CDZ What is "Conservative"- Conservatives please

[airplanemechanic]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

That's not Conservatism, that's Anarchy.

No its not. Anarchy is no one in charge, no gov't at all. Minimal gov't involvement doesn't mean no military, no laws, etc. It means free market, no gov't run health care, no gov't run anything other than what the constitution mandates.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Individual liberty is an undefined term. What does it mean, liberty for whom, liberty to do what?

Yes it is. Very much defined:

the liberty of an individual to exercise freely those rights generally accepted as being outside of governmental control.

Individual liberty Define Individual liberty at Dictionary.com

 

[dblack]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

The problem i have with this statement is that 'conservatives' do not seem to support the above as soon as you start to get into 'immorality.'

Conservatives have abandoned the idea of maximal freedom and liberty for the ideal of enforcing moral standards that require massive government involvement.

What?! No way! Conservatives are for freedom. They love freedom!

Everybody "loves freedom" - their own. But what mattes is how much they're willing to respect the freedom of others. And I haven't found conservatives to be much better at that than liberals.

 

[airplanemechanic]

When someone's "freedom" interferes with a babys right to life, yea, some "conservatives" might get a little up in arms about that.

So it all comes back to liberals "freedoms" of others. They're fine with a moms freedom to kill a baby, but that babys freedom and right to life don't mean a damn thing to liberals.

That causes a little ruffle amongst the feathers of conservatives who happen to love babies.

 

[regent]

Individual liberty is an undefined term. What does it mean, liberty for whom, liberty to do what?

Yes it is. Very much defined:

the liberty of an individual to exercise freely those rights generally accepted as being outside of governmental control.

Individual liberty Define Individual liberty at Dictionary.com

So my freedom and liberty have to be generally accepted or I cannot exercise them, correct? So where do I find the definition for generally accepted?

 

[airplanemechanic]

Killing babies under the auspices of "freedom" is something a lot of people have issues with. Why are you asking me this shit? You go figure it out.

 

[FA_Q2]

When someone's "freedom" interferes with a babys right to life, yea, some "conservatives" might get a little up in arms about that.

So it all comes back to liberals "freedoms" of others. They're fine with a moms freedom to kill a baby, but that babys freedom and right to life don't mean a damn thing to liberals.

That causes a little ruffle amongst the feathers of conservatives who happen to love babies.

and conservatives always like to jump on that particular bandwagon while ignoring THE ENTIRE BIBLE BELT where dry counties still exist. Where laws against opening your business or requiring someone to work on Sundays exist. Or they like to ignore the wide support that conservative law makers enjoyed for the creation of the PA. I hear so called conservatives claim that if you have nothing to hide them you should not care that the government is not seeking a warrant. You know how often I have heard that from liberals? Never.

Conservatives want to control what you put in your body as well. Modern conservatives believing in freedom? Not a chance. Conservatives may have a different set of controls they want the government to exercise over everyone but they are still there and just as prevalent as the liberals.

 

[Darkwind]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

The problem i have with this statement is that 'conservatives' do not seem to support the above as soon as you start to get into 'immorality.'

Conservatives have abandoned the idea of maximal freedom and liberty for the ideal of enforcing moral standards that require massive government involvement.

Quite simply, you are not talking about conservatives, but some members of the GOP and some sects of evangelists.

Conservatives do not believe in using government to foster their own moral beliefs. In fact, the best way to foster a conservative belief is to remove government from as many aspects of the citizens lives as possible. Conservatives lead by example and surround themselves with people who have similar beliefs. They can, through this way, develop whole communities and even cities that follow the principles of self discipline, personal responsibility, and maximum freedom.

Those who think that government should tell people who they can have sex with, who they can associate with, who they must agree with, are really nothing more than progressives in morality.

Smaller, restricted government that is fiscally balanced (meaning budgetary balance, not balanced in helping people for government does not exist to help the individual) and unyielding in our defense to the world and our enemies..

 

[Darkwind]

When someone's "freedom" interferes with a babys right to life, yea, some "conservatives" might get a little up in arms about that.

So it all comes back to liberals "freedoms" of others. They're fine with a moms freedom to kill a baby, but that babys freedom and right to life don't mean a damn thing to liberals.

That causes a little ruffle amongst the feathers of conservatives who happen to love babies.

and conservatives always like to jump on that particular bandwagon while ignoring THE ENTIRE BIBLE BELT where dry counties still exist. Where laws against opening your business or requiring someone to work on Sundays exist. Or they like to ignore the wide support that conservative law makers enjoyed for the creation of the PA. I hear so called conservatives claim that if you have nothing to hide them you should not care that the government is not seeking a warrant. You know how often I have heard that from liberals? Never.

Conservatives want to control what you put in your body as well. Modern conservatives believing in freedom? Not a chance. Conservatives may have a different set of controls they want the government to exercise over everyone but they are still there and just as prevalent as the liberals.

That is called states rights. Conservatives will create communities of like minded values and character. If these values are not yours, you are welcome to join a community that does have like minded values. However, there should never be a law the controls morality and dry laws or blue laws are wrong.

 

[FA_Q2]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

The problem i have with this statement is that 'conservatives' do not seem to support the above as soon as you start to get into 'immorality.'

Conservatives have abandoned the idea of maximal freedom and liberty for the ideal of enforcing moral standards that require massive government involvement.

Quite simply, you are not talking about conservatives, but some members of the GOP and some sects of evangelists.

Conservatives do not believe in using government to foster their own moral beliefs. In fact, the best way to foster a conservative belief is to remove government from as many aspects of the citizens lives as possible. Conservatives lead by example and surround themselves with people who have similar beliefs. They can, through this way, develop whole communities and even cities that follow the principles of self discipline, personal responsibility, and maximum freedom.

Those who think that government should tell people who they can have sex with, who they can associate with, who they must agree with, are really nothing more than progressives in morality.

Smaller, restricted government that is fiscally balanced (meaning budgetary balance, not balanced in helping people for government does not exist to help the individual) and unyielding in our defense to the world and our enemies..

I am referring to the GOP. The so called party of the conservatives and who most of those that call themselves conservatives claim to vote for here.

What you state is clearly not the actual beliefs of most of the 'conservatives' here even if that is what they claim to support.

 

[airplanemechanic]

A true conservative supports the rights of the people to freely elect their lawmakers. If their lawmakers pass laws making a particular county dry, that is their right. As is passing laws prohibiting working on Sundays.

So yea, conservatives would support that.

What I, as a libertarian do not support, is someone telling me that I have to buy something, like health insurance. That's unconstitutional at its core. The constitution does not grant the gov't the right to make its citizens buy anything. So that means its unconstitutional. And 4 supreme court justices agree with me.

 

[asaratis]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

Individual liberty is an undefined term. What does it mean, liberty for whom, liberty to do what?
Is minimal government involvement dependent on which party, liberal or conservative is in power? For example liberals after our Revolution were for minimum government involvement, then when they became the government, they seemed to have changed.

Classic liberalism is today's conservatism.

Today's liberalism is classic socialism/Marxism/communism.

I'm a conservative hawk that opposes collectivism, a weak military, higher taxes, government run economy and the entitlement sentimentality of the liberal left.

Work for your living..don't vote for it.

Liberalism is a mental disorder...treatable but deadly if left to its own devices.

 

[FA_Q2]

A true conservative supports the rights of the people to freely elect their lawmakers. If their lawmakers pass laws making a particular county dry, that is their right. As is passing laws prohibiting working on Sundays.

So yea, conservatives would support that.

What I, as a libertarian do not support, is someone telling me that I have to buy something, like health insurance. That's unconstitutional at its core. The constitution does not grant the gov't the right to make its citizens buy anything. So that means its unconstitutional. And 4 supreme court justices agree with me.

That would mean that the concept of natural rights is non-existant in a conservative world then.

 

[initforme]

Today's conservatives believe in
A). not getting an education. You can make it without.
b) labor is a bad thing. CEOs are to be worshipped
c). social security is a ponzi scheme, Medicare is bad

Right now, that describes the conservatives.

 

[dblack]

Today's conservatives believe in
A). not getting an education. You can make it without.
b) labor is a bad thing. CEOs are to be worshipped
c). social security is a ponzi scheme, Medicare is bad

Right now, that describes the conservatives.

I dunno. I suppose there are actually conservatives who think education is bad, business is always good, etc... But what you're doing is interpreting opposition to government intervention in these things as the equivalent of opposition to the underlying value.

Opposing government control of education isn't the same as opposing education.
Opposing government intervention in the economy isn't the same as CEO worship.
Opposing welfare isn't the same as opposing caring for the poor.

We can educate our children, keep businesses in check, and care for our neighbors without getting the police involved.

 

[zeke]

A true conservative supports the rights of the people to freely elect their lawmakers. If their lawmakers pass laws making a particular county dry, that is their right. As is passing laws prohibiting working on Sundays.

So yea, conservatives would support that.

What I, as a libertarian do not support, is someone telling me that I have to buy something, like health insurance. That's unconstitutional at its core. The constitution does not grant the gov't the right to make its citizens buy anything. So that means its unconstitutional. And 4 supreme court justices agree with me.

Elected lawmakers can tell business's not to open on Sunday based on some interpretation in the Bible about the Sabbath. And that's ok.

But elected lawmakers are all wrong if requiring people to be responsible enough to fund at least part of their own health insurance? And that's all wrong.

OK . You must be a con man if you think that's correct.

BTW the COTUS doesn't say not to open a business on Sunday now does it?

 

[protectionist]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

I think that has noting to do with Conservatism. What you suggest is Reaganism (which is not Conservatism)

 

[protectionist]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

The problem i have with this statement is that 'conservatives' do not seem to support the above as soon as you start to get into 'immorality.'

Conservatives have abandoned the idea of maximal freedom and liberty for the ideal of enforcing moral standards that require massive government involvement.

You don't get morality without law enforcement which is both conservatism and massive govt involvement. This is where the small, weak govt, Reaganists go wrong. Keep going with a small, weak govt, and before you know it, you may be looking at an Islamic state.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

I think that has noting to do with Conservatism. What you suggest is Reaganism (which is not Conservatism)

I think you don't have a clue. In fact, I know it

 

[protectionist]

* Maximum individual liberty
* Minimal government involvement

Individual liberty is an undefined term. What does it mean, liberty for whom, liberty to do what?
Is minimal government involvement dependent on which party, liberal or conservative is in power? For example liberals after our Revolution were for minimum government involvement, then when they became the government, they seemed to have changed.

Classic liberalism is today's conservatism.

Today's liberalism is classic socialism/Marxism/communism.

I'm a conservative hawk that opposes collectivism, a weak military, higher taxes, government run economy and the entitlement sentimentality of the liberal left.

Work for your living..don't vote for it.

Liberalism is a mental disorder...treatable but deadly if left to its own devices.

You oppose a weak military at a time when we have an anti-military (if not traitorous) president, who is the epitome of a weak military, and our military has been weakened severely.

You also oppose higher taxes at a time when taxes (on the rich) are at one of the lowest levels they've been over the past 95 years.

Allowing for some cutting of govt waste, it still sounds like you might have a tough row to hoe.