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CDZ What do the "Warmers" really want?

oldsoul

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It's right there for you. What, specifically, do the "Warmers" want? In a previous thread, I asked a similar question, and got the response (in part) 200PPM of CO2 in the atmosphere. (I may be slightly incorrect on the number)

So, lets look at that. When was the last time we had ~200-300 PPM of CO2?
24_co2-graph-021116-768px.jpg

Climate Change: Climate Resource Center - Graphic: The relentless rise of carbon dioxide

From the article, "During ice ages, CO2 levels were around 200 parts per million (ppm), and during the warmer interglacial periods, they hovered around 280 ppm (see fluctuations in the graph)."

Ok, so we are basically talking about going back to pre-industrial levels right?

What will that take? What would our world look like?
 

2aguy

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It's right there for you. What, specifically, do the "Warmers" want? In a previous thread, I asked a similar question, and got the response (in part) 200PPM of CO2 in the atmosphere. (I may be slightly incorrect on the number)

So, lets look at that. When was the last time we had ~200-300 PPM of CO2?
24_co2-graph-021116-768px.jpg

Climate Change: Climate Resource Center - Graphic: The relentless rise of carbon dioxide

From the article, "During ice ages, CO2 levels were around 200 parts per million (ppm), and during the warmer interglacial periods, they hovered around 280 ppm (see fluctuations in the graph)."

Ok, so we are basically talking about going back to pre-industrial levels right?

What will that take? What would our world look like?


It would look like pre industrial society....for everyone but the politically powerful.....
 

bear513

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You have a few camps on this: you have Naomi Klien

"Meeting science-based [carbon] targets will mean forcing some of the most profitable companies on the planet to forfeit trillions of dollars of future earnings by leaving the vast majority of fossil fuel reserves in the ground. It will also require coming up with trillions more to pay for zero-carbon, disaster-ready societal transformations... if climate justice carries the day, the economic costs to our elites will be real." ~ Naomi Klien

You have the UN officials saying the same thing


the words of former United Nations climate official Ottmar Edenhofer:


“One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole,” said Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015.

You have the zealots like Micheal Mann, Al Gore and cook trying to cash in on fame and fortune.

You have people who study worms, the trout fishermen of America and other leading scientist in no field of studying climate change signing off of NOAA reports just for grant money

Society of Nematologists Says man made climate change is realreal

Then you have average American AGW cult members who think a thermometer (which they used in the early 1900 century is as accurate as a digital one and buy into the hype

A poll what does this thermometer read?

So many different angles from so many people that want to believe they are special and witnessing a grand event in their life times.
 

320 Years of History

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When was the last time we had ~200-300 PPM of CO2? .... Ok, so we are basically talking about going back to pre-industrial levels right?

Dear God! Can you understand the temporal quality and extent of the matter just a tiny bit more? LOL Pre-industrial? What the chart you provided shows is that current CO2 volumes are just shy of double their height since hundreds of thousands of years before the dawn of modern human existence, well before recorded history began, and aeonically before the industrial age!
 
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oldsoul

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When was the last time we had ~200-300 PPM of CO2? .... Ok, so we are basically talking about going back to pre-industrial levels right?

Dear God! Can you understand the temporal quality and extent of the matter just a tiny bit more? LOL Pre-industrial? What the chart you provided shows is that current CO2 volumes are just shy of double their height since hundreds of thousands of years before the dawn of modern human existence, well before recorded history began, and aeonically before the industrial age!
So, your saying we need to go back further? Or are you questioning the premise of the post? I have come to expect much more clear, and developed responses from you.
 
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oldsoul

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Toronado3800

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
 
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oldsoul

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Could you elaborate more?
 

Toronado3800

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Could you elaborate more?

Auto manufacturers would have to meet economy standards which would probably limit your auto to "Just" 250 Horsepower" if I were given my way.

Nothing crazy. Just regulations like that are what I'd go for right off the bat.

The difficult part would be encouraging the rest of the industrialized world to partake in any regulations, but we may as well try ourselves.
 
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oldsoul

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Could you elaborate more?

Auto manufacturers would have to meet economy standards which would probably limit your auto to "Just" 250 Horsepower" if I were given my way.

Nothing crazy. Just regulations like that are what I'd go for right off the bat.

The difficult part would be encouraging the rest of the industrialized world to partake in any regulations, but we may as well try ourselves.
Ok, that's a start. What I am trying to get at here, and was not very effective at stating, is: what is the "end game"? In other words, if given free rein to institute ANY and ALL restrictions on global warming activities, what would be the restrictions? Further, what would that do to modern life as we know it? How would it impact the way we go about our day to day existence?
 

AnCap'n_Murica

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You're going to have to be more clear, and come full circle if you wish for me to believe you are, indeed, on topic. What, exactly are you trying to say?
Wow, it has to be spelled out for you?

The warmers want on a global basis what the Soviet commies could not achieve on a continental basis. Including, but not limited to: control of the means of production through energy use dictates, control over what cars may or may not be driven and where, control of what kind of home you may or may not live in, how you may or may not heat and cool those homes, populations concentrated in urban areas, virtually everyone (except for themselves of course) forced into using mass transit in those cities, etc., etc., etc.
 

AnCap'n_Murica

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
EvilNO.jpg
 

Toronado3800

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
View attachment 84372

I take it you are against my idea of TRYING to hold 1950's levels by using such draconian restrictions that KIA can ONLY get 250 HP out of your new automobile?

Or is the picture being sarcastic?
 

bear513

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Could you elaborate more?

Auto manufacturers would have to meet economy standards which would probably limit your auto to "Just" 250 Horsepower" if I were given my way.

Nothing crazy. Just regulations like that are what I'd go for right off the bat.

The difficult part would be encouraging the rest of the industrialized world to partake in any regulations, but we may as well try ourselves.


I forgot to mention other ulterior motives camp like this poster.

They will use climate change, to get rid of something they don't like in this case pick up trucks and SUVs
 

Toronado3800

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Let's pretend we're trying to hold the 1950 level and we'll deal with that.

Not talking power plants or anything. They'd get similar regulations but:

I'm not saying do it tomorrow or I take your car. I'm saying your car is going to meet emissions standards which probably hold it to a measly 250hp.

Let's just try, I am conservative with this environment for my kids thing.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Could you elaborate more?

Auto manufacturers would have to meet economy standards which would probably limit your auto to "Just" 250 Horsepower" if I were given my way.

Nothing crazy. Just regulations like that are what I'd go for right off the bat.

The difficult part would be encouraging the rest of the industrialized world to partake in any regulations, but we may as well try ourselves.
Ok, that's a start. What I am trying to get at here, and was not very effective at stating, is: what is the "end game"? In other words, if given free rein to institute ANY and ALL restrictions on global warming activities, what would be the restrictions? Further, what would that do to modern life as we know it? How would it impact the way we go about our day to day existence?

End game? I am not sure I have one. I don't want to de-industrialize America or start wars over environmental regs.

I suppose if Mexico ever dumps nuclear waste into the Rio Grande we might have to, but I don't want to.
 

AnCap'n_Murica

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I take it you are against my idea of TRYING to hold 1950's levels by using such draconian restrictions that KIA can ONLY get 250 HP out of your new automobile?

Or is the picture being sarcastic?
I'm against central planning of any kind. That power always -yes ALWAYS- gets abused.
 
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oldsoul

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You're going to have to be more clear, and come full circle if you wish for me to believe you are, indeed, on topic. What, exactly are you trying to say?
Wow, it has to be spelled out for you?

The warmers want on a global basis what the Soviet commies could not achieve on a continental basis. Including, but not limited to: control of the means of production through energy use dictates, control over what cars may or may not be driven and where, control of what kind of home you may or may not live in, how you may or may not heat and cool those homes, populations concentrated in urban areas, virtually everyone (except for themselves of course) forced into using mass transit in those cities, etc., etc., etc.
That's what I thought you where referring to. I just wanted to be sure. Thanks for clearing it up.
 

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