USS Liberty

[Robert W]

People go to jail for bookkeeping felonies all the time, guy.

But this time the felony was invented.

 

[Robert W]

Trump once bragged he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any voters.

Has that happened?

 

[Robert W]

You proved him right.

Who has Trump shot?

 

[mikegriffith1]

The myth that the Israeli jets were unmarked was belatedly created by USS Liberty crew member Lloyd Painter. Painter falsely claimed in a 2010 documentary that the Israeli jets were unmarked. However, another crew member said the Israeli jets were marked, and Painter said nothing about unmarked jets during his earlier Navy Court of Inquiry testimony.

Painter also falsely claimed that the Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned life rafts that were in the water. However, Painter said nothing about this in his earlier Navy Court of Inquiry testimony. In fact, not one of the crew members who testified at the inquiry said the jets were unmarked or that the torpedo boats fired on life rafts in the water.

The Israeli jets had been diverted from two other missions to attack the Liberty because the Israelis believed the Liberty was the Egyptian ship that they thought had shelled El Arish. The Mirage fighters had been on a combat air patrol mission in the Sinai and the Mystere fighters had been on a ground-attack mission in the Sinai.

Painter is a prime example of a Liberty survivor who was so consumed with hate over the accidental attack that he felt justified in making false claims to try to make it seem that the attack was premeditated and deliberate.

USS Liberty | The Six-Day War

The USS Liberty, a US intelligence gathering ship, was steaming more than 10 miles off the coast of El Arish on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of the Six Day War, when at around 2 P.M. Israeli jets, responding to reports of shelling from the sea, attacked with cannon and napalm. Soon afterwards

www.sixdaywar.org

 

[JoeB131]

The myth that the Israeli jets were unmarked was belatedly created by USS Liberty crew member Lloyd Painter. Painter falsely claimed in a 2010 documentary that the Israeli jets were unmarked. However, another crew member said the Israeli jets were marked, and Painter said nothing about unmarked jets during his earlier Navy Court of Inquiry testimony.

Painter also falsely claimed that the Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned life rafts that were in the water. However, Painter said nothing about this in his earlier Navy Court of Inquiry testimony. In fact, not one of the crew members who testified at the inquiry said the jets were unmarked or that the torpedo boats fired on life rafts in the water.

Or Painter told this to the Navy Inquiry and it was covered up.

This is the problem when you let Jews take over your government. Americans get screwed.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Or Painter told this to the Navy Inquiry and it was covered up.

LOL! Yes, of course. So now the Navy Court of Inquiry was coopted by the Jews and the inquiry transcripts were faked or doctored too. You bet. Sounds totally believable. IOW, all the evidence that points to friendly fire must have been faked or doctored--the inquiry hearings, the U.S. intercepts of Israeli comms, the Israeli comms transcripts, the gun camera footage, etc., etc.!

This is the problem when you let Jews take over your government. Americans get screwed.

My only reply to this garbage is that I'm glad you're discrediting yourself by showing what an anti-Semitic wingnut you are.

 

[JoeB131]

LOL! Yes, of course. So now the Navy Court of Inquiry was coopted by the Jews and the inquiry transcripts were faked or doctored too. You bet. Sounds totally believable. IOW, all the evidence that points to friendly fire must have been faked or doctored--the inquiry hearings, the U.S. intercepts of Israeli comms, the Israeli comms transcripts, the gun camera footage, etc., etc.!

All the evidence points to the Zionists shooting up a clearly-marked American Ship in international waters.

My only reply to this garbage is that I'm glad you're discrediting yourself by showing what an anti-Semitic wingnut you are.

 

[Grau]

The myth that the Israeli jets were unmarked was belatedly created by USS Liberty crew member Lloyd Painter. Painter falsely claimed in a 2010 documentary that the Israeli jets were unmarked. However, another crew member said the Israeli jets were marked, and Painter said nothing about unmarked jets during his earlier Navy Court of Inquiry testimony.

Painter also falsely claimed that the Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned life rafts that were in the water. However, Painter said nothing about this in his earlier Navy Court of Inquiry testimony. In fact, not one of the crew members who testified at the inquiry said the jets were unmarked or that the torpedo boats fired on life rafts in the water.

The Israeli jets had been diverted from two other missions to attack the Liberty because the Israelis believed the Liberty was the Egyptian ship that they thought had shelled El Arish. The Mirage fighters had been on a combat air patrol mission in the Sinai and the Mystere fighters had been on a ground-attack mission in the Sinai.

Painter is a prime example of a Liberty survivor who was so consumed with hate over the accidental attack that he felt justified in making false claims to try to make it seem that the attack was premeditated and deliberate.

USS Liberty | The Six-Day War

The USS Liberty, a US intelligence gathering ship, was steaming more than 10 miles off the coast of El Arish on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of the Six Day War, when at around 2 P.M. Israeli jets, responding to reports of shelling from the sea, attacked with cannon and napalm. Soon afterwards

www.sixdaywar.org

You really expect anyone to believe anything from Zionist shill site, "CAMERA"?

If there were any truth to the traitorous rubbish you've been parroting, you'd be $10,000- richer.


"$10,000 Challenge"
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/10000challenge.html

EXCERPT "The Liberty Veterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish the truth of A. Jay Cristol's claim:

"After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship." CONTINUED

 

[mikegriffith1]

I should add that three other peddlers of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory are Alex Jones, the radical Muslim Iranian regime, and the Russian-owned TV channel RT.

Yes, the same Alex Jones who infamously said the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax. Yes, the same Iranian regime that continues to deny the Holocaust, continues to call for Israel's destruction, and continues to terrorize its own people. Yes, the same RT that is owned by the Russian government and that routinely spews Russian propaganda.

This will give readers some idea of the fringe, sleazy nature of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory. It also explains why one of the anti-Semitic Israel haters in this forum started this thread, and why some of his fellow anti-Semites are posting in this thread. Note, too, that the OP for this thread features a video by Candace Owens--yes, the same Candace Owens who says that the Moon landings were faked and that the Nazis did not really carry out numerous cruel medical experiments at Auschwitz.

Almost invariably, those who still peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory end up revealing themselves to be anti-Semites and/or Israel haters. This is because virtually anyone who looks at the evidence without being blinded by such extremism can readily see that the attack was nothing but a tragic case of friendly fire. In fact, there have been friendly fire incidents that were much more baffling and seemingly inexcusable than the USS Liberty incident.

Here is a good video that summarizes the USS Liberty incident and that discusses the confusion among conspiracy theorists about why Israel would have knowingly attacked a U.S. ship:

The USS Liberty: Friendly Fire or Conspiracy? • Unpacked for Educators

In this video, we unpack the events surrounding one of the tragedies of the Six Day War, when Israel mistakenly fired at the American spy ship, USS

unpacked.education

 

[JoeB131]

I should add that three other peddlers of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory are Alex Jones, the radical Muslim Iranian regime, and the Russian-owned TV channel RT.

Yes, the same Alex Jones who infamously said the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax. Yes, the same Iranian regime that continues to deny the Holocaust, continues to call for Israel's destruction, and continues to terrorize its own people. Yes, the same RT that is owned by the Russian government and that routinely spews Russian propaganda.

Even a broken Clock is right twice a day. I also don't think the Iranians care that much about the USS Liberty. The Little Satan attacks the Great Satan... they don't care.

This will give readers some idea of the fringe, sleazy nature of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory. It also explains why one of the anti-Semitic Israel haters in this forum started this thread, and why some of his fellow anti-Semites are posting in this thread. Note, too, that the OP for this thread features a video by Candace Owens--yes, the same Candace Owens who says the Moon landings were faked and that the Nazis did not really carry out numerous cruel medical experiments at Auschwitz.

Mikey, just because these people have some crazy ideas is not material to whether or not the Zionist Entity attacked the Liberty. (Which everyone agrees they did.)

You have a shitload of crazy ideas. I invite everyone to spend some time on Mike's "Real Issues" home page. It's a ******* hoot.

Among other nuggets of crazy-

Japan was justified in bombing Pearl Harbor because FDR cut off their oil.
The Rape of Nanking wasn't that bad. ( I think he wants to rename it the "inappropriate touching of Nanking")
The Vietnam War was a good idea.
George Custer wasn't a complete knob who got most of his men killed.
Evolution was a hoax.

Here is a good video that summarizes the USS Liberty incident and that discusses the confusion among conspiracy theorists about why Israel would have knowingly attacked a U.S. ship:

Thanks, we get enough Zionist Propaganda in this country.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Even a broken Clock is right twice a day. I also don't think the Iranians care that much about the USS Liberty. The Little Satan attacks the Great Satan... they don't care.

FYI, the Iranian regime has repeatedly peddled your USS Liberty conspiracy theory.

Mikey, just because these people have some crazy ideas is not material to whether or not the Zionist Entity attacked the Liberty. (Which everyone agrees they did.)

LOL! Oh, "everyone agrees they did"?! Uh, well, every U.S. Government investigation into the Liberty incident did not agree with you. In addition, you won't find a reputable, mainstream historian who agrees with your slimy USS Liberty conspiracy theory. Every credible historian who has examined the incident has concluded it was a tragic case of friendly fire.

You have a &^&* of crazy ideas.

Coming from an anti-Semitic, Mao-loving wingnut like you, I'll take that as a compliment.

I invite everyone to spend some time on Mike's "Real Issues" home page. It's a &^%^& hoot.

It might be a "hoot" to your wingnut mind, but it's not to most of those who read the articles on the website.

Among other nuggets of crazy-

Japan was justified in bombing Pearl Harbor because FDR cut off their oil. [MG: FDR did much more than that, and saying Japan had a valid reason to attack Pearl Harbor is not the same thing as saying they should have done so, as I have explained to you many times.]
The Rape of Nanking wasn't that bad. ( I think he wants to rename it the "inappropriate touching of Nanking") [MG: You know this is a lie. You accept the discredited Chinese Communist version of the massacre, whereas I do not.]
The Vietnam War was a good idea. [MG: And? Yes, it most certainly was a good idea to try to keep 19 million South Vietnamese from falling under Communist tyranny, which included concentration camps and mass executions after the Communists took over. Most military historians continue to argue that the war was a noble effort that would have succeeded if LBJ had forced our forces to fight under insane restrictions and if the Democrat-controlled Congress had not stabbed South Vietnam in the back.]
George Custer wasn't a complete knob who got most of his men killed. [MG: FYI, virtually every historian who has published a book on Custer in the last 20 years agrees that Custer was a skilled commander and that his attack would have succeeded if his two chief subordinates had not egregiously disobeyed his orders.]
Evolution was a hoax. [MG: Macroevolution is a hoax, a silly hoax at that. Microevolution, i.e., the development of new species within a genus via random processes or breeding is not and is accepted by virtually everyone. Literally thousands of scientists and scholars reject macroevolution is abjectly impossible and wildly implausible.]

It is comical that you equate those positions with your advocacy of genuinely nutting, fringe positions, i.e., that you would compare those positions with your USS Liberty conspiracy theory, with your adoring communist portrayal of mass murderers Mao and Stalin, with your claim that Israel was anxious to give up the Sinai, with your claim that there was no such thing as Free China, with your claim that Mao's rule was actually less repressive than Chiang Kai-Shek's rule, with your claim that Stalin did not really murder tens of millions of people, with you claim that Mao did not murder tens of millions of people.

And, as many readers here already know, you continue to tell the brazen lie that I believe the Nanking Massacre "wasn't that bad." Do you have any idea how you discredit yourself when you keep repeating this blatant lie, when anyone can go read the thread on the subject and see that my position on the massacre bears no resemblance to your ugly fantasy, and when I have recently repeated my position to you?

Thanks, we get enough Zionist Propaganda in this country.

IOW, you didn't even bother to watch the video. No rational person in their mind who watches that video is going to conclude that it is "Zionist propaganda."

I must say, and I'm being totally serious here, that I appreciate that you don't shy away from showing everyone just how fringe, uneducated, and hateful you are. You don't try to sugarcoat your extremism, hate, and aberrance.

 

[Robert W]

Note, too, that the OP for this thread features a video by Candace Owens--yes, the same Candace Owens who says that the Moon landings were faked

Let's all listen to what she actually said. Wild ass tales get told as were they true.

 

[Grau]

I should add that three other peddlers of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory are Alex Jones, the radical Muslim Iranian regime, and the Russian-owned TV channel RT.

Yes, the same Alex Jones who infamously said the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax. Yes, the same Iranian regime that continues to deny the Holocaust, continues to call for Israel's destruction, and continues to terrorize its own people. Yes, the same RT that is owned by the Russian government and that routinely spews Russian propaganda.

This will give readers some idea of the fringe, sleazy nature of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory. It also explains why one of the anti-Semitic Israel haters in this forum started this thread, and why some of his fellow anti-Semites are posting in this thread. Note, too, that the OP for this thread features a video by Candace Owens--yes, the same Candace Owens who says that the Moon landings were faked and that the Nazis did not really carry out numerous cruel medical experiments at Auschwitz.

Almost invariably, those who still peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory end up revealing themselves to be anti-Semites and/or Israel haters. This is because virtually anyone who looks at the evidence without being blinded by such extremism can readily see that the attack was nothing but a tragic case of friendly fire. In fact, there have been friendly fire incidents that were much more baffling and seemingly inexcusable than the USS Liberty incident.

Here is a good video that summarizes the USS Liberty incident and that discusses the confusion among conspiracy theorists about why Israel would have knowingly attacked a U.S. ship:

The USS Liberty: Friendly Fire or Conspiracy? • Unpacked for Educators

In this video, we unpack the events surrounding one of the tragedies of the Six Day War, when Israel mistakenly fired at the American spy ship, USS

unpacked.education

You can spam the forum with traitorous Zionist lies all you want but you always run away when confronted with irrefutable facts.

When are Israel's gaggle of Zionist shills going to explain how IDF's machine gunning lowered life rafts for wounded Americans at close range was an "accident"?

"Commonly Asked Questions about the USS Liberty"

"Prepared by the Independent Commission of Inquiry"

Commonly Asked Questions about the USS Liberty

If Americans Knew is dedicated to providing Americans with everything they need to know about Israel and Palestine.

ifamericaknew.org

EXCERPT "After the attack was thought to have ended, three life rafts were lowered into the water to rescue the most seriously wounded. The Israeli torpedo boats returned and machine-gunned these life rafts at close range."CONTINUED


The fact that not one traitorous "Liberty Liars" can refute any of. the facts I've posted so far speaks louder than all of their long debunked Hasbara spam and simple minded accusations of "anti Semitism".


Meanwhile:

"An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews;

nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.”


- Gilad Atzmon, Jewish musician and author, 2011

Gilad Atzmon Quote: “An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.”

“An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.” — Quote by Gilad Atzmon

quotefancy.com

 

[mikegriffith1]

You can spam the forum with traitorous Zionist lies all you want but you always run away when confronted with irrefutable facts.

When are Israel's gaggle of Zionist shills going to explain how IDF's machine gunning lowered life rafts for wounded Americans at close range was an "accident"?

"Commonly Asked Questions about the USS Liberty"

"Prepared by the Independent Commission of Inquiry"

Commonly Asked Questions about the USS Liberty

If Americans Knew is dedicated to providing Americans with everything they need to know about Israel and Palestine.

ifamericaknew.org

EXCERPT "After the attack was thought to have ended, three life rafts were lowered into the water to rescue the most seriously wounded. The Israeli torpedo boats returned and machine-gunned these life rafts at close range."CONTINUED

The fact that not one traitorous "Liberty Liars" can refute any of. the facts I've posted so far speaks louder than all of their long debunked Hasbara spam and simple minded accusations of "anti Semitism".

Meanwhile:

"An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.”

- Gilad Atzmon, Jewish musician and author, 2011

Gilad Atzmon Quote: “An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.”

“An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.” — Quote by Gilad Atzmon

quotefancy.com

If anyone visits the If America Knew website that you've cited, they will quickly see that it is a whacko, extremist pro-Hamas, anti-Israeli tirade that argues that Israel should not even exist. Its FAQ is a joke.

Gilad Atzmon?! "Jewish"?! Atzmon identifies himself as a Palestinian and said long ago that he is "not a Jew anymore." Citing him as a "Jewish" source is like citing Noam Chomsky as an "American" source. Atzmon has said he'd be fine with a Palestinian state controlled by radical Muslims who imposed Sharia law (as they have done in Gaza). Atzmon also claims that all of Israel exists on "stolen land."

Thank you for proving once again that invariably the fringe minority who still peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory are anti-Semitic Israel haters.

 

[Grau]

MORE EVASIONS, INSULTS AND FALSEHOODS

If anyone visits the If America Knew website that you've cited, they will quickly see that it is a whacko, extremist pro-Hamas, anti-Israeli tirade that argues that Israel should not even exist. Its FAQ is a joke.

Gilad Atzmon?! "Jewish"?! Atzmon identifies himself as a Palestinian and said long ago that he is "not a Jew anymore." Citing him as a "Jewish" source is like citing Noam Chomsky as an "American" source. Atzmon has said he'd be fine with a Palestinian state controlled by radical Muslims who imposed Sharia law (as they have done in Gaza). Atzmon also claims that all of Israel exists on "stolen land."

Thank you for proving once again that invariably the fringe minority who still peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory are anti-Semitic Israel haters.

It's always some excuse to evade the irrefutable facts and trot out fraudulent accusations of anti Semitism.

The facts are the same regardless of the source and the only source you've got is a proven liar:

"$10,000 Challenge"
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/10000challenge.html

EXCERPT ""The Liberty Veterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish the truth of A. Jay Cristol's claim:

"After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship. "CONTINUED



For the 5th time, I'll ask the same question that disloyal "Israel Firsters" are afraid to touch:

"When are Israel's gaggle of Zionist shills going to explain how IDF's machine gunning lowered life rafts for wounded Americans at close range was an "accident"?"

 

[JoeB131]

FYI, the Iranian regime has repeatedly peddled your USS Liberty conspiracy theory.

Oh, have they? I don't have the subscription to Iranian State TV that you have. One bunch of religious fanatics is pretty much like the other.

LOL! Oh, "everyone agrees they did"?! Uh, well, every U.S. Government investigation into the Liberty incident did not agree with you. In addition, you won't find a reputable, mainstream historian who agrees with your slimy USS Liberty conspiracy theory. Every credible historian who has examined the incident has concluded it was a tragic case of friendly fire.

Did they say that Israel didn't bomb the Liberty? Was it the Sherpas? The Roswell aliens? Who bombed the Liberty?

Coming from an anti-Semitic, Mao-loving wingnut like you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Guy, The Palestinians are more "Semitic" than the European Squatters. Let's get real here.

It is comical that you equate those positions with your advocacy of genuinely nutting, fringe positions, i.e., that you would compare those positions with your USS Liberty conspiracy theory, with your adoring communist portrayal of mass murderers Mao and Stalin,

Hey, it's not my adoration that is the issue. The Chinese revere Mao. Russians, despite Krushev's best efforts, still revere Stalin for his leadership in the Great Patriotic War.

with your claim that Israel was anxious to give up the Sinai,

They did, didn't they?

with your claim that there was no such thing as Free China,

Chi'ang was a fascist. They only reason they didn't let him into the Axis was because he was so ******* incompetent.

with your claim that Mao's rule was actually less repressive than Chiang Kai-Shek's rule,

You should probably Study Chinese history. Under Chiang, most of the country was under the rule of warlords who pledged fealty to him, and were allowed to do whatever they wanted to their own people.

with your claim that Stalin did not really murder tens of millions of people, with you claim that Mao did not murder tens of millions of people.

tens of millions, nowhere near.

The only way you get into the high numbers is if you count war deaths and famine deaths. Now, I can make a pretty good criticism of the Great Leap Forward as bad policy. (Overreporting of grain yeilds, slaughtering sparrows as pests, etc.) But 1959 (which my wife lived through) was hardly China's first famine.

IOW, you didn't even bother to watch the video. No rational person in their mind who watches that video is going to conclude that it is "Zionist propaganda."

Blah, blah, blah.. the Jews didn't do what we all caught them doing.

I must say, and I'm being totally serious here, that I appreciate that you don't shy away from showing everyone just how fringe, uneducated, and hateful you are. You don't try to sugarcoat your extremism, hate, and aberrance.

You prefer people who keep their disdain for Zionists quiet.

 

[JoeB131]

Mike doesn't know how to use the quote function, but let's have some fun with this stuff.

[MG: FDR did much more than that, and saying Japan had a valid reason to attack Pearl Harbor is not the same thing as saying they should have done so, as I have explained to you many times.]

No, mike, Japan had no valid reason to attack Pearl Harbor (and pretty much the rest of Asia). They were engaged in a genocidal war in China. FDR rightfully cut off first their supplies of metals, and finally their supply of crude oil. Instead of negotiating in good faith, they launched a sneak attack while pretending to send peace envoys.

The Rape of Nanking wasn't that bad. ( I think he wants to rename it the "inappropriate touching of Nanking") [MG: You know this is a lie. You accept the discredited Chinese Communist version of the massacre, whereas I do not.]

Except they aren't discredited.


The Vietnam War was a good idea. [MG: And? Yes, it most certainly was a good idea to try to keep 19 million South Vietnamese from falling under Communist tyranny, which included concentration camps and mass executions after the Communists took over. Most military historians continue to argue that the war was a noble effort that would have succeeded if LBJ had forced our forces to fight under insane restrictions and if the Democrat-controlled Congress had not stabbed South Vietnam in the back.]

Sweet Evil ******* Jesus, really?

We dropped more bombs on North Vietnam than we did on Germany and Japan combined. We defoliated whole forests that have yet to entirely recover. We expanded the war into Laos and Cambodia. All to impose a government on the Vietnamese they didn't want.
We were funding the ARVNs up until the day Saigon Fell. The problem is, with the Americans gone, the ARVNs dropped their rifles and just stopped fighting. They didn't run out of ammunition.

The problem was, Ho Chi Mihn was seen as a national hero who fought the French and Japanese. The guys we propped up were all French Quislings who were looting the money as fast as we could send it over there. Which is why they all had big mansions when they fled to this country.


George Custer wasn't a complete knob who got most of his men killed. [MG: FYI, virtually every historian who has published a book on Custer in the last 20 years agrees that Custer was a skilled commander and that his attack would have succeeded if his two chief subordinates had not egregiously disobeyed his orders.]

Um... if his subordinates didn't do their jobs, that's a reflection on him as a commander. He just wasn't used to Indians that fought back, the genocidal mother ******.


Evolution was a hoax. [MG: Macroevolution is a hoax, a silly hoax at that. Microevolution, i.e., the development of new species within a genus via random processes or breeding is not and is accepted by virtually everyone. Literally thousands of scientists and scholars reject macroevolution is abjectly impossible and wildly implausible.]

Thousands of cranks.

We have fossils. We win.

We know life changed over time. This isn't even really in dispute.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Mike doesn't know how to use the quote function, but let's have some fun with this stuff.

[MG: FDR did much more than that, and saying Japan had a valid reason to attack Pearl Harbor is not the same thing as saying they should have done so, as I have explained to you many times.]

No, mike, Japan had no valid reason to attack Pearl Harbor (and pretty much the rest of Asia). They were engaged in a genocidal war in China. FDR rightfully cut off first their supplies of metals, and finally their supply of crude oil. Instead of negotiating in good faith, they launched a sneak attack while pretending to send peace envoys.

Yes, you've again repeated the FDR-Democrat version of Pearl Harbor and the Pacific War. For the more accurate version, see the books by John Toland, George Victor, Michael Gannon, Robert Wakabayashi, Noriko Kawamura, Togo Shigenori, George H. Nash, John Dower, Richard Wilson, Peter Harmsen, etc., etc.

The Rape of Nanking wasn't that bad. ( I think he wants to rename it the "inappropriate touching of Nanking") [MG: You know this is a lie. You accept the discredited Chinese Communist version of the massacre, whereas I do not.]

Except they aren't discredited.

Yeah, they are. You just don't know it or won't admit it. See my thread on the Nanking Massacre, recently bumped with new material.

The Vietnam War was a good idea. [MG: And? Yes, it most certainly was a good idea to try to keep 19 million South Vietnamese from falling under Communist tyranny, which included concentration camps and mass executions after the Communists took over. Most military historians continue to argue that the war was a noble effort that would have succeeded if LBJ had forced our forces to fight under insane restrictions and if the Democrat-controlled Congress had not stabbed South Vietnam in the back.]

Sweet Evil *&^% Jesus, really?

We dropped more bombs on North Vietnam than we did on Germany and Japan combined. We defoliated whole forests that have yet to entirely recover. We expanded the war into Laos and Cambodia. All to impose a government on the Vietnamese they didn't want.
We were funding the ARVNs up until the day Saigon Fell. The problem is, with the Americans gone, the ARVNs dropped their rifles and just stopped fighting. They didn't run out of ammunition.

The problem was, Ho Chi Mihn was seen as a national hero who fought the French and Japanese. The guys we propped up were all French Quislings who were looting the money as fast as we could send it over there. Which is why they all had big mansions when they fled to this country.

Of course you repeat the far-left/Communist version of the Vietnam War. No surprise here.

For more info, see vietnam_war_truth.

George Custer wasn't a complete knob who got most of his men killed. [MG: FYI, virtually every historian who has published a book on Custer in the last 20 years agrees that Custer was a skilled commander and that his attack would have succeeded if his two chief subordinates had not egregiously disobeyed his orders.]

Um... if his subordinates didn't do their jobs, that's a reflection on him as a commander. He just wasn't used to Indians that fought back, the genocidal mother *&^&%R$.

You have no clue what you're talking about, once again. I notice you ignored the point that nearly all scholars who've written about Custer and the Last Stand in the last 20 years have contradicted your view on the subject.

Evolution was a hoax. [MG: Macroevolution is a hoax, a silly hoax at that. Microevolution, i.e., the development of new species within a genus via random processes or breeding is not and is accepted by virtually everyone. Literally thousands of scientists and scholars reject macroevolution is abjectly impossible and wildly implausible.]

Thousands of cranks.

Oh, "cranks"?! Uh-huh. I know you have no clue what you're talking about, much less who those scientists and scholars are and their credentials.

We have fossils. We win.

Says your high-school-education mind. The fossils are one of the biggest problems for, and objections to, macroevolution.

We know life changed over time. This isn't even really in dispute.

Another high school-level argument. No one denies that life changed over time: the issue is the degree of change, and, more important, how life began in the first place, since macroevolution posits that life somehow, someway magically sprang from non-living matter and offers no explanation for where that matter originated.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, you've again repeated the FDR-Democrat version of Pearl Harbor and the Pacific War. For the more accurate version, see the books by John Toland, George Victor, Michael Gannon, Robert Wakabayashi, Noriko Kawamura, Togo Shigenori, George H. Nash, John Dower, Richard Wilson, Peter Harmsen, etc., etc.

I actually did read Toland's book.

But the end of the day. Japan launched an unprovoked sneak attack. The same shit they pulled with China in 1937, the same shit they pulled with Russia in 1904. This time they ran into someone who kicked in their teeth for doing it.

That blowed up real good!!!

Yeah, they are. You just don't know it or won't admit it. See my thread on the Nanking Massacre, recently bumped with new material.

Yeah, I saw that, it was laughable.

Of course you repeat the far-left/Communist version of the Vietnam War. No surprise here.

There's really no other narrative. Only far right cranks try to claim Vietnam wasn't a terrible idea. Our leaders knew that the war was unwinnable from the outset, they did it anyway, because no one wanted to be the president who lost Vietnam.

You have no clue what you're talking about, once again. I notice you ignored the point that nearly all scholars who've written about Custer and the Last Stand in the last 20 years have contradicted your view on the subject.

Yeah, I ignore historical cranks. Custer was an idiot who took on 2500 warriors with only 700 men, and then split his forces.

Custer's last thought "Holy Shit, Look at all those ******* Indians!"

Oh, "cranks"?! Uh-huh. I know you have no clue what you're talking about, much less who those scientists and scholars are and their credentials.

Nope. Usually, when someone embraces some form or Creationism, they are a crank. Please point out one non-religious university that teaches even Old Earth creationism. You won't find it.

Says your high-school-education mind. The fossils are one of the biggest problems for, and objections to, macroevolution.

Only to the uninformed.

The fossil record, while hardly complete, is pretty indicative.
So are genetics (humans and chimps have 98% of the same DNA)
Anatomy
Physiology

Evolution has all this science behind it.

You've got a book with a talking snake written in the Bronze Age

Another high school-level argument. No one denies that life changed over time: the issue is the degree of change, and, more important, how life began in the first place, since macroevolution posits that life somehow, someway magically sprang from non-living matter and offers no explanation for where that matter originated.

Actually, you are confusing evolution with abiogenesis. These are two different issues.

You might want to look up the Miller-Urey expirament, that showed how life-forming proteins could have formed from the elements available in the primordial past.

But here's the bigger problem, you are trying to fill in gaps in our knowledge with magical thinking. Okay, God didn't make Adam and Eve, but we don't have the missing link, so it must be God.

 

[Robert W]

There's really no other narrative. Only far right cranks try to claim Vietnam wasn't a terrible idea. Our leaders knew that the war was unwinnable from the outset, they did it anyway, because no one wanted to be the president who lost Vietnam.

Wasn't a terrible idea? You hard core marxists keep lying about that war. War is never fantastic. The dead will never walk this earth again. What is to like about war? Nixon did not lose the war. Nixon struck a peace deal and our troops flew back to the States. It was 2 years later that the North Vietnamese decided to open the war again and they came in prepared. Even Kennedy worked his ass off to help the South. When he was killed naturally Johnson took over. Johnson sent Marines to Vietnam to do the fighting. Do you respect Marines?