Was Winston Churchill a catastrophe?

[Thunderbird]

Though Winston Churchill has been piled with praise by the established order, I think Churchill was a catastrophe - a barbaric war-loving incompetent.

His "achievements":

• He helped push the UK into WW I. Without UK involvement the war would have ended quickly.
• He bears responsibility for the Gallipoli disaster.
• He instituted the hunger blockade of Germany which killed 100s of 1000s.
• He supported gas attacks on Iraqi civilians.
• His stupid decision to return the UK to the gold standard helped bring about the Great Depression.
• He supported the foolish war guarantee to Poland. Poland was not saved, only Stalin benefited.
• He is responsible for the debacle of the Norway invasion.
• His policy of terror bombing in WW II led to additional 100s of 1000s of deaths.
• Churchill's forced repatriation of refugees after WW II condemned millions to servitude and death.
• Churchill also deserves blame for the Bengal famine which killed 1-3 million.

Rethinking Churchill

Churchill Spurred the Decline of the West

 

[percysunshine]

The astonishing interactive map that show EVERY bomb dropped on London during the Blitz | Mail Online

 

[Staidhup]

Absolutely a stunning piece of crap. Nothing more than another revisionist extrapolating and professing without due consideration given to the facts and reality of the time period in which the events occurred. My hunch, correct me if I am wrong, is that you are of German descent.

 

[slackjawed]

Of this I am quite sure, that if we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find that we have lost the future.

Winston Churchill * Speech in the House of Commons, June 18, 1940

 

[Thunderbird]

quote: But the great war crime which will be forever linked to Churchill's name is the terror-bombing of the cities of Germany that in the end cost the lives of around 600,000 civilians and left some 800,000 seriously injured. (Compare this to the roughly 70,000 British lives lost to German air attacks. In fact, there were nearly as many Frenchmen killed by Allied air attacks as there were Englishmen killed by Germans.) The plan was conceived mainly by Churchill's friend and scientific advisor, Professor Lindemann, and carried out by the head of Bomber Command, Arthur Harris ("Bomber Harris"). Harris stated: "In Bomber Command we have always worked on the assumption that bombing anything in Germany is better than bombing nothing." Harris and other British airforce leaders boasted that Britain had been the pioneer in the massive use of strategic bombing. J.M. Spaight, former Principal Assistant Secretary of the Air Ministry, noted that while the Germans (and the French) looked on air power as largely an extension of artillery, a support to the armies in the field, the British understood its capacity to destroy the enemy's home-base. They built their bombers and established Bomber Command accordingly.

LINK

 

[Thunderbird]

Absolutely a stunning piece of crap. Nothing more than another revisionist extrapolating and professing without due consideration given to the facts and reality of the time period in which the events occurred.

Have you finished with your rant? Can you refute any statements I made? Please be specific.

 

[Sallow]

Churchill was the right man at the right time.

 

[percysunshine]

Absolutely a stunning piece of crap. Nothing more than another revisionist extrapolating and professing without due consideration given to the facts and reality of the time period in which the events occurred.

Have you finished with your rant? Can you refute any statements I made? Please be specific.

Can you support any statement you made. Please be specific.

 

[Thunderbird]

Can you support any statement you made. Please be specific.

I provided links.

What's the problem? Too much reading? Too many big words?

Which of my statements do you disagree with?

 

[Thunderbird]

Here's George Kennan: “the British guaranty to Poland [in 1939] was neither necessary nor wise,”

How can anyone disagree?

 

[gipper]

Though Winston Churchill has been piled with praise by the established order, I think Churchill was a catastrophe - a barbaric war-loving incompetent.

His "achievements":

• He helped push the UK into WW I. Without UK involvement the war would have ended quickly.
• He bears responsibility for the Gallipoli disaster.
• He instituted the hunger blockade of Germany which killed 100s of 1000s.
• He supported gas attacks on Iraqi civilians.
• His stupid decision to return the UK to the gold standard helped bring about the Great Depression.
• He supported the foolish war guarantee to Poland. Poland was not saved, only Stalin benefited.
• He is responsible for the debacle of the Norway invasion.
• His policy of terror bombing in WW II led to additional 100s of 1000s of deaths.
• Churchill's forced repatriation of refugees after WW II condemned millions to servitude and death.
• Churchill also deserves blame for the Bengal famine which killed 1-3 million.

Rethinking Churchill

Churchill Spurred the Decline of the West

Yes Olde Winston made amazingly catastrophic mistakes in WWII. But he was not alone. Most of the Brit and American elite desired to destroy Germany, while ignoring the commie threat, even aligning with the commies, thus allowing the most heinous ideology and horrific mass murderer, to become a superpower. Winston was instrumental in causing the Cold War and enslaving millions to tyrannical Soviet communism...just as FDR was.

To go to war over Poland, was completely idiotic. And then after the war, to allow the Commies to enslave Poland (and all of E. Europe), which they went to war to liberate, is even greater idiocy.

Yes the Nazis were equally bad, but I don't think aligning with either was the solution. The US and UK should have let the Nazis and Commies annihilate each other and saved the lives of young Americans and Brits.

 

[Bill Angel]

The US and UK should have let the Nazis and Commies annihilate each other and saved the lives of young Americans and Brits.

If the UK and the USA had managed to stay out of the war in Europe, then Western Europe would have been subjugated under either Nazi totalitarian rule or Communist totalitarian rule. And what about the oil in the Middle East? Under who's control would that have ended up?

 

[Thunderbird]

Churchill escalated the violence.

quote: Churchill was an ardent proponent of this view, and when he became prime minister he immediately instituted a policy of civilian bombing. Baker aptly cites the British Air Ministry official James Spaight as acknowledging that England, not Germany, began this grossly immoral policy, memorably condemned during the war by the courageous Bishop George Bell.

It was the second night of Churchill's prime ministership… "We began to bomb objectives on the German mainland before the Germans began to bomb objectives on the British mainland."

LINK

 

[Thunderbird]

The US and UK should have let the Nazis and Commies annihilate each other and saved the lives of young Americans and Brits.

If the UK and the USA had managed to stay out of the war in Europe, then Western Europe would have been subjugated under either Nazi totalitarian rule or Communist totalitarian rule.

Or there would have been a stalemate. Or the Germans or Russians would have overthrown their respective dictators.

 

[Thunderbird]

If the British had not foolishly sided with their traditional enemies (Russia and France) during WW I, Europe only would have suffered a brief War of 1914 rather than a cataclysmic civilization-destroying World War. WW I also birthed the barbaric Soviet regime and WW II.

 

[Katzndogz]

Churchill is an enemy of liberals who firmly believe that a quick surrender is the way to world peace.

 

[gipper]

Churchill escalated the violence.

quote: Churchill was an ardent proponent of this view, and when he became prime minister he immediately instituted a policy of civilian bombing. Baker aptly cites the British Air Ministry official James Spaight as acknowledging that England, not Germany, began this grossly immoral policy, memorably condemned during the war by the courageous Bishop George Bell.

It was the second night of Churchill's prime ministership… "We began to bomb objectives on the German mainland before the Germans began to bomb objectives on the British mainland."

LINK

He believed in total war. Destroying German civilians with the massive bombing raids was deplorable, inhumane, and barbaric. Why destroy German civilians? They were not responsible for the heinous actions of their political leadership.

If I recall correctly, several German officers sought help from the Allies to oust Hitler on multiple occasions. The Allies purposely chose to ignore them.

Churchill feared Germany more than he feared the Soviets. He, like most Brits of his time, thought Britannia should rule the world and he believed Germany threatened their hegemony.

Destroying German was dumb. Doing so removed a check on Soviet imperialism. It merely opened up Europe to conquest by the stinking commies.

The fact that FDR was Stalin's Stooge and his administration completely overrun with Soviet spies, which FDR was warned about repeatedly and chose to ignore, makes one conclude FDR a traitor. His son in-law thought so...

the observations of the son-in-law of President Roosevelt, Colonel Curtis Dall, as relayed by Henry Makow, might shed some useful light:

Dall maintained a family loyalty but could not avoid several disheartening conclusions in his book [FDR: My Exploited Father-in-Law, 1970]. He portrays the legendary president not as a leader but as a “quarterback” with little actual power. The “coaching staff” consisted of a coterie of handlers (“advisers” like Louis Howe, Bernard Baruch and Harry Hopkins) who represented the international banking cartel. For Dall, FDR ultimately was a traitor manipulated by “World Money” and motivated by conceit and personal ambition.
http://www.dcdave.com/article5/060409.htm

 

[mememe]

Churchill was a true statesman who miscalculated its biggest game -- WW2, his miscalculation cost Europe dear, and it cost Britain its empire.

 

[Thunderbird]

The fact that FDR was Stalin's Stooge and his administration completely overrun with Soviet spies, which FDR was warned about repeatedly and chose to ignore,

Examples include: Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, Maurice Halperin, Lauchlin Currie, and Nathan Gregory Silvermaster.

 

[ThirdTerm]

It is oft repeated that Churchill "ordered" the firebombing of Dresden as a "vicious payback" for the German bombing of Coventry. Churchill did not think well of area bombing but began to believe it could be a grim necessity after (1) he watched devastating German air attacks on Warsaw, Rotterdam, and other places full of noncombatants; and (2) he could see precious few ideas for hitting back. In the ever lengthening build-up to Normandy, the bomber offensive was about the best he had to hurt the Germans and their industrial war effort. Later, when he saw France liberated, Germany's defensive lines being pierced, and the war being won, he quickly lost taste for it. Churchill's head of Bomber Command, Air Marshal Harris, seemed to think German morale might still be broken by bombing, but Churchill rebuked him after Dresden, and again, just as strongly for bombing Potsdam shortly thereafter. His mind had already turned to how the Allies would govern and occupy Germany; the time for destroying it was passing.

Churchill bombed Dresden as payback for Coventry