What is a Patriot?

[USNavyVet]

The mistake of the lefties and righties who detest the drones is one of philosophy instead of recognizing that it is a technological tool all presidents would have used if they could. Imagine what the Allies could have done with extensive use of drone and helicopter in WWII.

The use of drones is terrorism.

I don't see how using drones falls into any of the normal definitions of terrorism.

 

[Billo_Really]

It was a spy ship feeding information to the Arabs in order to prevent Israel from winning too much. Why did Eisenhower earlier let the desert savages take the Suez Canal, which never would have been built except for European intellectual superiority? The West has always been playing Half and Half in the Middle East, half for people just like us and half for our natural enemies.

We're not allowed to spy?

 

[PrometheusBound]

A patriot is business man.

The business man wants cheaper labor so he can produce higher returns for his investors. (This is called "getting incentives right").

The businessman gets those higher returns when his products are made in dictator-lead freedom-hating nations by workers who make $5/day.

So the business man funds elections (and he lobbies Washington) so that he can create the legislative machinery to globalize production (so he can benefit from cheaper labor costs. He does this even though it leads to the dispossession of American workers, who can't survive on the labor rates he gets in places like Taiwan. So it's not like the businessman just needs tax incentives to bring jobs back - rather, he needs an exploited working class that just makes $5/day).

UNFORTUNATELY the businessman has a problem. He needs to get the American workers whom he dispossessed to vote for the politicians who will take care of investors/owners (by shipping jobs to places like China). So he funds a propaganda system which employs people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin to use the Culture War (religion, patriotism, terrorism, the gay agenda, atheists, "Real Americans!") to get average Americans to vote for the "right people".

Patriotism is used by the Right to get American citizens to vote for their own dispossession. It is funded by the same people who profit by shipping their jobs to Communist China.

The OP is one of the ones being manipulated.

It's far worse than that, sucker. Liberals are Heirhead agents of the Right Wing who invent a purposely disgusting agenda in order to trick the majority into voting for the Preppy Progressives' "Conservative" classmates in reaction to this show.

Second, the rich pulled strings to get the gutless unpatriotic slime that oozes from their trophy wives out of having to fight in our wars. That is a capital offense.

 

[Billo_Really]

I don't see how using drones falls into any of the normal definitions of terrorism.

How would you like to be a member of a population where those things are constantly flying overhead? Knowing at anytime, this could be your last moment on earth? Doesn't matter where you are or what you're doing, at any moment, you could be hit with a missle. In your bed, going to the store, at a friends wedding, picking up firewood and BAM!, they can't even tell if its your flesh or street debris.

How would you like to live 24/7 under that? How would you like to have a foreign force, flying over your country? Taking pot shots at your neighbors.

 

[PrometheusBound]

I don't see how that proves one's patriotism.

It proves my support for the military.

I don't agree. Your stance on one issue that is controversial proves nothing. Now if you supported/opposed the Mai Lai massacres that would have meaning. Not a controversy there.

The "civilians" at My Lai were helping the VC kill American soldiers. The Chickenhawk-in-Chief got us into the same situation in Afganistan and Iraq. If he hadn't been such a sissyboy flag-waving traitor and had been drafted at 18 just like real Americans were, he would have known what he was getting us into.

 

[USNavyVet]

I don't see how using drones falls into any of the normal definitions of terrorism.

How would you like to be a member of a population where those things are constantly flying overhead? Knowing at anytime, this could be your last moment on earth? Doesn't matter where you are or what you're doing, at any moment, you could be hit with a missle. In your bed, going to the store, at a friends wedding, picking up firewood and BAM!, they can't even tell if its your flesh or street debris.

How would you like to live 24/7 under that? How would you like to have a foreign force, flying over your country? Taking pot shots at your neighbors.

Everything you mentioned is irrelevant. Terrorism doesn't mean you're afraid or in terror. I prefer the CIA definition of terrorism:

◦The term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.
◦The term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving the territory or the citizens of more than one country.
◦The term “terrorist group” means any group that practices, or has significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/cia-the-war-on-terrorism/terrorism-faqs.html

But you can also see that the FBI definition doesn't fit your criteria either:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
◾Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
◾Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
◾Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

FBI ? Terrorism Definition

 

[PrometheusBound]

The thousands of deaths Bush may have been responsible for doesn't excuse a single death Obama is responsible for. As long as he continues the same policies as Bush he is just as guilty.

The red flag for me was when he kept the same Sec of Defense.

I think he re-hired the same Commander-in-Chief too.

 

[Billo_Really]

I think he re-hired the same Commander-in-Chief too.

Yeah, but this ones not an AWOL.

Our foreign policy is the neocon agenda.

 

[Billo_Really]

Everything you mentioned is irrelevant. Terrorism doesn't mean you're afraid or in terror. I prefer the CIA definition of terrorism:

◦The term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.
◦The term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving the territory or the citizens of more than one country.
◦The term “terrorist group” means any group that practices, or has significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/cia-the-war-on-terrorism/terrorism-faqs.html

But you can also see that the FBI definition doesn't fit your criteria either:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
◾Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
◾Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
◾Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

FBI ? Terrorism Definition

It's not irrelevent to the people living where drones are flying and you know god-damn well it wouldn't be irrelevent to you if they were flying over your head.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

A patriot is someone who makes sacrifices for the good of the country. The rest of us are just Americans with opinions.

 

[regent]

So which should come first in our patriotism, the American people, the government, one's political party, our historical past or the founders?. Other?

 

[USNavyVet]

It's not irrelevent to the people living where drones are flying and you know god-damn well it wouldn't be irrelevent to you if they were flying over your head.

So you just make up your own definition of words. Got it. Thanks.

 

[Billo_Really]

The "civilians" at My Lai were helping the VC kill American soldiers. The Chickenhawk-in-Chief got us into the same situation in Afganistan and Iraq. If he hadn't been such a sissyboy flag-waving traitor and had been drafted at 18 just like real Americans were, he would have known what he was getting us into.

I turned 17 the year before they ended registration.

Talk about anxiety over your 18th birthday.

It's a helluva thing to put a teenager through.

 

[Billo_Really]

So you just make up your own definition of words. Got it. Thanks.

I'm saying if drones were flying over your head, wouldn't you be terrified?

I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

 

[Politico]

Which President fought the Nazis?

None of them directly.

 

[Billo_Really]

So which should come first in our patriotism, the American people, the government, one's political party, our historical past or the founders?. Other?

That's easy. The American people. Preferrably, the liberal American people. But if we have to, I guess we can include the right, as well. They can always serve as a bad example.

 

[USNavyVet]

So you just make up your own definition of words. Got it. Thanks.

I'm saying if drones were flying over your head, wouldn't you be terrified?

I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

Being "terrified" is not in any definition of terrorism. If you're just going to make up your own definitions then fine but that just shows that you're wrong. I know English is a hard language.

 

[Sallow]

That is. Using drones isn't.

Bush used drones too.

And killed many more kids.

Like thousands of them, in Iraq.

The thousands of deaths Bush may have been responsible for doesn't excuse a single death Obama is responsible for. As long as he continues the same policies as Bush he is just as guilty.

And here's the thing about that.

Fighting actual terrorists is a dirty business. They hide in areas with families.

What Bush did was to invade a totalitarian country which had few terrorists and basically none that threatened America.

What Obama is doing is shooting actual terrorists in the face.

And sometimes..people get in the way.

 

[Sallow]

It was a spy ship feeding information to the Arabs in order to prevent Israel from winning too much. Why did Eisenhower earlier let the desert savages take the Suez Canal, which never would have been built except for European intellectual superiority? The West has always been playing Half and Half in the Middle East, half for people just like us and half for our natural enemies.

We're not allowed to spy?

Nope.

No one is.

Spies are A-Okay to shoot on site.

 

[Billo_Really]

Being "terrified" is not in any definition of terrorism. If you're just going to make up your own definitions then fine but that just shows that you're wrong. I know English is a hard language.

Alright, since you keep pushing the point, let's re-visit your definitions...

The term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.

Definition fits. We've wiped out wedding party's, women picking up firewood and a whole lotta non-combatants. And you don't consider some Top Gun 20 year old sitting in a air-conditioned room in Nevada behind a joy-stick pulling the trigger a "clandestine agent"?

◦The term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving the territory or the citizens of more than one country.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemon, Libya, all satisfy that definition.

◦The term “terrorist group” means any group that practices, or has significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.

Army, navy, air force and marines all satisfy that definition.

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
◾Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;

Drone strikes are dangerous to human life and are used in violation of Article 51 of the UN Charter. Definition satisfied.

◾Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

Why you would think this isn't applicable, is beyond me.

◾Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.

I think it's safe to conclude the country's I mentioned above, are outside the territorial jurisdiction of the US. Definition satisfied.

So basically, WTF are talking about?

BTW, I got A's in english.