USMB Moderation Announcement.

[Pumpkin Row]

Does posting, say, those pictures in response to a thread which is discussing real estate or daycares NOT count as derailment or something? I think if not, you may need to reconsider your guidelines for derailment rather than make special rules for a subsection.

It gets trickier in a place like the I/P forum. Because talking about Kids in joint Israeli/Pali daycare and their parents getting along wonderfully COULD include comments about the "propaganda in Pali schools, where Israel is not even on their map on the wall". Or comments like "the kids will change their views when they get hit with rubber bullets"..

EITHER of statements essentially ends the purpose of the thread and will lead to an IMMEDIATE leap into personal conflict. The problem is -- under Zone2 rules -- we would probably ALLOW those comments. Because we always err on the minimalist theory side of moderation. But in the I/P forum, the thread blows up before we can even react.

Members of that forum seem upset that we allow those comments to stand. Tho we do act on MORE OBVIOUS thread diversions. Seems THEY want a place where EACH SIDE can speak proudly of the lives they have built in spite of the turmoil and without some dissident continuing the same confrontations that are in every thread in the parent I/P forum...

Think of it this way. This is why USMB has a Lounge and Coffee Shop and Music threads that moderation protects from the noise of the constant battles raging in the other 33 forums. It's a "lounge" for discussing actual life in the Holy Land.

If that's the case, I'd say either be more strict about the derailment, OR apply the same rules to the other locations under Global Discussion, rather than specifying it for this subforum. My problem isn't so much the rule itself as the rules being inconsistent due to this proposed change.

 

[Natural Citizen]

But you never know who you'd be excluding. Or what they could contribute.

No, we would know alright. We would let some lefties in the fort, too. I, for one, actually get along with em better than my conservative peers anyway.

And besides, I said that very same thing back when you guys tried that invite only thread thing, remember?

I'll tell you one thing. THere's about 18 regulars in the I/P forum and only 3 or 4 of them LIVE in Israel/Palestine. And a lot of the rest only know of the conflict and confrontation parts of life there.

USMB members will learn MORE about Israelis and Palestinians from a "more civil" sub forum -- then they ever would from the main forum which is all about protest and American biased views of who actually lives there.

I just click the new posts tab, I don't hardly go in those threads, not really any of my business unless it affects me. There's other areas of the board for that, though. I do enjoy culture, however, and I hear that Israel is ripe with it.

 

[theliq]

The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land.

Why?

Because it's been 50 years since Israel won the 67 war that put the West Bank and Gaza under their administration. And IN SPITE of the conflicts between Israel and Palestinians and fighting within the Pali factions, life goes on.

People need to know that there is culture, art, recreation, tourism and daily life there that is quite good for both sides. Compared to the misery index in the rest of the smoking ruins of the Middle East.

Flaac you are just moving the Goal Posts and your combat???is intense discussion to others!!!!!
That is MERELY YOUR OPINION and your use of the word PALI is disrespectful,much like the use of the word PALISTAN by the neo-Zionists on here...steve but lets see how it goes methinks this Thread has been dumped into the too hard basket,which I think is the real rationale for this change,which is fair enough,it's your party,with respect steve

 

[sparky]

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

The problem is -- under Zone2 rules -- we would probably ALLOW those comments. Because we always err on the minimalist theory side of moderation. But in the I/P forum, the thread blows up before we can even react.

nettiqute is sisyphean effort anywhere one travels on this device.

it appears the usmb feels it's obligated , all fine and well

yet i'm moved to point out that there is little in the way of notification if one ,for example , uses 'ACTIVE THREADS' as to 'zones' that apply

just sayin.........~S~

 

[Olde Europe]

I appreciate your balanced view.I must say that I just checked out a thread by a mod who admits she's pro Palestine and then publically calls out "Team Israel" ONLY for bombing the pro-Pal threads instead of recognising that this cuts both ways. That approach is more the problem than the solution.

Here's the reality:

Only time I will say this. I am pro-Palestinian and I make no secret of that though I a[m] also pro-Israel in that I fully believe in their rights. As a MEMBER I have a right to post my opinions whether you like them or not. There is NO requirenent for me to be neutral or pro Israel what so ever in what I post any more than YOU. Mods can post as members.
[...]
Given that this place is 90% pro-Israel you have a plentiful assortment of nice pro-Israel threads to select from and an abundance of pali threads. Why do you need to deliberately destroy this one?

Have at it.

Coyote patiently explained, several times, the characteristics of the thread - to no avail - and extended to Team Israel the courtesy of explaining the moderating principles, also several times, also to no avail. Instead of following perfectly clear instructions, Team Israel issued a flurry of accusations ranging from bias to hypocrisy, including extended whines about how Team Israel is being called out for Team Israel's obvious attempts at inundating and destroying the thread.

That approach, by Team Israel in this case, clearly denotes the problem. It's also the reason why I, for one, usually keep away from anything even remotely associated with the IP conflict. Most of what I read there I found both unbearable and useless, and the necessity to create a sub-forum with the - in effect - specific instruction "only positive things about..." is a confirmation of that sordid state of affairs. The like should not be necessary, and Palestinian attainments ranging from the arts to agriculture should be cause for celebration in Israel, including Team Israel, for that would point to a neighbor to work with to create something better. That, however, is not what transpired.

So, yes, perhaps such sub-forum is indeed necessary.

 

[sparky]

So, yes, perhaps such sub-forum is indeed necessary

So, to analogize the usmb would like a 'Hitler was misunderstood' sub forum ,where nothing negative is written

The usmb being a private biz has every right to do so

I'd only ask those posters that surf thru ,like myself, are made aware of this

presently, it is not so apparent........the only heads up so far is the CDZ bubble

~S~

 

[theliq]

There's been complaints from both sides about how "non conflict" thread themes and titles are moderated. You have a right to expect that posting GOOD things about either Israeli or Palestinian life should be respected and "protected" from "thread bombers". The way we're reading the complaints is that you want MORE protection of those themes.

The Israel/Palestine forum is NOT supposed to be a forum only about conflict in the Holy Land. It is listed in the Global section of USMB with other countries and regions to allow all manner of threads and titles about those countries and regions. So -- there should be threads that are FREE from diverting the topic to the "ugly" things.

Problem has been that the Zone2 rules that the I/P forum is under allows quite a bit of latitude in what is considered "on topic'. And to solve that problem we need some special rules for these "non-conflict" threads. So we're gonna experiment with a special Sub-Forum to Israel/Palestine with rules that make it clear the threads within it are NOT to be contentious in any way. IDEALLY -- everyone understands what "non-contentious" is and virtually NO moderation will be required. But realize, this sub forum will be under TIGHTER moderation rules than the parent I/P forum. And they WILL be enforced.

ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT is that you create titles and themes that are SPECIFIC enough to allow moderation to "protect" them. Best to be VERY SPECIFIC about what the theme of the thread will be. Because we don't censor or delete post content that actually addresses the tittle/theme of your threads.

Draft of the sticky rules for this forum..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
New Sub Forum name.
Modern Daily Life in the Holy Land

No arguments about history of the region.
No political combat.
No Thread Bombing or conflict discussion
No regional politics.
No pics or vids of civil unrest or conflict.

Suggested topics --

Art, music culture, sports
Business and innovation
Social outreach, education, innovation
Cooperative efforts aimed at reconciliation
Travel, recreation and tourism
Archaeology, holy places
Food, recipes, shopping, real estate
Any other "non-combative" topics that shed light on daily life in the region.

The "theme" of the threads will be "the topic". Specific thread titles and themes are better than General. That way you can zero in on specific aspects of life in the region and leave lots of room for other topics. Topics with very broad themes (such as "Life in Israel" or "Life in Palestine" may be closed). Religious celebrations and practice is a fair topic, but must be kept non-combative.

If your goal is to carry the "conflict" to these threads --- you will become warned and thread or forum banned. The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land. It's fine to be inquisitive and challenge assertions to some extent, but Zone1 rules are in effect. In addition, the specific themes of the thread WILL BE ENFORCED for as long as they are active.

Threads may be moved to the parent Israel/Palestine if there is any large chance of conflict and or confrontation. We hope there will be little need to moderate here. Post here as though it's a Civil Discussion Area..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

Don't discuss OTHER moderation/member issues here. Contact Mod Staff via Private Message conversations. Don't get personal or mention members/mods.

I think it's unhealthy to create sections which are exempt from discussion of conflicting ideas. If what you're talking about is changing the topic from one thing to another entirely different thing, in order to make the thread topic negative, that's already covered under "Derailment".

For a 17 year old Pumpkin,you show incisiveness,insightfulness and maturity well beyond your years.(and lot on here could learn much from you)..With Great Respect To You...steven

 

[Wyatt earp]

There's been complaints from both sides about how "non conflict" thread themes and titles are moderated. You have a right to expect that posting GOOD things about either Israeli or Palestinian life should be respected and "protected" from "thread bombers". The way we're reading the complaints is that you want MORE protection of those themes.

The Israel/Palestine forum is NOT supposed to be a forum only about conflict in the Holy Land. It is listed in the Global section of USMB with other countries and regions to allow all manner of threads and titles about those countries and regions. So -- there should be threads that are FREE from diverting the topic to the "ugly" things.

Problem has been that the Zone2 rules that the I/P forum is under allows quite a bit of latitude in what is considered "on topic'. And to solve that problem we need some special rules for these "non-conflict" threads. So we're gonna experiment with a special Sub-Forum to Israel/Palestine with rules that make it clear the threads within it are NOT to be contentious in any way. IDEALLY -- everyone understands what "non-contentious" is and virtually NO moderation will be required. But realize, this sub forum will be under TIGHTER moderation rules than the parent I/P forum. And they WILL be enforced.

ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT is that you create titles and themes that are SPECIFIC enough to allow moderation to "protect" them. Best to be VERY SPECIFIC about what the theme of the thread will be. Because we don't censor or delete post content that actually addresses the tittle/theme of your threads.

Draft of the sticky rules for this forum..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
New Sub Forum name.
Modern Daily Life in the Holy Land

No arguments about history of the region.
No political combat.
No Thread Bombing or conflict discussion
No regional politics.
No pics or vids of civil unrest or conflict.

Suggested topics --

Art, music culture, sports
Business and innovation
Social outreach, education, innovation
Cooperative efforts aimed at reconciliation
Travel, recreation and tourism
Archaeology, holy places
Food, recipes, shopping, real estate
Any other "non-combative" topics that shed light on daily life in the region.

The "theme" of the threads will be "the topic". Specific thread titles and themes are better than General. That way you can zero in on specific aspects of life in the region and leave lots of room for other topics. Topics with very broad themes (such as "Life in Israel" or "Life in Palestine" may be closed). Religious celebrations and practice is a fair topic, but must be kept non-combative.

If your goal is to carry the "conflict" to these threads --- you will become warned and thread or forum banned. The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land. It's fine to be inquisitive and challenge assertions to some extent, but Zone1 rules are in effect. In addition, the specific themes of the thread WILL BE ENFORCED for as long as they are active.

Threads may be moved to the parent Israel/Palestine if there is any large chance of conflict and or confrontation. We hope there will be little need to moderate here. Post here as though it's a Civil Discussion Area..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

Don't discuss OTHER moderation/member issues here. Contact Mod Staff via Private Message conversations. Don't get personal or mention members/mods.

I think it's unhealthy to create sections which are exempt from discussion of conflicting ideas. If what you're talking about is changing the topic from one thing to another entirely different thing, in order to make the thread topic negative, that's already covered under "Derailment".

For a 17 year old Pumpkin,you show incisiveness,insightfulness and maturity well beyond your years.(and lot on here could learn much from you)..With Great Respect To You...steven

Pumpkin is a genius..


.

 

[theliq]

I appreciate your balanced view.I must say that I just checked out a thread by a mod who admits she's pro Palestine and then publically calls out "Team Israel" ONLY for bombing the pro-Pal threads instead of recognising that this cuts both ways. That approach is more the problem than the solution.

Here's the reality:

Only time I will say this. I am pro-Palestinian and I make no secret of that though I a[m] also pro-Israel in that I fully believe in their rights. As a MEMBER I have a right to post my opinions whether you like them or not. There is NO requirenent for me to be neutral or pro Israel what so ever in what I post any more than YOU. Mods can post as members.
[...]
Given that this place is 90% pro-Israel you have a plentiful assortment of nice pro-Israel threads to select from and an abundance of pali threads. Why do you need to deliberately destroy this one?

Have at it.

Coyote patiently explained, several times, the characteristics of the thread - to no avail - and extended to Team Israel the courtesy of explaining the moderating principles, also several times, also to no avail. Instead of following perfectly clear instructions, Team Israel issued a flurry of accusations ranging from bias to hypocrisy, including extended whines about how Team Israel is being called out for Team Israel's obvious attempts at inundating and destroying the thread.

That approach, by Team Israel in this case, clearly denotes the problem. It's also the reason why I, for one, usually keep away from anything even remotely associated with the IP conflict. Most of what I read there I found both unbearable and useless, and the necessity to create a sub-forum with the - in effect - specific instruction "only positive things about..." is a confirmation of that sordid state of affairs. The like should not be necessary, and Palestinian attainments ranging from the arts to agriculture should be cause for celebration in Israel, including Team Israel, for that would point to a neighbor to work with to create something better. That, however, is not what transpired.

So, yes, perhaps such sub-forum is indeed necessary.

I have been saying that for years and treated like a troublesome idiot...steve ps they call these comments of mine BOMBING but thank you for your honest commentry

 

[MJB12741]

There's been complaints from both sides about how "non conflict" thread themes and titles are moderated. You have a right to expect that posting GOOD things about either Israeli or Palestinian life should be respected and "protected" from "thread bombers". The way we're reading the complaints is that you want MORE protection of those themes.

The Israel/Palestine forum is NOT supposed to be a forum only about conflict in the Holy Land. It is listed in the Global section of USMB with other countries and regions to allow all manner of threads and titles about those countries and regions. So -- there should be threads that are FREE from diverting the topic to the "ugly" things.

Problem has been that the Zone2 rules that the I/P forum is under allows quite a bit of latitude in what is considered "on topic'. And to solve that problem we need some special rules for these "non-conflict" threads. So we're gonna experiment with a special Sub-Forum to Israel/Palestine with rules that make it clear the threads within it are NOT to be contentious in any way. IDEALLY -- everyone understands what "non-contentious" is and virtually NO moderation will be required. But realize, this sub forum will be under TIGHTER moderation rules than the parent I/P forum. And they WILL be enforced.

ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT is that you create titles and themes that are SPECIFIC enough to allow moderation to "protect" them. Best to be VERY SPECIFIC about what the theme of the thread will be. Because we don't censor or delete post content that actually addresses the tittle/theme of your threads.

Draft of the sticky rules for this forum..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
New Sub Forum name.
Modern Daily Life in the Holy Land

No arguments about history of the region.
No political combat.
No Thread Bombing or conflict discussion
No regional politics.
No pics or vids of civil unrest or conflict.

Suggested topics --

Art, music culture, sports
Business and innovation
Social outreach, education, innovation
Cooperative efforts aimed at reconciliation
Travel, recreation and tourism
Archaeology, holy places
Food, recipes, shopping, real estate
Any other "non-combative" topics that shed light on daily life in the region.

The "theme" of the threads will be "the topic". Specific thread titles and themes are better than General. That way you can zero in on specific aspects of life in the region and leave lots of room for other topics. Topics with very broad themes (such as "Life in Israel" or "Life in Palestine" may be closed). Religious celebrations and practice is a fair topic, but must be kept non-combative.

If your goal is to carry the "conflict" to these threads --- you will become warned and thread or forum banned. The goal is to provide a place to celebrate life as it really is in the Holy Land. It's fine to be inquisitive and challenge assertions to some extent, but Zone1 rules are in effect. In addition, the specific themes of the thread WILL BE ENFORCED for as long as they are active.

Threads may be moved to the parent Israel/Palestine if there is any large chance of conflict and or confrontation. We hope there will be little need to moderate here. Post here as though it's a Civil Discussion Area..

// ********************************************************************************************************* //
AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

Don't discuss OTHER moderation/member issues here. Contact Mod Staff via Private Message conversations. Don't get personal or mention members/mods.

Has anyone ever seen ANY political message board where it doesn't become one side on any topic issue vs. the other side, no matter what rules or regulations for participating? And has anyone ever seen anybody change sides over their already preconceived views on any message board? Thus it becomes a meaningless attempt to expect participants to stay on topic regardless of rules & regulations.

Overall I give great credit to all the board monitors, despite they too having preconceived views on any topic. At least those participants who deliberately attempt to derail a legitimate thread are dealt with & eventually done with.

Personally I feel that having to post a link on the opening thread immediately dismisses any possibility of non biased discussions on any issues. Problem is anybody can find biased links to support their already preconceived biased views on either side of any issue. Links prevent people from having legitimate discussions using their own God given brains to have meaningful thought & debates that can influence ones preconceived views & offer possible solutions to complex problems such as Israel/Palestine.

At any rate I am thankful for this board & monitors as it does allow everyone to see WHY there is still no peace between Israeli's & Palestinians.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The best way to moderate any section is to select those who don't really have a dog in the fight to perform the moderation.

When you allow the most extreme zealots to run roughshod over the area of their obsession, you undermine any credibility you might have as to your fairness and balance.

Mod Edit -- See my reply below..

 

[Natural Citizen]

Personally I feel that having to post a link on the opening thread immediately dismisses any possibility of non biased discussions on any issues. Problem is anybody can find biased links to support their already preconceived biased views on either side of any issue.

Yeah, agree. It's the main reasons I don't post threads.

 

[Natural Citizen]

But sounds kinda boring....like an echo chamber.

No, it wouldn't be boring. Huh uh.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: USMB Moderation Announcement.
⁜→ theliq, et al,

I'm at a loss.

I have been saying that for years and treated like a troublesome idiot...steve ps they call these comments of mine BOMBING but thank you for your honest commentry

(QUESTION)

✪ What is "bombing?"
✪ How does it apply to this Discussion Group?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[flacaltenn]

Comments,questions and replies to this concept are welcome. We may revise the rules and format based on your input. But IMPORTANTLY -- for the purposes of THIS thread ------------------------------------

The problem is -- under Zone2 rules -- we would probably ALLOW those comments. Because we always err on the minimalist theory side of moderation. But in the I/P forum, the thread blows up before we can even react.

nettiqute is sisyphean effort anywhere one travels on this device.

it appears the usmb feels it's obligated , all fine and well

yet i'm moved to point out that there is little in the way of notification if one ,for example , uses 'ACTIVE THREADS' as to 'zones' that apply

just sayin.........~S~

We made the Zone Map far less complicated early this year when we collapse FOUR Zones into 3.. Now, everyone knows that Flame Zone, Rubber Room, Badlands is all of Zone3 and that Clean Debate, Intros, Lounge and Announcement is Zone1. Everything else is in the Middle Zone, which is 85% of USMB.

This change is not really a new forum. It's a patio lounge onto the I/P forum to rise above the conflict that appears in the IP forum. Both sides want a place to discuss actual life and work and recreation in the area.

We're trying to honor that. You should probably CHECK what forum you're in everytime you get drawn into it from an alert.. The only time you have to think, is if the forum is one of those 15% areas of USMB..

My HOPE IS -- that the majority of members who shy away from the I/P forum because it's much the same brawling unsolved maze puzzle there everyday -- will LEARN much more about the people living there than they EVER will from America's currently mentally retarded media. And that new people might be attracted to post in the I/P forum.

 

[flacaltenn]

RE: USMB Moderation Announcement.
⁜→ theliq, et al,

I'm at a loss.

I have been saying that for years and treated like a troublesome idiot...steve ps they call these comments of mine BOMBING but thank you for your honest commentry

(QUESTION)

✪ What is "bombing?"
✪ How does it apply to this Discussion Group?

Most Respectfully,
R

I borrowed the meme of "photo bombing" awhile ago to describe what some people do to intentionally derail threads at USMB.

VERB
photo-bombing (present participle)

1. spoil a photograph of (a person or thing) by unexpectedly appearing in the camera's field of view as the picture is taken, typically as a prank or practical joke.
   "we were interrupted and photobombed by at least twenty tourists"
   • spoil (a photograph) by unexpectedly appearing in the camera's field of view as the picture is taken.
     "she actually photobombed a picture of me with Jonah"

So I now call that kind of "drop-in derailment" thread bombing. USMB rules are designed for TOPIC control. Not Content Control.. And we like it that way. Folks that arrive and try to OWN or MAKE different discussions in an existing threads are those members most likely to hear from USMB moderation.

Photo-Bombing looks like this Rocco...

Thread bombing looks much the same but usually not as cute..

 

[Marion Morrison]

Yeah..I think there's a reason I avoid this section like a steaming fresh dog stack.

A) I like one of the main contributors, but probably disagree with "them".

 

[flacaltenn]

Personally I feel that having to post a link on the opening thread immediately dismisses any possibility of non biased discussions on any issues. Problem is anybody can find biased links to support their already preconceived biased views on either side of any issue.

I keep hearing this misconception from a LOT of members. THere is absolutely no requirement to HAVE links of any kind in an OP... It can be 100% personal opinion or alternative analysis. All we ask is that the topic is spelled and well-bounded if you do that.

Has anyone ever seen ANY political message board where it doesn't become one side on any topic issue vs. the other side, no matter what rules or regulations for participating? And has anyone ever seen anybody change sides over their already preconceived views on any message board? Thus it becomes a meaningless attempt to expect participants to stay on topic regardless of rules & regulations.

This concept of there only being two sides is a mirage created by America's Brand Name party system. I'd never assume the objective is conversion to one of these sides, because personally, I don't HAVE a side.

The objective of the USMB rules is to have TOPICAL DISCUSSION. Thus most of USMB moderation does is TOPIC control, NOT CONTENT control. Generally, if you respect the specific topic in every post -- you'll hardly ever hear from us. There are some limits. They don't generally aim at HOW you express yourself. For example, mass advocations of violence against leadership or identifiable groups is not welcome. Neither are attacks on family or accusations of bestiality or pedophilia. BUT -- in general -- the goal is to get UNIQUE THREADS that stay on the topic of the title and OP...

HOPEFULLY, folks come together to vet the highly partisan and weak journalism that we're saddle with today and walk away SMARTER and having deeper understandings of the COMPLEXITY of every skirmish that appears in the news...

 

[Shusha]

..

My HOPE IS -- that the majority of members who shy away from the I/P forum because it's much the same brawling unsolved maze puzzle there everyday -- will LEARN much more about the people living there than they EVER will from America's currently mentally retarded media. And that new people might be attracted to post in the I/P forum.

Its the nature of the conflict, unfortunately, to be unsolved, because it IS unsolved. All conversations basically devolve down to the same essential points over and over again because those points are the very nature of the conflict. I would be interested in having new people attracted to post here though.

 

[flacaltenn]

I appreciate your balanced view.I must say that I just checked out a thread by a mod who admits she's pro Palestine and then publically calls out "Team Israel" ONLY for bombing the pro-Pal threads instead of recognising that this cuts both ways. That approach is more the problem than the solution.

Here's the reality:

Only time I will say this. I am pro-Palestinian and I make no secret of that though I a[m] also pro-Israel in that I fully believe in their rights. As a MEMBER I have a right to post my opinions whether you like them or not. There is NO requirenent for me to be neutral or pro Israel what so ever in what I post any more than YOU. Mods can post as members.
[...]
Given that this place is 90% pro-Israel you have a plentiful assortment of nice pro-Israel threads to select from and an abundance of pali threads. Why do you need to deliberately destroy this one?

Have at it.

Coyote patiently explained, several times, the characteristics of the thread - to no avail - and extended to Team Israel the courtesy of explaining the moderating principles, also several times, also to no avail. Instead of following perfectly clear instructions, Team Israel issued a flurry of accusations ranging from bias to hypocrisy, including extended whines about how Team Israel is being called out for Team Israel's obvious attempts at inundating and destroying the thread.

That approach, by Team Israel in this case, clearly denotes the problem. It's also the reason why I, for one, usually keep away from anything even remotely associated with the IP conflict. Most of what I read there I found both unbearable and useless, and the necessity to create a sub-forum with the - in effect - specific instruction "only positive things about..." is a confirmation of that sordid state of affairs. The like should not be necessary, and Palestinian attainments ranging from the arts to agriculture should be cause for celebration in Israel, including Team Israel, for that would point to a neighbor to work with to create something better. That, however, is not what transpired.

So, yes, perhaps such sub-forum is indeed necessary.

I have been saying that for years and treated like a troublesome idiot...steve ps they call these comments of mine BOMBING but thank you for your honest commentry

It was specifically requested in the Opening Post that there be NO REFERENCES to members/moderators or other related moderation issues. You need to RESPECT that request and pursue other issues/complaints in PM...