Virginity (saving oneself for marriage)

[Foxfyre]

Then again Avatar was not relating how things are. He/she was relating how something could be. And whether or no such perfection is attainable, it does make an excellent argument for chastity before marriage and fidelity after marriage.

 

[High_Gravity]

I would say that sex won't ever 'make' a marriage, but it can certainly wreck it.

Exactly. Anytime you see polls or stats on reasons for divorce, intimacy is always in the top.

Great sex can't save a marriage, but no sex is a great way to lead to divorce.

I disagree. In every statistic I've seen, in every poll I've seen, sexual incompatibility rarely made it into the top five reasons for divorce.

The most common things found among the top three:
InfidelityMoney
Physical, emotional, or psychological abuse
Growing apart/different values/loss of respect

Any and all of these things can affect intimacy. But the fact is that the initial raw passion does cool over time, though sex can be and for many couples is precious and special all the way into the sixties, seventies, eighties. Raw passion or great sex is one of the worst reasons to get married.

Infidelity would be because of a lack of sexual intimacy no?

 

[High_Gravity]

Then again Avatar was not relating how things are. He/she was relating how something could be. And whether or no such perfection is attainable, it does make an excellent argument for chastity before marriage and fidelity after marriage.

But how realistic is that though? in Saudi Arabia pre marital sex is a crime and punishable by a prison term, and even than people have premarital sex in the Kingdom.

 

[AmyNation]

Exactly. Anytime you see polls or stats on reasons for divorce, intimacy is always in the top.

Great sex can't save a marriage, but no sex is a great way to lead to divorce.

I disagree. In every statistic I've seen, in every poll I've seen, sexual incompatibility rarely made it into the top five reasons for divorce.

The most common things found among the top three:
InfidelityMoney
Physical, emotional, or psychological abuse
Growing apart/different values/loss of respect

Any and all of these things can affect intimacy. But the fact is that the initial raw passion does cool over time, though sex can be and for many couples is precious and special all the way into the sixties, seventies, eighties. Raw passion or great sex is one of the worst reasons to get married.

Infidelity would be because of a lack of sexual intimacy no?

One of the top causes of infidelity is neglect.

 

[High_Gravity]

I disagree. In every statistic I've seen, in every poll I've seen, sexual incompatibility rarely made it into the top five reasons for divorce.

The most common things found among the top three:
InfidelityMoney
Physical, emotional, or psychological abuse
Growing apart/different values/loss of respect

Any and all of these things can affect intimacy. But the fact is that the initial raw passion does cool over time, though sex can be and for many couples is precious and special all the way into the sixties, seventies, eighties. Raw passion or great sex is one of the worst reasons to get married.

Infidelity would be because of a lack of sexual intimacy no?

One of the top causes of infidelity is neglect.

Infedelity can be because of a bunch of things, I had a married woman sleep with me because she got into a fight with her husband and was angry at him, when he apologized she stopped sleeping with me.

 

[ima]

Infidelity would be because of a lack of sexual intimacy no?

One of the top causes of infidelity is neglect.

Infedelity can be because of a bunch of things, I had a married woman sleep with me because she got into a fight with her husband and was angry at him, when he apologized she stopped sleeping with me.

Maybe you're just no good in the sack!

 

[High_Gravity]

One of the top causes of infidelity is neglect.

Infedelity can be because of a bunch of things, I had a married woman sleep with me because she got into a fight with her husband and was angry at him, when he apologized she stopped sleeping with me.

Maybe you're just no good in the sack!

Who knows.

 

[Foxfyre]

Then again Avatar was not relating how things are. He/she was relating how something could be. And whether or no such perfection is attainable, it does make an excellent argument for chastity before marriage and fidelity after marriage.

But how realistic is that though? in Saudi Arabia pre marital sex is a crime and punishable by a prison term, and even than people have premarital sex in the Kingdom.

For those who do it that way it--and until the 1960's that was the cultural norm in the USA and most other countries whether or not everybody adhered to it--it is perfectly realistic. You don't have to worry about STD's in a disease free monogamous relationship. Pregnancy is not much of a problem for a committed married couple who want kids.

I am going to guess that of my generation, at least half of the folks who got married were virgins and there was at least a ring and a date for an even larger percentage. For you young spuirts for which there is no social stigma for promiscuity, you can't really imagine such a culture. But it did exist. And I am pretty confident that it produced many more lasting marriages than is the case in the current culture.

 

[AmyNation]

I dont know what "your generation" is, but if you look at the numbers, 1950-1963 only 11% of people were waiting until marriage. 4 Cool Statistics About Abstinence in the USA | WaitingTillMarriage.org


I think sex before marriage used to be considered very bad, so maybe it felt like people were waiting, when behind closed doors, they weren't. There are also other factors, the rise in reliable birth control, the age people are marrying has shifted, as a nation we've become less religious.

 

[Montrovant]

I dont know what "your generation" is, but if you look at the numbers, 1950-1963 only 11% of people were waiting until marriage. 4 Cool Statistics About Abstinence in the USA | WaitingTillMarriage.org


I think sex before marriage used to be considered very bad, so maybe it felt like people were waiting, when behind closed doors, they weren't. There are also other factors, the rise in reliable birth control, the age people are marrying has shifted, as a nation we've become less religious.

Hey! I already said that, I just didn't post a link.

 

[Montrovant]

Then again Avatar was not relating how things are. He/she was relating how something could be. And whether or no such perfection is attainable, it does make an excellent argument for chastity before marriage and fidelity after marriage.

First, I'm pretty sure Avatar is a he.

While his posts may have been hypothetical, I think they were also very speculative. Human nature being what it is, with puberty and the sexual urges of the young, I doubt there has ever been a large-scale example of everyone waiting until getting into a long-term, monogamous relationship.

Really, if people were simply responsible about their sexual activities, whether that's saving themselves for marriage or just making proper use of condoms, a lot of the same improvements might occur.

Again, though, getting teens/young 20s types to be responsible about anything is difficult. I certainly don't remember a lot of it amongst my social circle, or within myself!

 

[Foxfyre]

I dont know what "your generation" is, but if you look at the numbers, 1950-1963 only 11% of people were waiting until marriage. 4 Cool Statistics About Abstinence in the USA | WaitingTillMarriage.org


I think sex before marriage used to be considered very bad, so maybe it felt like people were waiting, when behind closed doors, they weren't. There are also other factors, the rise in reliable birth control, the age people are marrying has shifted, as a nation we've become less religious.

Again I would have to see what criteria is used for 'having sex' because I simply don't believe only 11% waited until marriage to have intercourse. If 'having sex' included 'necking', 'making out', 'heavy petting', 'getting to second or third base' etc., then yeah, most or all probably did do some or most of that. I just believe the percentage of technical virgins on their wedding night was much higher than 11% during that period.

Remember that Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton denied 'having sex'.

 

[AmyNation]

I'm almost positive the number of people who when asked if they engaged in premarital sex and they said yes because they necked, is so nominal as to be a non-factor.

Even Grandma had premarital sex, survey finds - Health - Sexual health | NBC News

91% in that poll said they had premarital sex by age 30. I think, your preception was, everyone waited ( which is understandable) however, they only pretended they did.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm almost positive the number of people who when asked if they engaged in premarital sex and they said yes because they necked, is so nominal as to be a non-factor.

Even Grandma had premarital sex, survey finds - Health - Sexual health | NBC News

91% in that poll said they had premarital sex by age 30. I think, your preception was, everyone waited ( which is understandable) however, they only pretended they did.

Not that many waited until they were 30 to marry back then though. I never said everybody waited. I just said that was the cultural norm and the official expectation. And I'm pretty darn sure that the ring and a date before sex was not included in any survey study. I'm sure quite a few, after making a commitment, may not have waited until the actual wedding day. But even so, I am reasonably certain the percentage was higher than 11%.

The cultural norm back then was also that an honorable man married a woman and made an honest woman of her if he got her pregnant. That was also a cultural expectation. So it is possible that quite a few back then fell into that category, and it is only more recently, when chastity is no longer the cultural expectation, that they now admit they jumped the gun a bit. But no nice girl back then had 'round heels' and no 'decent' man respected the woman who did.

 

[AmyNation]

An yet, the numbers seem to disagree with you. *shrug*

 

[ArmyCowboy]

Ultimately I believe it's a personal decision that people have to make for themselves.

With that said, I don't think people who save themselves or people who sleep around should be denegrated.

Different strokes for different folks (pun intended.)

 

[Foxfyre]

An yet, the numbers seem to disagree with you. *shrug*

Yup. Numbers that don't tell us how they got to a certain number or don't explain precisely what is included in the number frequently don't agree with me. But then very few posting on this thread agree with me. That's nothing new either. Those who wish to engage in recreational sex will find a justification for it. Those who see virtue in at least a degree of chastity will also have a justification for that. And life goes on.

 

[ima]

So was Mary really a virgin? or was joseph just gay or something?

 

[Delia]

The world you are describing just isn't realistic, do you know how many married couples are cheating on each other? just being married does not protect you from STD's.

When I read her post, lovely as it sounded, I have to admit it reminded me of Pleasantville. Did you see that movie?

No I haven't, I thought Avatar was a guy?

I thought Foxfyre posted that.

 

[Delia]

I can't see page 4, anybody else having trouble? The last post I can see is 120.

I switched to 30 posts per page, and now I can continue. Weird.