CDZ What exactly is "Equity" and how does it compare to "Equality"?

[Captain Caveman]

The graphic example is fallacious. The people who are LEGALLY in the ball park by virtue of purchasing a ticket have paid for the quality of seat that they chose. They were all given the same opportunity to purchase base line seats or nose bleed seats. The example that you provide seems to suggest that the lower priced tickets should get the higher priced positions. The fallacy in the graphic is that none of the three took the opportunity that was available and instead chose to steal the value. They did not avail themselves to the opportunity to purchase a seat.

The picture is not about ball park tickets. The equality in the example is that all can attend if they wish, everyone is equal and can go. The fairness is provided by the park, they know that everyone is not equal and have different circumstances. So it provides adequate parking and access for both abled and disabled people, different seating arrangements, and is shown in the picture by providing adequate boxes for different height people to view the game.

The third part about reality, to me, the push has gone beyond fairness and the reality is, I see abled bodied people discriminated against to the point, it's the guy stood in the hole unable to watch the game.

 

[Concerned American]

I commended you and then I connected that to skin colour and IQ. If it's an inconvenient truth for you then you're entitled to your opinion. That doesn't make it any less true.

In fact it's directly to the point on opportunity relating to skin colour and thus relating to IQ's of those with less opportunities. African bushmen don't score highly on IQ tests designed for modern countries.
Then of course it relates to 'outcomes' too.

So what you are saying is that my six-year old wants to be a fireman and your contention is that she should be given the opportunity to be a fireman but even though she has neither the mental or physical capacity to perform the job (through no fault of her own) she should be given the job even though loss of lives and property would be the inevitable result. That argument is absurd. It also has NOTHING to do with lack of IQ or skin color. The fact that you continually try to paint every picture with a racist brush speaks volumes.

 

[Concerned American]

The picture is not about ball park tickets. The equality in the example is that all can attend if they wish, everyone is equal and can go.

The opportunity to see the game requires the purchase of a ticket. Your example is absurd. Turn it around to the people who paid for that opportunity. The equity came as a result of how much they paid. The stands are designed to provide that equity. In your example, none of the thieves availed themselves to the equal opportunity choosing instead to steal it (their opportunity is also equal--they will get the same size jail cell, therefore the equity of outcome is the same.) LOL, the little guy may not get that equity as he didn't steal anything.

 

[Donald H]

So what you are saying is that my six-year old wants to be a fireman and your contention is that she should be given the opportunity to be a fireman

Yes, or a firewoman or fire person.

 

[Concerned American]

I see abled bodied people discriminated against to the point, it's the guy stood in the hole unable to watch the game.

I kind of see your point but still disagree with the graphic. In your example ^^^, the little guy (non able bodied) is in the hole. The reality of the equitable angle puts the little guy on the stack and the tall guy in a hole so that he can experience the lesser quality of life that the little guy lives. However the graphic is still a poor example.

 

[Concerned American]

Yes, or a firewoman or fire person.

I attempted to carry on a fair debate with you duck and you have shown you don't have the IQ for it. So run along and troll someone else. You are truly a moron.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I kind of see your point but still disagree with the graphic. In your example ^^^, the little guy (non able bodied) is in the hole. The reality of the equitable angle puts the little guy on the stack and the tall guy in a hole so that he can experience the lesser quality of life that the little guy lives. However the graphic is still a poor example.

It's like my local Asda store. All can go by car or bus, we all have equality to go (apart from prisoners in jail). So the fairness there is, shopping trolley types for all, disabled parking, parent and child parking, abled bodied parking, toilet types for all, wide aisles etc.. everything seems fair?

But the reality is, for some reason, all disabled and parent with child parking spaces are outside the front doors. So as abled bodied, I have to park over 100 yards away. Well, what's the problem? I'm not disabled, I don't have a blue badge, but I need a knee operation. Sometimes my back plays up. Sometimes it's very painful just get to the trolleys to lean on at the front doors.

The fairness being, why not dot disabled parking and parent with child parking around the car park? Why not make it fair? These places only need wider bays to open doors, the energy from kids and motorised wheelchairs doesn't warrant all their parking to be on the stores doorstep.

May seem trivial, but it's an example where the fairness goes too far that another group ends up discriminated against.

 

[monkrules]

The covert poster, quite a spineless trait.

Nah, you just have a butchered version of the English language, pip-squeak.

Butchered is probably a bit harsh, so I will say "lazy"

There was nothing wrong with my use of the English language (in #133). The post described you perfectly.

 

[francoHFW]

Obviously? I have never seen anything out of you that says this is true.

Affirmative action is an example that illustrates the difference between equality and equity. What is your position on affirmative action?

It It helps minorities who are discriminated against otherwise. But we need to tax the rich so we have great schools everywhere and cheap college and training for the good jobs we should be getting like every other modern country....

 

[M14 Shooter]

I have to be honest, and say I don't really recall the term "Equity" being used the way it has before about 2-3 years ago. Back then the calls were for "Equality" a term far more easy to understand, and define.

 

[Captain Caveman]

It It helps minorities who are discriminated against otherwise. But we need to tax the rich so we have great schools everywhere and cheap college and training for the good jobs we should be getting like every other modern country....

The funny thing is, the bizarre world we live in, there's this made hysteria to promote discriminated and disadvantaged groups, that the majority are now the minority. So rather than jumping to fairness for all, the majority can often be discriminated against.

For example, take blacks, whites, gingers, disabled, straight, gay etc.. people in the UK. The vast majority of adverts on TV were white straight models. So let's bring fairness into commercials. So rather than balancing the actors to the different group percentages in the UK, we have a new game; spot the str8 white person in adverts.

Is there Equity in UK TV adverts? Still no, from one extreme to the other.

 

[Concerned American]

U

It's like my local Asda store. All can go by car or bus, we all have equality to go (apart from prisoners in jail). So the fairness there is, shopping trolley types for all, disabled parking, parent and child parking, abled bodied parking, toilet types for all, wide aisles etc.. everything seems fair?

But the reality is, for some reason, all disabled and parent with child parking spaces are outside the front doors. So as abled bodied, I have to park over 100 yards away. Well, what's the problem? I'm not disabled, I don't have a blue badge, but I need a knee operation. Sometimes my back plays up. Sometimes it's very painful just get to the trolleys to lean on at the front doors.

The fairness being, why not dot disabled parking and parent with child parking around the car park? Why not make it fair? These places only need wider bays to open doors, the energy from kids and motorised wheelchairs doesn't warrant all their parking to be on the stores doorstep.

May seem trivial, but it's an example where the fairness goes too far that another group ends up discriminated against.

Understood, that was the point I was trying to convey in my last post to you. You are the tall guy in the hole and I agree with your point.

 

[Meathead]

I have to be honest, and say I don't really recall the term "Equity" being used the way it has before about 2-3 years ago. Back then the calls were for "Equality" a term far more easy to understand, and define.

My question is why the change? When did Equality become not good enough?

My answer, to start things off, is using Equity allows you to seem like supporting equality, but allows you to add a fudge factor to favor one side/person/thing over another. It's basically giving one side the advantage due to "XYZ" but still claim because of the other sides previous advantages, things are now truly equal.

It's a way to put your finger on the scale and tip the situation in your favor, or in the favor of the side you approve of.

Nature recognizes equilibrium. It is why things orbit each other. Equality is a human construct,

 

[Concerned American]

The funny thing is, the bizarre world we live in, there's this made hysteria to promote discriminated and disadvantaged groups, that the majority are now the minority. So rather than jumping to fairness for all, the majority can often be discriminated against.

For example, take blacks, whites, gingers, disabled, straight, gay etc.. people in the UK. The vast majority of adverts on TV were white straight models. So let's bring fairness into commercials. So rather than balancing the actors to the different group percentages in the UK, we have a new game; spot the str8 white person in adverts.

Is there Equity in UK TV adverts? Still no, from one extreme to the other.

We are experiencing the extreme shift in the US as well.

 

[Concerned American]

View attachment 586245

If you showed a cop running off the thieves, that would be captalism, equality and equity. When the only people enjoying the game are the paying customers (capitalism) who are getting equal value for the money they paid (equity) and they all had the same opportunity to purchase any level of ticket (equality).

 

[Cecilie1200]

I like this one..but the baseball game one was excellent too.

View attachment 586205

More unrelated, generic analogies to convince yourself that what you want isn't the garbage you know it is.

I'll say it again: if your agenda had any moral value, you'd be arguing based on it, rather than on cartoons about picking apples.

Equality continues to be, "I am just as valuable as a human as you are, and should be seen as such by the system." Equity continues to be, "The system should favor people leftists like over people leftists don't like". And no number of cartoons will change that, or make it anything but evil you should feel bad about supporting. They just prove that you know it, too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The picture is not about ball park tickets. The equality in the example is that all can attend if they wish, everyone is equal and can go. The fairness is provided by the park, they know that everyone is not equal and have different circumstances. So it provides adequate parking and access for both abled and disabled people, different seating arrangements, and is shown in the picture by providing adequate boxes for different height people to view the game.

The third part about reality, to me, the push has gone beyond fairness and the reality is, I see abled bodied people discriminated against to the point, it's the guy stood in the hole unable to watch the game.

The picture isn't about anything except your inability to make a substantive argument based on real issues.

 

[francoHFW]

The funny thing is, the bizarre world we live in, there's this made hysteria to promote discriminated and disadvantaged groups, that the majority are now the minority. So rather than jumping to fairness for all, the majority can often be discriminated against.

For example, take blacks, whites, gingers, disabled, straight, gay etc.. people in the UK. The vast majority of adverts on TV were white straight models. So let's bring fairness into commercials. So rather than balancing the actors to the different group percentages in the UK, we have a new game; spot the str8 white person in adverts.

Is there Equity in UK TV adverts? Still no, from one extreme to the other.

I never here Democrats talking about equity, I think it is a conservative buzzword talking point about God knows what. I don't mind minorities getting work acting or whatever. Lol

 

[citygator]

More unrelated, generic analogies to convince yourself that what you want isn't the garbage you know it is.

I'll say it again: if your agenda had any moral value, you'd be arguing based on it, rather than on cartoons about picking apples.

Equality continues to be, "I am just as valuable as a human as you are, and should be seen as such by the system." Equity continues to be, "The system should favor people leftists like over people leftists don't like". And no number of cartoons will change that, or make it anything but evil you should feel bad about supporting. They just prove that you know it, too.

A lot of words that say nothing.

 

[Concerned American]

I never here Democrats talking about equity

What college did you say hired you to teach? ^^^^