Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

[ding]

If the gospel story is a myth, then the Gospel of Judas is no less a fairy tale than the Three Little Pigs.

Who in their right minds would base their tenets on fairy tales?

That would depend on how you read the numbers.

If push came to shove, I think the majority would disavow any real hard belief in anything supernatural.

In Northern Europe, 95 % are Christians, but only about 5% go into a church even once a year.

Politics has a real politique and religions have a real religiontique.

As sub cultures, religionists are not as foolish as their myths make them out to be.

Regards
DL

I think the only myth here is the Gospel of Judas.

P52 can be dated to as early as AD 100, and that fragment is only a copy. The original Gospel of John was almost certainly written in the first century.

None of the Gnostics involved in the production of the Gospel of Judas - a second-century production - remembered the crucifixion story in real time or even heard it second-hand.

All holly books are myths.

Does it really matter when or where worthy words are written?

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Only a militant atheist would argue that Gnostic Christians were atheists.

Socialists, sure. Atheists, no. Way to throw your socialist brethren under the bus, Ivan.

 

[norwegen]

If the gospel story is a myth, then the Gospel of Judas is no less a fairy tale than the Three Little Pigs.

Who in their right minds would base their tenets on fairy tales?

That would depend on how you read the numbers.

If push came to shove, I think the majority would disavow any real hard belief in anything supernatural.

In Northern Europe, 95 % are Christians, but only about 5% go into a church even once a year.

Politics has a real politique and religions have a real religiontique.

As sub cultures, religionists are not as foolish as their myths make them out to be.

Regards
DL

I think the only myth here is the Gospel of Judas.

P52 can be dated to as early as AD 100, and that fragment is only a copy. The original Gospel of John was almost certainly written in the first century.

None of the Gnostics involved in the production of the Gospel of Judas - a second-century production - remembered the crucifixion story in real time or even heard it second-hand.

All holly books are myths.

Does it really matter when or where worthy words are written?

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

When or where "worthy" words are written absolutely matters, or their worthiness is just arbitrary.

The Gospel of Judas and any other texts the Gnostics embrace are highly esoteric. They really have no meaning in the world.

 

[Zander]

Judas had a brooklyn accent too....

 

[GreatestIam]

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Through the prayer at Gethsemane afterwards we hear of Jesus asking for the cup to be lifted if there was any other way. So a conciliatory gift or bribe to a betrayer seems a sensible act to me.

Indeed. Jesus wanted to test the old messiah myth and failed it due to not returning to rule over the Jews.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Neither. He used what Judas intended as evil for good. Same as he is using you.

600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination", he includes in it each person's free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396

Thanks for the compliment.

You have forgotten that. in the myth, Satan enters Judas only after Jesus chose him.

That is when god permitted Satan access to Judas.

That asside.

I already have an anal orifice, so why are you following me around?

Regards
DL

You have forgotten that since you believe it is a myth you don't believe satan entered Judas.

Jesus chose Judas with full knowledge that he would betray him, but Judas still had to make that choice.

Of cource, and he made the right choice, as indicated by the other apostles just sitting back and letting Judas go do the deed tat Jesus wanted him to do.

What I believe is not relevant to analysing the myth and seeing how Christianity has distorted the story.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

If the gospel story is a myth, then the Gospel of Judas is no less a fairy tale than the Three Little Pigs.

Who in their right minds would base their tenets on fairy tales?

That would depend on how you read the numbers.

If push came to shove, I think the majority would disavow any real hard belief in anything supernatural.

In Northern Europe, 95 % are Christians, but only about 5% go into a church even once a year.

Politics has a real politique and religions have a real religiontique.

As sub cultures, religionists are not as foolish as their myths make them out to be.

Regards
DL

I think the only myth here is the Gospel of Judas.

P52 can be dated to as early as AD 100, and that fragment is only a copy. The original Gospel of John was almost certainly written in the first century.

None of the Gnostics involved in the production of the Gospel of Judas - a second-century production - remembered the crucifixion story in real time or even heard it second-hand.

All holly books are myths.

Does it really matter when or where worthy words are written?

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Only a militant atheist would argue that Gnostic Christians were atheists.

Socialists, sure. Atheists, no. Way to throw your socialist brethren under the bus, Ivan.

Most ideologies are superior to your fascist one.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

If the gospel story is a myth, then the Gospel of Judas is no less a fairy tale than the Three Little Pigs.

Who in their right minds would base their tenets on fairy tales?

That would depend on how you read the numbers.

If push came to shove, I think the majority would disavow any real hard belief in anything supernatural.

In Northern Europe, 95 % are Christians, but only about 5% go into a church even once a year.

Politics has a real politique and religions have a real religiontique.

As sub cultures, religionists are not as foolish as their myths make them out to be.

Regards
DL

I think the only myth here is the Gospel of Judas.

P52 can be dated to as early as AD 100, and that fragment is only a copy. The original Gospel of John was almost certainly written in the first century.

None of the Gnostics involved in the production of the Gospel of Judas - a second-century production - remembered the crucifixion story in real time or even heard it second-hand.

All holly books are myths.

Does it really matter when or where worthy words are written?

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

When or where "worthy" words are written absolutely matters, or their worthiness is just arbitrary.

The Gospel of Judas and any other texts the Gnostics embrace are highly esoteric. They really have no meaning in the world.

That is why I use logos and not mythos in most of what I do.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Judas had a brooklyn accent too....

That and I think it strange that Jews would be called English names.

Peter Paul and Mary. Is a musical group.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Neither. He used what Judas intended as evil for good. Same as he is using you.

600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination", he includes in it each person's free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396

Thanks for the compliment.

You have forgotten that. in the myth, Satan enters Judas only after Jesus chose him.

That is when god permitted Satan access to Judas.

That asside.

I already have an anal orifice, so why are you following me around?

Regards
DL

You have forgotten that since you believe it is a myth you don't believe satan entered Judas.

Jesus chose Judas with full knowledge that he would betray him, but Judas still had to make that choice.

Of cource, and he made the right choice, as indicated by the other apostles just sitting back and letting Judas go do the deed tat Jesus wanted him to do.

What I believe is not relevant to analysing the myth and seeing how Christianity has distorted the story.

Regards
DL

No, he made the wrong choice. Just as you have made the wrong choice.

 

[ding]

If the gospel story is a myth, then the Gospel of Judas is no less a fairy tale than the Three Little Pigs.

Who in their right minds would base their tenets on fairy tales?

That would depend on how you read the numbers.

If push came to shove, I think the majority would disavow any real hard belief in anything supernatural.

In Northern Europe, 95 % are Christians, but only about 5% go into a church even once a year.

Politics has a real politique and religions have a real religiontique.

As sub cultures, religionists are not as foolish as their myths make them out to be.

Regards
DL

I think the only myth here is the Gospel of Judas.

P52 can be dated to as early as AD 100, and that fragment is only a copy. The original Gospel of John was almost certainly written in the first century.

None of the Gnostics involved in the production of the Gospel of Judas - a second-century production - remembered the crucifixion story in real time or even heard it second-hand.

All holly books are myths.

Does it really matter when or where worthy words are written?

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

What is God?

Further.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

Only a militant atheist would argue that Gnostic Christians were atheists.

Socialists, sure. Atheists, no. Way to throw your socialist brethren under the bus, Ivan.

Most ideologies are superior to your fascist one.

Regards
DL

Dream on. Your materialist worldview will crash and burn and the meek will inherit the earth.

 

[Desperado]

Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate.

Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way.

A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker.

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan.

If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas.

Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh.

Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL

why is there even a question, He is a traitor, sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver, So despised have you ever know a person named Judas?

 

[GreatestIam]

Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate.

Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way.

A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker.

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan.

If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas.

Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh.

Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL

why is there even a question, He is a traitor, sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver, So despised have you ever know a person named Judas?

Did Jesus want to test the savior myth?

Yes he did.

If Judas had not done as Jesus bid him do, how would Jesus have tested the myth?

Regards
DL

 

[LittleNipper]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

 

[james bond]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

Hm... today, he's still the ultimate traitor, but how did he end up being the treasurer and Apostle?

It seems his life and death has take a life of its own.

Judas Iscariot | Biography, Last Supper, & Facts

Judas Iscariot was one of the Twelve Apostles, notorious for betraying Jesus. Judas’s surname is more probably a corruption of the Latin sicarius (“murderer” or “assassin”) than an indication of family origin, suggesting that he would have belonged to the Sicarii, the most radical Jewish group,

www.britannica.com

 

[GreatestIam]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

So is every Christian preacher. Your point?

Strange that you would think of Jesus as picking such a man to be his disciple and giving him the key job to bring Jesus closer to testing and failing the messianic test, as a mistake made by Jesus.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

So is every Christian preacher. Your point?

Strange that you would think of Jesus as picking such a man to be his disciple and giving him the key job to bring Jesus closer to testing and failing the messianic test, as a mistake made by Jesus.

Regards
DL

Would you like to abolish Christianity, comrade?

 

[GreatestIam]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

So is every Christian preacher. Your point?

Strange that you would think of Jesus as picking such a man to be his disciple and giving him the key job to bring Jesus closer to testing and failing the messianic test, as a mistake made by Jesus.

Regards
DL

Would you like to abolish Christianity, comrade?

I would prefer to smarten Christians up.

That is a better position than Christianity used when they sent the inquisitors out to murder and burn.

Do you think a religion that idol worships a genocidal god should be abolished?

Would you abolish Hitler's S.S., given the chance in those days?

Is there a difference between Yahweh and Hitler?

Both are fascist.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

So is every Christian preacher. Your point?

Strange that you would think of Jesus as picking such a man to be his disciple and giving him the key job to bring Jesus closer to testing and failing the messianic test, as a mistake made by Jesus.

Regards
DL

Would you like to abolish Christianity, comrade?

I would prefer to smarten Christians up.

That is a better position than Christianity used when they sent the inquisitors out to murder and burn.

Do you think a religion that idol worships a genocidal god should be abolished?

Would you abolish Hitler's S.S., given the chance in those days?

Is there a difference between Yahweh and Hitler?

Both are fascist.

Regards
DL

You know you want to say yes but you are too afraid.

 

[ding]

Judas was a thief, a cheat, and a liar.

So is every Christian preacher. Your point?

Strange that you would think of Jesus as picking such a man to be his disciple and giving him the key job to bring Jesus closer to testing and failing the messianic test, as a mistake made by Jesus.

Regards
DL

Would you like to abolish Christianity, comrade?

I would prefer to smarten Christians up.

That is a better position than Christianity used when they sent the inquisitors out to murder and burn.

Do you think a religion that idol worships a genocidal god should be abolished?

Would you abolish Hitler's S.S., given the chance in those days?

Is there a difference between Yahweh and Hitler?

Both are fascist.

Regards
DL

You must be carrying a great pain.

 

[bottlecap]

Judas had free will to betray Jesus or not. Yes, total free will.

HOWEVER, God has foreknowledge, so he already knew that Judas would play his part.

Isaiah 46:10\
" I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please."

The Son also knew about Judas role.

Psalm 41:9

Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me.