Unsealed Trump Search Warrant - Trump had classified Documents

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What we see is an FBI raid in which an anti-Trump judge

No, what we see are lies such as this from blind partisan rightwing hacks and Trump supporters.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Oh. So the Commander in Chief has to get the permission of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats to decide what he is to do with classified documents?

Sounds Constitutional.

Clearly this sort of ignorance and stupidity is typical of the dishonest right.

It’s not about ‘permission’ – de-classifying information involves documentation and record-keeping required by Federal law to ensure the law is being followed – as enacted by Congress, authorized by the Constitution, reflecting the will of the people.

 

[Couchpotato]

And the Top Secret class has SCI s well. Compartmented...which means only a few people can even see it on a need to know basis.

Some of these docs (presumably national security docs) were those

SCI is not a classification. It's a caveat, and not a very restrictive one really in that world. All classifications have a "need to know" limitation, even Confidential. Having a clearance doesnt get you access to "all the infos".

 

[Couchpotato]

Saying "this is declassified" is not the end, it is just the beginning of the process.

I knew a Marine back in Okinawa that got busted down a rank for having a document marked as SECRET in his possession even though the document had been declassified. But since the markings had not been changed he was still in violation of the laws and rules governing classified materials.

For the President it is. There are many things that the system has to do to "catch up" but not the President. His staff would need to inform which ever agency/entity produced or had governance over that information, but that's really it.

Classification markings arent classified. Maybe it violated the rules but not the laws. They could have just crossed out the markings and written UNCLASS (FOUO) on them. If they raided a former President's house because he had some improperly marked documents even boxes full of them....

 

[Couchpotato]

Clearly this sort of ignorance and stupidity is typical of the dishonest right.

It’s not about ‘permission’ – de-classifying information involves documentation and record-keeping required by Federal law to ensure the law is being followed – as enacted by Congress, authorized by the Constitution, reflecting the will of the people.

Without knowing what the documents actually are it's hard to say who "dropped the ball" IF they were declassified. The owning/governing entity would have to do all the record keeping regarding the declassification. So if the WH didnt generate the information/document it would just need to inform the entity that did and they would need to do the documentation if that makes sense.

 

[Lesh]

. It's a caveat, and not a very restrictive one

That's a ridiculous claim

In most cases you need to be "read into" and "read out of" that access including a lie detector on both ends.

It is used for secret intel and nuclear secrets.

 

[Lesh]

His staff would need to inform which ever agency/entity produced or had governance over that information, but that's really it.

But they never did.

They could have just crossed out the markings and written UNCLASS (FOUO) on them.

But that's not what happened.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh. So in your world, the Commander in Chief is beholden to rules that unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats made up.

And where did the unelectable, unaccountable bureaucrats get their authority over the Commander in Chief?

Yes he is
Just like every other American

 

[Harpy Eagle]

For the President it is. There are many things that the system has to do to "catch up" but not the President. His staff would need to inform which ever agency/entity produced or had governance over that information, but that's really it.

And if they never did that, all we have to go on is the word of the POTUS, who has every reason in the world to say that he did it.

If they raided a former President's house because he had some improperly marked documents even boxes full of them....

I agree that if all Trump had were some generic improperly marked documents this was the biggest fuck up by the DOJ in history.

I will also add this, though I know it is pissing in the wind on this forum, if Trump just declassified documents by the boxful without even knowing what all was in the box that is a huge problem, even if it was legal for him to do so. Everyone, even those that support him should have a problem with such an action. As the old saying goes, just because you can does not mean you should.

 

[WinterBorn]

That’s because you don’t like the hypocrisy and double standards being applied here.

Oh? And you think you know my opinion of the Hillary case?

 

[rightwinger]

Wut?
According to one of his staffers, Patel, he followed a policy of declaring everything he took from the premises, declassified, as was his right. If you are saying show the documentation that proves this, no one seems to know if there IS any set protocol for that. Do you support charging the man with spying for a foreign government because he has some formerly TS classified docs in his possession?

If they were coming after him over a violation related to NARA, it would be a first in our history but they are going for the whole smash. We all know what this is about and they will torture the truth until they can convict him of something that's actually a non-event for a Dem in the same situation and on top of that they'll claim he's DQd from running. Well, it isn't going to stop him from running so what is their ultimate goal? I believe they are setting the stage for refusing to accept his legitimacy when he wins in '24.

They're literally like a bunch of spoiled children who trash the place if they don't get their way. The rest of America is about fed the hell up with their nonsense.

It would amaze me if Trumps staffers were that flippant about handling Top Secret information

Wave your hand and declare all documents you are taking home as unclassified. No questions asked, no official reclassification…just take the documents home with you.

In fact, what Trump is doing is declaring that the former Top Secret information in those documents can now be released to our enemies. That is what unclassified means.

As bad a President as I think Trump was, I doubt if even he would sink so low as to release Top Secret information to our enemies just because he is too lazy to secure it.

 

[Lesh]

Sean Duffy, filling in for Laura Ingraham last night, asked former FBI official Chris Swecker for his view on another guest's contention that Trump did not violate any laws by taking classified documents to Mar-A-Lardo.


"Sean, these are heavyweight statutes," he argued.


"The first statute, 793, is basically the espionage statute. It talks about things that he may have done with the documents that would result in injury to this country and… he did these things willfully. That is serious enough that is a ten-year penalty if he’s convicted.

"Now, the third statute, which is the obstruction-related statute, carries a 20-year penalty and it alleges that he somehow impeded an ongoing matter, which could have been the grand jury investigation of what we now know is an espionage case. So this is a much more serious case than just possession of classified documents.

He said it's clear the DOJ is alleging “actions” by Trump, which is much more serious.

Swecker appeared on Fox on the day of the search, and at that time, called it "absolutely wrong." Now that he's seen the warrant, he's walking it back.

 

[JimH52]

Even if this were the case, what does it say about a man who's a boss, and seemingly never has a clue about what's going on around him?
But it's not even an excuse, just because you don't know you're breaking the law, doesn't mean you're not breaking the law.

The repubs are rallying around him....they are making a big mistake. When the rest of the story comes out...it will be embarrassing to them. I always thought Trump was evil.....he is a Monster.

 

[Lisa558]

No, what we see are lies such as this from blind partisan rightwing hacks and Trump supporters.

You would see that. It’s who you are - a left-wing partisan hack who voted for a candidate who destroyed classified info she was hiding on her server, and in violation of a subpoena. But when a Dem does it, A-OK!

 

[JimH52]

It would amaze me if Trumps staffers were that flippant about handling Top Secret information

Wave your hand and declare all documents you are taking home as unclassified. No questions asked, no official reclassification…just take the documents home with you.

In fact, what Trump is doing is declaring that the former Top Secret information in those documents can now be released to our enemies. That is what unclassified means.

As bad a President as I think Trump was, I doubt if even he would sink so low as to release Top Secret information to our enemies just because he is too lazy to secure it.

But he would sell it to them.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Unsealed Search Warrant with receipt of items taken shows Trump had:
Top Secret Classified Documents
Confidential Classified Documents
Miscellaneous Secret Documents

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/08/read-the-unsealed-trump-search-warrant.html

FYI presidents can declassify any classified documents. Before they leave the white house.

 

[Lesh]

You would see that. It’s who you are - a left-wing partisan hack who voted for a candidate who destroyed classified info she was hiding on her server, and in violation of a subpoena. But when a Dem does it, A-OK!

YOU folks are beyond redemption

This involves national defense. There was NO reason for that material to be there. There was no reason to hide it and not return it when first demanded.

Fucking incredible that you still defend this

 

[rightwinger]

We don't actually know what was or wasn't (if anything) declassified. All we know is there were docs marked with a classification. I can write Top Secret TSI on the top of my grocery list, doesn't make it classified. You are and have been jumping to the conclusion you want because you want Trump to be guilty. Maybe he is, maybe he isnt. We will have to wait and see how it shakes out. If he did that while he was President then it was legal for him to do so. You can not like that that's what he did, and it might have been a really stupid thing to do, but it wouldnt be illegal. The President doesn't have to justify his decision to declassify something.

I doubt anyone would mark documents Trump is taking home Top Secret just for yucks and giggles.
Marking a document Top Secret involves more than just hitting it with a rubber stamp saying TOP SECRET

If those documents were somehow declassified, Trump is in the clear. But there needs to be a paper trail of the declassification.

I personally cannot imagine a situation where information that is so sensitive to our nations safety that it was marked TOP SECRET would now be unclassified in a matter of months
Knock down to SECRET? Maybe

But releasable to our enemies?
INCONCEIVABLE

 

[Billo_Really]

Unsealed Search Warrant with receipt of items taken shows Trump had:
Top Secret Classified Documents
Confidential Classified Documents
Miscellaneous Secret Documents

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/08/read-the-unsealed-trump-search-warrant.html

Trump deliberately took classified documents in order to sell our nuclear secrets to the Russians.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yes he is
Just like every other American

So our branches of govt are: Congress, Supreme Court, Bureaucracies.

You all run your nation like that when we split. We won't.