Zone1 What has to happen for a person to be saved?

Vicarious Baptisms, spirit prison, spirit paradise? My parents were devout Christians and I never heard anyone of these terms at home, during bible school or in church. Sounds like humans inventing things to me.
It’s not uncommon that Christians haven’t read the entire Bible. And, this is more testimony for me that the original Church has been restored with the lost doctrine and ordinances have been restored to bless all living and dead.
 
From Ephesians 2...............


And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.
 
So what we have is 2 billion Christians swearing that Christ is the answer.
2 billion Muslims swearing that Allah is the answer.
You condemn them to hell and they label you an infidel.
Billions in other religions swear they are the true religion.

Meanwhile, Atheists look at you all as fools obsessed with your religious fantasies


No.......they condemn themselves by their own unbelief.
 
Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

In other words, he that doeth the works required by God, shall enter the kingdom of heaven. Works are a part of the gospel and required by God for us to do. Works do not save us but they are required before our Lord will save us into the kingdom of heaven. What are those works? We are required to have faith and to be baptized which is to take upon us the name of Christ and to keep his commandments. Did the apostles preach and perform baptism because it was an unnecessary ordinance of the gospel? NO! It is an essential ordinance of the gospel. This is why the disciples of Christ were commanded to go into all the world and preach his gospel to every creature and baptize all who would come unto Christ.

Mark 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The works of going into all the world and teaching the gospel and baptizing is a work that is required of us by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We must do the works of our Lord before he will grant us entrance into his glorious kingdom. We should strive to keep all of God's commandments. Only he who actually does the will of the Father shall find entrance into his kingdom.
It’s amazing how people will fight the will of God. They must have a lot to hide from Father whom knows everything they do anyways.
I also realize that Christians don’t know the difference between being saved and what grace is. They seem to think it’s the same. It’s not.
This site has strengthened my testimony that the Christian world is very broken and without fullness of doctrine and understanding. And that the Church Jesus Christ established 2,000 years ago needed to be restored.
 
No.......they condemn themselves by their own unbelief.
Don’t you realize your Christianity is just an accident of birth?

If you were born in the Middle East, you would be Muslim
If you were born in India, you would be Hindu
if you were born in Utah, you would be Mormon
 
Can you direct me to the spirit prison scriptures? I know Paul didn't teach that. He said If you belong to Christ, absent from the body is present with the Lord. So, by the time you get to the dead Christian to baptize him, he's already up there with Jesus.

We are given an excellent account of what happens when we die. If you read about the rich man and the beggar, do you not think that every person in Hell (spiritual prison?) would have jumped at the chance to follow Christ and get the hell out of Hell if they were given that opportunity? They were not given a choice. They are still there waiting for their name to be called at the White Throne Judgment.
see post #78
 
Meanwhile, Atheists look at you all as fools obsessed with your religious fantasies
But then, by definition, atheists know nothing of religion. They say, "Since we no knowledge of religion, let's dub it a 'fantasy'." It is why atheists cannot engage in an intelligent conversation about religion/faith.
 
Reality is no matter where one is born, God's law is written upon his/her heart.
Not really
You are Christian not because it is the right religion but because your parents raised you that way
A Muslim is Muslim because he was raised that way
I am an Atheist because I was raised Catholic and realized it sounded like a bunch of fairy tales
 
Don’t you realize your Christianity is just an accident of birth?

If you were born in the Middle East, you would be Muslim
If you were born in India, you would be Hindu
if you were born in Utah, you would be Mormon
Not really
You are Christian not because it is the right religion but because your parents raised you that way
A Muslim is Muslim because he was raised that way
I am an Atheist because I was raised Catholic and realized it sounded like a bunch of fairy tales



Not all believers were born into the church or raised as Christians. Many of them do fall away from the teachings because of their lack of relationship with God.

There are many of us that have come to the faith because of things that have happened in our lives, that there is no other answer than a 'Supreme Being', and each one has their own story to tell of their faith journey. That we KNOW by experience.

Do you not know the difference between right and wrong??? Did you not know that difference even as a child???? Just because you grew away from the faith and now reject it, it doesn't take away that inborn sense of something greater than yourself is out there.

And whether you consciously believe that or not, it's still there....or you wouldn't be constantly arguing against it in every post on this board
 
Not really
You are Christian not because it is the right religion but because your parents raised you that way
A Muslim is Muslim because he was raised that way
I am an Atheist because I was raised Catholic and realized it sounded like a bunch of fairy tales
I am Christian, Catholic to be more specific, because it is what I chose. What about you? Did you research other faiths/religions and claim, too, they sound like a bunch of fairy tales?

I've always loved fairy tales, Greek/Roman mythology, and fables. I also love religion. The four differ from one another. Do you understand the differences?
 
I am Christian, Catholic to be more specific, because it is what I chose. What about you? Did you research other faiths/religions and claim, too, they sound like a bunch of fairy tales?

I've always loved fairy tales, Greek/Roman mythology, and fables. I also love religion. The four differ from one another. Do you understand the differences?
What religion were you raised?
What age were you baptized Catholic?
 
I've always loved fairy tales, Greek/Roman mythology, and fables. I also love religion. The four differ from one another. Do you understand the difference
No
 
What religion were you raised?
What age were you baptized Catholic?
I was born in America. I was raised to be an American citizen. I grew up having great respect for the Declaration of the Independence and the Constitution of the United States. My parents were Democrat, so when I reached voting age, I registered as Democrat. Ten years later, I registered as a Republican.

Growing up, I most wanted to have a horse and a dog. I had neither. I still have neither. I wanted to be a nurse (like my aunt and my grandmother) but decided I liked writing more and worked as a reporter and in public relations for a few years. What I definitely did NOT want to be was a teacher, absolutely loathed the idea. Because of a move from one state to another, into a small town, who needed only teachers, I've been a teacher for almost thirty years, and love it.

Oh, religion. I've been interested in religion since I was a toddler. I grew up in a family of Catholics, Protestants, atheists, and later on, Buddhists. At age ten I knew I would be Catholic because basically Catholicism dropped me directly into the arms of God. This was re-confirmed when I was thirteen, and periodically thereafter. The only religion/faith I was told that was not for me is The Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints. I emphasize 'me' because I was NOT told it wasn't for others.

I loved fairy tales. They all had an element of magic. There is no magic in religion. I loved mythology and all those gods and goddesses who were essentially related to one another and behaved like any other dysfunctional family and sibling rivalry was a given. There is no sibling rivalry in Trinity. Fables personified animals and their different traits were used to teach lessons to human children.

I believe I've told you before. I am not one of the blessed who believe/have faith without seeing. I can testify God IS. I can testify that His love for all is indescribable--it's that great. And I can testify He is nothing like a fairy tale, a myth, a fable, etc. He is not only truth, He is reality.

My point is, rightwinger , our environment does have an effect on who we are and what we do. However, there are other forces at work as well--chaos if you will--that boots one into situations that have an even deeper impact on where you were born and how you were raised--or even what you planned your adult life to be.
 
Oh, religion. I've been interested in religion since I was a toddler. I grew up in a family of Catholics, Protestants, atheists, and later on, Buddhists. At age ten I knew I would be Catholic because basically Catholicism dropped me directly into the arms of God. This was re-confirmed when I was thirteen, and periodically thereafter.
So like most religious folks you were raised in the faith of your parents……an accident of birth

A Muslim child raised 4000 miles away would have similar reasons to believe they have embraced the one true faith

That is why I am amused by the ultra religious who are so hostile to the idea of someone worshiping something else.
You are a product of your environment
 
So like most religious folks you were raised in the faith of your parents……an accident of birth

A Muslim child raised 4000 miles away would have similar reasons to believe they have embraced the one true faith

That is why I am amused by the ultra religious who are so hostile to the idea of someone worshiping something else.
You are a product of your environment
But you're not? What we are all products of is choice. The difference between the two of us is that I did a lot more research than you. What it boils down to is this--and I this is true of all faiths: The decision comes down to, Do I choose to do what God wants/is asking of me. Or, do I choose to do what I want. I met up with God and I knew what choice I wanted. You chose not to meet up with God because your choice was, "I want what I want." That was your environment, we can bet on that.
 
You chose not to meet up with God because your choice was, "I want what I want." That was your environment, we can bet on that
I went through 18 years of Catholic indoctrination.
Weekly mass, Sunday School all the sacraments

At about the age of 12, I started to think…..Some of this does not seem true. By 18, I realized none of it was true.
As an adult, I realized the stories I had been indoctrinated with were no more than the fairy tales I had heard. Fables to teach life lessons and lead you in the faith.
 
Same here. It might be a LDS Mormon thing? :dunno:

ETA: (Not the part about my parents being devout Christians. Mine weren't. Just the part about never having heard that from any Christians or any Christian church I've ever been to.)
Yes. It is a Mormon teaching
 

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