What exactly is the "one state solution"?

[teddyearp]

Decolonization is the only just solution. It would be in compliance with international law and nobody's rights would be violated.

Every "solution" I have seen so far included the violation of rights.

What does that mean?

It is Timnore's way of saying that he wants the State of Israel to cease to exist. You should know that by now, hehe.

 

[teddyearp]

I would disagree here, based on opinion polls (it isn't a choice as you outline): October 2012 Yisraela Goldblum Fund poll - Wikipedia

Just want to point out a couple of problems with that poll. One of the most glaring is that it was performed in the fall of 2012, and other events since then have somewhat changed the landscape on the ground.

The other one that is actually more glaring is that it was performed by Haaretz, a newspaper that is just about as anti-Israel as can be, therefore their poll is pulled from their readership which shares their core views. Did you notice how they had to change the name of the poll?

I would be very interested to see if there could be a pro-Israel/anti-Palestine newspaper published in say, Ramallah?

 

[teddyearp]

Overall, I think that threads like this are a very refreshing change from the constant "They did this bad", but "They also did this bad" and "Hey now look at how bad this is" type threads that have populated this board for way too long. I know I have been guilty of starting a few myself. We ALL know that mistakes have been made on both sides. But a thread like this actually weeds out and exposes us all to how others really feel.

Sure, we are never going to solve the problems there, we do not have the control to do so.

But, like I said, threads like this exposes the actual core beliefs of some of the posters on both sides; it exposes the true intent of said posters, showing that some on neither side really want peace. No, they just want to keep looking at the divisions of the past and never will they look at the present, nor ever really want a solution.

I'll not name names, but interesting to me is some on the pro-Israel side post straight up that they want all the Palestinians to go elsewhere, either dead or at the point of a gun. But hey, at least they're not pulling any punches, and you know exactly where they stand. What is scary is some on the pro-Palestine side who post more discreetly by saying "End the colonization" or "occupation" or some other elusive fashion and when asked to clarify all you hear is this: Crickets.

So, tl,dr. But thanks to those of you who we have butted heads sometimes in other threads for actually providing honest, clear, and intellectual input here. It's been great!

 

[José]

Originally posted by teddyearp
But, like I said, threads like this exposes the actual core beliefs of some of the posters on both sides; it exposes the true intent of said posters, showing that some on neither side really want peace.

Teddy

Some days ago I told you something like this:

If in 2017, you still call the partition of Palestine a solution, I don't wanna see what you call a miserable failure.

Now I'm gonna paraphrase myself and tell you:

If in 2017, you still call the partition of Palestine a way to peace, I don't want to see what you call a path to an endless war.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Decolonization is the only just solution. It would be in compliance with international law and nobody's rights would be violated.

Every "solution" I have seen so far included the violation of rights.

Ha! Nice contradiction contained within your own post for all to see. Because you finally admit through your veiled "Decolonization is the only just solution" that you actually want the State of Israel to cease to exist. And then contradict it to imply that there would be no "violation of rights" in doing so.

Quit trying to unscramble eggs. The egg has been opened. Please quit looking at the past and look towards a future.

What rights would be denied if it was in compliance of international law?

 

[Shusha]

What rights would be denied if it was in compliance of international law?

Depends what "it" is. But since you never bother to explain what "it" is...how can we know?

There is a proposal on the table about what a one State solution might look like. Care to actually comment on it? Or propose a different one?

 

[Slyhunter]

Decolonization is the only just solution. It would be in compliance with international law and nobody's rights would be violated.

Every "solution" I have seen so far included the violation of rights.

Ha! Nice contradiction contained within your own post for all to see. Because you finally admit through your veiled "Decolonization is the only just solution" that you actually want the State of Israel to cease to exist. And then contradict it to imply that there would be no "violation of rights" in doing so.

Quit trying to unscramble eggs. The egg has been opened. Please quit looking at the past and look towards a future.

What rights would be denied if it was in compliance of international law?

The Jewish rights to live freely in their own country of heritage promised to them by God to the Israelites.

 

[Humanity]

The onus is on you to post a link to your cut and (edit) paste

Here's a link... In The Name Of Allah - Spoils of War

Though I still cannot find what was quoted...

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The onus is on you to post a link to your cut and (edit) paste

Here's a link... In The Name Of Allah - Spoils of War

Though I still cannot find what was quoted...

Islam is a sick death cult.

 

[Humanity]

The onus is on you to post a link to your cut and (edit) paste

Here's a link... In The Name Of Allah - Spoils of War

Though I still cannot find what was quoted...

Islam is a sick death cult.

No it's not...

 

[Slyhunter]

The onus is on you to post a link to your cut and (edit) paste

Here's a link... In The Name Of Allah - Spoils of War

Though I still cannot find what was quoted...

Islam is a sick death cult.

No it's not...

Yes it is.

 

[teddyearp]

If in 2017, you still call the partition of Palestine a way to peace, I don't want to see what you call a path to an endless war.

I don't know, I really don't know. Maybe I am dreaming to hpoe that there can can be a way the two can share the area. With attitudes like your post projects, it can only be one or the other, correct? Or did I understand you wrong?

 

[José]

Originally posted by teddyearp
I don't know, I really don't know. Maybe I am dreaming to hpoe that there can can be a way the two can share the area. With attitudes like your post projects, it can only be one or the other, correct? Or did I understand you wrong?

In other words, you're calling me a radical for supporting the dismantlement of the state of Israel.

But regardless of how you classify my utterly IRRELEVANT, SUBJECTIVE personal opinion, it doesn't change the OBJECTIVE facts on the ground:

The partition of Palestine is a 120 year miserable failure.

The people of Palestine rejected a jewish state in the region in 1880 when the first zionist settlers arrived.

They rejected it in 1948 when the state of Israel was created.

They reject it now in 2017.

And they will still reject it in 2120.

You're free to judge and classify personal opinions regarding the dismantling of Israel any way you want, but you're not free to deny facts.

Call 99% of the palestinian people a bunch of extremists.

Feel free to portray yourself as a moderate debating with José, Tinmore and Challenger, the fanatics of the US Message Board.

Call me a radical, an extremist, call me everything you want, teddy... but do not try to deny a reality that's in front of your eyes:

The partition of Palestine has been a colossal disaster in the last 120 years and will continue to be a disaster for the next 120.

The truth is always true, no matter who tells it: moderates or radicals.

Contrary to what the western propaganda says, the arabs of Palestine, since the end of the 19th century, have been consistently rejecting the creation of a jewish state in Palestine so the partition of Palestine is anything but a path to peace.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Originally posted by teddyearp
I don't know, I really don't know. Maybe I am dreaming to hpoe that there can can be a way the two can share the area. With attitudes like your post projects, it can only be one or the other, correct? Or did I understand you wrong?

In other words, you're calling me a radical for supporting the dismantlement of the state of Israel.

But regardless of how you classify my utterly IRRELEVANT, SUBJECTIVE personal opinion, it doesn't change the OBJECTIVE facts on the ground:

The partition of Palestine is a 120 year miserable failure.

The people of Palestine rejected a jewish state in the region in 1880 when the first zionist settlers arrived.

They rejected it in 1948 when the state of Israel was created.

They reject it now in 2017.

And they will still reject it in 2120.

You're free to judge and classify personal opinions regarding the dismantling of Israel any way you want, but you're not free to deny facts.

Call 99% of the palestinian people a bunch of extremists.

Feel free to portray yourself as a moderate debating José, Tinmore and Challenger, the fanatics of the US Message Board.

Call me a radical, an extremist, call me everything you want, teddy... but do not try to deny a reality that's in front of your eyes:

The partition of Palestine has been a colossal disaster in the last 120 years and will continue to be a disaster for the next 120.

The truth is always true, no matter who tells it: moderates or radicals.

Contrary to what the western propaganda says, the arabs of Palestine, since the end of the 19th century, have been consistently rejecting the creation of a jewish state in Palestine so the partition of Palestine is anything but a path to peace.

I think you mean the partition of Eretz Yisroel, not Palestine. And BTW, the Arch of Titus in Rome clearly shows Jewish slaves and artifacts from the Temple being brought to Rome. It's not such a long distance from Western to Eastern Europe. And I have the Kohen gene.

 

[Challenger]

Originally posted by teddyearp
I don't know, I really don't know. Maybe I am dreaming to hpoe that there can can be a way the two can share the area. With attitudes like your post projects, it can only be one or the other, correct? Or did I understand you wrong?

In other words, you're calling me a radical for supporting the dismantlement of the state of Israel.

But regardless of how you classify my utterly IRRELEVANT, SUBJECTIVE personal opinion, it doesn't change the OBJECTIVE facts on the ground:

The partition of Palestine is a 120 year miserable failure.

The people of Palestine rejected a jewish state in the region in 1880 when the first zionist settlers arrived.

They rejected it in 1948 when the state of Israel was created.

They reject it now in 2017.

And they will still reject it in 2120.

You're free to judge and classify personal opinions regarding the dismantling of Israel any way you want, but you're not free to deny facts.

Call 99% of the palestinian people a bunch of extremists.

Feel free to portray yourself as a moderate debating with José, Tinmore and Challenger, the fanatics of the US Message Board.

Call me a radical, an extremist, call me everything you want, teddy... but do not try to deny a reality that's in front of your eyes:

The partition of Palestine has been a colossal disaster in the last 120 years and will continue to be a disaster for the next 120.

The truth is always true, no matter who tells it: moderates or radicals.

Contrary to what the western propaganda says, the arabs of Palestine, since the end of the 19th century, have been consistently rejecting the creation of a jewish state in Palestine so the partition of Palestine is anything but a path to peace.

That hits the nail right on the head. There can never be peace so long as Zionist exclusivity means that the indigenous Palestinians are second class (at best) citizens in their own lands. Going forward both Jewish and Muslim need to come together as one community in a truely democratic state with equality for all it's citizens, regardless of religion.

 

[Challenger]

Originally posted by teddyearp
I don't know, I really don't know. Maybe I am dreaming to hpoe that there can can be a way the two can share the area. With attitudes like your post projects, it can only be one or the other, correct? Or did I understand you wrong?

In other words, you're calling me a radical for supporting the dismantlement of the state of Israel.

But regardless of how you classify my utterly IRRELEVANT, SUBJECTIVE personal opinion, it doesn't change the OBJECTIVE facts on the ground:

The partition of Palestine is a 120 year miserable failure.

The people of Palestine rejected a jewish state in the region in 1880 when the first zionist settlers arrived.

They rejected it in 1948 when the state of Israel was created.

They reject it now in 2017.

And they will still reject it in 2120.

You're free to judge and classify personal opinions regarding the dismantling of Israel any way you want, but you're not free to deny facts.

Call 99% of the palestinian people a bunch of extremists.

Feel free to portray yourself as a moderate debating José, Tinmore and Challenger, the fanatics of the US Message Board.

Call me a radical, an extremist, call me everything you want, teddy... but do not try to deny a reality that's in front of your eyes:

The partition of Palestine has been a colossal disaster in the last 120 years and will continue to be a disaster for the next 120.

The truth is always true, no matter who tells it: moderates or radicals.

Contrary to what the western propaganda says, the arabs of Palestine, since the end of the 19th century, have been consistently rejecting the creation of a jewish state in Palestine so the partition of Palestine is anything but a path to peace.

I think you mean the partition of Eretz Yisroel, not Palestine. And BTW, the Arch of Titus in Rome clearly shows Jewish slaves and artifacts from the Temple being brought to Rome. It's not such a long distance from Western to Eastern Europe. And I have the Kohen gene.

The arch of Titus (technically should be the arch of Domitian as he had it built) shows Roman soldiers carrying treasures from the sack of Jerusalem, there are no slaves or captives depicted. This is a long debunked Zionist myth.

It's also curious that it's not such a long distance from Western to Eastern Europe, and neither is it from Europe to Palestine, yet for over a millenium when there was no war or other conflicts to prevent them travelling and no laws foebidding travel to Palestine, that the so called "Jewish people" never bothered to fulfill their "yearning" for being in Jerusalem next year.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Originally posted by teddyearp
I don't know, I really don't know. Maybe I am dreaming to hpoe that there can can be a way the two can share the area. With attitudes like your post projects, it can only be one or the other, correct? Or did I understand you wrong?

In other words, you're calling me a radical for supporting the dismantlement of the state of Israel.

But regardless of how you classify my utterly IRRELEVANT, SUBJECTIVE personal opinion, it doesn't change the OBJECTIVE facts on the ground:

The partition of Palestine is a 120 year miserable failure.

The people of Palestine rejected a jewish state in the region in 1880 when the first zionist settlers arrived.

They rejected it in 1948 when the state of Israel was created.

They reject it now in 2017.

And they will still reject it in 2120.

You're free to judge and classify personal opinions regarding the dismantling of Israel any way you want, but you're not free to deny facts.

Call 99% of the palestinian people a bunch of extremists.

Feel free to portray yourself as a moderate debating José, Tinmore and Challenger, the fanatics of the US Message Board.

Call me a radical, an extremist, call me everything you want, teddy... but do not try to deny a reality that's in front of your eyes:

The partition of Palestine has been a colossal disaster in the last 120 years and will continue to be a disaster for the next 120.

The truth is always true, no matter who tells it: moderates or radicals.

Contrary to what the western propaganda says, the arabs of Palestine, since the end of the 19th century, have been consistently rejecting the creation of a jewish state in Palestine so the partition of Palestine is anything but a path to peace.

I think you mean the partition of Eretz Yisroel, not Palestine. And BTW, the Arch of Titus in Rome clearly shows Jewish slaves and artifacts from the Temple being brought to Rome. It's not such a long distance from Western to Eastern Europe. And I have the Kohen gene.

The arch of Titus (technically should be the arch of Domitian as he had it built) shows Roman soldiers carrying treasures from the sack of Jerusalem, there are no slaves or captives depicted. This is a long debunked Zionist myth.

It's also curious that it's not such a long distance from Western to Eastern Europe, and neither is it from Europe to Palestine, yet for over a millenium when there was no war or other conflicts to prevent them travelling and no laws foebidding travel to Palestine, that the so called "Jewish people" never bothered to fulfill their "yearning" for being in Jerusalem next year.

monte says that 90,000 Jews were taken to Rome.

 

[Challenger]

...monte says that 90,000 Jews were taken to Rome.

I think you'll find that monte was citing from Flavius Josephus' account. However, Josephus is widely known to have exaggerated numbers. S. J. D. Cohen, for example in his biography of Josephus, "Josephus in Galilee and Rome, his Vita and Development as a Historian", says he was "sloppy"and says he was prone to exaggeration, inconsistency and, "corrupt transmission of names and numbers". I'd take that "90,000" and knock a few "0"s off, especially as he gives the total military strength of the rebels at the start of the war at 23,400.

Fun though this is, we're straying off topic.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ali Abunimah at the One State Conference

 

[Shusha]

P F Tinmore

See, the above videos are exactly the rhetoric which demonizes Israel and demonizes even the Jewish desire for self-determination. There is no path to a solution to be found there. It gets us absolutely no where.

A solution can only be found with mutual respect.