Were the Confederates traitors

[Zincwarrior]

Would the confederates have been traitors if they had won the Civil War?


It's all perspective.

Exactly. You are a traitor right up until the time you win. But you have to win first.

 

[Unkotare]

No, I'm not proud of the way the Norhtern States 'kept' the Union together. As I said, it is no longer together. The Union in 1865 was/is not the Union of 1861. Why should I be proud of the way the North freed the slaves. By destroying the South? By placing us under a terrible reconstruction for 12 years. And having no plan for the emancipation of the slaves other than try to use them against the Southern white people, and as a Republican voting block in the South. And then once the South ran the North home they left the slaves at the mercy of the South after they used them against the Southern white people.

And now that glorious North, working close with the NAACP of course, continues and tears down our flags and monuments. Yet puts up MLK statues everywhere and changes street signs to MLK everywhere. And changes names of schools and military installations etc. etc. So, again, no. I'm not proud for the U.S. freeing slaves.

'If I believe'? Do you deny that the Union you speak of was kept together by the bayonet? By force. By War.

Oh yes it can. When a State secedes all oaths to that Union are null and void. The State is no longer in the Union. The State is no longer under the Constitution of that Union.

No, when the State secedes, any in the U.S. military from that seceding State is no longer under the oaths they took to the U.S. if they don't want to be loyal to their State then they can leave with the U.S. miliatry and be a traitor to their State and Confederacy when that State joins the Confederacy.

Quantrill

 

[Zincwarrior]

One thing of note, once the southerners fired on Fort Sumter, all bets were off. Traitor or foreign power, in 1861 that meant your ass. Ask Mexico or Imperial Japan.

 

[longly]

How could you label the subject 'Were the Confederates Traitors' and not expect a discussion on the War Between The States and slavery?

As far as America being 'stolen land', that is incorrect. It was not stolen, it was conquered.

Just like those early Europeans who came to this country are often called immigrants. But they were not immigrants, they were pioneers. They didn't come over under any immigration policy by the Indians. They simply came over to find a new place to live and had to defeat the Indians to do so.

Quantrill

You're right—I should have known better. Any mention of the Confederates, states' rights, federalism, or the South—any of those things—would have brought up slavery, which I still don’t fully understand. I hope you understand that they use it as a club to try to humiliate and manipulate us.

You don’t have to let yourself be manipulated. I let no one manipulate me. I'm proud of my ancestors. They were different people who lived in a different time and thought differently. But for the most part, they were not evil. They just saw the world differently.

And by the way, I have no respect for people who allow themselves to be manipulated. I try hard, but I’m finding it difficult to respect the left. They let themselves be manipulated by Trump all the time—he plays them like a musical instrument. He even got the liberal news media to finance his first campaign. Who’s ever heard of that before?

 

[Unkotare]

You're right—I should have known better. Any mention of the Confederates, states' rights, federalism, or the South—any of those things—would have brought up slavery, which I still don’t fully understand. I hope you understand that they use it as a club to try to humiliate and manipulate us.

You don’t have to let yourself be manipulated. I let no one manipulate me. I'm proud of my ancestors. They were different people who lived in a different time and thought differently. But for the most part, they were not evil. They just saw the world differently.

And by the way, I have no respect for people who allow themselves to be manipulated. I try hard, but I’m finding it difficult to respect the left. They let themselves be manipulated by Trump all the time—he plays them like a musical instrument. He even got the liberal news media to finance his first campaign. Who’s ever heard of that before?

You don’t respect the left, but you side with the democrats?

 

[Mushroom]

You have to be kidding.

No response about Lincoln?

No sympathy for the black performers invited to appear at the Lincoln

Where in the hell did I say anything about President Lincoln?

Are you unable to follow anything, and just randomly pop up with something else and demand that others respond to your nonsense?

 

[Mushroom]

I just did. In Philiadelphia in 1787. They did away with the Articles of Confederation, our first Constitution. Which was declared perpetual. Our Union is based upon the Constitution. Once that Constitution is done away, that Union is done away.

No, it was not. It was replaced, but never cancelled, withdrawn, or anything else of the like.

Out government is based on the Constitution, the Articles of Confederation. Which is recognized as the first Constitution of the United States. That is why the creation of our Government dates back to either 1776 or 1777. But notice, the date of the creation of our government does not go back to only 1789 when the Constitution went into effect.

The Constitution superseded the Articles. The Articles were not cancelled in any way.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Where in the hell did I say anything about President Lincoln?

I asked about Slavemaster in Chief Lincoln.

If the war was about dlavery, why did Lincoln not free the ones in the loyalist states and advocate for repeak of the fugitive slave laws.

Are you unable to follow anything, and just randomly pop up with something else and demand that others respond to your nonsense?

Are you unable to engage in debate? What without attempting to control what can and cannot be said by your opponent in that debate?

 

[Quantrill]

One wonders how many of those now arguing that the Confederates were traitors to the US would also argue that Ukrainians are traitors to Russia.

It's amazing to me that the U.S. today always supports other countries separating from their larger dominating central authority. But don't dare try to separate from 'America'. Oh no...that is treason.

Quantrill

 

[Zincwarrior]

It's amazing to me that the U.S. today always supports other countries separating from their larger dominating central authority. But don't dare try to separate from 'America'. Oh no...that is treason.

Quantrill

Yes, it is.

 

[longly]

You don’t respect the left, but you side with the democrats?

That is true—but only when they’re right. No one has a monopoly on the truth. Since I’m a Democrat—or at least still a member of the Democratic Party—some people expect me to agree with Democrats all the time. But I don’t do that, because it seems to me that much of the time, they’re wrong. Unfortunately, when it comes to the basic stuff—where it really matters—I find myself forced to travel on the same train as the Republicans and conservatives. I wish the Democrats would use more common sense. But I’ve been wishing that for almost half a century.

 

[Quantrill]

You're not a real re-enactor unless you wear period accurate underwear...

I didn't know Northerners could vote in another state.

If a state leaves its not treason, but if you are a US soldier born in one of those states, THEY are the traitor? Oh man thats rich.


I don't feel destroyed. Texas has 30mm people in it. It has the second highest GDP behind Cali. Florida is #4. Georgia is #8.


The PERSON made the oath. Thats why Lee resigned his commission. Thomas did not, and commenced to kick ass and take names.

Yep. Just like it was freed from the British and half the population who wanted to remain British were now no longer British.

Did I say anything about Northernors voting in another state?

If a State leaves, the citizens of that State leave. If that citizen is a soldier and wants to remain with the U.S. he is free to do so. Yet he becomes a traitor to his State and the Confederacy. Yes, it is rich.

In 1865 you would have felt destroyed. The South was in good financial shape in 1861. So what? That didn't stop the North from making war on us. In fact that probably spurred it on.

The person made the oath while a member of the U.S. After secession, the State and it's citizens are no longer members of the U.S. The oaths are null and void.

Lee resigned his commission because he was no longer a member of the U.S. when Virgina seceded. He made it clear when offered to be in charge of the Union Army that he would go the way Virginia went. Virginia went Southern and so did Lee.

The colonies were not freed from the British as States. So again, do you deny that the Union you speak was not kept together by the bayonet?

Quantrill

 

[Zincwarrior]

If a State leaves, the citizens of that State leave. If that citizen is a soldier wants to remain with the U.S. he is free to do so. Yet he becomes a traitor to his State and the Confederacy. Yes, it is rich.

A state can't leave.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Repeating your lame arguments, which were proven false, doesn't make them so.

The only traitors in that War was the North. The only ones who went against the Constitution was the North. Prove to me the South went against the Constitution in 1861.

Quantrill

Wags Wearing Wigs

The Preamble guaranteed "a more perfect union." That was impossible from the very beginning. The political ignorance of those who wrote that elitist manifesto, the Constitution, was the ultimate cause of the inevitable secession.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The person made the oath while a member of the U.S. After secession, the State and it's citizens are no longer members of the U.S. The oaths are null and void.

Yes you said that. Wouldn't keep you from Fort Leavenworth.

You know who never brings this crap up? Everyone outside of a few crappy Southern states. Everyone else-Texas and Florida included-have moved the **** on.

 

[Quantrill]

You're right—I should have known better. Any mention of the Confederates, states' rights, federalism, or the South—any of those things—would have brought up slavery, which I still don’t fully understand. I hope you understand that they use it as a club to try to humiliate and manipulate us.

You don’t have to let yourself be manipulated. I let no one manipulate me. I'm proud of my ancestors. They were different people who lived in a different time and thought differently. But for the most part, they were not evil. They just saw the world differently.

And by the way, I have no respect for people who allow themselves to be manipulated. I try hard, but I’m finding it difficult to respect the left. They let themselves be manipulated by Trump all the time—he plays them like a musical instrument. He even got the liberal news media to finance his first campaign. Who’s ever heard of that before?

Learn history and not the propaganda and you won 't be disappointed. You will be hated, but you will be right.

Quantrill

 

[skews13]

My ancestors fought the Yankees because they invaded Virginia. All were Virginia Militia in the antebellum years so it was their duty to repel the invasion of Virginia.

Virginian militia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They all fought in the 33rd Virginia Infantry (part of the Stonewall Brigade).

33rd Virginia Infantry Regiment - Wikipedia

And they lost. Because they were weak losers. Who fought a weak losing cause.

Now where's the Epstein files?

 

[Unkotare]

...

If a State leaves, the citizens of that State leave. I...

No states really left.

 

[Quantrill]

No, it was not. It was replaced, but never cancelled, withdrawn, or anything else of the like.

Out government is based on the Constitution, the Articles of Confederation. Which is recognized as the first Constitution of the United States. That is why the creation of our Government dates back to either 1776 or 1777. But notice, the date of the creation of our government does not go back to only 1789 when the Constitution went into effect.

The Constitution superseded the Articles. The Articles were not cancelled in any way.

The Articles of Confederation were thrown out the window. Any change, any amendment to the Articles had to be by unanomous consent. And in Philedlphia in 1787 they couldn't get it. So they threw out the Ariticles and made a new Constitution.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Yes, it is.

It is not treason in America as America allows for secession. But America supports all other secession in other countries. Quite the hypocrite.

Quantrill