Zone1 What has to happen for a person to be saved?

[The Irish Ram]

What happens if you are the one that is wrong?

Absolutely nothing. If onefour1 is wrong, then onefour1 dies and turns to dust. Onefour1 has lost nothing.
What happens to you if onefour1 is right? You have lost everything...for eternity.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Fools. The scripture says just that.

What does scripture say about calling someone a fool?

 

[Meriweather]

Rejecting Jesus is rejecting God. Do you disagree with that?

"No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever confesses the Son has the Father also."
1 John 2:23

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
John 14:6
And there are many more scriptures like that. But again, this is very basic stuff.

Who is Jesus? Jesus is The Word of God. Scripture lays out that Jesus, in fact, is the Word of God. Here is the dilemma. Are Christians accusing Jews and Muslims of rejecting the word of God? Jesus and the Word of God are one and the same.

For me the question is, Can a person who does not know the Word of God know God? Can those who truly follow the Word of God--even without full understanding of it--truly reject Jesus who is the Word of God?

The Word of God can be described as profound, as infinite, as eternal. How much can even the best Christian grasp the Word of God in its entirety? How well does someone need to know The Word of God...how well does someone have to truly know Jesus before s/he can rightly say they "accept" God's Word, or "accept" Jesus?

I believe Jesus came to save the whole world, and this belief cautions against throwing up roadblocks. I cannot help but think of how Edwin Markham phrased this:

"He drew a circle that shut me out – Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout. But love and I had the wit to win: We drew a circle and took him in."

The circle that draws in people of other faiths is pointing out how they, too, love the Word of God.

 

[rightwinger]

Absolutely nothing. If onefour1 is wrong, then onefour1 dies and turns to dust. Onefour1 has lost nothing.
What happens to you if onefour1 is right? You have lost everything...for eternity.

So religion is like a Casino
You place your bet and hope you win in the end

 

[buttercup]

So religion is like a Casino
You place your bet and hope you win in the end

Not at all. There are so many reasons to believe. Good, compelling reasons. If you actually think that followers of Christ blindly believe for no reason, then you couldn't be more wrong, imho.

 

[Meriweather]

So religion is like a Casino
You place your bet and hope you win in the end

No. It's not even about winning. It's about freedom. How free are you when you are in a casino? How free is one after leaving a casino: More free or less free?

 

[rightwinger]

Not at all. There are so many reasons to believe. Good, compelling reasons. If you actually think that believers blindly believe for no reason, then you couldn't be more wrong, imho.

Just like a Casino

You look at the odds and place your bet
You win……you go to heaven
You lose…..Hell awaits you

Religion is so much fun

 

[onefour1]

So, the unbaptized died, went to hell and then got a reprieve and took the next train out of Hell for Heaven because someone baptized his dead body?
Being baptized is a personal decision. Baptizing a dead body is someone else's decision.

They didn't go to hell. They are in spirit prison which is the place where the spirits of the dead who have not received Christ go and it is there that they also receive the opportunity to accept and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ. There also they await the resurrection and then the judgment. All mankind will be resurrected and then brought before the judgment seat of the God. The baptisms for the dead are performed by the living vicariously. This does not automatically save the dead. They must also accept the gospel of Jesus and accept the vicarious baptism performed on their behalf. They have that choice. So yes, you are right that baptism is a person decision. They can accept it or reject it. The dead cannot perform baptism by immersion in water as spirit beings. For this reason it was instituted by the Lord that we perform proxy baptisms for our dead and give them the opportunity to either accept it or reject it. This work will go on throughout the Millennial reign of Jesus on this earth until all have had the opportunity to receive that privilege. Baptism of the dead is of no effect if the dead choose not to receive it unto themselves.

 

[onefour1]

Absolutely nothing. If onefour1 is wrong, then onefour1 dies and turns to dust. Onefour1 has lost nothing.
What happens to you if onefour1 is right? You have lost everything...for eternity.

Not true! What this means is that all mankind, even those who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel in this life will have that opportunity among the spirits of the dead. Why else would Christ preach to the dead if once they are dead their chance is up? Christ makes sure that all the children of God have the opportunity to hear and accept his gospel. He also affords all those who die without baptism to gain that opportunity so that they have the opportunity to enter the kingdom of heaven. God is a very fair and loving God who will leave the 99 to save the 1 stray of his sheep.

 

[buttercup]

They didn't go to hell. They are in spirit prison which is the place where the spirits of the dead who have not received Christ go and it is there that they also receive the opportunity to accept and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ. There also they await the resurrection and then the judgment. All mankind will be resurrected and then brought before the judgment seat of the God. The baptisms for the dead are performed by the living vicariously. This does not automatically save the dead. They must also accept the gospel of Jesus and accept the vicarious baptism performed on their behalf. They have that choice. So yes, you are right that baptism is a person decision. They can accept it or reject it. The dead cannot perform baptism by immersion in water as spirit beings. For this reason it was instituted by the Lord that we perform proxy baptisms for our dead and give them the opportunity to either accept it or reject it. This work will go on throughout the Millennial reign of Jesus on this earth until all have had the opportunity to receive that privilege. Baptism of the dead is of no effect if the dead choose not to receive it unto themselves.

Can you please back up all your assertions in the above post with scripture? That sounds like the idea of purgatory. Which is not biblical.

Also...are you a member of the church of LDS like Cougarbear? (Mormon)

 

[Crepitus]

So to whom do you justify your actions

Me.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

What if the 6 billion non Christians are right and YOU are wrong?

See my post #30

 

[MarathonMike]

Why would Jesus need to go and preach to the dead spirits if baptism wasn’t necessary. The law was set by him when he said the only way into the kingdom is by baptism by water. So, the solution is baptism for the dead vicariously as 1Cor. 15:29. Why fight it? What a blessing.

Vicarious Baptisms, spirit prison, spirit paradise? My parents were devout Christians and I never heard anyone of these terms at home, during bible school or in church. Sounds like humans inventing things to me.

 

[buttercup]

Vicarious Baptisms, spirit prison, spirit paradise? My parents were devout Christians and I never heard anyone of these terms at home, during bible school or in church. Sounds like humans inventing things to me.

Same here. It might be a LDS Mormon thing?

ETA: (Not the part about my parents being devout Christians. Mine weren't. Just the part about never having heard that from any Christians or any Christian church I've ever been to.)

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Rejecting Christianity isn't the same as rejecting God.

Yes I agree and similarly being a Christian isn't the same as Christianity. Christianity is a 'religion', being a Christian is believing Jesus Christ died for our sins and is our Lord and Savior, and God is the Alpha and the Omega

 

[The Irish Ram]

Just like a Casino

You look at the odds and place your bet
You win……you go to heaven
You lose…..Hell awaits you

Religion is so much fun

More like a public service announcement regarding your soul:

John 14:6​

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

^ You can heed it or ignore it, but that fact will still remain, and your eternal life hangs in the balance...

 

[rightwinger]

More like a public service announcement regarding your soul:

John 14:6​

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

^ You can heed it or ignore it, but that fact will still remain, and your eternal life hangs in the balance...

So what we have is 2 billion Christians swearing that Christ is the answer.
2 billion Muslims swearing that Allah is the answer.
You condemn them to hell and they label you an infidel.
Billions in other religions swear they are the true religion.

Meanwhile, Atheists look at you all as fools obsessed with your religious fantasies

 

[onefour1]

Can you please back up all your assertions in the above post with scripture? That sounds like the idea of purgatory. Which is not biblical.

Also...are you a member of the church of LDS like Cougarbear? (Mormon)

These verses tell us that Christ went among the dead after his death but before being resurrected. He went and preached to the spirits in prison (spirit prison). He preached unto those who are dead or in other words to the spirit of those who have died. Since Christ was the first to resurrect to immortality in this life, all those who lived from the time of Adam, even those of the days of Noah, were without a resurrected body up until they are to be resurrected. They are spirits. Christ went among them and taught his gospel. Nowhere does it say that the place where the spirits reside after death is hell. Peter called it "the spirits in prison". We LDS call it spirit prison. Because Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him on that very day in paradise, we call the place where the spirits of the dead who have accepted Christ and await a glorious resurrection as paradise (read my previous posts regarding this).

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Doctrine and Covenants 138

We are required to be baptized in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For this reason it has always been a doctrine of the true church of Jesus Christ that there be baptism for the dead. Paul even used the doctrine of baptism for the dead to bolster his argument for the resurrection to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Because of the requirement to be baptized, Jesus instituted baptism for the dead so that mankind would all have the opportunity to enter the kingdom of God. This way those who die in this life who never had the opportunity of hearing or receiving the fulness of the gospel can receive it in the next life before the resurrection and judgment of God. I can't help but think that this may be the reason that the resurrection of the unjust is put off until the end of the millennium. This would give more the opportunity of a thousand years to still accept his gospel and baptism.

 

[Cougarbear]

What does scripture say about calling someone a fool?

It says those who aren’t baptized by water will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Fool is a warning and the Bible says warn your neighbor. You’ve been warned.

 

[The Irish Ram]

They didn't go to hell. They are in spirit prison which is the place where the spirits of the dead who have not received Christ go and it is there that they also receive the opportunity to accept and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ. There also they await the resurrection and then the judgment. All mankind will be resurrected and then brought before the judgment seat of the God. The baptisms for the dead are performed by the living vicariously. This does not automatically save the dead. They must also accept the gospel of Jesus and accept the vicarious baptism performed on their behalf. They have that choice. So yes, you are right that baptism is a person decision. They can accept it or reject it. The dead cannot perform baptism by immersion in water as spirit beings. For this reason it was instituted by the Lord that we perform proxy baptisms for our dead and give them the opportunity to either accept it or reject it. This work will go on throughout the Millennial reign of Jesus on this earth until all have had the opportunity to receive that privilege. Baptism of the dead is of no effect if the dead choose not to receive it unto themselves.

Can you direct me to the spirit prison scriptures? I know Paul didn't teach that. He said If you belong to Christ, absent from the body is present with the Lord. So, by the time you get to the dead Christian to baptize him, he's already up there with Jesus.

We are given an excellent account of what happens when we die. If you read about the rich man and the beggar, do you not think that every person in Hell (spiritual prison?) would have jumped at the chance to follow Christ and get the hell out of Hell if they were given that opportunity? They were not given a choice. They are still there waiting for their name to be called at the White Throne Judgment.