Vietnam War was unwinnable

OP
harmonica

harmonica

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
29,033
Reaction score
5,875
Points
290
How about if they had taken the restraints off our military?
then what? give me a scenario where we would win
Why? It's a pretty simple concept if you have to allow the enemy to shoot at you before you can engage them. I had several friends who were there and that was sop.
that's plain bullshit--you did not have to wait to be shot at...
Hathcock engaged a Vietcong pushing a weapon-laden bicycle
This Marine used a machine gun to make one of the longest sniper kills ever
 

mikegriffith1

Mike Griffith
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
5,414
Reaction score
1,950
Points
380
Location
Virginia
What a trashy, lame excuse for dodging his duty. Ali didn't mind reaping all the benefits of America's free-enterprise system, but when it came his time to serve his country, he played the race card. Ali knew full well that the Army was not going to send him anywhere near Vietnam. We should have deported him to North Vietnam.

When Elvis Presley got his draft call, he chose to serve. When Ali got his draft call, he chose to dodge the draft, to play the race card, and also to hide behind his supposed conversion to Islam. Humm, yet he was living in sin with a woman after his supposed conversion, in violation of the most basic moral teachings of Islam. When asked about this, he claimed he was "spiritually married" to his shack-up girlfriend. Yeah, uh-huh. It would have taken him about 30 minutes to get married by a justice of the peace.
 

9thIDdoc

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
5,748
Reaction score
1,150
Points
255
..we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
.
Untrue. If we were going to fight there we could and should have invaded the North or leveled it. That is how you finish a war. Win. But the politicians were terrified we might win and made rules that denied us any chance of winning. We might have won at almost any time if it had been allowed right up until those politicians had the ground combat units withdraw in '73.
 
OP
harmonica

harmonica

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
29,033
Reaction score
5,875
Points
290
..we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
.
Untrue. If we were going to fight there we could and should have invaded the North or leveled it. That is how you finish a war. Win. But the politicians were terrified we might win and made rules that denied us any chance of winning. We might have won at almost any time if it had been allowed right up until those politicians had the ground combat units withdraw in '73.
1. we were not going to level or TOTALLY invade the North
a. the North did not bomb Pearl Harbor--the US had no reason and no reason to have the willpower to level/invade/MASSIVE draft/$$$$/etc for a TOTAL war like WW2 against Japan
--what reason is there to level the North?
2. so even if we invaded the North, we couldn't occupy it forever = we lose
3. give more specifics on scenarios how how we would ''level'' the North
4. you don't give much [ none ] proof to back your claims
 
Last edited:
OP
harmonica

harmonica

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
29,033
Reaction score
5,875
Points
290
..we are talking REALITY--not nuking anyone....not invading the north like the Russians and US did to Germany --that wasn't going to happen--even if they did invade the North, they couldn't stay there forever.....
..first--the French lost--and after we gave them MILLIONS$ and with all their '''advantages'' ....this should've been a lesson
......a big problem was the Vietnamese government [ and military ] = for a long time it was corrupt/unstable/etc = they had 3 heads of state changes in less than 2 years--one with a MURDER..with many attempted coups before and after......that mess was still there after Thieu took over
...N Vietnam did not have to even beat the US ......
.......the US could cut off Korea because it was peninsula--where as NV could bring troops/etc to the South over land
.
Untrue. If we were going to fight there we could and should have invaded the North or leveled it. That is how you finish a war. Win. But the politicians were terrified we might win and made rules that denied us any chance of winning. We might have won at almost any time if it had been allowed right up until those politicians had the ground combat units withdraw in '73.
o yes--the French lost also---gee I wonder why?
so the French AND the US.......??!!!
 

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
36,451
Reaction score
8,731
Points
1,330
What a trashy, lame excuse for dodging his duty. Ali didn't mind reaping all the benefits of America's free-enterprise system, but when it came his time to serve his country, he played the race card. Ali knew full well that the Army was not going to send him anywhere near Vietnam. We should have deported him to North Vietnam.

When Elvis Presley got his draft call, he chose to serve. When Ali got his draft call, he chose to dodge the draft, to play the race card, and also to hide behind his supposed conversion to Islam. Humm, yet he was living in sin with a woman after his supposed conversion, in violation of the most basic moral teachings of Islam. When asked about this, he claimed he was "spiritually married" to his shack-up girlfriend. Yeah, uh-huh. It would have taken him about 30 minutes to get married by a justice of the peace.
LOL. Why do people think serving your country is a good thing, when in war it merely means serving the needs of the oligarchy?
 

Desperado

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
31,689
Reaction score
5,334
Points
1,140
Define winnable?
Yes the US could have nuked the North but would that have been a win?
First thing to know is that we should never have been involve there in the first place. There was absolutely no need for US troops in Vietnam.
Second if you are going to fight a war, Fight to win, no restrictions, keep politicians out of it,
Third Learn from history, something the US has failed at.
Afghanistan is the new Vietnam
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
208,852
Reaction score
35,852
Points
2,190
What a trashy, lame excuse for dodging his duty. Ali didn't mind reaping all the benefits of America's free-enterprise system, but when it came his time to serve his country, he played the race card. Ali knew full well that the Army was not going to send him anywhere near Vietnam. We should have deported him to North Vietnam.

When Elvis Presley got his draft call, he chose to serve. When Ali got his draft call, he chose to dodge the draft, to play the race card, and also to hide behind his supposed conversion to Islam. Humm, yet he was living in sin with a woman after his supposed conversion, in violation of the most basic moral teachings of Islam. When asked about this, he claimed he was "spiritually married" to his shack-up girlfriend. Yeah, uh-huh. It would have taken him about 30 minutes to get married by a justice of the peace.
You are correct, Ali could have gotten light duty like Elvis. Easy enough to just take the oath and cross the line.

Instead, he chose his religious beliefs over an unjust war. Cost him three years, his title and millions of dollars.

The Supreme Court unanimously agreed with Ali.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
208,852
Reaction score
35,852
Points
2,190

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
36,451
Reaction score
8,731
Points
1,330
Meanwhile, Ho Chi Mihn had spent his whole life fighting foreign invaders... which made him a hero.
Right. Here is some little known history (in the U.S.) of HoChiMinh, how he was radicalized, and how he sought U.S. support after WWI and WWII: The Radicalization of Ho Chi Minh
When given a choice, the US chose to support the Colonial Powers over the right of people to choose their government
The US government has a very long track record of doing this, but somehow the American people are unaware.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top