What If You Atheists Are Wrong? Hmmmm...

[-Cp]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

hi Sidney, provoking question for sure, however you have something wrong:


- The world would not have died w/ "christianity" and if you're a Christian you know this - Christ send the spirit here, and as long as the spirit is around, man won't come to an "end" any sooner or later than what God's plan has already laid out..

 

[-Cp]

What If You Atheists Are Wrong? Hmmmm...

Then we're wrong. Trying to use a mock threat to change someones belief system is silly.

I agree! One of the false things "christians" talk about is "hell" - when the sad reality the Bible never talks about a literal place called "Hell" nor did Christ ever once say to ANYONE: "Turn or burn"... even the thief on the cross - Christ had every opportunity to tell him he was about to become a piece of charcoal - if there was in fact a place of eternal torment where folks will burn for all eternity - why didn't Christ warn that thief?

With that said, it does suck the big one to not live a life surrendered to Christ - because outside of Him, you cannot know true-love and forgiveness. Additionally, I wouldn't want to be judged and chastised by him on the day of judgement.

 

[Dr Grump]

With that said, it does suck the big one to not live a life surrendered to Christ - because outside of Him, you cannot know true-love and forgiveness.

Of course outside of a religious belief you can know true love and forgiveness

Additionally, I wouldn't want to be judged and chastised by him on the day of judgement.

If Jesus existed AS the son of a god, and if the King James version of the Bible is true, then there is nothing to fear.

 

[sidneyworld]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

hi Sidney, provoking question for sure, however you have something wrong:


- The world would not have died w/ "christianity" and if you're a Christian you know this - Christ send the spirit here, and as long as the spirit is around, man won't come to an "end" any sooner or later than what God's plan has already laid out..

Hi, I'm just a little confused. What I said was that withOUT Christianity civilization at this point would probably have died out. We have guaranteed salvation beyond our physical existence predicated on our adherence to God's law. But many folks who do not practice religion also have this opportunity especially after having experienced a profound event in their life that opened that door. Many folks on this earth actually practice these ethics naturally. Respect and pure love for nature, for mankind.

I've quite often challenged the notion that a child who is not baptized will not go to heaven. This is a Catholic sacriment that is said to be paramount into receiving God's grace and "entrance into heaven" but there are problems with this. And this is discussed on another thread involving choosing a religion, or being born into one.

To suggest that someone has to practice religion to gain eternal salvation is, I believe, a defective directive because a child has no choice in the way it is raised. Nor does a person who has never been introduced to spirituality, or religion or worship. I find it rather arrogant if not completely subjective for a human being to assume such a thing and impose these manmade laws.

What Jesus teaches is simply the right direction. And that direction does not burden the soul. It releases it into a higher ground of understanding. People who have been spiritually transformed in this manner are acting on their spiritual instincts guided quite often by divine intervention, whether they realize it or not. At some point they will. And that's when it becomes easy to recognize the goodness they have inside of them. And that's also when we have the capacity to recogize evil as well.

What's more interesting is how common sense is applied after such an event. How we better assess a person's genuine character and overall intention. Never trust a person who claims that business and faith are two separate issues. I can't remember how many tiimes I've come across a "religious" person who makes such a claim. That their professional practices, especially in some fields, is simply a matter skill and savy and does not compromise the integrity of their faith. How is that possible?

The ad agent who is promoting a product that is clearly substandard to what is being promoted as quality. Anything to get the consumer to purchase it. I remember Johnny Carson making a comment one day about one of his sponsors. He didn't actually mention the product or the company, but he made it clear that he would not promote substandard products if they are being marketed far above their actual caliber of quality. If you're selling something cheap, don't promote quality. Just promote functionality. But as we all know, quality and convenience lacks much consistency in products these days.

But this perspective of questionable, albeit perhaps benign, business practices and the practice of faith is vast in its contradiction. Ethical practice is universal no matter what you do in your life. If you knowingly deceive anyone for personal gain, especially when it is not necessary covers all ground. There is no separation of ethics here. And I would have to say that the majority of people of at least cognitive of their own actions and potential compromise of their business integrity, whether they practice religion or not.

Anne Marie

 

[JBeukema]

Unbaptized children will go to hell, for their souls are stained with sin.

 

[HUGGY]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

hi Sidney, provoking question for sure, however you have something wrong:


- The world would not have died w/ "christianity" and if you're a Christian you know this - Christ send the spirit here, and as long as the spirit is around, man won't come to an "end" any sooner or later than what God's plan has already laid out..

Hi, I'm just a little confused. What I said was that withOUT Christianity civilization at this point would probably have died out. We have guaranteed salvation beyond our physical existence predicated on our adherence to God's law. But many folks who do not practice religion also have this opportunity especially after having experienced a profound event in their life that opened that door. Many folks on this earth actually practice these ethics naturally. Respect and pure love for nature, for mankind.

I've quite often challenged the notion that a child who is not baptized will not go to heaven. This is a Catholic sacriment that is said to be paramount into receiving God's grace and "entrance into heaven" but there are problems with this. And this is discussed on another thread involving choosing a religion, or being born into one.

To suggest that someone has to practice religion to gain eternal salvation is, I believe, a defective directive because a child has no choice in the way it is raised. Nor does a person who has never been introduced to spirituality, or religion or worship. I find it rather arrogant if not completely subjective for a human being to assume such a thing and impose these manmade laws.

What Jesus teaches is simply the right direction. And that direction does not burden the soul. It releases it into a higher ground of understanding. People who have been spiritually transformed in this manner are acting on their spiritual instincts guided quite often by divine intervention, whether they realize it or not. At some point they will. And that's when it becomes easy to recognize the goodness they have inside of them. And that's also when we have the capacity to recogize evil as well.

What's more interesting is how common sense is applied after such an event. How we better assess a person's genuine character and overall intention. Never trust a person who claims that business and faith are two separate issues. I can't remember how many tiimes I've come across a "religious" person who makes such a claim. That their professional practices, especially in some fields, is simply a matter skill and savy and does not compromise the integrity of their faith. How is that possible?

The ad agent who is promoting a product that is clearly substandard to what is being promoted as quality. Anything to get the consumer to purchase it. I remember Johnny Carson making a comment one day about one of his sponsors. He didn't actually mention the product or the company, but he made it clear that he would not promote substandard products if they are being marketed far above their actual caliber of quality. If you're selling something cheap, don't promote quality. Just promote functionality. But as we all know, quality and convenience lacks much consistency in products these days.

But this perspective of questionable, albeit perhaps benign, business practices and the practice of faith is vast in its contradiction. Ethical practice is universal no matter what you do in your life. If you knowingly deceive anyone for personal gain, especially when it is not necessary covers all ground. There is no separation of ethics here. And I would have to say that the majority of people of at least cognitive of their own actions and potential compromise of their business integrity, whether they practice religion or not.

Anne Marie

Hi, I'm just a little confused

I'll conceed you that point.

You would LIKE to believe humans could not survive without religion. Bolstering your faith with sweeping general statements without factual foundation is self serving.

Christian and jewish single god religions are no more valid than the beliefs embodied in the idols of previous human societies. Ignorant peasants and land owners of those early social groups were afraid of evrything. They understood nothing of the forces that affected thier lives. Thier hope and faith that if they acted like good and faithfull children to the unseen gods gave them comfort. That's all..comfort. Or do you suggest that praying to the god of the volcano had affect?

Dressing up your idols or consolidating them under the guise of one omnipitant all seeing and all knowing one is just rearranging the deck chairs. Your ship is sinking.

I hope that you will break free from your fears and live your life in reality. Jump in ...the water is wonderful.

 

[-Cp]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

hi Sidney, provoking question for sure, however you have something wrong:


- The world would not have died w/ "christianity" and if you're a Christian you know this - Christ send the spirit here, and as long as the spirit is around, man won't come to an "end" any sooner or later than what God's plan has already laid out..

Hi, I'm just a little confused. What I said was that withOUT Christianity civilization at this point would probably have died out. We have guaranteed salvation beyond our physical existence predicated on our adherence to God's law. But many folks who do not practice religion also have this opportunity especially after having experienced a profound event in their life that opened that door. Many folks on this earth actually practice these ethics naturally. Respect and pure love for nature, for mankind.

I'm well aware of what you said.... and my reply had nothing to do with salvation - I'm just saying that without "christians" in the world, the existence of humans would not end any sooner or later as either way (with our without Christians), the world will wind-down when it does.

 

[sidneyworld]

hi Sidney, provoking question for sure, however you have something wrong:


- The world would not have died w/ "christianity" and if you're a Christian you know this - Christ send the spirit here, and as long as the spirit is around, man won't come to an "end" any sooner or later than what God's plan has already laid out..

Hi, I'm just a little confused. What I said was that withOUT Christianity civilization at this point would probably have died out. We have guaranteed salvation beyond our physical existence predicated on our adherence to God's law. But many folks who do not practice religion also have this opportunity especially after having experienced a profound event in their life that opened that door. Many folks on this earth actually practice these ethics naturally. Respect and pure love for nature, for mankind.

I'm well aware of what you said.... and my reply had nothing to do with salvation - I'm just saying that without "christians" in the world, the existence of humans would not end any sooner or later as either way (with our without Christians), the world will wind-down when it does.

The end of days is inevitable. There are many theories what happens to all groups of people, by faith in scripture. Who knows. But my perspective on this by mentioning that if Christianity did not exist, the world would most certainly have become a much darker place, at the very least, and yes, I still believe that we might have made it this far. While a human beings' sense of self-preservation does not require religion, sometimes our means by which we maintain that ambition lends itself to massive destruction. Christianity for billions of people have offered a sense of direction and discipline that in its most genuine application does not encroach on the survival of other people. If anything, its a means by which to live harmonously among other people in society.

Anne Marie

 

[-Cp]

Hi, I'm just a little confused. What I said was that withOUT Christianity civilization at this point would probably have died out. We have guaranteed salvation beyond our physical existence predicated on our adherence to God's law. But many folks who do not practice religion also have this opportunity especially after having experienced a profound event in their life that opened that door. Many folks on this earth actually practice these ethics naturally. Respect and pure love for nature, for mankind.

I'm well aware of what you said.... and my reply had nothing to do with salvation - I'm just saying that without "christians" in the world, the existence of humans would not end any sooner or later as either way (with our without Christians), the world will wind-down when it does.

The end of days is inevitable. There are many theories what happens to all groups of people, by faith in scripture. Who knows. But my perspective on this by mentioning that if Christianity did not exist, the world would most certainly have become a much darker place, at the very least, and yes, I still believe that we might have made it this far. While a human beings' sense of self-preservation does not require religion, sometimes our means by which we maintain that ambition lends itself to massive destruction. Christianity for billions of people have offered a sense of direction and discipline that in its most genuine application does not encroach on the survival of other people. If anything, its a means by which to live harmonously among other people in society.

Anne Marie

I guess I'm not convinced that "christians" somehow act any better than "non-christians" - they have the same divorce rate etc...

In fact, the Bible states that "Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable -- who doth know it?" - Jeremiah 17:9

I've met a lot of "good people" in this world that act more "christ-like" than most "christians"..

 

[BrokenAngel]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

I think the original point of the bold statement was that if not for religious doctrines telling people to be decent, to not kill, if it weren't for the moral basis any religion exists on that people would have wiped each other off the face of the earth by now. You guys are like rabid dogs sometimes! lol.. No one has said to you "Accept Christianity as the ONLY true religion or die you infidels!!" so relax and try just having a conversation about the question posed.

And as for the question posed.. that very question is part of what started driving me back to religion in my early twenties. ^_^ If I am going to be a good person and live my life decently anyways what does it take but me sucking up a little pride to accept Jesus as my Savior?

 

[JBeukema]

Again, you show your ignorance in assuming that only religion can bring any sense of morality or code of ethics

 

[Anguille]

.

 

[sidneyworld]

I'm well aware of what you said.... and my reply had nothing to do with salvation - I'm just saying that without "christians" in the world, the existence of humans would not end any sooner or later as either way (with our without Christians), the world will wind-down when it does.

The end of days is inevitable. There are many theories what happens to all groups of people, by faith in scripture. Who knows. But my perspective on this by mentioning that if Christianity did not exist, the world would most certainly have become a much darker place, at the very least, and yes, I still believe that we might have made it this far. While a human beings' sense of self-preservation does not require religion, sometimes our means by which we maintain that ambition lends itself to massive destruction. Christianity for billions of people have offered a sense of direction and discipline that in its most genuine application does not encroach on the survival of other people. If anything, its a means by which to live harmonously among other people in society.

Anne Marie

I guess I'm not convinced that "christians" somehow act any better than "non-christians" - they have the same divorce rate etc...

In fact, the Bible states that "Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable -- who doth know it?" - Jeremiah 17:9

I've met a lot of "good people" in this world that act more "christ-like" than most "christians"..

I might challenge that most people you might meet would not be inclined to introduce themselves as a Christian, however I too, do know many non-Christians who have a great deal of ethical and spiritual integrity. It simply does not include any expression perception of divine intervention. I don't know all the answers but I do know that we have many sheep in this world who are easily driven to either destruction or paradise. I guess the problem comes in the following. It goes both ways.

My belief in God and my faith in spirituality did not come from instruction. In fact, I had to deprogram myself away from my Catholic unbringing on many levels because it was entirely overwhelmed with ritual and rules and regulations that never made any real sense to me. It was highly prejudicial and bigoted and I've spent many days wondering why I needed to go to church and kneel to a God that presumably blessed Joe Blow down the block who shot blue jays and ground critters for target practice a few hours after he returned home from mass. I mean.... come on! Or the guy down the road who molested little children and got away with it until he had a heartattack and died and all the dirt finally came out from his wife and several neighbors who did nothing about it. He was an avid church and community participant and well respected. Yeah right. I could have been one of those kids had I not been raised with the sons of my dad's WWII veteran friends. All 8 of them, since I was 7 years old. I had a great childhood because of that. God knows how many kids have been molested at that time, and even priests. Human beings can be pretty sick people. The worst have to be those who hide behind God's cloak with a dagger in one hand, and their penis in the other. Unbelievably sick.

Phew!!

Anne Marie

 

[amrchaos]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

Civilization existed before Christianity...

 

[Ceasaro]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

Civilization existed before Christianity...

Anne if christianity is really bogus, then you've lived your life as a total lie, and basically wasted it adhering to some bogus meaningless book.
That's gotta piss you off a little.

 

[amrchaos]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

Seriously?

Yeah... it's not like Jews, Buddhists, Hindus or any other group had "civilization" before Christians...

What extraordinary arrogance.

The Hellenics saw the creation of Greek civilization. Greek civilization still exist, the Hellinic religion is dead. Human civilization will outlive Christianity.

 

[mskafka]

People were around long before Christianity and will be around long after religion is finally foregone for reason.

There is far more to Christianity than believing in a "god". Seriously... An educated consumer is God's best customer. Remember that.

p.s. You're awesome Bones, in any case! Nobody's perfect... yikes!

Anne Marie

that's funny.

I didn't realize god was selling anything. And if by educated, you mean those that are so eager to abandon reason for eternal life in paradise, then maybe you're right.

Have you been to the literature section at Walmart recently?

No seriously. I don't believe that God himself, sells anything. (yes I realize that it was a joke). I'm not sure I understand what skull was aiming for, but it struck me as funny, nonetheless. God sells nothing. But many people sell God for their own profit. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all three inherently beautiful, imho, in and of themselves. But we have some televangelists and other wack jobs who have turned the three into a ....for lack of a better word or statement....a pissing contest.

Which is the truth? Which is more peaceful? Which is RIGHT? Well, if you don't believe what I believe then I'm going to bomb your temple or church.

That doesn't send a very warm and welcoming message to those who may be interested in embracing it. If all I had to look forward to is picketing abortion clinics, lying on a grassy knoll with a .50 caliber, or straping a bomb to my chest...then no. I wouldn't want any part of it. People, have tainted religion. God Himself, I feel in my heart, does not condone this type of behavior.

Okay, my Socratic moment is over.

 

[Ceasaro]

"Have you been to the literature section at Walmart recently? "

Why the US have no real bookstores?

Walmart is the Chinese god of the American dollar.

 

[renoite]

if they are well they lost GOD but to them they lose nothing in fact because they dont belieave in GOD. But If GOD is real then they are going to have to worry. IN wich we dont have to because we know GOD is really there. so when we die we wont lose a thing.

 

[mskafka]

"Have you been to the literature section at Walmart recently? "

Why the US have no real bookstores?

Walmart is the Chinese god of the American dollar.

Haha! That's funny, sad, and true. When you walk through the book section of Walmart you will find ALL of the "Left Behind" series, Kenneth Copeland's Greatest Hits, The Best of Creflo Dollar, and the "Prayer of Jabez". If you haven't noticed, and you still shop at Walmart after hearing of their shady business practices, you will see almost verbatim, what I am talking about.