Zone1 Videos about the veracity of the Bible

[BreezeWood]

It is in Jerusalem that Heaven itself comes to earth.

not as long as the jew israelis conduct their war of genocide against the palestinians ... perpetuate their false commandments, hereditary idolatry, religion of apartheid et al those changes demanded by the 1st century events the jews continue to commit to this day.

 

[alang1216]

Well, guess what. Romans thought Jesus thought of himself as a king, but they didn't think him a traitor to Rome.

Rome already had a king/emperor/Caesar. Anyone claiming that title was a traitor to Rome.

Keep working on that "that is unclear," angle. That's what Christians do when they can't answer my question. It gives them comfort.

I'm not a Christian and I did answer your question. You may not like the answer but that is not my problem.

 

[alang1216]

Someone did. The Pharisees.

In one event, there were 5,000 men following Him. Women and children were not counted, and probably out numbered the men. The total count would be 10,000 to 20,000. There were 4 eyewitnesses that wrote about it. In another incident, Jesus was nearly pushed into the sea by a mob of people trying to get close to Him. He continued to talk to them all from a boat.
Jesus was a threat, not to Rome, but to the Priests.

Were the 4 eyewitnesses Christians cited in the NT?

The Bible gives us history in advance, and warns against adding to it or taking from it.

Not everyone got the memo as several things were added to it.

There are levels of information in the Bible, including a computer program that is embedded in the Book, that require specific letters to extract the code. That is why it is primarily in the Old Testament.

Interesting. Got a link with more info?

Keep in mind that for a few hundred years, everything Christian was destroyed, including the believers. But Jesus said His words would never pass away. Prophesy fulfilled.

Alas, his words are long gone. All we have are second, third, and fourth hand translations, at best.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, it is also a historical book. As the video explains, these are real people talking about real events in history.

Then every book is a historical book, if it isn't fiction.

Even some fiction books have real people talking about real events. So I guess those are historical books, too.

If we have to lower the bar that far, it kind of proves the original point.

 

[Zebra]

Who was this preacher who ran afoul of Roman authority?

i think he ran afoul of the Pharisees?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Did you guys know the Harry Potter series is a historical series of books?

I mean, London is a real place.

 

[norwegen]

i think he ran afoul of the Pharisees?

Jesus? Yes, the Jews persecuted him. The Romans did not.

 

[Votto]

Then every book is a historical book, if it isn't fiction.

Even some fiction books have real people talking about real events. So I guess those are historical books, too.

If we have to lower the bar that far, it kind of proves the original point.

 

[Votto]

 

[Votto]

 

[Votto]

 

[task0778]

There are plenty of examples where history and theology conflict and generally the theology wins.

There are also cases where history and theology correlate somewhat but as they say, correlation does not prove causation. IOW, there may have been several events that took place and are mentioned in the Bible, but no evidence that God had anything to do with it. The Bible is in fact a compendium of writings by different people in different times and places and in different languages that have been copied, interpreted, and translated over and over again. Who is to say that the wording wasn't changed from the original that sufficiently changed the meaning? How would anyone really know if any or all of the original writers were divinely guided to write God's Word/Will or their own personal version?

IMHO, it comes down to faith, man believes what he wants to believe and disregards the rest. Parts of the Bible may be true, partly true, or fictitious. Each of us is entitled to accept or deny any or all of it.

 

[Votto]

There are also cases where history and theology correlate somewhat but as they say, correlation does not prove causation. IOW, there may have been several events that took place and are mentioned in the Bible, but no evidence that God had anything to do with it. The Bible is in fact a compendium of writings by different people in different times and places and in different languages that have been copied, interpreted, and translated over and over again. Who is to say that the wording wasn't changed from the original that sufficiently changed the meaning? How would anyone really know if any or all of the original writers were divinely guided to write God's Word/Will or their own personal version?

IMHO, it comes down to faith, man believes what he wants to believe and disregards the rest. Parts of the Bible may be true, partly true, or fictitious. Each of us is entitled to accept or deny any or all of it.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are good evidence that the Bible has not been altered like many claim

For example, we have all the books of the OT from aniquity, aside from the book of Ester.

And then there is this regarding the NT claims from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

[task0778]

The Dead Sea Scrolls are good evidence that the Bible has not been altered like many claim

The vast majority of the Dead Sea Scrolls were simply copies of books of the Old Testament from 250-150 B.C. But the OT writings were written long before that, so how would you know if the original writings were changed before the DSS documents were created?


... Above all else, the contents of the scrolls show the remarkable flexibility and variety of Jewish thought and practice and demolish any notion of a uniform “Judaism” at that time.


IOW, there was a variety of religious sects. Who is to say that the current Bible reflects what the original writings intended? Perhaps the DSS manuscripts were just one sect's perspective of the various parts of the Bible. Did they exclude some writings or change the wording?


.... The Dead Sea Scrolls also testify to a period of theological creativity, of social fissure, of intense expectation and passion within the wider perspective of Judaism and Christianity. The scrolls’ occasional contradictions betray tensions between the goals of personal holiness and national redemption; between human and heavenly redeemers; between faith and knowledge as the means of salvation; between free will and predestination; and between an anthropology of human holiness and an anthropology of human depravity.

Dead Sea Scrolls - Ancient Texts, Biblical Manuscripts, Qumran | Britannica

Dead Sea Scrolls - Ancient Texts, Biblical Manuscripts, Qumran: The group at Qumrān has been identified with many Jewish sects of the time. Even though some scholars believe the community to have been a branch of the Sadducees or Zealots, most believe that they were Essenes. The group is...

www.britannica.com

So, there were contradictions. What was the truth and what wasn't? According to who? My problem with all of this is that there is no possible way to prove divine guidance from the time the 1st biblical accounts were created up to and including now. Which is not to say the Bible we know today isn't God's truth; those who believe it is are doing so on faith and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Votto]

Then every book is a historical book, if it isn't fiction.

Even some fiction books have real people talking about real events. So I guess those are historical books, too.

If we have to lower the bar that far, it kind of proves the original point.

 

[Votto]

The vast majority of the Dead Sea Scrolls were simply copies of books of the Old Testament from 250-150 B.C. But the OT writings were written long before that, so how would you know if the original writings were changed before the DSS documents were created?


... Above all else, the contents of the scrolls show the remarkable flexibility and variety of Jewish thought and practice and demolish any notion of a uniform “Judaism” at that time.


IOW, there was a variety of religious sects. Who is to say that the current Bible reflects what the original writings intended? Perhaps the DSS manuscripts were just one sect's perspective of the various parts of the Bible. Did they exclude some writings or change the wording?


.... The Dead Sea Scrolls also testify to a period of theological creativity, of social fissure, of intense expectation and passion within the wider perspective of Judaism and Christianity. The scrolls’ occasional contradictions betray tensions between the goals of personal holiness and national redemption; between human and heavenly redeemers; between faith and knowledge as the means of salvation; between free will and predestination; and between an anthropology of human holiness and an anthropology of human depravity.

Dead Sea Scrolls - Ancient Texts, Biblical Manuscripts, Qumran | Britannica

Dead Sea Scrolls - Ancient Texts, Biblical Manuscripts, Qumran: The group at Qumrān has been identified with many Jewish sects of the time. Even though some scholars believe the community to have been a branch of the Sadducees or Zealots, most believe that they were Essenes. The group is...

www.britannica.com

So, there were contradictions. What was the truth and what wasn't? According to who? My problem with all of this is that there is no possible way to prove divine guidance from the time the 1st biblical accounts were created up to and including now. Which is not to say the Bible we know today isn't God's truth; those who believe it is are doing so on faith and there's nothing wrong with that.

What specific contradictions are you referring too?

I don't know of any of any significance.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What specific contradictions are you referring too?

I don't know of any of any significance.

Well, we could start with childish, magical claims like resurrection and any other "miracle" that contradicts reality.

 

[Hafar1014]

If you choose to believe in Jesus God bless you its a free country

 

[Hafar1014]

not as long as the jew israelis conduct their war of genocide against the palestinians ... perpetuate their false commandments, hereditary idolatry, religion of apartheid et al those changes demanded by the 1st century events the jews continue to commit to this day.

These threads always attract the nuts. Like flies on crap. Ya gotta love them they ae so much fun. Nothing they say will make any difference because they just dont matter

 

[task0778]

What specific contradictions are you referring too?

I don't know of any of any significance.

While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament; some manuscripts, especially the books of Exodus and Samuel, found in Cave Four, exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their amazing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text from only three manuscript families: the Masoretic text, the Hebrew original of the Septuagint, and the very fluid until its canonization around 100 CE.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5440&context=jur

Who can say what the true versions or words in the original texts were?

I quoted the reference in the Brittanica link for 'occasional contradictions' (post #34). There are apparently two different versions of Isaiah in Qumran Cave 1 (one a precursor to the received Hebrew text, the other anomalous to Qumran). I do not intend to argue the significance of anything relevant to the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS), but back in the day over 2,000 years ago there were different opinions of God and the Jewish religion; the DSS were apparently written or transcribed by one of the various sects. It very well maybe that other Jewish sects had their own versions or interpretations of those ancient texts that contradicted each other.