Zone1 What Is All This "Christian Nation" Stuff?

[Robert W]

We've argued this on another thread. Trump has the best instincts I've ever witnessed in how to identify and solve problems and negotiate a deal. Zelensky has so far resisted any effort to reach a peace agreement and that is why Trump chose to ignore him until he is ready to deal and negotiate. If Zelensky had made any effort to actually work out a deal all could live with, he would have been fully included.

However this thread is about a nation built on Christian values and concepts and how that makes it a great country for non Christians as well as Christians. How about we focus on that here and do the discussion on the Russia/Ukraine war on threads appropriate for that?

I have to recall what thread you are talking about. I recall what you say however.
This is about jesus.

 

[Robert W]

that would only be the southern turncoat, slave owning christian fundamentalist in their wild dreams they somehow were vested in heavenly attributes using their christian bible as reason to start the civil war and continue the persecution and victimization of the innocent.

- or fear for their own safety.

The South did not start the war. That is the myth sold to us all by the North. Matter of fact Lincoln invaded VA to start the war and they were not involved at all in Ft. Sumter.

The South's intentions were to shift away from the North to keep owning slaves.

 

[Robert W]

What happens when “Caesar” decides too much of your money and property needs to be rendered him?

I classify Democrats as Caesar for close to 100 years at least.

 

[Robert W]

I would rather wait to see if he can engineer a conclusion to that war before I complain about how he does it.

Eye on the prize kinda thing.

That is a good idea. I will try to hold off my judgement till we see if he gets it done or not.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Wall Street Journal

https://www.wsj.com › world › white-house-and-ukraine-close-in-on-deal-for-mineral-rights-e924c672

White House and Ukraine Close In on Deal for Mineral Rights​

3 days agoThe U.S. and Ukraine are near a deal to hand valuable mineral rights to the U.S., an agreement the Trump administration has sought as compensation for military aid to fight off Russia's invasion ...

President Trump usually knows what he is doing even when his methods seem to be unorthodox or even contradictory to the goal.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The South did not start the war. That is the myth sold to us all by the North. Matter of fact Lincoln invaded VA to start the war and they were not involved at all in Ft. Sumter.

The South's intentions were to shift away from the North to keep owning slaves.

Now, now......the Confederacy (Democrats) started the war.


Let's begin here: the South went to war.

1. Major Robert Anderson and 85 men were stranded in Fort Sumter.

2. Surrounding him were hundreds of militiamen and coastal guns.

3. Lincoln refused to give the fort up, but the fort was running out of food: if he sent a supply convoy into Charleston Bay, he would be blamed for starting the war.....but how could he give in, and give up the fort?

4. William Seward tried to undermine Lincoln....telling Lincoln to give up the fort for 'goodwill.'

5. On April 5, Lincoln dispatched a fleet of supply ships with the proviso that was relayed to Jefferson Davis: the vessels would be unarmed, with the only cargo "food for hungry men."

6. Firing on the defenseless ships would have been an act of war by the Confederacy.

7. On Tuesday, April 9, Davis held a cabinet meeting, deciding on war. Three days later, and hours before the ships would arrive....the Southern forces attacked the fort.
Gavin Mortimer
"Double Death: The True Story of Pryce Lewis, the Civil War's Most Daring Spy,"byGavin Mortimer, p.70-71
The First Battle of Fort Sumter opened on April 12, 1861, when Confederate artillery fired on the Union garrisonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sumter

P.G.T. Beauregard - HISTORY
www.history.com › topics › american-civil-war › pgt-b...

In this role he ordered the first shots of the Civil War during the bombardment of Fort Sumter (April 12-14, 1861). After his success in taking Fort ...



The Confederacy believed that they held the trump card: the world's strongest naval power, England would have to join them in a war due to the need for the South's cotton.

Whether or not they imagined that they could defeat the North militarily,they fervently believed that they could oblige....compel... the greatest military power in the world to back them."



Here are some facts that make it clear:


a. 75% of the world's cotton, and up to 84% of Britain's, came from the South's cotton fields. The Cotton Economy in the South FREE The Cotton Economy in the South information Encyclopedia.com Find The Cotton Economy in the South research

b. In Britain's industrial heartland, where all but 500 of the country's 2,650 cotton factories, employing 440 000 people, were located, and almost all of the cotton came from the Southern United States. A history of the Lancashire cotton mills

c. "In 1861 the London Times estimated that one fifth of the British population was dependent, directly or indirectly, on the success of the cotton districts." "Double Death: The True Story of Pryce Lewis, the Civil War's Most Daring Spy,"byGavin Mortimer, p.72

 

[Woodznutz]

No, I would suggest that they are still 'Christians', but in my opinion and in the opinions of the other Christiand churches, they are compromised Christians.

There can't be Darwinian evolution and all the creation baloney too, as is being promoted by the CC.

I'm always interested in hearing Catholics trying to make the contradictions work. Let's do it all over again!

Well, maybe some Catholics can weigh in.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have to recall what thread you are talking about. I recall what you say however.
This is about jesus.

Interesting. The lovely lady talks about going to a 'black Catholic church'. As the commentator points out what even is that? Isn't it interesting that those who most demand that DEI be the law of the land don't see a problem with a 'black Catholic church'? Where's the DEI in that?

Christianity in its purest form is a religion of invitation and opportunity, not dictates and demands. And when practiced according to traditional values provides a safe place for people of all beliefs and traditions to peacefully co-exist without interfering with each other. That is what freedom of religion is supposed to be all about.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Please post before you begin drinking.

Cite anything wrong in my post pendejo.

 

[Woodznutz]

It never was.

Washington, Franklin welcomed Jews, and I recall reading something along those lines re: Muslims.


AI Overview
Learn more

View attachment 1082810
Yes, George Washington welcomed Jews and other religious groups to the United States by supporting freedom of worship and religious liberty.

Explanation

• In 1790, Washington wrote a letter to the Hebrew Congregation in Newport, Rhode Island. In the letter, he:
  • Stated that the new nation would not sanction bigotry or assist persecution
    
    
  • Assured that the government would not interfere with religious beliefs
    
    
  • Embraced the idea that religious liberty is a natural right
    
    
  • Quoted the Bible's Old Testament to reassure that people would be able to worship in safety
• Washington's letter is considered a stepping stone to the First Amendment, which was passed in 1791.
  
  
• Washington's support of religious liberty led other religious communities to seek his affirmation. For example, a Jewish congregation in Savannah, Georgia, praised Washington for his "unexampled liberality".
  
  
• Washington was the first head of a modern nation to openly acknowledge Jews as full citizens.

The founders wrote checks that the people couldn't cash.

 

[Woodznutz]

Interesting. The lovely lady talks about going to a 'black Catholic church'. As the commentator points out what even is that? Isn't it interesting that those who most demand that DEI be the law of the land don't see a problem with a 'black Catholic church'? Where's the DEI in that?

Christianity in its purest form is a religion of invitation and opportunity, not dictates and demands. And when practiced according to traditional values provides a safe place for people of all beliefs and traditions to peacefully co-exist without interfering with each other. That is what freedom of religion is supposed to be all about.

Wrong. Christianity is a very exclusive religion that doesn't welcome others. Others are welcome into Christianity if they abandon their idolatrous beliefs. The devil sow's tares into the wheatfield, the wheatfield doesn't welcome them gladly.

 

[Foxfyre]

Wrong. Christianity is a very exclusive religion that doesn't welcome others. Others are welcome into Christianity if they abandon their idolatrous beliefs. The devil sow's tares into the wheatfield, the wheatfield doesn't welcome them gladly.

You know little if anything about the Christian faith. A pity.

YI have been a Christian for a very long time now and circumstances have given me opportunity to worship with many different denominations from the most fundamentalist to Roman Catholics to Episcopalians/Anglicans to Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Baptists, Presbyterians, to Native American ceremonies to charismatics etc. etc. And in not one of those did I see anybody made unwelcome because they were not of that denomination or were not Christian.

 

[Woodznutz]

You know little if anything about the Christian faith. A pity.

YI have been a Christian for a very long time now and circumstances have given me opportunity to worship with many different denominations from the most fundamentalist to Roman Catholics to Episcopalians/Anglicans to Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Baptists, Presbyterians, to Native American ceremonies to charismatics etc. etc. And in not one of those did I see anybody made unwelcome because they were not of that denomination or were not Christian.

People are always welcome to attend Christian church services as long as they don't bring heresies and idolatry with them. Most traditional denominations are pretty strict with their beliefs and doctrines, however there are unassociated liberal 'ministries' that welcome all sorts of goofy beliefs.

 

[BackAgain]

Op, some documentation to prove your contentions about Christianity and the founding fathers would nice. Short of that I don't believe you.

Her evidence was posted extensively in the OP, genius.

I happen not to care for a description of our nation as being “Christian,” but only because it is a slightly ambiguous phrase which can cause confusion.

It is obviously true that we, as a nation, have Christian roots.

Nevertheless, we also took pains to carefully insure that faith was not a necessary component of living here or working in and for our government. So, I don’t believe that the U.S. “is” a “Christian” nation.
But it seems very likely that many (most) of our people identify today as Christians.

 

[Foxfyre]

People are always welcome to attend Christian church services as long as they don't bring heresies and idolatry with them. Most traditional denominations are pretty strict with their beliefs and doctrines, however there are unassociated liberal 'ministries' that welcome all sorts of goofy beliefs.

I would think it terrible manners to bring Baptist theology into a Catholic Mass or for those embracing charismatic services to demonstrate that in an old traditional Methodist church service or whatever.

Courtesy and good manners generally make all people welcome almost everywhere.

 

[fncceo]

Christianity is a very exclusive religion that doesn't welcome others.

If you put the money in the collection plate and can fog a mirror ... you're in.

 

[Woodznutz]

Her evidence was posted extensively in the OP, genius.

I happen not to care for a description of our nation as being “Christian,” but only because it is a slightly ambiguous phrase which can cause confusion.

It is obviously true that we, as a nation, have Christian roots.

Nevertheless, we also took pains to carefully insure that faith was not a necessary component of living here or working in and for our government. So, I don’t believe that the U.S. “is” a “Christian” nation.
But it seems very likely that many (most) of our people identify today as Christians.

If a "nation" is defined by its people, and most are Christian, then it follows that we are a Christian nation regardless of pleas to the contrary. All the Constitutions really says is that the State shall not impose or require a religious belief for citizenship.

It is noteworthy that historically some Muslim countries have allowed other religions, but those nations still remain "Islamic" nations.

 

[Robert W]

Interesting. The lovely lady talks about going to a 'black Catholic church'. As the commentator points out what even is that? Isn't it interesting that those who most demand that DEI be the law of the land don't see a problem with a 'black Catholic church'? Where's the DEI in that?

Christianity in its purest form is a religion of invitation and opportunity, not dictates and demands. And when practiced according to traditional values provides a safe place for people of all beliefs and traditions to peacefully co-exist without interfering with each other. That is what freedom of religion is supposed to be all about.

I have attended various churches but spent most of my life as a devout LDS. We worship Jesus Christ every day. I got upset when one pastor criticised the LDS and I never went back to listen to him again. His job was not to run down the LDS but explain the teachings of Jesus. Jesus never would have criticized the church I spent my live attending.

 

[Woodznutz]

If you put the money in the collection plate and can fog a mirror ... you're in.

View attachment 1082889

But keep their idolatry and disbelief to themselves. Noteworthy as well is that many "unchurched" join for the handouts, the "Christian charity". When they exhaust the charity, they disappear, likely going to yet another church, rinse and repeat.

 

[Robert W]

Now, now......the Confederacy (Democrats) started the war.


Let's begin here: the South went to war.

1. Major Robert Anderson and 85 men were stranded in Fort Sumter.

2. Surrounding him were hundreds of militiamen and coastal guns.

3. Lincoln refused to give the fort up, but the fort was running out of food: if he sent a supply convoy into Charleston Bay, he would be blamed for starting the war.....but how could he give in, and give up the fort?

4. William Seward tried to undermine Lincoln....telling Lincoln to give up the fort for 'goodwill.'

5. On April 5, Lincoln dispatched a fleet of supply ships with the proviso that was relayed to Jefferson Davis: the vessels would be unarmed, with the only cargo "food for hungry men."

6. Firing on the defenseless ships would have been an act of war by the Confederacy.

7. On Tuesday, April 9, Davis held a cabinet meeting, deciding on war. Three days later, and hours before the ships would arrive....the Southern forces attacked the fort.
Gavin Mortimer
"Double Death: The True Story of Pryce Lewis, the Civil War's Most Daring Spy,"byGavin Mortimer, p.70-71
The First Battle of Fort Sumter opened on April 12, 1861, when Confederate artillery fired on the Union garrisonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sumter

P.G.T. Beauregard - HISTORY
www.history.com › topics › american-civil-war › pgt-b...

In this role he ordered the first shots of the Civil War during the bombardment of Fort Sumter (April 12-14, 1861). After his success in taking Fort ...



The Confederacy believed that they held the trump card: the world's strongest naval power, England would have to join them in a war due to the need for the South's cotton.

Whether or not they imagined that they could defeat the North militarily,they fervently believed that they could oblige....compel... the greatest military power in the world to back them."



Here are some facts that make it clear:


a. 75% of the world's cotton, and up to 84% of Britain's, came from the South's cotton fields. The Cotton Economy in the South FREE The Cotton Economy in the South information Encyclopedia.com Find The Cotton Economy in the South research

b. In Britain's industrial heartland, where all but 500 of the country's 2,650 cotton factories, employing 440 000 people, were located, and almost all of the cotton came from the Southern United States. A history of the Lancashire cotton mills

c. "In 1861 the London Times estimated that one fifth of the British population was dependent, directly or indirectly, on the success of the cotton districts." "Double Death: The True Story of Pryce Lewis, the Civil War's Most Daring Spy,"byGavin Mortimer, p.72

I enjoy your history lessons so please enjoy mine too.
Have you been to the battlefields? I was in VA at the first battle called Bull Run by the North. It was one hell of a fight and the Confederates sent Lincoln's troops fleeing like they were on fire back to DC.

You do what the north loves to do, send us packing to Ft. Sumter. Abe had already came to office after the North had abandoned many forts it held. Ft Sumter was a joke of a battle. Why one asks me? Because the South had toys for cannons to hit that fort. It was hardly damaged. The range of the South Cannons was pitiful. This the north never tells you.

The South for a fact did operations similar to Washington who took up arms against their then legal government. He spent 8 years trying to defeat the then lawful government of England. Why the defenders of Lincoln don't notice the sameness of the pair of wars amazes me.