What Is Wrong With America ?

[kaz]

Yep, the gimme's and the warmongers have turned us into a welfare/warfare police state.

.

The problem is that both sides want to bypass the Constitution for what they want from Government, but then the think they can still use the Constitution to block the other side from getting what they want. Every time they both subvert it, they weaken it.

The Founders were right, government sucks, none more so than the Federal government. We are all best served when the Constitution is strong, the Federal Government is weak and then we are free to pursue those things most important to us.

Seeing as how the "federal govt" is a thousand different things, it's naive to say we are all best served when the federal govt is weak. The federal govt includes the military, the DEA, ICE, CBP, the FBI, the VA, et al who I would not ever want to see be weak.

Well, go ahead and call me "naive" ... like the Founders who wrote the document were.

Other than the DEA, which is a cancer on a free country, I like how when liberals are questioned, you go to basic functions of government that even most libertarians support.

Well, you want roads don't you? That means we have government which justifies a massive, socialist welfare State! Bam.

So seriously, having a basic government with roads, military and law enforcement isn't conceivable? You can't see any middle ground between no government and a socialist welfare state that steals trillions from it's citizens and gives it to people who didn't earn it to buy power? If I want roads, I get an authoritarian government?

What I like is when liberals then call "Republicans" black and white and unable to distinguish gray...

 

[protectionist]

Waht do you plan on doing when you grow up?

You have no response to the quote, evidently. Got it.

His response is that you're too stupid to engage in serious debate, junior.

I don't see you doing that, puppy.

 

[protectionist]

Allow me to offer one solution. How about having the Presidency, Congress, Court judges, and Agency officials not be paid (Anything). Have all the jobs done on a volunteer basis, and stop all money input in elections. And all one term only (eliminating the drive to be re-elected)

That's the most idiotic solution ever offered. How are middle class or working class people supposed to serve in Congress if they dont get paid? You complain the country is run by the rich and then propose a policy that will guarantee that happens.
The country has always been run by upper class people. And that isnt a bad thing either. Why would I want some loser who can't figure out how to make millions running the country? He can't even run his own life.

You are clueless. When rich people run the country, they do it in ways based on their own experiences, which severly lack contact with the many problems that middle class and poor people face day in day out. They are simply unequipped to do what they do. They are uneducated in the depths of life. Get it ?

Also, for your edification, there are many well-educated, and very intelligent people who choose to be middle class, rather than become rich at the expense of their immortal souls. For them, taking advantage of people to gain money is unacceptable, so they forgo stepping on toes (common to moneymakers), and eliminate the option of wealth without ethics. I'm one of them. I could have had higher profits, if I had not paid my workers so much as I did. That's OK. I liked it as it was, and I did OK with profits of over $100k/year in the 1980s. I see most of what passes for great "wealth" to be ridiculous anyway. There are different ways to define wealth. Heck, I consider the 4 musical instruments I play (all on a professional level), and the dozens of songs I do on them, to be far more valuable (to me) than any millions of dollars any business might make for me. In fact, the musical ability that I have is unattainable for even some of the richest billionaires in America, and their money could never buy it.

 

[protectionist]

The problem is that both sides want to bypass the Constitution for what they want from Government, but then the think they can still use the Constitution to block the other side from getting what they want. Every time they both subvert it, they weaken it.

The Founders were right, government sucks, none more so than the Federal government. We are all best served when the Constitution is strong, the Federal Government is weak and then we are free to pursue those things most important to us.

Seeing as how the "federal govt" is a thousand different things, it's naive to say we are all best served when the federal govt is weak. The federal govt includes the military, the DEA, ICE, CBP, the FBI, the VA, et al who I would not ever want to see be weak.

Well, go ahead and call me "naive" ... like the Founders who wrote the document were.

Other than the DEA, which is a cancer on a free country, I like how when liberals are questioned, you go to basic functions of government that even most libertarians support.

Well, you want roads don't you? That means we have government which justifies a massive, socialist welfare State! Bam.

So seriously, having a basic government with roads, military and law enforcement isn't conceivable? You can't see any middle ground between no government and a socialist welfare state that steals trillions from it's citizens and gives it to people who didn't earn it to buy power? If I want roads, I get an authoritarian government?

What I like is when liberals then call "Republicans" black and white and unable to distinguish gray...

1. I'm not a "liberal". I happen to be a conservative with many positions that, alongside mine, might leave you looking like Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

2. Who said I want an authoritarian govt ? I didn't.

3. As for going to "basic functions of government that even most libertarians support", you asked for it. You said govt should be weak. Those functions are part of "govt". Got it ?

4. I didn't say anything about a massive. socialist welfare state either. You said that.
Although, I think the concept of a socialist welfare state (or at least some aspects of it) are underrated. There can come a time when ANY OF US may NEED some of that welfare. If you don't think so, I'll be glad to clarify.

 

[The Rabbi]

Allow me to offer one solution. How about having the Presidency, Congress, Court judges, and Agency officials not be paid (Anything). Have all the jobs done on a volunteer basis, and stop all money input in elections. And all one term only (eliminating the drive to be re-elected)

That's the most idiotic solution ever offered. How are middle class or working class people supposed to serve in Congress if they dont get paid? You complain the country is run by the rich and then propose a policy that will guarantee that happens.
The country has always been run by upper class people. And that isnt a bad thing either. Why would I want some loser who can't figure out how to make millions running the country? He can't even run his own life.

You are clueless. When rich people run the country, they do it in ways based on their own experiences, which severly lack contact with the many problems that middle class and poor people face day in day out. They are simply unequipped to do what they do. They are uneducated in the depths of life. Get it ?

Also, for your edification, there are many well-educated, and very intelligent people who choose to be middle class, rather than become rich at the expense of their immortal souls. For them, taking advantage of people to gain money is unacceptable, so they forgo stepping on toes (common to moneymakers), and eliminate the option of wealth without ethics. I'm one of them. I could have had higher profits, if I had not paid my workers so much as I did. That's OK. I liked it as it was, and I did OK with profits of over $100k/year in the 1980s. I see most of what passes for great "wealth" to be ridiculous anyway. There are different ways to define wealth. Heck, I consider the 4 musical instruments I play (all on a professional level), and the dozens of songs I do on them, to be far more valuable (to me) than any millions of dollars any business might make for me. In fact, the musical ability that I have is unattainable for even some of the richest billionaires in America, and their money could never buy it.

You are a world class moron. And you are not fooling anyone claiming to be a conservative. You have fallen for the sympathetic fallacy: no one can understand X unless he also happens to be X.
You are dismissed. Which must be some kind of record for a new poster here.

 

[protectionist]

That's the most idiotic solution ever offered. How are middle class or working class people supposed to serve in Congress if they dont get paid? You complain the country is run by the rich and then propose a policy that will guarantee that happens.
The country has always been run by upper class people. And that isnt a bad thing either. Why would I want some loser who can't figure out how to make millions running the country? He can't even run his own life.

You are clueless. When rich people run the country, they do it in ways based on their own experiences, which severly lack contact with the many problems that middle class and poor people face day in day out. They are simply unequipped to do what they do. They are uneducated in the depths of life. Get it ?

Also, for your edification, there are many well-educated, and very intelligent people who choose to be middle class, rather than become rich at the expense of their immortal souls. For them, taking advantage of people to gain money is unacceptable, so they forgo stepping on toes (common to moneymakers), and eliminate the option of wealth without ethics. I'm one of them. I could have had higher profits, if I had not paid my workers so much as I did. That's OK. I liked it as it was, and I did OK with profits of over $100k/year in the 1980s. I see most of what passes for great "wealth" to be ridiculous anyway. There are different ways to define wealth. Heck, I consider the 4 musical instruments I play (all on a professional level), and the dozens of songs I do on them, to be far more valuable (to me) than any millions of dollars any business might make for me. In fact, the musical ability that I have is unattainable for even some of the richest billionaires in America, and their money could never buy it.

You are a world class moron. And you are not fooling anyone claiming to be a conservative. You have fallen for the sympathetic fallacy: no one can understand X unless he also happens to be X.
You are dismissed. Which must be some kind of record for a new poster here.

I doubt if you even have any idea what a REAL Conservative is. Most under 40 don't, because their whole lives have been after the illustrious pseudo-conservative, Reagan came along and singlehandedly changed the entire definition of the idea of conservative. Conservative is conserving the culture and values of America as they have been. If. like Reagan, you support the idea of a small, weak govt, over the idea of a big strong one, and you favor Reagan's (movie star) tax of 28%, you're not even close to being a conservative. It's because of guys like you that we don't have enough ICE agents, CBP officers, immigration courts and jails, and the Mexican border fence doesn't get built. And they won't, with all the pseudo-conservatives Reaganists running around calling for low taxes on the rich, spending cuts on just about everything, and amnesty (like Reagan did), so they can feed their greed, by boosting their profits with cheap labor Mexicans.
In contrast, a REAL conservative, like the guy in my avatar, had a 92% tax on the rich, drove the Mexican back to Mexico with Operation ******* in 1954, and commanded Allied forces in Europe in world War II (while pseudo-conservative Reagan was in Hollywood, making movies about it. And you can be sure if Ike were here now, we wouldn't have 11 million illegal aliens ruining our economy and culture, nor would we have the military fiascos we've been having, or the lack of FBI agents, CIA agents, DEA, ATF, etc., with phony "conservatives" yammering about cutting their budgets, hereby endangering national security(and doing it)

Oh yeah, we can talk about being a conservative, all right. You bet!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/321591-shouldn-t-islam-be-banned-in-the-usa.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...nvasion-of-the-united-states-1950-2012-a.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/europ...r-britain-to-reinstate-the-death-penalty.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...es-remarks-backed-up-by-al-qaeda-in-iraq.html

Like I said, some so-called "conservatives" might look like Ruth Bader Ginsberg, next to my REAL Conservatism.

 

[Contumacious]

Conservative is conserving the culture and values of America as they have been.

Bullshit.

That may have been their position prior to the 1935 FDR coup d' etat, but afterwards they became another group of "librals" who want to rule us in the name of god.

.

 

[Whig_Out]

First and foremost: Our education system needs a major revamping.
Second: Look at the complete total morons who are so vocal about things. Look at this forum and the top topics. IDIOTS.

 

[Contumacious]

First and foremost: Our education system needs a major revamping.
.

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state.

–Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

 

[The Rabbi]

You are clueless. When rich people run the country, they do it in ways based on their own experiences, which severly lack contact with the many problems that middle class and poor people face day in day out. They are simply unequipped to do what they do. They are uneducated in the depths of life. Get it ?

Also, for your edification, there are many well-educated, and very intelligent people who choose to be middle class, rather than become rich at the expense of their immortal souls. For them, taking advantage of people to gain money is unacceptable, so they forgo stepping on toes (common to moneymakers), and eliminate the option of wealth without ethics. I'm one of them. I could have had higher profits, if I had not paid my workers so much as I did. That's OK. I liked it as it was, and I did OK with profits of over $100k/year in the 1980s. I see most of what passes for great "wealth" to be ridiculous anyway. There are different ways to define wealth. Heck, I consider the 4 musical instruments I play (all on a professional level), and the dozens of songs I do on them, to be far more valuable (to me) than any millions of dollars any business might make for me. In fact, the musical ability that I have is unattainable for even some of the richest billionaires in America, and their money could never buy it.

You are a world class moron. And you are not fooling anyone claiming to be a conservative. You have fallen for the sympathetic fallacy: no one can understand X unless he also happens to be X.
You are dismissed. Which must be some kind of record for a new poster here.

I doubt if you even have any idea what a REAL Conservative is. Most under 40 don't, because their whole lives have been after the illustrious pseudo-conservative, Reagan came along and singlehandedly changed the entire definition of the idea of conservative. Conservative is conserving the culture and values of America as they have been. If. like Reagan, you support the idea of a small, weak govt, over the idea of a big strong one, and you favor Reagan's (movie star) tax of 28%, you're not even close to being a conservative. It's because of guys like you that we don't have enough ICE agents, CBP officers, immigration courts and jails, and the Mexican border fence doesn't get built. And they won't, with all the pseudo-conservatives Reaganists running around calling for low taxes on the rich, spending cuts on just about everything, and amnesty (like Reagan did), so they can feed their greed, by boosting their profits with cheap labor Mexicans.
In contrast, a REAL conservative, like the guy in my avatar, had a 92% tax on the rich, drove the Mexican back to Mexico with Operation ******* in 1954, and commanded Allied forces in Europe in world War II (while pseudo-conservative Reagan was in Hollywood, making movies about it. And you can be sure if Ike were here now, we wouldn't have 11 million illegal aliens ruining our economy and culture, nor would we have the military fiascos we've been having, or the lack of FBI agents, CIA agents, DEA, ATF, etc., with phony "conservatives" yammering about cutting their budgets, hereby endangering national security(and doing it)

Oh yeah, we can talk about being a conservative, all right. You bet!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/321591-shouldn-t-islam-be-banned-in-the-usa.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...nvasion-of-the-united-states-1950-2012-a.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/europ...r-britain-to-reinstate-the-death-penalty.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...es-remarks-backed-up-by-al-qaeda-in-iraq.html

Like I said, some so-called "conservatives" might look like Ruth Bader Ginsberg, next to my REAL Conservatism.

You're a statist bigot. Yeah, we get it.
fwiw, I'm well over 40. You?

 

[OKTexas]

Unquestionably true, HOWEVER, the same could be said about super rich business owners in respect to that they freeload off their workers, by taking money that should go to those workers, and have a pompous attitude that because they create a company with their wealth (which in many cases was dumped on them by daddy), that therefore THEY are the only important part of the company, and they are owed the lion's share (never mind that their workers often risk, and sometimes lose, their lives doing their jobs)

Waht do you plan on doing when you grow up?

You have no response to the quote, evidently. Got it.

The response was adequate for the childish view you hold. It's very obvious you've never signed the front of a paycheck. After you do, get back to me.

 

[jasonnfree]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

It's voting system.

The voting system is designed to create a maintain a two headed monster.

Very true. I'd like to see 10 candidates running for president of the USA, all independents, all no names that no one ever heard of before, and all having an equal financial input for promotion of themselves. Sound interesting ?

I think a better and more workable idea is to have public funded elections. Each candidate gets a certain amount of exposure courtesy of the tax payers. Any violation of this rule means mandatory prison time of say three years , no exception. If we could get that far maybe we could have periodic lie detector tests for politicians. "Did you vote yes on that bill after being promised a reward from xyz corporation, Senator"? Maybe have the lie detector sessions televised for public airing. Make these guys honest I hope.
I was subjected to that as a fry cook at one place. A politician can steal far more than a restaurant worker that's for sure.

 

[protectionist]

Conservative is conserving the culture and values of America as they have been.

Bullshit.

That may have been their position prior to the 1935 FDR coup d' etat, but afterwards they became another group of "librals" who want to rule us in the name of god.

.

Bullshit yourself.

The 1930s weren't the turning point. The 1980s were. And it all come from the wishes of one man, and the influence of his massively paid movie industry greed freaks. Together, they turned the country upside down, cutting the ground out from under homeland security, infrastructure, and every other necessary program, with all their small, weak govt (kaz said it herself right here) ideas. Don't believe it ? Click the link, and look at US taxes on the top bracket before and after Reagan.

National Taxpayers Union - History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates

 

[protectionist]

First and foremost: Our education system needs a major revamping.
.

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state.

–Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

I attended compulsory public school for years. When I graduated, I didn't see a single person advocating a totalitarian state, except a couple of Muslim loons.

 

[protectionist]

You are a world class moron. And you are not fooling anyone claiming to be a conservative. You have fallen for the sympathetic fallacy: no one can understand X unless he also happens to be X.
You are dismissed. Which must be some kind of record for a new poster here.

I doubt if you even have any idea what a REAL Conservative is. Most under 40 don't, because their whole lives have been after the illustrious pseudo-conservative, Reagan came along and singlehandedly changed the entire definition of the idea of conservative. Conservative is conserving the culture and values of America as they have been. If. like Reagan, you support the idea of a small, weak govt, over the idea of a big strong one, and you favor Reagan's (movie star) tax of 28%, you're not even close to being a conservative. It's because of guys like you that we don't have enough ICE agents, CBP officers, immigration courts and jails, and the Mexican border fence doesn't get built. And they won't, with all the pseudo-conservatives Reaganists running around calling for low taxes on the rich, spending cuts on just about everything, and amnesty (like Reagan did), so they can feed their greed, by boosting their profits with cheap labor Mexicans.
In contrast, a REAL conservative, like the guy in my avatar, had a 92% tax on the rich, drove the Mexican back to Mexico with Operation ******* in 1954, and commanded Allied forces in Europe in world War II (while pseudo-conservative Reagan was in Hollywood, making movies about it. And you can be sure if Ike were here now, we wouldn't have 11 million illegal aliens ruining our economy and culture, nor would we have the military fiascos we've been having, or the lack of FBI agents, CIA agents, DEA, ATF, etc., with phony "conservatives" yammering about cutting their budgets, hereby endangering national security(and doing it)

Oh yeah, we can talk about being a conservative, all right. You bet!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/321591-shouldn-t-islam-be-banned-in-the-usa.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...nvasion-of-the-united-states-1950-2012-a.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/europ...r-britain-to-reinstate-the-death-penalty.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...es-remarks-backed-up-by-al-qaeda-in-iraq.html

Like I said, some so-called "conservatives" might look like Ruth Bader Ginsberg, next to my REAL Conservatism.

You're a statist bigot. Yeah, we get it.
fwiw, I'm well over 40. You?

I'm 67. Eisenhower was president when I was in elementary school, and I was a supporter of his. In everything from his Operation *******, to his strong support of the military and law enforcement, to his creation of the interstate highway system (et al infrastructure), to my "I like Ike" button, I supported his REAL Conservatism, and didn't get one bit fooled by Reagan and his FALSE version of it.

So would you call Ike a "Statist" ? He was for govt of the people, by the people, for the people. And in return, the people were for him. They elected him president of the US twice.

As for your laughingstock statement calling me a "bigot", if you think you have one iota of evidence to support that, let's hear it.

 

[Indeependent]

First and foremost: Our education system needs a major revamping.
.

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state.

–Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

I attended compulsory public school for years. When I graduated, I didn't see a single person advocating a totalitarian state, except a couple of Muslim loons.

Congratulations!
You presented an entire line of thought and were thus immediately dismissed by one of the biggest one dimensional dimwits on the board...The Rabbi.

 

[protectionist]

Waht do you plan on doing when you grow up?

You have no response to the quote, evidently. Got it.

The response was adequate for the childish view you hold. It's very obvious you've never signed the front of a paycheck. After you do, get back to me.

I signed paychecks for 12 years as owner of my own business (as I already stated a few posts ago). What the matter ? Your reading glasses fogging up ?

As for "childish" >> Yeah ? So another name caller, huh ? Well, this thread is just jumping leaps and bounds with distinguished posters. Like I challenged that other empty box, when you think you have some substance (it's called evidence), let's hear it. (get back to me) Hint: names don't rate.

 

[protectionist]

It's voting system.

The voting system is designed to create a maintain a two headed monster.

Very true. I'd like to see 10 candidates running for president of the USA, all independents, all no names that no one ever heard of before, and all having an equal financial input for promotion of themselves. Sound interesting ?

I think a better and more workable idea is to have public funded elections. Each candidate gets a certain amount of exposure courtesy of the tax payers. Any violation of this rule means mandatory prison time of say three years , no exception. If we could get that far maybe we could have periodic lie detector tests for politicians. "Did you vote yes on that bill after being promised a reward from xyz corporation, Senator"? Maybe have the lie detector sessions televised for public airing. Make these guys honest I hope.
I was subjected to that as a fry cook at one place. A politician can steal far more than a restaurant worker that's for sure.

Finally, somebody with something worthwhile and interesting to say. Good post.

 

[protectionist]

Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state.

–Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

I attended compulsory public school for years. When I graduated, I didn't see a single person advocating a totalitarian state, except a couple of Muslim loons.

Congratulations!
You presented an entire line of thought and were thus immediately dismissed by one of the biggest one dimensional dimwits on the board...The Rabbi.

Thanks. I'm actually quite used to being complimented, by being disparaged by fools.

 

[DiamondDave]

the government has come to be too much influenced by special interests and the wealthy. We are heading over a cliff if something isn't done quickly and one of those things would be to tax the wealthy more to pay down the debt.

Eisenhower had a top rate of 91% we probably dont need it that high but should take it to 65-70%
A tax on Wall Street transactions should also be imposed.

Nobody should owe any sort of % of that nature to any government.. government does not exist for your redistribution dreams

And perhaps, just perhaps, before spouting off about some 90+or 60+% rate, you should look at what was counted as income then, deductible then, etc. The effective rate for the top is actually not much different today than it was then...

What should be is equality in treatment across the board, regardless to age, race, sex, creed, income, situation, or whatever else... funny how equality in treatment, to a liberal, only counts when it benefits you.. but unequal treatment of someone else is ok, when it also benefits the liberal

the wealthy pay no more on their first $15000 say then anyone else. Who else are you going to get the money from? Paying down the debt benefits EVERYBODY not just me, not just "liberals" a term I reject.

A rising tax on the wealthy will lift all boats

Graduated rates equals rates different on total income.. is there a difference between dollar #14 and dollar #198314?? No... You SUBJECTIVELY FEEL it means more to a person

Everyone should be treated equally, not just equally when it benefits YOU

Spend less, tax equally, audit the fed...

Your sloganeering is ludicrous