Universal background checks... really?

[Pumpkin Row]

Yes, and like I said, you apparently don't know what rights are or where they come from, otherwise you'd have realized that I already refuted your post and Timmy's.

Not that there was any content in yours.

Oh, you did. Now exactly where do you get those rights? Do you get them from your God? What if I don't worship the same God, does that mean I don't have the same rights? Or how about an athiest, does that mean they have none of those rights? Where do you get those rights, who gives them to you? Let's face it, the Rights you harbor aren't really in the Constitution of the United States the way you keep bringing it up. That means you must be getting them from somewhere else?

Nowhere in my post did I mention God, stop trying to construct a strawman.

Nobody can give rights, that's actually retarded. A person cannot give what they don't have, so claiming they have to come from someone else is circular logic. I specifically stated that they're inherent to the individual, and demonstrable by their agency. The fact that people can act of their own free will shows that they are self-owning agents, and being a self-owning agent demonstrates that they have individual rights.

I never mentioned the Constitution, either. Quote one sentence in any recent post of mine in which I claim that the Constitution grants rights. Just one.

I'll go ahead and save you some time; The Constitution does not grant rights. Just like someone else cannot give something they don't have, a piece of paper cannot do that either. The Constitution isn't even a legitimate document, nobody consented to it, and implicit consent does not exist.

I understand your english comprehension may be sorely lacking, since you apparently don't understand the word "inherent" or "demonstrable". Try reading my previous posts again, and use Google to understand the words I used so that you don't keep making the same mistake, champ.

You are squirming. Where did you get those RIGHTS you keep saying are yours?

They are INHERENT to ourselves demonstrated by our agency, through our self-ownership.

Since you're apparently incredibly dense, I'll give you examples. The fact that you chose to sit down and write that pathetic excuse for a reply that didn't address any of my arguments in any way shows that you're a self-owning agent. You therefor demonstrated that because it required no initiation of force, you have a right to do that. You can demonstrate that you own the device which you used to perform that task, you demonstrated that every keystroke was of your own accord.

As said earlier, in yet another post that flew over your head, each right only ends where another agent's begins, meaning that if someone requires an initiation of force or coercion, it is not a right.

I also explained that rights cannot come from another source since something which is not had cannot be given, so the fact that you keep asking where they came from every time I articulate that they're inherent only shows you either didn't read my post, it keeps flying over your head, or you're intentionally missing the point.

YOu need to answer my question of where do you get your "Rights" from? Then we can procede with the discussion. Otherwise, there is nothing to discuss.

I've answered your question three times, it's not my fault your english comprehension is so low that you can't read my posts despite my attempt to use smaller words so that you can understand.

Maybe if I use larger test:
Rights are Self-Evident, you demonstrate them with your agency. Anything which can be done without force and coercion is a right. They are inherent to ourselves.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Question 1: would you rather live in a country where everyone had the right to be armed, or where only the criminals were armed?

Question 2: do you really believe that if they banned these firearms that it would reduce the number of mass shootings, or cause them to increase?

 

[candycorn]

Still waiting for the solutions from the right wing on how to stop our near weekly massacres.

lol
Shit happens, Only a fool thinks more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul

There is no way to measure how many lives were saved by the waiting period, the current insufficient background checks, etc…. We should at least try something instead of being resigned to shrugging our shoulders at the massacres.

Ah, so you don't know if anything you suggest would stop anything, but you're determined to do "something".

I suspect it will. I do know the current situation is unacceptable unless you crave violence

 

[Lesh]

Universal background checks...really
Especially because the most recent Texas shooting involved a creep who couldn't pass a background check and bought his weapon of mass murder by going around it and buying "privately"

What makes you think a law requiring a background check on private sales would have stopped that shooting?

ALL gun sales should have to go through the background check procedure

This shooting would not have happened had the FBI arrested the shooter upon notification of the failure of his background check - that is, his attempt to illegally purchase a firearm and his commission of perjury on his 4473.

There's no sound support for the argument that we need new laws until the existing laws are fully enforced.

If the asshole who sold him the gun had put the sale through a background check the gun wouldn't have been sold.

No gun no mass shooting dumass

 

[Lesh]

Question 1: would you rather live in a country where everyone had the right to be armed, or where only the criminals were armed?

Question 2: do you really believe that if they banned these firearms that it would reduce the number of mass shootings, or cause them to increase?

We HAD an assault weapons ban for ten years and mass shooting did go down...and rose dramatically since the ban expired

 

[M14 Shooter]

Universal background checks...really
Especially because the most recent Texas shooting involved a creep who couldn't pass a background check and bought his weapon of mass murder by going around it and buying "privately"

What makes you think a law requiring a background check on private sales would have stopped that shooting?

ALL gun sales should have to go through the background check procedure

This shooting would not have happened had the FBI arrested the shooter upon notification of the failure of his background check - that is, his attempt to illegally purchase a firearm and his commission of perjury on his 4473.

There's no sound support for the argument that we need new laws until the existing laws are fully enforced.

If the asshole who sold him the gun had put the sale through a background check the gun wouldn't have been sold.

-- You think that would happen --


There's no sound support for the argument that we need new laws until the existing laws are fully enforced

 

[M14 Shooter]

We HAD an assault weapons ban for ten years and mass shooting did go down...and rose dramatically since the ban expired

Look at you, mindlessly repeating a post hoc fallacy, with the hope that someone will fall for it, as you did...

Soundly demonstrate how the 1994 AWB had any effect on the availability of 'assault weapons'.
While doing, so, account for the following:

 

[toomuchtime_]

Your Queen is your 'god' ain't she Daryl? All rights come from the Crown. Right?

I didn't ask where I get MY rights from. I asked where YOU get YOUR rights from. Now answer that question.

Well I’m asking YOU. Our Founders referred to a Creator. The Crown is your ‘Creator.’ Morality must then be whatever the ‘chosen’ decide for you.

The question of where I get my rights from is not in question here. Not once have I tried to claim that it's my Right to do anything in this discussion. Meanwhile, you have stated that this whole thing was in violation of your rights. Where do you get those rights from? Stop squirming and answer that question.

The real question is where does the government get the right to restrict gun ownership from. The answer is from the people, and the American people are not about to give up their guns just because Democrats need a political issue for the next election.

If you make the legal purchase of guns so difficult that criminal and crazies can't purchase them legally, you will also create a strong black market for the illegal purchase of guns, just as laws that restricted alcohol and drugs created strong criminal subcultures for the illegal sales of these items, and the only way to stop the illegal purchase of guns is to have a strong police presence on the streets where such purchases are most likely to happen, that is in poor minority neighborhoods, and the Democrats are opposed to that, so the whole issue of more restrictive gun laws is just a way for Democrats to avoid doing anything substantial about violent crime. Not all neighborhoods in Chicago have the same per capita murder rate but all enjoy the same availability of guns, so obviously the availability of guns is not the deciding factor in violent crime.

No, the real question is still Who or where do you get your claimed Rights from that you keep hammering the rest of us with?

lol You're the who is hammering, not me, but since the government gets its authority from, then my rights also come from me. That's the way it works in a democracy.

 

[Nosmo King]

What's the solution?

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.
This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters are rarely caught alive. Would you take their lifeless corpse and bury I in a prison yard?

As I pointed out in my thread in the CDZ on my plan....you have two problems...actual criminals, and mass public shooters...

Mass public shootings in 2018..... 12. Number killed, 93.

Actual criminals using illegal guns to murder mostly other criminals...2017..... 10,982 gun murders..

Do you see the difference and which problem is actually bigger?

You stop mass shooters differently than regular criminals.....

1) end gun free zones...their primary targets

2) stop romanticing them and encouraging copycats by refusing to put out details in the press...refer to all future mass shooters as losers in any police statements.

3) improve family awareness of dangerously mentally ill people and help them get the help they need...

That is how you stop mass shooters...

Dayton Ohio

Nine killed, over 20 wounded in less than 45 seconds. Could the weapon be factored in when considering these facts?

No.....the choice of location dictates the number killed and the police response time....

Russia, the polytechnic shooter...... a pump action, tube fed, 5 shot shotgun..... 20 killed and 40 injured....

Virginia Tech.... 2 pistols, 32 killed.

Luby's Cafe....24 killed, 2 pistols....

In the worst mass shootings, the killer attacked a gun free zone and had more than enough time before people with guns arrived to make him stop......

At the Tree of Life synagogue shooting four of the wounded were a med policemen. In El Paso, Texas law provides open carry. Wal*Mart had, at that time, no restriction on Texas law. Yet no one returned fire. Having greater access to guns means everyone has greater access. If universal background checks stem just one person from getting a gun when they most wanted to do harm, what harm befalls gun buyers with a legitimate need for a weapon?

 

[Nosmo King]

What's the solution?

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.
This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters are rarely caught alive. Would you take their lifeless corpse and bury I in a prison yard?

As I pointed out in my thread in the CDZ on my plan....you have two problems...actual criminals, and mass public shooters...

Mass public shootings in 2018..... 12. Number killed, 93.

Actual criminals using illegal guns to murder mostly other criminals...2017..... 10,982 gun murders..

Do you see the difference and which problem is actually bigger?

You stop mass shooters differently than regular criminals.....

1) end gun free zones...their primary targets

2) stop romanticing them and encouraging copycats by refusing to put out details in the press...refer to all future mass shooters as losers in any police statements.

3) improve family awareness of dangerously mentally ill people and help them get the help they need...

That is how you stop mass shooters...

Dayton Ohio

Nine killed, over 20 wounded in less than 45 seconds. Could the weapon be factored in when considering these facts?

Tokyo, Japan.... 33 killed with gasoline.....could that weapon be factored in considering these facts?

A spate of mass killings with gasoline in Japan we"re not aware of?

 

[Lesh]

Question 1: would you rather live in a country where everyone had the right to be armed, or where only the criminals were armed?

Question 2: do you really believe that if they banned these firearms that it would reduce the number of mass shootings, or cause them to increase?

We HAD an assault weapons ban for ten years and mass shooting did go down...and rose dramatically since the ban expired

This bears repeating

We HAD an assault weapons ban for ten years and mass shooting did go down...and rose dramatically since the ban expired

 

[Nosmo King]

What's the solution?

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.
This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters are rarely caught alive. Would you take their lifeless corpse and bury I in a prison yard?

As I pointed out in my thread in the CDZ on my plan....you have two problems...actual criminals, and mass public shooters...

Mass public shootings in 2018..... 12. Number killed, 93.

Actual criminals using illegal guns to murder mostly other criminals...2017..... 10,982 gun murders..

Do you see the difference and which problem is actually bigger?

You stop mass shooters differently than regular criminals.....

1) end gun free zones...their primary targets

2) stop romanticing them and encouraging copycats by refusing to put out details in the press...refer to all future mass shooters as losers in any police statements.

3) improve family awareness of dangerously mentally ill people and help them get the help they need...

That is how you stop mass shooters...

Dayton Ohio

Nine killed, over 20 wounded in less than 45 seconds. Could the weapon be factored in when considering these facts?

Fire is deadlier than guns......more killed in this fire than shot at Vegas.....and it didn't take a 1,000 dollar rifle to do it...


6 Infamous Arsonists and How They Got Caught

Julio Gonzalez
Number of Fires: One
People Killed: 87

Story:

After immigrating to New York City during the Mariel Boatlift in 1980,

26 killed in arson attack in Mexico...

But people aren't afraid their kids will burn alive in the cafeteria. They are pondering Kevlar backpacks. My niece came to my brother last weekend. She's going into first grade at a new school. She had a year of kindergarten at a different school. She said she was afraid to go to the new school because she doesn't know where to hide.

And you rationalize this with tales of murder by arson. Shameless.

 

[Nosmo King]

There is no way to measure how many lives were saved by the waiting period, the current insufficient background checks, etc…. We should at least try something instead of being resigned to shrugging our shoulders at the massacres.

Ah, so you don't know if anything you suggest would stop anything, but you're determined to do "something".

What's the solution?

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.
This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters are rarely caught alive. Would you take their lifeless corpse and bury I in a prison yard?

In other words, most mass shooters pay their debt to society for their crime.

And his victims are just the price of living in a society broken by politics and obsessed with reading the constitution as a suicide pact.

 

[2aguy]

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.
This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters are rarely caught alive. Would you take their lifeless corpse and bury I in a prison yard?

As I pointed out in my thread in the CDZ on my plan....you have two problems...actual criminals, and mass public shooters...

Mass public shootings in 2018..... 12. Number killed, 93.

Actual criminals using illegal guns to murder mostly other criminals...2017..... 10,982 gun murders..

Do you see the difference and which problem is actually bigger?

You stop mass shooters differently than regular criminals.....

1) end gun free zones...their primary targets

2) stop romanticing them and encouraging copycats by refusing to put out details in the press...refer to all future mass shooters as losers in any police statements.

3) improve family awareness of dangerously mentally ill people and help them get the help they need...

That is how you stop mass shooters...

Dayton Ohio

Nine killed, over 20 wounded in less than 45 seconds. Could the weapon be factored in when considering these facts?

No.....the choice of location dictates the number killed and the police response time....

Russia, the polytechnic shooter...... a pump action, tube fed, 5 shot shotgun..... 20 killed and 40 injured....

Virginia Tech.... 2 pistols, 32 killed.

Luby's Cafe....24 killed, 2 pistols....

In the worst mass shootings, the killer attacked a gun free zone and had more than enough time before people with guns arrived to make him stop......

At the Tree of Life synagogue shooting four of the wounded were a med policemen. In El Paso, Texas law provides open carry. Wal*Mart had, at that time, no restriction on Texas law. Yet no one returned fire. Having greater access to guns means everyone has greater access. If universal background checks stem just one person from getting a gun when they most wanted to do harm, what harm befalls gun buyers with a legitimate need for a weapon?

universal background checks stem just one person from getting a gun


Universal Background checks don't do this, since the federal background checks we already have don't do this...

And Right back at you...since 1.1 million Americans use their legal guns every year to save lives and stop violent rapes, robberies and murders...what harm befalls people? Lives saved, more lives than are lost to criminals the democrats let out of jail....do you want women to be raped?

There was one guy in the Walmart and he used his gun to get his children to safety...had he run into the shooter, he could have shot back...no one else was able to say that....

And again...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

As well as the police interview part

Moron, the Pulse Night Club shooter went through 3 interviews with trained FBI interrogators who thought he might be a muslim terrorist.....they also did a complete, FBI background check and did an under cover approach with an agent....he also passed an extensive background check for his job and a background check for each gun he purchased....

You don't understand the issue.

Sounds like you are saying that banning the AR 15 is the only solution!

Which only means he'll use a different gun, or he'll get one through the black market. You people still don't grasp that in the end, no amount of laws will prevent anyone from doing anything. Otherwise, prohibition would have worked, and speakeasy would never have existed. And the drug war would have worked as well, and Heroin wouldn't be an issue today.

You dumb bans and crap, only makes law abiding citizens into criminals, with the unicorn and fairy ideology that your laws will magically make criminals into law abiding citizens.

It's stupid. It's evil. It never works. And you need to stop pushing it.

What the end of Prohibition brought was the laws and restrictions that most people wanted before the Prohibition that they were denied. Had the "Booze Merchants" been reasonable, the "Mob" wouldn't have been nearly as blood thirsty. After the Prohibition was finished, there were more regulations on drinking and manufacturing of booze than before Prohibition. If that is what you want on guns, keep going the way you are going.

But none of those laws and restrictions have done anything. You think we didn't have beer pong parties in high school? You think we didn't have dozens of fake IDs to buy beer before the school dance?

Over and over, none of those laws and restrictions did anything. Not one single thing.

So I get it, you can pass all the laws you want, but you need to grasp you are not helping anything.

Here in Colorado, there were over 600,000 background checks done in 2016. Out of that many, there were over 120 that failed. And 27 felons were sent back to prison for trying to buy guns in violation of their parole. That's 27 violent felons off the streets. How many lives were saved by that one?

In California, the Marine that went on the shooting spree with the handgun with extra mags but limited ammo used the only weapon he could get on short notice. He didn't do a lot of planning. But his Skill set was so high, the not only bagged 12 people (as in killed) wounded a bunch more and 2 of those dead were armed cops that were behind barriers. There were over 60 possible bodies he had to choose from. But the handgun was just much harder to use than the weapon his skill set was highest on. Imagine if he had brought an AR with 4 30 round Mags. He would have wiped out most of the Swat Teams sent in. That AR Ban saved lives that day. The poor cops walked into a real live combat situation and went against a combat hardened Pro. Not something they trained for and probably aren't paid enough.

Universal Background checks do work. As does a solid regulation on the AR. While it doesn't stop the mass shootings, it keeps the body count down. If that is all that is accomplished, then it DOES save lives.

BTW, Walmarts announcement is changing some of the hardened Gun Activists tune around here. This is a sold red area. What brought it on? The nutcase in Missouri that walzed into the Walmart right after the shooting in the Texas Walmart. The nutcase came in wearing an AR with extra ammo mags on an ammo belt. An Off Duty Firefighter CCW drew down on him right there in Walmart. It's a little hard to tell who the mass murders are and the nutcases that are showing off their "Rights". And who gets in trouble? The Firefighter. Now, Walmart will not allow ANY customer to carry guns inside their stores. You buy a gun, it's hand carried by the Management to your car. You fruitcakes won't even police your own. The Police Lt. that responded to the Missouri Nutcase said, "He's lucky to be alive". Does he lose his AR? No, the Firefighter loses his CCW License though.

We have a nice little law around here that says you can't have any firearms within 1000 feet of any schools. One Teen wearing a Raincoat was walking towards a Middle School. One of the Neighbors noted it was a sunny day and called the cops. He was surrounded by 6 really nervous adrenile pumping cops with drawn weapons. What they found under the Coat was his Daddy's AR and 4 30 round mags. He stated he was going for the new record. That made page 5 in very small print and was buried. He was 17. It never went to criminal court. He's in the state mental hospital right now and will be until at least to the age of 21 or longer. Another law that saved lives.

Just how many more of these do you need. You keep going and there will be even more laws passed. The harder you push, the more stringent the laws will be. Since you won't police your own kind, someone has to. And if you cause excessive laws to be passed, that affects me and that really pisses off me and others like me.

 

[2aguy]

Still waiting for the solutions from the right wing on how to stop our near weekly massacres.

lol
Shit happens, Only a fool thinks more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul

There is no way to measure how many lives were saved by the waiting period, the current insufficient background checks, etc…. We should at least try something instead of being resigned to shrugging our shoulders at the massacres.

Ah, so you don't know if anything you suggest would stop anything, but you're determined to do "something".

I suspect it will. I do know the current situation is unacceptable unless you crave violence

Then tell the democrats to stop letting repeat gun offenders, the ones doing 99% of the killing, out of jail and out of prison...

Do you accept the fact that democrats keep letting repeat gun offenders out of jail on bond and out of prison with short sentences?

 

[2aguy]

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.
This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters are rarely caught alive. Would you take their lifeless corpse and bury I in a prison yard?

As I pointed out in my thread in the CDZ on my plan....you have two problems...actual criminals, and mass public shooters...

Mass public shootings in 2018..... 12. Number killed, 93.

Actual criminals using illegal guns to murder mostly other criminals...2017..... 10,982 gun murders..

Do you see the difference and which problem is actually bigger?

You stop mass shooters differently than regular criminals.....

1) end gun free zones...their primary targets

2) stop romanticing them and encouraging copycats by refusing to put out details in the press...refer to all future mass shooters as losers in any police statements.

3) improve family awareness of dangerously mentally ill people and help them get the help they need...

That is how you stop mass shooters...

Dayton Ohio

Nine killed, over 20 wounded in less than 45 seconds. Could the weapon be factored in when considering these facts?

Tokyo, Japan.... 33 killed with gasoline.....could that weapon be factored in considering these facts?

A spate of mass killings with gasoline in Japan we"re not aware of?

Kyoto, Japan, a cartoonist killed 33 with gasoline....and the Japanese people are more conformist and law abiding than democrats here in the U.S.....so they have very little crime of any kind...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Oh, you did. Now exactly where do you get those rights? Do you get them from your God? What if I don't worship the same God, does that mean I don't have the same rights? Or how about an athiest, does that mean they have none of those rights? Where do you get those rights, who gives them to you? Let's face it, the Rights you harbor aren't really in the Constitution of the United States the way you keep bringing it up. That means you must be getting them from somewhere else?

Your Queen is your 'god' ain't she Daryl? All rights come from the Crown. Right?

I didn't ask where I get MY rights from. I asked where YOU get YOUR rights from. Now answer that question.

Well I’m asking YOU. Our Founders referred to a Creator. The Crown is your ‘Creator.’ Morality must then be whatever the ‘chosen’ decide for you.

The question of where I get my rights from is not in question here. Not once have I tried to claim that it's my Right to do anything in this discussion. Meanwhile, you have stated that this whole thing was in violation of your rights. Where do you get those rights from? Stop squirming and answer that question.

I TOLD you Daryl. Wake up.

No you didn't. You just answered the question with a question. Now where do you get YOUR rights. Is it God Given?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Your Queen is your 'god' ain't she Daryl? All rights come from the Crown. Right?

I didn't ask where I get MY rights from. I asked where YOU get YOUR rights from. Now answer that question.

Well I’m asking YOU. Our Founders referred to a Creator. The Crown is your ‘Creator.’ Morality must then be whatever the ‘chosen’ decide for you.

The question of where I get my rights from is not in question here. Not once have I tried to claim that it's my Right to do anything in this discussion. Meanwhile, you have stated that this whole thing was in violation of your rights. Where do you get those rights from? Stop squirming and answer that question.

I TOLD you Daryl. Wake up.

Daryl needs to get back to his assisted living home...

Time to put you back in the bad gene pool. Have a nice life.

 

[2aguy]

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.
This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters are rarely caught alive. Would you take their lifeless corpse and bury I in a prison yard?

As I pointed out in my thread in the CDZ on my plan....you have two problems...actual criminals, and mass public shooters...

Mass public shootings in 2018..... 12. Number killed, 93.

Actual criminals using illegal guns to murder mostly other criminals...2017..... 10,982 gun murders..

Do you see the difference and which problem is actually bigger?

You stop mass shooters differently than regular criminals.....

1) end gun free zones...their primary targets

2) stop romanticing them and encouraging copycats by refusing to put out details in the press...refer to all future mass shooters as losers in any police statements.

3) improve family awareness of dangerously mentally ill people and help them get the help they need...

That is how you stop mass shooters...

Dayton Ohio

Nine killed, over 20 wounded in less than 45 seconds. Could the weapon be factored in when considering these facts?

Fire is deadlier than guns......more killed in this fire than shot at Vegas.....and it didn't take a 1,000 dollar rifle to do it...


6 Infamous Arsonists and How They Got Caught

Julio Gonzalez
Number of Fires: One
People Killed: 87

Story:

After immigrating to New York City during the Mariel Boatlift in 1980,

26 killed in arson attack in Mexico...

But people aren't afraid their kids will burn alive in the cafeteria. They are pondering Kevlar backpacks. My niece came to my brother last weekend. She's going into first grade at a new school. She had a year of kindergarten at a different school. She said she was afraid to go to the new school because she doesn't know where to hide.

And you rationalize this with tales of murder by arson. Shameless.

Moron....schools are safer now than they were in the 1990s...... school shootings are the rarest of rare crimes, yet you use them to push your agenda, even though the actual gun killers are democrats in democrat controlled voting districts....