What is a human right?

[manifold]

The healthcare discussions got me thinking (insert joke here).

How would one define a human right and what would they be? I know this is a very open ended question, but I'm interested in what people think about it. Especially considering the widespread disagreement around whether healtcare is or is not a human right.

What do you think?

 

[Bern80]

Well if you consider humans just another animal (albeit a highly advanced one) we don't really have any rights at all.

 

[manifold]

Well if you consider humans just another animal (albeit a highly advanced one) we don't really have any rights at all.

Animals have no rights???

I think Michael Vick might disagree with you about that, for good reason.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Something Anti military, pacifists and Liberals fail to grasp is we have only those rights we can enforce. In the case of the US our rights are spelled out in several documents with the added caveat that unless the Government gets our permission any power the Government is NOT granted they do not have.

Well unless your a liberal and then any power you like exists if you can gain political power. Fuck the laws, the Constitution and the rights and powers of Individuals and Governments.

 

[manifold]

...unless your a liberal and then any power you like exists if you can gain political power. Fuck the laws, the Constitution and the rights and powers of Individuals and Governments.

I guess you must consider George Bush and Dick Cheney liberals then.

 

[Diuretic]

The healthcare discussions got me thinking (insert joke here).

How would one define a human right and what would they be? I know this is a very open ended question, but I'm interested in what people think about it. Especially considering the widespread disagreement around whether healtcare is or is not a human right.

What do you think?

RGS got me thinking. I wonder if the US was the first nation in history that actually addressed this question when the constitution was being drafted. Given that the founders were very well educated in the theories of Locke and Montesquieu and of course in the ideas that flowed from the Enlightenment, I suspect that may well be the case. Where other nations were still wrapped up in the divine right of kings (although in England they'd sorted that out a bit passing the 1689 Bill of Rights and were making some progress towards what we consider to be accepted rights), the US had expressly rejected the notion of monarchical despotism and had taken great pains in identifying exactly what the rights of a citizen were.

I still think that phrase, "'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" (allowing for the shift in definitions over time) encompasses it. Of course it's more complex now and we have the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which also advises us. But you know, it disappoints me (but doesn't surprise me) that so many reactionaries - not conservatives - here are ready to limit the definition.

 

[mattskramer]

The healthcare discussions got me thinking (insert joke here).

How would one define a human right and what would they be? I know this is a very open ended question, but I'm interested in what people think about it. Especially considering the widespread disagreement around whether healtcare is or is not a human right.

What do you think?

Books have been written on it. What is it; does it really exist outside of human imagination? What does it include (education, equality, etc.)? There are many theories and opinions about it. Many people disagree about it and there are many theories about it. As with the debate about God, whether or not God exists, defining God, and trying to determine what God wants, debates about “Human Rights” has existed since long ago and will continue long into the future. Anyway, you can read some simplified perspectives on it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights

To answer your question, I think that it is a human invention used to help maintain a semblance of a civil society.

 

[Diuretic]

I think it's about humanity. I'm sorry but I'm coming from a position that there's no deity and no afterlife so I suppose I'll be criticised for having a sterile view - almost a nihilistic view - of human life, but I think that human rights can never be limited (beyond the obvious physical limitations). Anything that enhances human existence is a human right.

That should piss off the reactionaries

 

[Gurdari]

Whatever we as humans agree on. Nothing is inherent.
We just agree, that self-defence is a right - and beyond that... who knows?

Whatever people feel should be their providence (some think their bodies should be their own, some think their speech should be free) and collectively agree on becomes a 'right'.

If you have power though, you don't need rights as much. But if you have no power, you really need some guarantee not to be f*cked with and 'rights' is what humanity has come up with so far.

 

[Taomon]

The healthcare discussions got me thinking (insert joke here).

How would one define a human right and what would they be? I know this is a very open ended question, but I'm interested in what people think about it. Especially considering the widespread disagreement around whether healtcare is or is not a human right.

What do you think?

God gave us free will.

 

[midcan5]

Allow me to repost this thought: Consider for a moment the novel idea that in a democracy the people create what comes to be a 'right,' and sooner or latter the common folk are going to wake up - actually that may be happening now - and say, hey, I too would like to have heathcare.

But what Manifold is looking for is something we can point to, something concrete, there is a reason the Ten Commandments were written in 'stone,' but notice they are mostly prohibitions. So if I were forced to say what is a 'right,' I have to go with it is the golden rule in reverse.

 

[Gunny]

Allow me to repost this thought: Consider for a moment the novel idea that in a democracy the people create what comes to be a 'right,' and sooner or latter the common folk are going to wake up - actually that may be happening now - and say, hey, I too would like to have heathcare.

But what Manifold is looking for is something we can point to, something concrete, there is a reason the Ten Commandments were written in 'stone,' but notice they are mostly prohibitions. So if I were forced to say what is a 'right,' I have to go with it is the golden rule in reverse.

As has been previously stated, there is no inherent human right beyond the imagination of humans, and more importantly, what humans can and will enforce.

Opinions are most likely as varied as cultures.

 

[mattskramer]

As has been previously stated, there is no inherent human right beyond the imagination of humans, and more importantly, what humans can and will enforce.

Opinions are most likely as varied as cultures.

Wow. You agree with me? I’m honored.

 

[Gunny]

Wow. You agree with me? I’m honored.

Even *you* can't always be wrong, matts.

 

[Dr Grump]

God gave us free will.

There is no such thing as god...Free will was always there..

 

[Diuretic]

Human rights are social constructs, fairly recent ones in human history too I think.

 

[Taomon]

There is no such thing as god...Free will was always there..

If that is what you need to believe, then so be it. I choose to believe in God

 

[manifold]

If that is what you need to believe, then so be it. I choose to believe in God

Just be careful because if you exercise that so-called "freewill" he gave you in manner in which he disapproves, you might find yourself burning for all eternity.

just sayin.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just be careful because if you exercise that so-called "freewill" he gave you in manner in which he disapproves, you might find yourself burning for all eternity.

just sayin.

Read the Bible there is no Hell, Satan rules Earth and will be cast completely out at the second coming. Evil people will just be dead.

 

[mattskramer]

Read the Bible there is no Hell, Satan rules Earth and will be cast completely out at the second coming. Evil people will just be dead.

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:11-12).

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42).

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:49-50).

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments. . .(Luke 16:23)

It sounds like hell to me.