Voter roles

j-mac

Nuthin' but the truth
Oct 8, 2013
21,229
13,708
1,290
South Carolina
In a different thread Dragonlady challenged me to lay out the states that refuse to open their voter roles for audit. Right after the 2016 election the ERIC system was adopted to gather data about voter roles and what goes on in elections concerning elections.

In 2012, the Pew Center on the States issued a report on the country’s voter registration system. The report found that “[a]pproximately 24 million—one of every eight—voter registrations” in the U.S. are “no longer valid or are significantly inaccurate.” Pew reported that more than 1.8 million registered voters were deceased and that 2.75 million individuals were registered “in more than one state.”2

Pew Center on the States, Inaccurate, Costly, and Inefficient—Evidence That America’s Voter Registration System Needs an Upgrade, Issue Brief (Feb. 2012), p. 1, https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/l...ets/2012/pewupgradingvoterregistrationpdf.pdf.


In 2020, the Public Interest Legal Foundation (PILF) issued a similar report.3

Public Interest Legal Foundation, Critical Condition—American Voter Rolls Filled with Errors, Dead Voters, and Duplicate Registrations (Sept. 2020), https://publicinterestlegal.org/pilf-files/Report-Critical_Condition-Web-FINAL-FINAL.pdf. Hans von Spakovsky is a member of the board of the Public Interest Legal Foundation, and J. Christian Adams is its president and general counsel.
The PILF obtained voter registration and voting history data for the 2016 and 2018 elections from 42 states, supplemented those data through commercial sources (such as credit agencies) and other government databases (such as Social Security Administration death records), and then compared the data. The Foundation’s findings were disturbing:


  • 14,608 registered voters were credited by state election officials with voting in the 2016 and 2018 elections after they had died;
  • 81,649 voters who were registered twice at the same address voted twice in the 2016 and 2018 elections;
  • 8,360 voters who were registered in two different states voted in both states in the 2018 election;
  • 5,500 voters who were registered twice in the same state but at different addresses voted twice in the 2018 election; and
  • 34,000 voters who were registered at nonresidential addresses, including casinos, gas stations, and restaurants, cast ballots in the 2018 election.4
    Id. at 8.
As outlined in The Heritage Foundation’s Election Integrity Scorecard,5

The Heritage Foundation, Election Integrity Scorecard, The Heritage Foundation's Election Integrity Scorecard.
there is a series of best practices that can enable state election officials to maintain the accuracy of their statewide voter registration lists to find voters who have moved, have died, have become ineligible due to felony convictions, are registered more than once in the state, are not U.S. citizens, or are falsely registered somewhere in the state where they do not reside or no longer actually reside. These measures include comparing updated driver’s license records maintained by a state’s department of motor vehicles (DMV); death records in the state’s vital records office; felony conviction records from the state’s department of corrections; jury information from state and federal courts; and records on recipients of government benefits from state public assistance and welfare offices.


Since state vital records offices record only deaths occurring within the state, election officials should be checking the cumulative Social Security Master Death File to find individuals registered in the state who may have died outside of the state. However, the Social Security Administration warns that although it collects death reports from many sources, its “records are not a comprehensive record of all deaths in the country.”6

Social Security Administration, Requesting SSA’s Death Information, Requesting SSA’s Death Information | Data Exchange | SSA.


States should regularly obtain information from the U.S. Postal Service’s National Change of Address (NCOA) system, which is used by individuals to notify the Postal Service that they are moving so that mail sent to their former address will be forwarded to their new address.7

Office of Inspector General, U.S. Postal Service, National Change of Address Program, Audit Report No. IT-AR-14-010 (Sept. 24, 2014), National Change of Address Program.
The NCOA is, however, of limited use since not all individuals who move use the NCOA process, and the database does not contain any voter registration information. As the Supreme Court of the United States noted in 2018 in Husted v. A. Philip Randolph Institute, as many as “40 percent of people who move do not inform the Postal Service.”8
Husted v. A. Philip Randolph Institute, 138 S.Ct. 1833, 1841 (2018).
Another complication is the fact that many who change their address using the NCOA system (for example, individuals who spend the summer at a vacation home or are studying overseas for a single semester) are changing their address only temporarily.



What is clear, though, is that states can obtain a great deal of the information they need to maintain the accuracy of their voter rolls by using these various in-state and federal databases, especially if they also use commercial databases such as those maintained by credit bureaus. The one thing states cannot obtain on their own from any of these databases is information on whether an individual registered in their state is also registered and voting in another state. That information can be obtained only through an agreement with other states to share their voter registration and voter history data.


Now, keep in mind not all of the states participated in this, wonder why? And, the numbers were shocking considering some states in 2020 were won by as little as 11,000 votes.

So, when we talk about voter fraud, remember, the real cheat is not in that an individual voter is committing the fraud, it’s more ingrained in the system…
 
In a different thread Dragonlady challenged me to lay out the states that refuse to open their voter roles for audit. Right after the 2016 election the ERIC system was adopted to gather data about voter roles and what goes on in elections concerning elections.



Now, keep in mind not all of the states participated in this, wonder why? And, the numbers were shocking considering some states in 2020 were won by as little as 11,000 votes.

So, when we talk about voter fraud, remember, the real cheat is not in that an individual voter is committing the fraud, it’s more ingrained in the system…
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The GOP spearheaded the withdraw from ERIC:
 
In a different thread Dragonlady challenged me to lay out the states that refuse to open their voter roles for audit. Right after the 2016 election the ERIC system was adopted to gather data about voter roles and what goes on in elections concerning elections.



Now, keep in mind not all of the states participated in this, wonder why? And, the numbers were shocking considering some states in 2020 were won by as little as 11,000 votes.

So, when we talk about voter fraud, remember, the real cheat is not in that an individual voter is committing the fraud, it’s more ingrained in the system…
As is pointed out, it were Republican states that actually withdrew from ERIC. Why? Because having accurate voter rolls is NOT in their interest. Casting doubt on the election results is.

This OP, and many like it before and undoubtedly in the future shows that interest.

It's a conclusion I reach using several data points.

First, even if I accept the premise that much of the voter rolls aren't correct you still make several huge jumps in reasoning.

The first jump you make is the assumption that inaccurate voter rolls mean that large scale fraud occurs. Even if a ballot is sent to an incorrect address, it still requires the person living at that address to fake the identity of the voter. Not just a felony, but a felony so you can change a single vote in an election (not exactly worth it IMHO), and a felony that would be picked up on in audits if it would happen at any scale.

The second jump you make is that only Democrats would be willing to commit fraud. Something factually incorrect.


Second. The notion that a Republican would find a honest election so important that the mere possiblity of a single voter casting a fraudulent ballot is ridiculous on its face.

Last time I checked the nominee for the Republican ticket is a guy who literally faked the electoral college votes of entire states and pressured his VP to accept those faked votes to the point of starting an insurrection.

Not only is that fact met with indifference but the majority of Republicans feel he should get another chance.



My opinion is, that in order to justify the very real, blatant, and serious attempts by Trump to commit voter fraud, the only thing Republicans can do is assert that Democrats did it first. And since there's zero evidence to support that assertion the best they can do is cast the system into doubt and let partisanship do the heavy lifting. This OP is simply a result of that.
 
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In a different thread Dragonlady challenged me to lay out the states that refuse to open their voter roles for audit. Right after the 2016 election the ERIC system was adopted to gather data about voter roles and what goes on in elections concerning elections.



Now, keep in mind not all of the states participated in this, wonder why? And, the numbers were shocking considering some states in 2020 were won by as little as 11,000 votes.

So, when we talk about voter fraud, remember, the real cheat is not in that an individual voter is committing the fraud, it’s more ingrained in the system…
Can you find any significant instances of people voting twice or voting for dead people?

Most states don’t want to invest the resources to track down voters who have moved or purge the dead.
They just let them go inactive
 
The first jump you make is the assumption that inaccurate voter rolls mean that large scale fraud occurs.

It is all part of the widespread Republican effort to create doubt in the validity of our elections.
 
It is all part of the widespread Republican effort to create doubt in the validity of our elections.
Yes. The funny thing is that I don't believe J-Mac is doing it on purpose. I believe he's genuinely concerned about voter fraud. The problem is that there's such a degree of cognitive dissonance that he can't distinguish between the possibility of voter fraud, and voter fraud for Democrats. While at the same time being completely unable to recognize that trying to actually forge electoral college votes is both a massive and much more effective way to commit actual voter fraud.


It's a blind spot I see for near all Republicans.
 
Yes. The funny thing is that I don't believe J-Mac is doing it on purpose. I believe he's genuinely concerned about voter fraud. The problem is that there's such a degree of cognitive dissonance that he can't distinguish between the possibility of voter fraud, and voter fraud for Democrats. While at the same time being completely unable to recognize that trying to actually forge electoral college votes is both a massive and much more effective way to commit actual voter fraud.


It's a blind spot I see for near all Republicans.
It goes beyond mistrust in elections
They breed mistrust in the media, Science, medicine, history

Don’t trust anyone…just trust TRUMP
 
Can you find any significant instances of people voting twice or voting for dead people?

Most states don’t want to invest the resources to track down voters who have moved or purge the dead.
They just let them go inactive
Read the report…
 
In my humble opinion...

..... ..... ..... We shouldn't even have voter registration in this country the way it works now.

WW
 

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