United States Imperialism

[surada]

Well, not quite at all how you are presenting it.

The US had sanctions in place against Libya going all the way back to 1981. But as you stated earlier, in 2006 both nations were trying to establish ties again so many of the sanctions were lifted. And Vice President Cheney was not in any way "hired" to lift those sanctions, as he was Vice President at the time. That was all part of the effort of President Bush to try and rebuild relations with Libya and other Muslim nations.

But it did not last long, as by 2011 they had become strained yet again, and the Libyan Civil War had the US sever those ties once again.

But it was not just the US, the UN had multiple sanctions against Libya as well. The same goes for Iraq, as US sanctions against that nation came either just before or just after UN sanctions.

Not sure what you mean about "the Stans", as that could cover any of the seven nations that end with those letters. And as many as a dozen others are called that in many languages (especially Turkish), which add "stan" to the end of the names of other nations. Like "Greece", which is called "Yunanistan" in Turkish, Azerbaijani, and Tartar. It literally is just a Turkish and Persian language suffix that means "a Place". And Yunani is the ancient Persian name for Greece. Not unlike say "Germany" and "Deutschland".

Before when Cheney was hired by Halliburton to lobby for lifting sanctions. From 1995_2000. He wasn't VP then. By the Stans I mean those countries that I can't spell that produce gas... like Khazikistan

 

[Mushroom]

Gaddafi was young, had no education and was basically a wild card.

This I would argue against. He was actually fairly well educated.

His father struggled to put him through private schools, and he was attending the University of Libya when he dropped out to join the military. And once in he quickly rose through the ranks, and was sent to the Benghazi Military University Academy where he graduated with the equivalent of a BA degree. He was assigned to be a communications officer in their Signal Corps, and was even sent for 9 months to the British Army Air Corps language school outside Dorset, England. Then he remained an additional 9 months as he attended a higher level Communications Officer program in Dorset. And "stupid and uneducated" people do not attend 18 months of a higher level professional training program by the British military.

Brutal and thuggish, I would agree. But I have never heard it said he was either stupid or uneducated. He came from a family of Bedouin goat herds, and his father insisted that as the only son of 5 children that he get an education and advance himself and the family name. And it was during that time that he became fascinated with Nasser and his call for Arab Unity. Specifically his 1955 book "Philosophy of the Revolution". In fact, the coup he later staged against the Kingdom of Libya was largely inspired by and following guidelines set forth in Nasser's book.

 

[surada]

This I would argue against. He was actually fairly well educated.

His father struggled to put him through private schools, and he was attending the University of Libya when he dropped out to join the military. And once in he quickly rose through the ranks, and was sent to the Benghazi Military University Academy where he graduated with the equivalent of a BA degree. He was assigned to be a communications officer in their Signal Corps, and was even sent for 9 months to the British Army Air Corps language school outside Dorset, England. Then he remained an additional 9 months as he attended a higher level Communications Officer program in Dorset. And "stupid and uneducated" people do not attend 18 months of a higher level professional training program by the British military.

Brutal and thuggish, I would agree. But I have never heard it said he was either stupid or uneducated. He came from a family of Bedouin goat herds, and his father insisted that as the only son of 5 children that he get an education and advance himself and the family name. And it was during that time that he became fascinated with Nasser and his call for Arab Unity. Specifically his 1955 book "Philosophy of the Revolution". In fact, the coup he later staged against the Kingdom of Libya was largely inspired by and following guidelines set forth in Nasser's book.

This I would argue against. He was actually fairly well educated.

His father struggled to put him through private schools, and he was attending the University of Libya when he dropped out to join the military. And once in he quickly rose through the ranks, and was sent to the Benghazi Military University Academy where he graduated with the equivalent of a BA degree. He was assigned to be a communications officer in their Signal Corps, and was even sent for 9 months to the British Army Air Corps language school outside Dorset, England. Then he remained an additional 9 months as he attended a higher level Communications Officer program in Dorset. And "stupid and uneducated" people do not attend 18 months of a higher level professional training program by the British military.

Brutal and thuggish, I would agree. But I have never heard it said he was either stupid or uneducated. He came from a family of Bedouin goat herds, and his father insisted that as the only son of 5 children that he get an education and advance himself and the family name. And it was during that time that he became fascinated with Nasser and his call for Arab Unity. Specifically his 1955 book "Philosophy of the Revolution". In fact, the coup he later staged against the Kingdom of Libya was largely inspired by and following guidelines set forth in Nasser's book.

Gaddafi 's education was a later invention. He was a barefoot Bedouin boy.

 

[Mushroom]

Hey, Mushroom , do you speak other languages, or perhaps have family ties or yourself were born outside the U.S.? No need to answer if you don’t want, but you seem to have a lot of knowledge about Middle East history, which I respect.

Well, I used to speak a decent amount of both Japanese and Spanish. But as I have not used either language in years I have pretty much forgotten most of it. But as a hobby I still occasionally do subtitle translations of Japanese movies. But the closest tie like you are thinking of would be my ex-wife, who was born and raised in Argentina.

But for the history, blame that on both my love of history, and being career military. I am one of those that firmly believes in "Knowing your enemy", and when I first put on the uniform Libya was unquestionably the enemy. I did spend a year in the Middle East however, which also let me learn a lot about that area and culture. But to be accurate, Libya is not in the "Middle East".

Heck, I still am a regular reader of both Al-Jazeera and PressTV. Even though I am now retired from the military, I still believe it is important to try and understand what potential adversaries are thinking and saying. Heck, back in the day I even used to listen to Radio Moscow. And I first learned of the invasion of Kuwait on "Radio Exterior de España" (the equivalent from Spain of the BBC). They were broadcasting the news hours before CNN covered it. And when Russia invaded Ukraine, I spent days glued to the BBC International station. It had far better coverage than any of the US news sources.

 

[Mushroom]

He was a barefoot Bedouin boy.

Was. And President Lincoln was the son of an illiterate transient farmer. But there is no question of his education, he was later remembered by many of his British instructors who were teachers at the Royal Academy, as well as during his time at Dorset.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Well, I used to speak a decent amount of both Japanese and Spanish. But as I have not used either language in years I have pretty much forgotten most of it. But as a hobby I still occasionally do subtitle translations of Japanese movies. But the closest tie like you are thinking of would be my ex-wife, who was born and raised in Argentina.

But for the history, blame that on both my love of history, and being career military. I am one of those that firmly believes in "Knowing your enemy", and when I first put on the uniform Libya was unquestionably the enemy. I did spend a year in the Middle East however, which also let me learn a lot about that area and culture. But to be accurate, Libya is not in the "Middle East".

Heck, I still am a regular reader of both Al-Jazeera and PressTV. Even though I am now retired from the military, I still believe it is important to try and understand what potential adversaries are thinking and saying. Heck, back in the day I even used to listen to Radio Moscow. And I first learned of the invasion of Kuwait on "Radio Exterior de España" (the equivalent from Spain of the BBC). They were broadcasting the news hours before CNN covered it. And when Russia invaded Ukraine, I spent days glued to the BBC International station. It had far better coverage than any of the US news sources.

Thanks. Interesting.

I had never even heard of English language “PressTV” from iran before. I am saving it to explore when I have time. Good nIght to you and thanks again.

 

[Mushroom]

I had never even heard of English language “PressTV” from iran before.

It can be found here.

PressTV

Press TV is an Iranian news and documentary network that broadcasts in the English and French-language. It is affiliated with Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, the only organisation legally able to transmit radio and TV broadcasts in Iran.

www.presstv.ir

 

[surada]

Was. And President Lincoln was the son of an illiterate transient farmer. But there is no question of his education, he was later remembered by many of his British instructors who were teachers at the Royal Academy, as well as during his time at Dorset.

Are you sure? At one point he claimed to have gone to Sandhurst.

 

[Mushroom]

At one point he claimed to have gone to Sandhurst.

He never claimed that, but others had made the claim that he had.

That is just something lazy people said who could not be bothered to do actual research. The full name is the "Royal Military Academy Sandhurst", which is commonly called either "Sandhurst", or the "Royal Military Academy".

He attended the "Royal Military Academy Benghazi". Also commonly called the "Royal Military Academy". And Sandhurst is impossible, as that is a 2+ year course and he was only in England for 18 months. Saying he did that would be like trying to claim somebody went to Annapolis or West Point for 18 months. Most biographies simply stated he attended the "Royal Military Academy", and additional schools in England.

And Sandhurst is only really open to highly placed individuals in closely aligned nations with the UK. And even during the time of the Kingdom of Libya, that nation and the UK were not that close. And Gaddafi was nowhere near influential enough to get sent there. To give an idea of those who are sent from other countries, one was Sheikh Fahad Al-Ahmed Al-Jaber Al-Sabah of Kuwait. He was a younger son of the ruler of Kuwait, and by the time he reached adulthood he had decided to join the military (A common career for younger sons in any monarchy).

Kuwait had long been a key UK ally, so his going to Sandhurst and eventually becoming the commander of the Kuwait military was not unexpected. When Iraq invaded, he and his forces held the palace for as long as they could while his brother and family escaped. He was shot and killed in the battle, and afterwards his body dragged in front of the palace where an Iraqi tank ran over it repeatedly until it was basically destroyed.

 

[surada]

He never claimed that, but others had made the claim that he had.

That is just something lazy people said who could not be bothered to do actual research. The full name is the "Royal Military Academy Sandhurst", which is commonly called either "Sandhurst", or the "Royal Military Academy".

He attended the "Royal Military Academy Benghazi". Also commonly called the "Royal Military Academy". And Sandhurst is impossible, as that is a 2+ year course and he was only in England for 18 months. Saying he did that would be like trying to claim somebody went to Annapolis or West Point for 18 months. Most biographies simply stated he attended the "Royal Military Academy", and additional schools in England.

And Sandhurst is only really open to highly placed individuals in closely aligned nations with the UK. And even during the time of the Kingdom of Libya, that nation and the UK were not that close. And Gaddafi was nowhere near influential enough to get sent there. To give an idea of those who are sent from other countries, one was Sheikh Fahad Al-Ahmed Al-Jaber Al-Sabah of Kuwait. He was a younger son of the ruler of Kuwait, and by the time he reached adulthood he had decided to join the military (A common career for younger sons in any monarchy).

Kuwait had long been a key UK ally, so his going to Sandhurst and eventually becoming the commander of the Kuwait military was not unexpected. When Iraq invaded, he and his forces held the palace for as long as they could while his brother and family escaped. He was shot and killed in the battle, and afterwards his body dragged in front of the palace where an Iraqi tank ran over it repeatedly until it was basically destroyed.

Lots of conflicting information over the years about Gaddafi's education.

My dad was an invited observer at the first Kuwaiti parliament years ago. . We lived there awhile.
Lots of us went to private schools with the sons and daughters of these guys. Some of them were very sharp.

Gaddafi's social gaffes like drinking rose water from the finger bowl sent him into rages with threats of assassination. That is not an indication of education.

 

[surada]

Colonel Gaddafi: Muammar Abuminyar Alqaddafi (معمر القذافي)

www.temehu.com

 

[surada]

You believe Lol!! it doesn't matter what you believe its what actually happened that matters, Obama and his European puppets destroyed a Country and supported Islamist crazies, like those smashing up the British military cemetery, face reality you will feel better for it.

7 million Syrians fled Syria because Mehr Assad dropped 40,000 barrel bombs on them. Syria has had secular strife and assassinations since 1950.

 

[Deadstick]

7 million Syrians fled Syria because Mehr Assad dropped 40,000 barrel bombs on them. Syria has had secular strife and assassinations since 1950.

No they didn't, many fled because the collective west financed and supported an army of Islamist madmen who get a kick out of hacking peoples heads off, the US have used these maniac guns for hire from Bosnia to Syria and beyond, you people really are slow to catch on.

 

[irosie91]

7 million Syrians fled Syria because Mehr Assad dropped 40,000 barrel bombs on them. Syria has had secular strife and assassinations since 1950.

what is "MEHR ASSAD"? In my understanding of the pathetically limited understanding of
arabic which is mine "MEHR" is a financial obligation of a groom to his bride.

 

[Mushroom]

No they didn't, many fled because the collective west financed and supported an army of Islamist madmen who get a kick out of hacking peoples heads off

Actually, if you knew anything about Syria at all, you would know it was part of the "Arab Spring" movement and was a domestic uprising against the Ba'athist government.

AQ did have a very minor presence, but all sides attacked them and none wanted their support. They were just opportunists that tried to cause division for their own sake, and pretty much had their butts handed to them by both the Assad government and the SDF.

Once again you are simply proving that you actually know nothing of what is going on, and just ranting almost randomly things that are completely removed from reality.

The "Collective West" did not finance or support Al-Qaeda in any way, they support the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (SDF), and they are not "Islamist madmen". In fact, one of the biggest groups in that coalition are the Kurds. And they are still actively fighting the "Islamist madmen" as you put it.

 

[Deadstick]

Actually, if you knew anything about Syria at all, you would know it was part of the "Arab Spring" movement and was a domestic uprising against the Ba'athist government.

AQ did have a very minor presence, but all sides attacked them and none wanted their support. They were just opportunists that tried to cause division for their own sake, and pretty much had their butts handed to them by both the Assad government and the SDF.

Once again you are simply proving that you actually know nothing of what is going on, and just ranting almost randomly things that are completely removed from reality.

The "Collective West" did not finance or support Al-Qaeda in any way, they support the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (SDF), and they are not "Islamist madmen". In fact, one of the biggest groups in that coalition are the Kurds. And they are still actively fighting the "Islamist madmen" as you put it.

Wrong! the Kurds are just opportunists who collaborate with the Americans who have no damn business being there in the first place, the US and their vassals have been supporting Islamist terrorists in Syria from day one, they call them moderate rebels, they are a mixed bag of Al Qaeda types, if the Russians had not gone in back in 2015 the black flag of Isis would be flying in Damascus with severed heads all over the place, the US has been supporting those Islamist nutters from Bosnia to Syria and Libya, your excuses just won't wash, it makes me sick that the US can support those savages just for political ends, they are depraved.

 

[Mushroom]

Wrong!

What, the uprising in Syria was not part of the Arab Spring movement? And the Kurds are opportunists?

Holy crap, you really do not know anything about the conflict, do you? Hell, the very name the Government of Syria political party is a racist organization that discriminates against minorities. It shares the name with the former party that rules Iraq, and was also known to be a racist organization that slaughtered minorities in their nation.

 

[Deadstick]

What, the uprising in Syria was not part of the Arab Spring movement? And the Kurds are opportunists?

Holy crap, you really do not know anything about the conflict, do you? Hell, the very name the Government of Syria political party is a racist organization that discriminates against minorities. It shares the name with the former party that rules Iraq, and was also known to be a racist organization that slaughtered minorities in their nation.

Bullshit! Syria is a secular Country, the US worked with the Muslim Brotherhood they are the ones who instigated the violence, Christians were safe in Syria until those Islamist head cases started murdering them, did you know many of the SAA are Sunni ? you really need to stop digging, your support for Islamist nutters who have caused havoc is not a good look.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

IMO there is a lot of truth in what Mushroom says above about the uprising in Syria starting innocently and the regime being bloody and dictatorial, but there is also some truth in Deadstick ‘s allegation that the U.S. role was hardly innocent itself, especially once the early democratic uprising phase passed and the uprising was essentially taken over by Sunni Islamic fanatics. Not everything is black and white, especially in the Middle East.

 

[Mushroom]

especially once the early democratic uprising phase passed and the uprising was essentially taken over by Sunni Islamic fanatics

It was never "taken over", the fanatics of Al-Qaeda and ISIL were simply taking advantage of the situation and were rejected by all others (as well as being driven out of Iraq). Especially by the SDF, who would fight them as fanatically as they fought against Assad's forces. AQ in Syria were never anything other than opportunists that tried to exploit it for their own gain and were rejected by both sides.

That is why the Islamic State only holds about 1% of the territory in Syria, in a small area in central Syria. As far away from the Kurdish controlled regions as they can get as if given a choice the Kurds will actually attack them over the Assad forces.

That is why the AQ-ISIL forces only hold a small area outside of Palmyra. They do not dare try to go into the areas held by any of the other groups because they all detest them passionately. The only nominal "Sunni forces" of consequence in the conflict is Tahrir al-Sham, based in NW Syria. And they are not anything even close to "fanatics", and have even ejected or killed any members who attempted to work with Al-Qaeda. But they are also one of the smallest groups fighting in the conflict, and their only ally of note is Turkey.

I honestly think in cases like this some people should use scorecards so they can keep all of the various groups separate. All too often I see people trying to lump multiple groups together, and that is always a failure.