Debunking myths by the pro Israeli lobbyists

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

I believe that Israel has a right to exist. But common sense would tell us that much of the attitude from pro Israeli lobbyist in the American media is bad for the future of Israel. …by large it’s the people of Israel that are saying things like this. They don’t agree with Netanyahu, the Israeli lobbyists or the US media.

Let’s look at some of the talking points that has been regurgitated by pro Israel lobbyists in the American media. And how they are very easily debunked.

”Israel is surrounded by enemies.”

no they are not. Israel is surrounded by allies like Jordan and a growing number of Muslim countries.

“ if Hamas layed down their weapons, there will be peace, if Israel set down their weapons, Israel will be annihilated”.

Pitiful propaganda there are Jewish settlers who have committed criminal actions against Christians. There are Jewish people in Israel who have openly said the Torah allows for Christians to be killed. And what weapons do Palestinians have ?? they have nothing. They have nothing they don’t even have an Air Force or tanks. Israel has the most sophisticated military equipment on the planets.

“Oct 7 oct 7 oct 7”——

actually the conflict goes back decades. Conservatives in America, like Charlie Kirk suggested that a stand down order may have been given by the IDF to allow the attack to occur. Many people in Israel are wondering the same thing. Many people have brought forth the view that Israel created and maintained Hamas.

“Islam is the problem” —-

no Arab Christians are just as much if not more fervently opposed to Israel… look at how Ted Cruz got booed by Arab Christians when he brought up supporting Israel a few years ago ago. And people who know better understand that Arab nationalism of the 20th century was inclusive of Arab Christians, Atheists, Muslims and Jews opposed to Zionism.

“ antisemitism is on the rise in the USA”

no it’s not … and what they mean is anti-Jewish views as Arab Muslims and Christian’s are semitic people. Such an allegation is a BLM tactic and it is suggesting that our own friends and family in America are against Jews. That is improper and an uncivilized way to approach this issue. People who hold such views sound like crybabies when they complain about “anti-Semitism in America” The only casualty related to the conflict in Gaza as far as I know in America has been a young Palestinian boy murdered shortly after October 7 by some fanatic driven by pro Israel, coverage in the US media. It’s also massive gaslighting by the Israeli lobby and attempt to distract from the 30,000 dead Palestinians in the israeli operation in Gaza.


Again, all of these types of pro Israel propaganda talking points constitute despicable behavior by the Israeli lobby. They come off as crybabies. They are the one with the iron fist. They are the overlord of the Palestinian territories. They can do whatever they want whenever they want to these territories and nobody does anything about it. They control the water, food, and supplies into the Palestinian territories. Turkey and Iran talk a big game and do absolutely nothing. Have any of these countries launched airstrikes against Tel Aviv??? no they have not. The only thing that happens is a few pot smoking hippies in the USA complain about Israel on college campuses and that’s it. And in response to that, the dishonest pro israel people in the media talk about how there’s some kind of “new wave of Nazism against Israel”. It’s total propaganda and gaslighting.

I feel for the honorable Jewish people in Israel and the Israeli military who do not want to be a part of the victimhood mentality. Israelis are not victims today far far from it. They have military superiority over the Palestinian territories. It’s not even close. And a lot of people. They want to be able to make their own Air Force like they try to the 1980s, but it was blocked by US politicians.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Cooking kids is enlightened I guess eh.

 

[Godboy]

There are Jewish people in Israel who have openly said the Torah allows for Christians to be killed.

Killing people over religion is a muslim problem, not a jewish one. When you predictably produce some rare one-off example of a jew killing a muslim, im going to point to the many THOUSANDS of times it was the other way around. Deal?

 

[Stryder50]

I believe that Israel has a right to exist. But common sense would tell us that much of the attitude from pro Israeli lobbyist in the American media is bad for the future of Israel. …by large it’s the people of Israel that are saying things like this. They don’t agree with Netanyahu, the Israeli lobbyists or the US media.

Let’s look at some of the talking points that has been regurgitated by pro Israel lobbyists in the American media. And how they are very easily debunked.

”Israel is surrounded by enemies.”

no they are not. Israel is surrounded by allies like Jordan and a growing number of Muslim countries.

“ if Hamas layed down their weapons, there will be peace, if Israel set down their weapons, Israel will be annihilated”.

Pitiful propaganda there are Jewish settlers who have committed criminal actions against Christians. There are Jewish people in Israel who have openly said the Torah allows for Christians to be killed. And what weapons do Palestinians have ?? they have nothing. They have nothing they don’t even have an Air Force or tanks. Israel has the most sophisticated military equipment on the planets.

“Oct 7 oct 7 oct 7”——

actually the conflict goes back decades. Conservatives in America, like Charlie Kirk suggested that a stand down order may have been given by the IDF to allow the attack to occur. Many people in Israel are wondering the same thing. Many people have brought forth the view that Israel created and maintained Hamas.

“Islam is the problem” —-

no Arab Christians are just as much if not more fervently opposed to Israel… look at how Ted Cruz got booed by Arab Christians when he brought up supporting Israel a few years ago ago. And people who know better understand that Arab nationalism of the 20th century was inclusive of Arab Christians, Atheists, Muslims and Jews opposed to Zionism.

“ antisemitism is on the rise in the USA”

no it’s not … and what they mean is anti-Jewish views as Arab Muslims and Christian’s are semitic people. Such an allegation is a BLM tactic and it is suggesting that our own friends and family in America are against Jews. That is improper and an uncivilized way to approach this issue. People who hold such views sound like crybabies when they complain about “anti-Semitism in America” The only casualty related to the conflict in Gaza as far as I know in America has been a young Palestinian boy murdered shortly after October 7 by some fanatic driven by pro Israel, coverage in the US media. It’s also massive gaslighting by the Israeli lobby and attempt to distract from the 30,000 dead Palestinians in the israeli operation in Gaza.


Again, all of these types of pro Israel propaganda talking points constitute despicable behavior by the Israeli lobby. They come off as crybabies. They are the one with the iron fist. They are the overlord of the Palestinian territories. They can do whatever they want whenever they want to these territories and nobody does anything about it. They control the water, food, and supplies into the Palestinian territories. Turkey and Iran talk a big game and do absolutely nothing. Have any of these countries launched airstrikes against Tel Aviv??? no they have not. The only thing that happens is a few pot smoking hippies in the USA complain about Israel on college campuses and that’s it. And in response to that, the dishonest pro israel people in the media talk about how there’s some kind of “new wave of Nazism against Israel”. It’s total propaganda and gaslighting.

I feel for the honorable Jewish people in Israel and the Israeli military who do not want to be a part of the victimhood mentality. Israelis are not victims today far far from it. They have military superiority over the Palestinian territories. It’s not even close. And a lot of people. They want to be able to make their own Air Force like they try to the 1980s, but it was blocked by US politicians.

Readily countered, as we see from many of the latter day neo-Nazis around the world, but not "debunked" !
”Israel is surrounded by enemies.”
They have been for most of their modern existence. Just look at the forces arrayed against them in the 1948 war, and the next few rematch wars. True that Jordan and Egypt have chilled a bit and currently at peaces with Israel, but political factions in power could easily change in those nations back to regimes with a harsh anti-Israel position. There are still enough enemies in the region and around the world for Israel to remain on guard and ready for decades into the future.

“ if Hamas layed down their weapons, there will be peace, if Israel set down their weapons, Israel will be annihilated”.
Well, there's more than Hamas out there gunning for Israel. There is Hezbollah to the North and Iran as well, which recently tried to bombard Israel with over 300 air-attack weapons. And an assortment of Islamic Jihad organizations which keep Israel on the top of their target lists.
Interesting that you focus only on the Palestinians, and note the many other enemies of Israel, whom do have tanks and warplanes at their disposal. Hamas/Palestinians do have rockets and missiles which they had been shooting at Israel for years now.

But it's not just Hamas, or "Palestinians" that are the only threat to Israel, so even if Hamas "layed down there weapons" there would still be no peace, or end to random attacks from the other factions of Islamic Jihad that want to see Israel destroyed. Remember, since 1948 the war/conflict hasn't really ended, only had short periods of low intensity while the aggressors rebuild weapons inventories, etc. and there are still too many who want the land of Israel returned to the Dar al-Islam. Israel will have to be on guard and ready to defend for a long time still.

While Israel has some of the most sophisticated weapons in human hands on this planet, they aren't invincible, nor have all the quality and quantity of nations like the USA, or CCP China, or Russia, etc.

Hamas(Palestinians), Hezbollah, ISIS, etc. are just the canon-fodder in this perpetual conflict. They are just the pawns on the game board so to speak. And Israel is a small nation with a relatively small population compared to it's enemies. Much of the military are reservists whom if activated, aren't doing their jobs, running their businesses to keep the economy going. Whereas Hamas and others have larger, full-time and paid cadre' to always call upon. Those petro-dollar$ at work ....

“Oct 7 oct 7 oct 7”——
True the conflict goes back for decades, longer actually (like millennia). But this was the most recent and bloodiest, and most horrifying display of hatred for Jews since the Holocaust. It's possible that Intel failures made the surprise attack possible, but the disarming of the public, Israel's own misapplied "gun control" might be partly (largely?) to blame since many of the civilian targets had no firearms and other weapons to respond with in their defense.

It's sheer pravda propaganda to think Israel created or maintained Hamas, or any other Islamic Jihad org. Israel may have made a mistake in thinking Hamas could be negotiated and reasoned with mad Israel may have tried to play politics using Hamas to counter other Palestinian/Islamic enemies, but Israel wouldn't have the resources to waste on supporting an enemy, nor anything to gain with doing a false-flag sort of attack to be a caus belli.

“Islam is the problem” —-
Sorry Charlie, but Islam is the problem, has been for about 1400 years now. While Mohammad might have thought he was just starting a religion to unite his Arab people, it wasn't long before that project got larger than planned. Mohammad himself, in one of his final instructions, revelations said he'd been commanded by Allah/Gawd to convert the whole world, all humanity to Islam. By whatever means available, including conquest and forced conversions. For that matter, Islamic scriptures describe Paradise/Heaven as multiple levels and the higher levels with more and greater rewards can only be attained via results in battle against the infidels = non-Muslims. In essence, Islam was set-up to be a source for perpetual warfare until the whole planet has been converted, accepts Allah.

Another relevant aspect of Islam is that any lands once under Islamic control, Sharia Law, etc. is to be considered always an Islamic land, part of the Dar al-Islam ~ World of Islam. If that land is taken by others, lost, then it must be returned to Dar al-Islam. When I show maps of Islamic conquest, later in another post, it will be enlightening to see what lands once under Islam, but not so at the moment, will be on the future target lists. For now though, the Levant ~ Israel/Palestine is the major focus, primary target.

“ antisemitism is on the rise in the USA”
Not just in the USA, but around the world it appears. And quibbling over semantics is another form of gaslighting. Common usage of the term has meant "anti-Jewish" for decades now. Just another aspect of the imprecise and sloppy language often used. We say healthcare, but seldom use it to mean actual "taking care of one's health" = good nutrition, exercise, plenty of sleep , healthy lifestyle, etc.; often it also means "medical treatment" or "medical care insurance". "Climate change" dialogue is another example. Seldom is it clarified if it is Natural or Human Caused that is the topic focus, just like the addition of "denier" seldom clarifies either of those poles.

The deaths in Gaza are the fault of Hamas for hiding among the civilians and using them as human shields. Insult to injury is how this killing of civilians caused by Hamas' actions is allowed to distract from the butchery Hamas did on Oct. 7 to start this whole escalation. Hamas and Hezbollah are proxy military for Iran. Similar to what the US dealt with in Iraq during it's al-Sadr insurrection after Saddam's regime had been disposed of. The airstrike attempt by Iran using drones, ballistic missiles and cruise missile, totaling about 320, could have been a very lethal blow had Israel not had the anti-missile capabilities it did.

Thanks to the Obama and now Biden Administrations in the POTUS, lifting sanctions and unfreezing assets, Iran may have it's nuclear bomb within the year and then things will get very messy in the Middle East. Unless Israel, or "someone" makes an effective aerial attack on Iran's nuclear weapon production facilities.

The Jews aren't out to convert the world to Judism. After the way they were treated 80 years ago, they just want their homeland back and to be left alone in peace. Unfortunately, they seem to be a focus of powers and interests , mostly malevolent, who treat them as a threat far beyond what they are , or would want to be. I'm not a religious person, but increasingly it looks like there are agencies beyond humans alone, that have an interest in this situation and may be stirring the pot for their own purposes.

Unfortunately, we (this whole world) are entering those cursed "Interesting Times".

 

[Stryder50]

I'll probably have to show these on another thread or two, but I mentioned them here first, so ...

This shows the early decades/centuries of Islam's spread from being just a local religion for the tribes of the Arabian desert into an expansionist, conquest movement. Note that most of the Western world has forgotten, and/or didn't know much about, the spread of Christianity Eastward into Asia. Unfortunately most of these early church communities were either destroyed or "converted" in Islamic conquest to the East into Asia a few centuries later.

The Islamic Conquests to 750 – Mapping Globalization

https://commons.princeton.edu/mg/wp...MG-Expansion_of_the_Islamic_World_to_1500.jpg
Expansion up to c.1500

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/ugcvudq3mp811.png
With slight adjustment at present, the extent of the Dar al-Islam.

 

[gipper]

Cooking kids is enlightened I guess eh.

Yet another one who bought the propaganda. You’re concerned about Israeli civilians murdered, but could careless about the tens of thousands of innocents your beloved Israel has murdered.

You might be a psychopath like Bibi, Don, and Joe.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Yet another one who bought the propaganda. You’re concerned about Israeli civilians murdered, but could careless about the tens of thousands of innocents your beloved Israel has murdered.

You might be a psychopath like Bibi, Don, and Joe.

Yeah that's it......you swallow reeealll good

 

[gipper]

Yeah that's it......you swallow reeealll good

Lol. You’re the one who accepted propaganda as fact. Try to learn something REAL for once.

 

[DGS49]

Every single point in the OP is factually incorrect (as Stryder50 explained above).

While the history of this region goes back thousands of years, the relevant history pretty much starts with the Balfour Declaration, by which Britain - which had governing control over the region through an internationally recognized "mandate" - committed to the creation of a Jewish state, without compromising the interests of the indigenous Arabs and Christians. The U.N. proposed Arab and Jewish states (countries), which the Jews accepted (although its piece of the pie was smaller), and the Arab spokesmen rejected. Subsequently, Israel declared its statehood/existence, and the surrounding Arab states declared war on it. They lost.

The Israel "charter" invited the indigenous Arabs to remain where they were and become a part of the Israeli society, but the Arab antagonists encouraged them to GTFO - that they would be endangered or killed when they - the Arabs - destroyed the new State of Israel. Didn't work out that way, and the Arabs who left (and their millions of descendants) REMAIN, more than seventy years later classified as "refugees," which is preposterous by anyone's definition. One of the Arab "demands" for peace in Israel is that the Israeli government accept these millions of budding terrorists back into the country. It is also noteworthy that none of the Arab surrounding countries wants anything to do with the "Palestinian refugees" either, and they remain little more than a pathetic "welfare state," supported by the U.N., the U.S., and other countries stupid enough to support them.

The sad fact is that every opinion poll agrees that few "Palestinians" would ever consent to living peacefully alongside or in a Jewish State, so the "Two-State Solution" was killed on October 7th, along with the thousand-plus Israeli's and others.

In the DECADES preceding October 7th, Hamas had continuously launched unprovoked rocket and other attacks on the State of Israel, targeting civilian communities and outposts, all of them paid for by "humanitarian" assistance for "Palestine." Hence, the IDF's campaign to eradicate Hamas is fully justified, and the only acceptable conclusion will be when Hamas lays down its arms, releases all hostages (living and dead), and formally surrenders.

Pushing for a cessation of hostilities on the Israeli side would be like asking the same of U.S. forces in Japan, as the Japanese continued to torture and kill POW's, shoot at us, and prepare its civilian population to fight to the death in the event of a U.S. land invasion.

The Left's support for Gaza is based solely on the bizarre application of its "Oppressor-Oppressed" paradigm in this situation where it has no logical basis. So unfortunately, the Left is both stupid and evil.

Once again.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Readily countered, as we see from many of the latter day neo-Nazis around the world, but not "debunked" !
”Israel is surrounded by enemies.”
They have been for most of their modern existence. Just look at the forces arrayed against them in the 1948 war, and the next few rematch wars. True that Jordan and Egypt have chilled a bit and currently at peaces with Israel, but political factions in power could easily change in those nations back to regimes with a harsh anti-Israel position. There are still enough enemies in the region and around the world for Israel to remain on guard and ready for decades into the future.

“ if Hamas layed down their weapons, there will be peace, if Israel set down their weapons, Israel will be annihilated”.
Well, there's more than Hamas out there gunning for Israel. There is Hezbollah to the North and Iran as well, which recently tried to bombard Israel with over 300 air-attack weapons. And an assortment of Islamic Jihad organizations which keep Israel on the top of their target lists.
Interesting that you focus only on the Palestinians, and note the many other enemies of Israel, whom do have tanks and warplanes at their disposal. Hamas/Palestinians do have rockets and missiles which they had been shooting at Israel for years now.

But it's not just Hamas, or "Palestinians" that are the only threat to Israel, so even if Hamas "layed down there weapons" there would still be no peace, or end to random attacks from the other factions of Islamic Jihad that want to see Israel destroyed. Remember, since 1948 the war/conflict hasn't really ended, only had short periods of low intensity while the aggressors rebuild weapons inventories, etc. and there are still too many who want the land of Israel returned to the Dar al-Islam. Israel will have to be on guard and ready to defend for a long time still.

While Israel has some of the most sophisticated weapons in human hands on this planet, they aren't invincible, nor have all the quality and quantity of nations like the USA, or CCP China, or Russia, etc.

Hamas(Palestinians), Hezbollah, ISIS, etc. are just the canon-fodder in this perpetual conflict. They are just the pawns on the game board so to speak. And Israel is a small nation with a relatively small population compared to it's enemies. Much of the military are reservists whom if activated, aren't doing their jobs, running their businesses to keep the economy going. Whereas Hamas and others have larger, full-time and paid cadre' to always call upon. Those petro-dollar$ at work ....

“Oct 7 oct 7 oct 7”——
True the conflict goes back for decades, longer actually (like millennia). But this was the most recent and bloodiest, and most horrifying display of hatred for Jews since the Holocaust. It's possible that Intel failures made the surprise attack possible, but the disarming of the public, Israel's own misapplied "gun control" might be partly (largely?) to blame since many of the civilian targets had no firearms and other weapons to respond with in their defense.

It's sheer pravda propaganda to think Israel created or maintained Hamas, or any other Islamic Jihad org. Israel may have made a mistake in thinking Hamas could be negotiated and reasoned with mad Israel may have tried to play politics using Hamas to counter other Palestinian/Islamic enemies, but Israel wouldn't have the resources to waste on supporting an enemy, nor anything to gain with doing a false-flag sort of attack to be a caus belli.

“Islam is the problem” —-
Sorry Charlie, but Islam is the problem, has been for about 1400 years now. While Mohammad might have thought he was just starting a religion to unite his Arab people, it wasn't long before that project got larger than planned. Mohammad himself, in one of his final instructions, revelations said he'd been commanded by Allah/Gawd to convert the whole world, all humanity to Islam. By whatever means available, including conquest and forced conversions. For that matter, Islamic scriptures describe Paradise/Heaven as multiple levels and the higher levels with more and greater rewards can only be attained via results in battle against the infidels = non-Muslims. In essence, Islam was set-up to be a source for perpetual warfare until the whole planet has been converted, accepts Allah.

Another relevant aspect of Islam is that any lands once under Islamic control, Sharia Law, etc. is to be considered always an Islamic land, part of the Dar al-Islam ~ World of Islam. If that land is taken by others, lost, then it must be returned to Dar al-Islam. When I show maps of Islamic conquest, later in another post, it will be enlightening to see what lands once under Islam, but not so at the moment, will be on the future target lists. For now though, the Levant ~ Israel/Palestine is the major focus, primary target.

“ antisemitism is on the rise in the USA”
Not just in the USA, but around the world it appears. And quibbling over semantics is another form of gaslighting. Common usage of the term has meant "anti-Jewish" for decades now. Just another aspect of the imprecise and sloppy language often used. We say healthcare, but seldom use it to mean actual "taking care of one's health" = good nutrition, exercise, plenty of sleep , healthy lifestyle, etc.; often it also means "medical treatment" or "medical care insurance". "Climate change" dialogue is another example. Seldom is it clarified if it is Natural or Human Caused that is the topic focus, just like the addition of "denier" seldom clarifies either of those poles.

The deaths in Gaza are the fault of Hamas for hiding among the civilians and using them as human shields. Insult to injury is how this killing of civilians caused by Hamas' actions is allowed to distract from the butchery Hamas did on Oct. 7 to start this whole escalation. Hamas and Hezbollah are proxy military for Iran. Similar to what the US dealt with in Iraq during it's al-Sadr insurrection after Saddam's regime had been disposed of. The airstrike attempt by Iran using drones, ballistic missiles and cruise missile, totaling about 320, could have been a very lethal blow had Israel not had the anti-missile capabilities it did.

Thanks to the Obama and now Biden Administrations in the POTUS, lifting sanctions and unfreezing assets, Iran may have it's nuclear bomb within the year and then things will get very messy in the Middle East. Unless Israel, or "someone" makes an effective aerial attack on Iran's nuclear weapon production facilities.

The Jews aren't out to convert the world to Judism. After the way they were treated 80 years ago, they just want their homeland back and to be left alone in peace. Unfortunately, they seem to be a focus of powers and interests , mostly malevolent, who treat them as a threat far beyond what they are , or would want to be. I'm not a religious person, but increasingly it looks like there are agencies beyond humans alone, that have an interest in this situation and may be stirring the pot for their own purposes.

Unfortunately, we (this whole world) are entering those cursed "Interesting Times".

A lot of well thought out points, my friend. In response, one can say that in the ancient Judaism, it was a religion of proselytization. Now not so much.

I doubt that most Iranian people even want to go to war with Israel. It’s the Islamic government of Iran, which the western world allowed to come to power 1979. Iranians are very cultured people with a beautiful Persian history. Under the shah they the Iranian women dressed however they wanted to they were allied to the west. Even to this very day tons of women in Iran no longer wear a head scarf. a lot of of the propaganda that Israel and Neo con Americans puts out about Iran is despicable and has nothing to do with the truth. The problem is the Iranian Islamic government not the Iranian people. if the West was not so hypocritical, they wouldn’t devote tons of military resources to Ukraine they would devote some of those resources to getting rid of the Islamic government in Iran. There is still a level of popularity in Iran that want a return to the monarchy. The Iranian monarchy under the shah was actually allied to Israel.

As for the October 7 attack no it cannot be defined as an attack against “the Jews” a lot of controversy there by the way when people use that term “the Jews”, what does it mean? What are they talking about. Well many have said that there is no race by Judaism, but only a religion including Jews themselves. Keep in mind it was the white Christians from the third Reich, which attempted to denote Jews as a race and they wiped out 6 million Jews something that is by far and wide the greatest attack on people identifying as Jewish or whoever the third reich identified is Jews. Nothing comes close to it, and it really is wrong for modern people to attempt to equate anyone modern to the third reich .

Ok Ron Paul and others in the USA have suggested that Israel created and maintain Hamas, or they felt that it was going to be a bul work against the more secular oriented PLO. Slowing down and looking at things Think about how it benefits Israel to have an enemy like him. More people in the western world would be inclined to support Israel or Palestine because of Hamas being a father right wing conservative religious group. As a post to the more secular nature of Arab nationalism, which supported the Palestinian cause. It’s something to critically think about and you from a non-bias perspective. It has to be considered and included in your thoughts that historically speaking christians from Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and all over the Arab world have been supportive of the Palestinian cause in the 20th century. Just like it must be considered and included in my thoughts that Christians in the western world have been supportive of the cause of Israel.

We’ve been hearing about “Iran getting the bomb” for 40 years. It’s ridiculous. It’s getting tiring hearing this propaganda constantly. Maybe the USA should’ve done more to support Iraq as we were allied with Iraq in the 1980s against Iran. Ironically Israel helped Islamic Iran bomb the Iraqi nuclear facility in the 1980s. might as well talk about the danger of Israel having a nuclear weapon. We live in a world where Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons but haven’t used them against each other even though there is a rivalry between two countries. That’s just a world we live in some countries have nuclear weapons. if people want to criticize one country for having a nuclear weapon in it being dangerous, they would have to supply the same logic to Israel and their nuclear program.

Also oct7 it cannot be viewed as an attack against Jews…. by who by Muslims, by Hamas.?? Certainly Hamas did attack Israeli people. And it’s very controversial about how it happened again. You have conservatives like Charlie Kirk saying a stand down order may have been given by the IDF. Who attacked israelis ??? it was Hamas. It wasn’t all Muslims even though some people would make that implication. Because for example, there’s something like 15,000 Jews living in Iran if there was some kind of a attempt to wipeout Jews, those 15,000 Jews in Iran would be wiped out by now, but they are clearly not. They are in fact, a part of the Iranian military and Iranian political atmosphere. There’s also also something like 20!,000 Jews living in Turkey.


There’s controversy about Irans drone attack against Israel… but it does show us the cemented fact that Israel is surrounded by allies …we can see that Jordan and Saudi Arabia helped to shoot down some of those Iranian drones. Now to your point, it is fair and true to say that 75 years ago or perhaps 50 years ago Israel had a lot more enemies in the region. But when you hear the line that today “Israel is surrounded by enemies”, that is something from decades ago that for some reason Israeli lobbyist are continuing to use and it’s inappropriate. Because a lot of other supporters of Israel are now acknowledging the facts on the ground that they have Muslim allies. Even Saudi Arabia might become an ally with Israel. Now knowing this how does it sound when somebody starts to criticize or make fun of Islam?? That doesn’t make any sense. Considering that I’ve even seen Israeli Jews on this forum be happy about going to visit the gulf countries after the Abraham accords.

Well you are someone who is very informed. So words and definitions do matter. Anti-Semitism denotes negative attitudes towards Semitic people which includes Arabs of all backgrounds, Middle Eastern people inclusive of Jews, atheists, and Christians. And Muslims. People really should start using the term Anti Jewish. It’s more appropriate if they are talking about negative perception of Jews.. I completely understand that in the mass media discourse people use the term antisemitism and they are technically wrong. I know what they are talking about, I understand it’s a matter of sementics, but I’m simply pointing out facts.


By the way as for ww2 the Jewish faith all over the world is eternally thankful to the heroes from the Soviet Union, from England and from America, who in the European theater liberated the concentration camps and ended the holocaust. They played a direct role in defeating the German army and their allies. I am a Catholic and an American patriot and I am forever thankful to the allies of World War II including the 500,000 Jews, who fought for the Soviet union and the many Jews who fought for England and America.

As For Islam. Well it is a religion of honor and integrity of my opinion. I see the same thing about Christianity and Judaism. Remember that thousands of years ago, Judaism was a similar religion to Islam and Christianity in terms of using a military to take over land. Actually, Judaism is far more close to Islam and Christianity is to Islam. It cannot be denied. Both Jews and Muslims do not consume pork for religious reasons. David had multiple wives just as Muhammad did. Muslims did spread Islam by the so-called sword. So did Christians. I mean, after all Christianity is found all over the world sometimes it were spread by the sword, but sometimes in a peaceful matter, same with Islam.

People in the USA who to claim to support conservative values and yet criticize Islam have no leg to stand on. Especially with all of the degenerate filth we have in America. Men playing on women’s sports teams, men going into women’s bathrooms. It is filth. None of that exists in the Muslim world by large.

I don’t understand what it’s like to hold a hatred of a religion. It doesn’t make any logical sense nor is it healthy. Again I do not hold Judaism in a negative light so I can’t be accused of that. But for people who hold Islam in a negative light, they are in fact hypocrites if they want to play some anti-Semitic card or complain about how they perceived Jews to being treated if they are themselves treating Muslims negatively by for example, claiming Islam as a violent religion. That’s not fair. It’s not appropriate behavior.

I know of authors who wrote about the middle ages such as the French historian Renee Grousett … who spoke about how the Catholic Crusaders set up the Catholic kingdom of Jerusalem over 1000 years ago. It was a state where Jews Muslims and Christians were treated with respect contrary to what even some Christians claim today about how the “Crusaders were violent.” I can back up what I’m saying with historical facts.

I support the legacy of the Christian states of the Middle East. Of the Crusader states. Their honor and integrity that’s how I feel as a Catholic. Interestingly enough, I have seen modern day supporters of Israel and Palestine, insults or criticized our Christian ancestors who created the crusader states sing that they were bloodthirsty or anti-Semitic. That’s not true and history supports my views all you have to do is look at the links in my signature.

I understand it’s a different time we are living in …it’s not the Middle Ages and I have already said I support Israel’s right to exist. And I support Palestine right to exist. Actually, I support a one state solution. It’s the best way forward. Anything else is going to simply continue the status quo. But also the USA should not be involved in the war. It has no effect on the regular lives of American people. The USA should be neutral like we were in the Spanish Civil War. We can maintain alliances with multiple Middle Eastern countries like Israel, Saudi Arabia that’s fine.

As for the conflict in Gaza. It might be the case that Palestinians have access to rockets. Those are low quality rockets that are intercepted by Israel’s iron dome. If Palestinians had access to weapons, strong enough to penetrate the iron dome, it will be a different discussion, but they don’t. And this is not a one-way conflict. There is a reason why some number of Palestinians want to launch military strikes against Israel it’s because some number of Palestinians have been killed by Israelis and vice versa. Pro Israel people attempt to paint this as a one-way conflict that is entirely absurd. This goes back to 1948. Just there have been conflicts all throughout the world between different types of people when there is a conflict people fight each other. It is undeniable that there are good and bad people on both sides when it comes to Israel Palestine, I am not a hypocrite. I am common sense. I can recognize humanity and I can recognize the facts without playing some ridiculous one-sided game. Especially as an American I’m not Jewish, I’m not Muslim. I’m not Israeli. I’m not Palestinian. so all of us is Americans a should look at the conflict in the Middle East as neutral as possible.

The undeniable bottom line is there is no comparing the so-called military of hamas to the military of Israel. And for all of the talk that countries like turkey and Iran do they’ve done nothing against Israel. The drone attacks don’t really count to my view because everybody knew it was coming. They did no damage. Now it would be different if Iran or Turkey launched an airstrike against Tel Aviv or sent in 100,000 troops to march into Israel of course they haven’t done it. All they do is talk a big game but do nothing. Israel does whatever it Wants in Gaza with no repercussion. That is Israel’s choice, but they come off as hypocrites and crybabies when they complain about how the world is treating them nobody’s doing anything to them. Doesn’t matter that people on college campuses are protesting against Israel, they are powerless to do anything.

I mean it’s been what seven or eight months since October 7. It doesn’t really matter so much that Iran has a military. Certainly it is no longer a talking point the military of Jordan or Egypt might attack Israel . They are not going to attack Israel. For crying out loud Jordan intercepted Iranian drones intended for Israel. It’s absurd to suggest Israel is surrounded by enemies so I’m not saying you are. I’m talking to the propagandists who claim “Israel is surrounded by enemies” when they are not. Especially in light of the Abraham accords and the tremendous level of diplomacy between Israel and Muslim majority countries under Donald Trump.


As for the issue of anti-Jewish behavior in the USA, which the media and many organizations erroneously referred to as antisemitism. No, it is simply not going to cut it. Just because some pot smoking hippies on college campuses are complaining about Israel. It does not constitute antisemitism. You might even find a few people with swastikas there. Who knows who they are are they undercover agents even if they are not it doesn’t matter they’re powerless to do anything. The fact is that a country is big as America with their ongoing drug and mental health issues we have had a level of racism against numerous groups and discrimination against the religious groups, all throughout our history. But the great great majority of American people are good people. They are not bigoted. They’re not going to attack people based on how they look or their religion. Such anti-religious or racism is a worldwide issue. And it’s a much bigger issue around the world compared to in America.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

I'll probably have to show these on another thread or two, but I mentioned them here first, so ...

This shows the early decades/centuries of Islam's spread from being just a local religion for the tribes of the Arabian desert into an expansionist, conquest movement. Note that most of the Western world has forgotten, and/or didn't know much about, the spread of Christianity Eastward into Asia. Unfortunately most of these early church communities were either destroyed or "converted" in Islamic conquest to the East into Asia a few centuries later.

The Islamic Conquests to 750 – Mapping Globalization

https://commons.princeton.edu/mg/wp...MG-Expansion_of_the_Islamic_World_to_1500.jpg
Expansion up to c.1500

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/ugcvudq3mp811.png
With slight adjustment at present, the extent of the Dar al-Islam.

Most importantly perhaps this discussion for any conservative who supports Israel…. they cannot live a lie because in the west, we have such degeneracy ie men going into women’s bathrooms, men playing on women’s sports teams, all sorts of radical left-wing propaganda in our country today that insults Christianity. Abortion all over the country….Such things do not exist in most of the Muslim world. So there you go. It’s all the more reason for neo conservatives to admire Islam because of how clean and beautiful countries like Saudi Arabia are. Again many of these Muslim countries are allied with Israel. The message to the neocons is stop living in the 1950s in the sense There’s not any more Arab Israeli wars going on it doesn’t exist anymore. The conflict in the Middle East is confined to Gaza.

American Christian patriots who criticize Islam have no leg to stand on. Not in our country today not with all the left-wing propaganda we have. Look at what America has become today with BLM, with trans people showing off their breasts at the White House. This is the definition of filth. And I believe in freedom of expression I am simply pointing out how in 2024 a number of Muslim majority countries are more civilized than America is today. Don’t get me wrong brother It wasn’t like this in the USA in our great and glorious American past when we had a better country for everybody a better class. For the pro Israel people in this thread a part of you really has to say hey he has a point here.


Well, we are all entitled to our views my friend. First and foremost, I hold Judaism in a positive light. So that puts me on an entirely different level compared to pro Israel people who hold Islam or even Christianity in a negative light. I cannot be called a bigot, but somebody who criticizes Jews, Muslims and Christians they are bigots. Right wing Critics of Islam sound a lot like modern day left wingers. It’s very interesting phenomenon.



Simply put it is a fact that numerous religions of the world spread throughout the entire globe. Sometimes they did so with armies sometimes people joined their religion peacefully. That is certainly the case, with two of the major religions of the world, Islam and Judaism. And it’s even the case with religions like Hinduism or Buddhism which number over 1 billion followers.

For Christianity to go from a very small religion that started by Jesus in the Middle East to what it is today a religion of over 2.5 billion people… is an extraordinary accomplishment. Enter the problem is not you, but it is these propagandists in the media attempting to criticize Islam for expanding. They really appear to be frothing at the mouth idiots or just some of the most destructive people in the world. Especially if they don’t criticize Christian empires are doing the same thing. I think the better and more healthier approach is to have a level of respect for religions like Islam, Christianity and Hinduism, which did expand their domain throughout the world in history.

It is true that there have been tolerant and intolerant groups from practically all religions. Whatever criticism somebody wants to throw at this or that Muslim group from history, they can say the same thing about a Jewish, a Hindu or a Christian group in history. And they also have to apply praise to numerous religious groups of history for contributing to math, science and humanitarian developments.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

I understand that there’s a lot of good people who support Israel. But there are different types of supporters of Israel. And on the US message board, we see some of the Neo conservative or right wing elements of support of Israel. And those types of supporters of Israel would actually be criticized by a lot of people in Israel, who disagree with that type of approach.

There’s a lot of nuance to this discussion and the far left in the far right are wrong in their approaches. I’ll get criticized by both the left and right for my position on Israel and Palestine. Most Israelis , and Palestinians have similar goals and similar habits. But it is the bigots of the world who attempt to group entire people as being negative just like Hitler did with Jews.

When somebody makes a broad sweeping claim that all Muslims seek to dominate non-Muslims or all Jews seek to dominate non-Jews they shouldn’t have a place at the discussion table. They should have their free speech, but nobody is going to take them seriously. Unfortunately such ideologies are sometimes a part of these discussions online.

Common sense shows us that most israelis and most Palestinians are good people. The problem are the governments of both sides there. They’re not doing the right things.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Stryder50 is a very informed person. He spends a lot of time and effort into his detailed posts, and I give him credit for that.


I cannot be accused of anti-Jewish behavior. It’s impossible because I praised the religion of Judaism. I have also said Israel has a right to exist yet a few pro israel people on the US messageboard have had the audacity and disgraceful attitude to accuse me of “antisemitism” or what they believe is anti-Jewish behavior.

some of the same pro Israel people have openly denigrated Islam. And it those types of people who denigrate Islam while claiming that “the Jews” are under siege are among the greatest hypocrites in the world for how they talk …and for how their ideology is formed

The other Problematic group are the types of people or who are so lazy that they criticize somebody as being anti-Jewish for criticizing the Israeli government. They spend no time making their posts they make a one line post in response to somebody writing multiple paragraphs criticizing the Israeli government. Obviously these types of supporters of Israel are very low information people. And they permeate western society in different parts of our world. It’s very unfortunate. They are no different from somebody on a college campus holding up a pro Palestinian poster, but who knows nothing about the conflict in the Middle East or why they are even holding up their pro Palestinian poster