being American, liberals are scum."

And it was CLEARLY shown NOBODY intentionally spit in the face of that race baiting whiner, and there is ZERO evidence of anybody calling him a ******.....But, it has been shown, VERY CLEARLY, that the left continually resorts to violence when they don't get their whiney way.

You cannot dispute it. The evidence is all over the place. Too include the OWS loons becoming increasingly violent during the last several days.

Deal with it!

 

[PoliticalChic]

How do you propose to "check" "leftism"? Demonize every one who is a democrat or a liberal?

Rush has been doing that for decades.

If America is destroyed it will be by fascism, not the free exercise of the right to assembly.

It will be by the FF of the world trying to lock up "dissidents".

‘’’the title Liberal Fascism comes from a speech delivered by H. G. Wells, one of the most important and influential progressive and socialist intellectuals of the 20th century. He wanted to re-brand liberalism as “liberal fascism” and even “enlightened Nazism.” He believed these terms best described his own political views — views that deeply informed American progressivism and New Deal liberalism.

Basically, Wells believed parliamentary democracy is incapable of bringing about a proper political order. Only an authoritarian, technocratic elite can do so. But when the ideal order is realized, it will be in some ways liberal. “One prosperous and progressive world community of just, kindly, free-spirited, freely-thinking, and freely-speaking human beings”. Well, maybe. Accordingly, Wells fits Spencer Ackerman’s characterization: a liberal fascist is one who won’t take his own side in a putsch.
Liberal Fascism: Wings Over the World Edition — Crooked Timber


Comments made by comedian George Carlin on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher that "when fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jackboots. It will be Nike sneakers and smiley shirts. Smiley-smiley."
Liberal Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sky Dancer]

I'm a liberal. I know TONS of liberals, and NONE of us are fascists. Smear campaign. FF thinks people on the right aren't vicious.

To her, Ann Coulter must seem like a little old lady.

 

[EriktheRed]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

Oh yes, "keep this reasonably civil", because stuff like this totally screams civility:

Leftism is bad for people. It makes them awful.

The unwashed, ill-mannered, anti-Semitic, entitled, and now violent mobs littering various parts of the nation under the banner “Occupy” believe their ideas will lead to a better society — but they actually are the society their ideas lead to. Their behavior when compared to the polite, law-abiding, non-racist demonstrations of so-called tea partiers tells you everything you need to know about the end results of statism on the one hand and constitutional liberty on the other.

This is not, of course, to say that every left-winger is a miscreant but rather that the natural, indeed inevitable, result of statism is to produce nations of miscreants. When the state is permitted to make the individual’s moral choices, the individual is forced to become either a slave or a criminal; when the state is permitted to redistribute wealth, it chains the citizen into a rigid, two-tiered hierarchy of power rather than freedom’s fluid, multi-layered rankings of merit and chance; when the people are taught to be dependent on entitlements, they are reduced to violence when, inevitably, the entitlement well runs dry; when belief in the state usurps every higher creed, the people become apathetic, hedonistic, and uncreative and their culture slouches into oblivion.

Spare me this pot/kettle horseshit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Leftism has created millions of people who have a permanent victim-hood & entitlement attitude. They really do believe they're entitled to stealing other Citizens' money. Just talk to an average Left/Democrat and you'll notice very quickly how bitter & irrational they are. We have a nation full of Millions of Entitlement Hounds. And it is the Left/Democrats who created them. Remember,it's always Party before Country for Democrats.

But setting aside for a moment whether or ot we think their grievances are valid, do you see something in leftism that promotes the kind of antisocial, disrespectful, sometimes violent, destructive behavior of the leftists?

And what makes groups like the Tea Partiers, who also have strong grievances, different?