Were the Confederates traitors

[Zincwarrior]

Gee, why do you say 'we kept the country together'? Were you there? Oxymoronic statements you make.

Quantrill

We as in the United States. As an American citizen are you proud that the United States kept the Union together, and freed 4MM humans during and after?

Oh contrair...I am quite proud of my Souther heritiage.

Yes I am proud of my Texas heritage as well. Part of that is being proud that we have progressed - freed the slaves, enfranchised women, the later Civil Rights movement.

And in turn were traitors to their State and the Confederacy.

Quantrill

Their oath was to the United States. They made no oaths to the Confederacy. Your argument is...strange.

 

[hadit]

The Confederacy was a separate nation that declared war on the United States.

The same actions led to the establishment of the United States some 100 years before that.

 

[Unkotare]

And in turn were traitors to their State and the Confederacy.

Quantrill

You’re not an American.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The same actions led to the establishment of the United States some 100 years before that.

Yes, had they failed they were subject to being hanged, drawn, and quartered (yes in the at order), beheaded etc.

 

[hadit]

Of course they were traitors. By definition. They got what they had coming.

The Founding Fathers would have been hung for treason had they not won the war.

 

[Quantrill]

We as in the United States. As an American citizen are you proud that the United States kept the Union together, and freed 4MM humans during and after?

Yes I am proud of my Texas heritage as well. Part of that is being proud that we have progressed - freed the slaves, enfranchised women, the later Civil Rights movement.

Their oath was to the United States. They made no oaths to the Confederacy. Your argument is...strange.

The United States didn't keep the Union together. It divided the Union and made war on the South and attempted to destroy it. That Union no longer exists. We are now and forever united by the bayonet only. Freeing the slaves was a product of the War. But the North made war to force the South back into the Union.

Good for you.

That oath was null and void once the Southern State seceded. As a citizen of that State you naturally have an obligation to that State. If a citizen of the U.S., who never took any oath, today chose to fight for an enemy of the U.S. they would be a traitor to the U.S.

Quantrill

 

[Mr Natural]

Oh contrair...I am quite proud of my Souther heritiage.

Quantrill

Pride goeth before a fall.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Pride goeth before a fall.

Can I be proud of our cuisine?

The United States didn't keep the Union together. It divided the Union and made war on the South and attempted to destroy it. That Union no longer exists. We are now and forever united by the bayonet only. Freeing the slaves was a product of the War. But the North made war to force the South back into the Union.

So by that statement you are not proud?

That oath was null and void once the Southern State seceded. As a citizen of that State you naturally have an obligation to that State. If a citizen of the U.S., who never took any oath, today chose to fight for an enemy of the U.S. they would be a traitor to the U.S.

They were citizens of the US and had sworn oaths to the US.

 

[Quantrill]

So by that statement you are not proud?

They were citizens of the US and had sworn oaths to the US.

Not proud of what?

No, the State seceded and those oaths were null and void. They were no longer citizens of the U.S.

Quantrill

 

[Zincwarrior]

Not proud of what?

Not proud that the US freed the slaves and kept the Union together, even if by bayonet as you believe.

No, the State seceded and those oaths were null and void.

A state cannot make your oath to the US null and void.

They were no longer citizens of the U.S.

Quantrill

1. They disagreed.
2. Doesn't matter. They were already members of the US military.

 

[Unkotare]

Not proud of what?

No, the State seceded and those oaths were null and void. They were no longer citizens of the U.S.

Quantrill

Shut up boy. You were stupid, you lost and you’ll do as you’re told. You traitors got off too easy.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Shut up boy. You were stupid, you lost and you’ll do as you’re told. You traitors got off too easy.

I would submit "those traitors." Again, unless Quantrill is a vampire (which explains his dislike of Lincoln) he did not commit treason.

 

[Unkotare]

I would submit "those traitors." Again, unless Quantrill is a vampire (which explains his dislike of Lincoln) he did not commit treason.

View attachment 1157454

He seems to want to identify with them, so...

 

[Unkotare]

I would submit "those traitors." Again, unless Quantrill is a vampire (which explains his dislike of Lincoln) he did not commit treason.

View attachment 1157454

What do you want to bet he does confederate cosplay on the weekends?

 

[Quantrill]

Not proud that the US freed the slaves and kept the Union together, even if by bayonet as you believe.

A state cannot make your oath to the US null and void.


1. They disagreed.
2. Doesn't matter. They were already members of the US military.

No, I'm not proud of the way the Norhtern States 'kept' the Union together. As I said, it is no longer together. The Union in 1865 was/is not the Union of 1861. Why should I be proud of the way the North freed the slaves. By destroying the South? By placing us under a terrible reconstruction for 12 years. And having no plan for the emancipation of the slaves other than try to use them against the Southern white people, and as a Republican voting block in the South. And then once the South ran the North home they left the slaves at the mercy of the South after they used them against the Southern white people.

And now that glorious North, working close with the NAACP of course, continues and tears down our flags and monuments. Yet puts up MLK statues everywhere and changes street signs to MLK everywhere. And changes names of schools and military installations etc. etc. So, again, no. I'm not proud for the U.S. freeing slaves.

'If I believe'? Do you deny that the Union you speak of was kept together by the bayonet? By force. By War.

Oh yes it can. When a State secedes all oaths to that Union are null and void. The State is no longer in the Union. The State is no longer under the Constitution of that Union.

No, when the State secedes, any in the U.S. military from that seceding State is no longer under the oaths they took to the U.S. if they don't want to be loyal to their State then they can leave with the U.S. miliatry and be a traitor to their State and Confederacy when that State joins the Confederacy.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I would submit "those traitors." Again, unless Quantrill is a vampire (which explains his dislike of Lincoln) he did not commit treason.

I would submit you are wrong in labeling the South as traitors. It was the North who were traitor to the Constitution, not the South.

Quantrill

 

[hadit]

Not proud of what?

No, the State seceded and those oaths were null and void. They were no longer citizens of the U.S.

Quantrill

One wonders how many of those now arguing that the Confederates were traitors to the US would also argue that Ukrainians are traitors to Russia.

 

[Zincwarrior]

What do you want to bet he does confederate cosplay on the weekends?

You're not a real re-enactor unless you wear period accurate underwear...

And now that glorious North, working close with the NAACP of course, continues and tears down our flags and monuments.

I didn't know Northerners could vote in another state.

if they don't want to be loyal to their State then they can leave with the U.S. miliatry and be a traitor to their State and Confederacy when that State joins the Confederacy.

If a state leaves its not treason, but if you are a US soldier born in one of those states, THEY are the traitor? Oh man thats rich.

By destroying the South?

I don't feel destroyed. Texas has 30mm people in it. It has the second highest GDP behind Cali. Florida is #4. Georgia is #8.

Oh yes it can. When a State secedes all oaths to that Union are null and void. The State is no longer in the Union. The State is no longer under the Constitution of that Union.

The PERSON made the oath. Thats why Lee resigned his commission. Thomas did not, and commenced to kick ass and take names.

'If I believe'? Do you deny that the Union you speak of was kept together by the bayonet? By force. By War.

Yep. Just like it was freed from the British and half the population who wanted to remain British were now no longer British.

 

[Zincwarrior]

One wonders how many of those now arguing that the Confederates were traitors to the US would also argue that Ukrainians are traitors to Russia.

A reminder, Ukraine was a separate nation before it was conquered by the Russians (Peter and Catherine the Great). After the USSR fell apart it was freed again.

 

[Meister]

Would the confederates have been traitors if they had won the Civil War?
Would that have made the north the traitors?

It's all perspective.