What government programs have you benefited from?

[RodISHI]

Benefited ? NONE
First thing first numnutz.
Your water is fluoridated and your food is genetically modified bullshit full of heavy metals.
I refer not to Ozzy Ozbornes urine, altho, if you live in LA, some traces of the drugs he used may very well be in your water supply.
Your meat is full of hormones and antibiotics and your dairy products are irradiated.
Peanuts
Spinach
Ground beef.
Nuff said.

The educational system is a joke. You are living proof. They teach you to wave flags and tell you you are number one. In your case it worked like a champ.

Your infrastructure is in a shambles. You have the shitiest railroads in the "developed" world.
So the snow plows are running.That's from your property tax.

I adopted my kids. I wasn't stupid enough to bring anyone into this world ruled by the idiot empire.
I educated them. Before it was fashionable. Then they went to college..at 16. I paid for it.

The IRS stole over 1.2 million dollars from me between 1993 and 2004.
All that money did for me was protect me from having the fucking Afghan navy beach land and attack Miami.
The airbase protected me from having Fidel and Saddam send their aircraft carriers to Biscayne Bay.

I renounced my shitizenshit so you wont have to worry about borrowing any money from China and your grandkids to pay me in old age.

Now go stare at George Washington and play with your peter.
I say George because Ben usually doesn't show up on counters in trailer parks.

Have a nice weekend

I'd say if true at least the government was not complicit in wiping you at fully so you could still pay those taxes. So your still better off than many others if that is the case.

 

[Anguille]

The best government program I ever benefitted from was a duck re-stocking program and a duck hunting license.

You're welcome !

 

[Immanuel]

The best government program I ever benefitted from was a duck re-stocking program and a duck hunting license.

You're welcome !

Please do that in the privacy of your own home and not out in public.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

Since when are the military and public schools "government programs"?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Since when are the military and public schools "government programs"?

Since they're run by the government.

 

[Modbert]

Since they're run by the government.

And funded.

 

[Ravi]

Ideally that is how it would work, but really it is not how it works.

An employer may have a budget figure available for wages, but when it comes to hiring he is going to base his employment offer on what he thinks he can hire the employee for. He would pay that salary whether or not there are unemployment taxes and if there were no unemployment taxes or employer portion of FICA taxes he is not going to up the ante for the employee. He's going to pocket the profit himself.

Immie

Yep. Employers are in business to profit. They will pay the going rate for employees. If the employee is outstanding or vital, the salary will be negotiated.

But it is good to know that employers don't actually pay anything for anyone.

But that is not what I said. I said that employers pay the market rate for an employee. I believe you said that you were a business owner. You hire your employees and you offer them what you believe they are worth. The employee asks for what he/she believes to be worth. Somewhere in the middle if you decide to hire that employee, you will agree on a salary or wage. That salary or wage includes other costs of employment i.e. payroll taxes and fringe benefits.

The employer pays the payroll taxes including the unemployment taxes, but those are part of the cost of employment.

If there were no Unemployment taxes/Social Security taxes/Medicare taxes the employer would not increase the employee's wages by that amount nor would the employer be obligated to do so. That would not stop the employee from negotiating for a higher figure, but that rarely if ever happens.

There is nothing wrong with that attitude of the employer. That is what they are in business to do. They would not be cheating the employee either. Those payroll taxes are part of the costs of the employer to hire an employee. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the employer minimizing such costs. What the removal of those taxes would do is increase the available funds that the employer could offer such an employee.

I can tell you, as a former employee, that most employees don't understand the true costs of being an employer. Nor does the employee appreciate what the employer does for him/her.

Immie

hmmm? $150 in unemployment insurance would not keep me from hiring someone. I must be misunderstanding your point.

 

[Ravi]

since when are the military and public schools "government programs"?

1776.

 

[Father Time]

if you got to keep all your tax dollars could you have paid for all that yourself.....

Military protection? Clean water? Clear roads?

Doubtful.

Why don't you tell us what you've benefited from.

what do we need military protection from.....you can make your own clean water.....we had clear roads before taxes....

other than city infrastructure not much that i can think of....i am a rich white dude that is a "partner" in a corportation....i pay for other peoples shit....

I'm not sure but I think taxes predate roads.

Let's see roads became big in Ancient Rome and we must've had taxes before then.

 

[EriktheRed]

Subsidized housing, which helped me go to school with a wife and two kids.
The VA.

 

[Samson]

Public school education, and student loans at a low interest rate (not sure though if that was gov't involvement there

Police and fireman when I had an accident, and when the store I worked for was robbed

NIH funding of research in the labs I did research in as a graduate student and as a postdoc. Plus all the benefits of medicaiton that came from NIH funding basic research, helping out biotech/pharm companies develop those findings. Plus a future job in the industry or a university

Cheap bus fare to take to work

Fed mandated vaccinations to fend of many of the nasty diseases that many people used to die from

FDA, EPA, etc that help keep our food and drugs relatively safe and prevent us from being defrauded.

Shoot, I can go on and on, which is why it pisses me off when people complain about tax money, and "I don't want my money going to this" when everybody has benefited frmo what our gov't does for us and help make us such a rich nation with a strong infrastructure and a stable gov't

Don't forget Treasury Department from which we all benefitted.

They run the IRS.

The 2010 Budget for the Treasury Department is $13.4 Billion.

I like to think all my taxes go to their budget, and they squeeze $$$ from bitches like Dr. Greeg to air-condition the Pentagon.

 

[Immanuel]

Yep. Employers are in business to profit. They will pay the going rate for employees. If the employee is outstanding or vital, the salary will be negotiated.

But it is good to know that employers don't actually pay anything for anyone.

But that is not what I said. I said that employers pay the market rate for an employee. I believe you said that you were a business owner. You hire your employees and you offer them what you believe they are worth. The employee asks for what he/she believes to be worth. Somewhere in the middle if you decide to hire that employee, you will agree on a salary or wage. That salary or wage includes other costs of employment i.e. payroll taxes and fringe benefits.

The employer pays the payroll taxes including the unemployment taxes, but those are part of the cost of employment.

If there were no Unemployment taxes/Social Security taxes/Medicare taxes the employer would not increase the employee's wages by that amount nor would the employer be obligated to do so. That would not stop the employee from negotiating for a higher figure, but that rarely if ever happens.

There is nothing wrong with that attitude of the employer. That is what they are in business to do. They would not be cheating the employee either. Those payroll taxes are part of the costs of the employer to hire an employee. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the employer minimizing such costs. What the removal of those taxes would do is increase the available funds that the employer could offer such an employee.

I can tell you, as a former employee, that most employees don't understand the true costs of being an employer. Nor does the employee appreciate what the employer does for him/her.

Immie

hmmm? $150 in unemployment insurance would not keep me from hiring someone. I must be misunderstanding your point.

You are.

The point was that if suddenly those taxes were eliminated, you as an employer are not going suddenly increase everyone of your employees wages by the amount of the tax nor should you be expected to.

As an employer you are going to offer a prospective employee a certain wage. On top of that wage you are going to have other costs i.e. unemployment tax, FICA tax, Medicare tax, most likely health insurance benefits, maybe matching funds on a 401k plan etc. etc. You have room in your budget for all of those costs.

If say the FICA tax were discontinued tomorrow, on Monday you are not going to go into the office and tell all your employees that effective immediately they have all got not only the 6.2% of their contributions in their next check but also the 6.2% that you as an employer have contributed before. Why would you and why should you?

You would in the future have more room in your budget for raises or maybe to hire additional staff, but simply because the tax was eliminated tomorrow you are not going to run in to the office on Monday and announce such an increase even though your costs have come down.

Maybe tense is the sticking point here. Let me change the tense of these paragraphs:

As an employer you are going to offer a prospective employee a certain wage. On top of that wage you are going to have other costs i.e. unemployment tax, FICA tax, Medicare tax, most likely health insurance benefits, maybe matching funds on a 401k plan etc. etc. You have room in your budget for all of those costs.


If say the FICA tax were discontinued tomorrow, on Monday you are not going to go into the office and tell all your employees that effective immediately they have all got not only the 6.2% of their contributions in their next check but also the 6.2% that you as an employer have contributed before. Why would you and why should you?

to the following:

As an employer you offered an employee that you hired a certain wage. On top of that wage you had other costs (these are costs to you as the employer) i.e. unemployment tax, FICA tax, Medicare tax, most likely health insurance benefits, maybe matching funds on a 401k plan etc. etc. You have room in your budget for all of those costs.


Now let's say the FICA tax were discontinued tomorrow, on Monday you are not going to go into the office and tell this employee that effective immediately he not only gets the 6.2% of his contributions in his next check but also the 6.2% that you as an employer have been contributing. Why would you and why should you?

Immie

 

[Oddball]

Public school education, and student loans at a low interest rate (not sure though if that was gov't involvement there

Police and fireman when I had an accident, and when the store I worked for was robbed

NIH funding of research in the labs I did research in as a graduate student and as a postdoc. Plus all the benefits of medicaiton that came from NIH funding basic research, helping out biotech/pharm companies develop those findings. Plus a future job in the industry or a university

Cheap bus fare to take to work

Fed mandated vaccinations to fend of many of the nasty diseases that many people used to die from

FDA, EPA, etc that help keep our food and drugs relatively safe and prevent us from being defrauded.

Shoot, I can go on and on, which is why it pisses me off when people complain about tax money, and "I don't want my money going to this" when everybody has benefited frmo what our gov't does for us and help make us such a rich nation with a strong infrastructure and a stable gov't

Friedrich Hayek wrote about compliant proletarians like you, in his magnum opus "The Road to Serfdom".

He was right.

 

[Ravi]

I get you Immie, and you are correct. At the same time, the additional cost of unemployment isn't being passed on to the employees or customers.
We will simply eat it.

 

[Immanuel]

I get you Immie, and you are correct. At the same time, the additional cost of unemployment isn't being passed on to the employees or customers.
We will simply eat it.

That is true.

My employer, despite the fact that he was struggling and eventually chose to eliminate my position refused to increase things like health insurance costs that he charged to the employees. He ate those himself. Nor did he pass on the additional costs of the unemployment insurance that went up 40% this year.

I believe he made a poor choice in eliminating my position because of the other options he had, but since those other options were family members... what did I have to expect? /shrug

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

OMG! I can't believe when I made my list I forgot this!

The Kentucky and Barkley dam projects here in KY. I grew up on the lake, and now have moved back to make my home where I can see KY Lake every day!

I couldn't have built this wonderful water system here. It has made a tremendous impact on my life both as an adolescent and as an adult!

maybe if you pooled you money together with some buddies who weren't with the fed---

My best friend's dad used his backhoe and dug out a hole in a creek that ran across their backyard, creating their own private lake. No government involved!

 

[midcan5]

My best friend's dad used his backhoe and dug out a hole in a creek that ran across their backyard, creating their own private lake. No government involved!

Me too. I've had friends build electric power grids, interstate highways systems, Chesapeake bay bridge tunnels, power plants, even Brooklyn bridges. And in their spare time and on weekends they defend the nation against the bad guys. Oh the magic of the individual when they set their mind to it.

Seriously, I think libertarian thinking so ridiculous, and yet so pernicious, when it come to the social commons, it is scary.

Why I Am Not a Libertarian
Why is libertarianism wrong?
Critiques Of Libertarianism: So You Want To Discuss Libertarianism....
The American Conservative -- Marxism of the Right

 

[Ravi]

My best friend's dad used his backhoe and dug out a hole in a creek that ran across their backyard, creating their own private lake. No government involved!

Me too. I've had friends build electric power grids, interstate highways systems, Chesapeake bay bridge tunnels, power plants, even Brooklyn bridges. And in their spare time and on weekends they defend the nation against the bad guys. Oh the magic of the individual when they set their mind to it.

Seriously, I think libertarian thinking so ridiculous, and yet so pernicious, when it come to the social commons, it is scary.

Why I Am Not a Libertarian
Why is libertarianism wrong?
Critiques Of Libertarianism: So You Want To Discuss Libertarianism....
The American Conservative -- Marxism of the Right

This is no surprise, as libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism.

 

[editec]

More than I am even aware of.

One of the things that is made clear to me by some of your responses is that you don't really understand that some programs for which you recieve no direct benefit, help you anyway.

For example, while I am not a frequent flyer, I benefit from the fact that other people can be, in part because our governmentS help support that industry.

And while I am NOT a prisoner, I benefit from the fact that some people who are in prison ARE prisoners.

It astounds me how many people believe that their fate is somehow indpendent from the fate of their neighbors.

What hubris to think that silly notion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I recall one or two libertarians...or conservatives (one won't admit to being either one) admitting they took government subsidized student loans, admitting they got back more tax money than they paid in, admitted that as kids they lived off of disability social security from a parents death, admitted they got free lunch because they qualified for it...and various other benefits and it got me wondering.

What government programs have you benefited from?

Here's my list, as far as I recall.

6 years of public school.
Clean water.
Uncontaminated food.
4 years publicly funded school buses.
Military protection.
Clear roads.
$250 from FEMA for hurricane damage.
Federally underwritten flood insurance.
4 years of publicly funded school for each of two kids.
1 year of bus services for 1 kid.
Scholarship for 1 kid underwritten by the state.

if you got to keep all your tax dollars could you have paid for all that yourself.....

lol, a late entry for dumbest post of the week!