United States Imperialism

[surada]

I doubt Libya had anything to do with Pan Am, there is no real evidence, but it was a political stance by the US at the time who had Libya in it's sights, it's more likely it involved Iran and the PFLPGC under George Habash retaliation for the US shooting down the Iranian airliner in the Gulf.

How long have you followed events in Libya?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The Libyans killed him….

Sure they did. Like the Italians killed Mussolini … all by themselves.

Do you not remember Hillary’s laughing boastful confession?
… “We came. We saw. He died.”

 

[surada]

Libyans some Islamists Al Qaeda supported by the US and it's Nato vassals, i never lived in Nazi Germany but i know what went down there

Al Qaeda is a rather small group. Before Libya went crazy ISIS had moved into Easter Libya.

Ambassador Stevens liked Benghazi and hoped to establish a consulate there.

 

[surada]

Sure they did. Like the Italians killed Mussolini … all by themselves.

Do you not remember Hillary’s laughing confession?:
“We came. We saw. He died.”

So what? She had already been through that hellish situation and it made no difference. Gaddafi was a pariah in the Arab world. He was so crazy, changeable and vengeful that he had no friends.

George Bush..Dubya..was deceived by Gaddafi into giving him a second chance.

 

[Mushroom]

I doubt Libya had anything to do with Pan Am

Right. He only admitted he had ordered it done, and agreed to pay almost $3 billion in compensation to the families of those killed. Abdelbaset al-Megrah was not a Libyan security operative who conducted the bombing. He did not admit as such in his trial, and was not convicted in 2000 of the murder of 270 people.

And when he got Prostate Cancer and was released on compassion grounds he was not flown to Libya where he got a hero's welcome. Where he was given a home by Gaddafi himself and lived in luxury.

This alone shows your delusion, as Gaddafi never hid his actions in the attack and was actually rather proud of them. This borders on insanity and denial to about the degree of denying Charles Manson was a mass murderer.

 

[Mushroom]

Gaddafi was a pariah in the Arab world.

Much of them saw him for what he was. Like Saddam in Iraq and Assad in Syria. Putting forward the image of being a "Good Muslim", while in reality not really caring about the faith and hiding behind it to justify any of the crimes they did. Some would use him, but none really trusted him because they knew the only thing that mattered to Gaddafi was what he wanted. Even the terrorist groups he supported did not trust him, they knew he would turn on them if he thought it would suit his purposes.

Something that a lot of critics of both Gaddafi and Hussein had was the fact that they were not really believers in the faith at all. Both of them were known to be huge drinkers, something prohibited by their faith. And even as they prohibited all alcohol in their countries, both of them were big time drinkers and had huge caches of illegal alcohol in their palaces. Something the more religious always saw as being hypocritical and proving that they were not real adherents of the faith. It was only a cloak they hid behind to try and justify their actions. Both men tried hard to project themselves as "secular", until they did something that offended other Islamic nations. Only then would they pull this cloak of being "Muslim" around themselves and try to project that they were religious people.

And almost ironically, some of those fighting him in the end were ones he used to support. When he turned his back on the terrorist groups and started driving them out of Libya as part of his agreement to normalize relations with the US and UK, many instead joined the movement to see him removed. As many of them he wanted to eject really had nowhere else to go, or did not want to go and wanted to remain what they were.

 

[surada]

Much of them saw him for what he was. Like Saddam in Iraq and Assad in Syria. Putting forward the image of being a "Good Muslim", while in reality not really caring about the faith and hiding behind it to justify any of the crimes they did. Some would use him, but none really trusted him because they knew the only thing that mattered to Gaddafi was what he wanted. Even the terrorist groups he supported did not trust him, they knew he would turn on them if he thought it would suit his purposes.

Something that a lot of critics of both Gaddafi and Hussein had was the fact that they were not really believers in the faith at all. Both of them were known to be huge drinkers, something prohibited by their faith. And even as they prohibited all alcohol in their countries, both of them were big time drinkers and had huge caches of illegal alcohol in their palaces. Something the more religious always saw as being hypocritical and proving that they were not real adherents of the faith. It was only a cloak they hid behind to try and justify their actions. Both men tried hard to project themselves as "secular", until they did something that offended other Islamic nations. Only then would they pull this cloak of being "Muslim" around themselves and try to project that they were religious people.

And almost ironically, some of those fighting him in the end were ones he used to support. When he turned his back on the terrorist groups and started driving them out of Libya as part of his agreement to normalize relations with the US and UK, many instead joined the movement to see him removed. As many of them he wanted to eject really had nowhere else to go, or did not want to go and wanted to remain what they were.

You have an excellent grasp of the situation.

 

[Deadstick]

Right. He only admitted he had ordered it done, and agreed to pay almost $3 billion in compensation to the families of those killed. Abdelbaset al-Megrah was not a Libyan security operative who conducted the bombing. He did not admit as such in his trial, and was not convicted in 2000 of the murder of 270 people.

And when he got Prostate Cancer and was released on compassion grounds he was not flown to Libya where he got a hero's welcome. Where he was given a home by Gaddafi himself and lived in luxury.

This alone shows your delusion, as Gaddafi never hid his actions in the attack and was actually rather proud of them. This borders on insanity and denial to about the degree of denying Charles Manson was a mass murderer.

You are the clowns in denial, Gaddafi wanted sanctions lifted thats why he paid compensation, what real evidence is there Libya bombed that aircraft? there isn't any.

 

[Mushroom]

You have an excellent grasp of the situation.

Thank you, it is actually something I have been watching for decades.

Way back in the 1980s this was well known. Gaddafi and his lavish drinking parties, then the moment the US attacked him in response for his bombing of US servicemembers in West Germany suddenly wearing traditional garb (instead of his almost iconic military uniform) and suddenly crying to everybody how devout he was. That was something he would do over and over again, and ironically I do believe later in life he did change, to a degree.

The above is pretty much how he was ever seen to the world. There are actually few photographs after he took power until around 1991 where he was not in uniform. It was only after the US responded that he was ever really seen in secular or religious garb.

However, that actually started to change in around 1990. After getting "spanked" by the US and other nations many times, he watched as Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait and that did seem to offend him. As he was a huge believer in "Pan-Arabic Unity" and was upset that one "Arab Nation" would attack another like that and so brutally. And ironically, he was one of the loudest to speak up in protest against that. And that was also at the time he started to kick out the terrorist groups and most fled to Iraq. Abi Nidal being one of them. His ANO was sponsored by Libya for decades, and had a lot of training camps there. But once Libya kicked them out, they went to Iraq. Where I still laugh as Abu himself died by "suicide", shooting himself in the head multiple times while living in a villa provided by Saddam.

I actually do believe he changed to a degree after 1990. By that time he was in his 50s, and was likely starting to rethink his life. He became much less antagonistic and seemed to actually start to at least try and do some good things. But his problem was that he was still brutal in his own country, and eventually it was time to "pay the piper". I think I first became aware of Libya as a country and the leadership back in 1978 when the "First Brother" was caught working as an undercover agent for Libya. It is one of the countries I have been watching closely for over 40 years.

 

[Mushroom]

You are the clowns in denial

Right. And Russia did not invade Ukraine, and Germany did not invade Poland.

 

[surada]

You are the clowns in denial, Gaddafi wanted sanctions lifted thats why he paid compensation, hat real evidence is there Libya bombed that aircraft? there isn't any.

That's what Halliburton hired Cheney to lobby his friends to lift sanctions on Libya, Iraq and the Stans.

 

[Deadstick]

So what? She had already been through that hellish situation and it made no difference. Gaddafi was a pariah in the Arab world. He was so crazy, changeable and vengeful that he had no friends.

George Bush..Dubya..was deceived by Gaddafi into giving him a second chance.

I saw that deraged cow Clinton laughing like a mad axe killer on hearing of the brutal killing of Gaddafi, she should be in a institution for the criminally insane.

 

[surada]

Thank you, it is actually something I have been watching for decades.

Way back in the 1980s this was well known. Gaddafi and his lavish drinking parties, then the moment the US attacked him in response for his bombing of US servicemembers in West Germany suddenly wearing traditional garb (instead of his almost iconic military uniform) and suddenly crying to everybody how devout he was. That was something he would do over and over again, and ironically I do believe later in life he did change, to a degree.

The above is pretty much how he was ever seen to the world. There are actually few photographs after he took power until around 1991 where he was not in uniform. It was only after the US responded that he was ever really seen in secular or religious garb.

However, that actually started to change in around 1990. After getting "spanked" by the US and other nations many times, he watched as Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait and that did seem to offend him. As he was a huge believer in "Pan-Arabic Unity" and was upset that one "Arab Nation" would attack another like that and so brutally. And ironically, he was one of the loudest to speak up in protest against that. And that was also at the time he started to kick out the terrorist groups and most fled to Iraq. Abi Nidal being one of them. His ANO was sponsored by Libya for decades, and had a lot of training camps there. But once Libya kicked them out, they went to Iraq. Where I still laugh as Abu himself died by "suicide", shooting himself in the head multiple times while living in a villa provided by Saddam.

I actually do believe he changed to a degree after 1990. By that time he was in his 50s, and was likely starting to rethink his life. He became much less antagonistic and seemed to actually start to at least try and do some good things. But his problem was that he was still brutal in his own country, and eventually it was time to "pay the piper". I think I first became aware of Libya as a country and the leadership back in 1978 when the "First Brother" was caught working as an undercover agent for Libya. It is one of the countries I have been watching closely for over 40 years.

Me too. I lived across the street from the US embassy in Tripoli years ago. The American oil companies were closely monitoring everything coming out of Tripoli and the Russian embassy on the same street. Gaddafi was young, had no education and was basically a wild card.

 

[surada]

I saw that deraged cow Clinton laughing like a mad axe killer on hearing of the brutal killing of Gaddafi, she should be in a institution for the criminally insane.

That's nonsense. She was flippant but after all the bullshit who can blame her.

 

[Deadstick]

That's nonsense. She was flippant but after all the bullshit who can blame her.

The woman is sick, i wouldn't laugh at any persons violent death, she is psychotic.

 

[Deadstick]

Me too. I lived across the street from the US embassy in Tripoli years ago. The American oil companies were closely monitoring everything coming out of Tripoli and the Russian embassy on the same street. Gaddafi was young, had no education and was basically a wild card.

It's always the oil, problem is much of it belongs to other people you think you are entitled to their oil.

 

[surada]

The woman is sick, i wouldn't laugh at any persons violent death, she is psychotic.

Nope . Remember all the BS about gold dinars and central banking.. just an endless barrage of ignorance and gossip.. blaming the US for the Arab spring. I think she was just out of patience with the crackpots and conspiracy theorists.

 

[surada]

It's always the oil, problem is much of it belongs to other people you think you are entitled to their oil.

Don't be stupid. You apparently don't know anything about concession agreements so you're part of that tiresome crap.

 

[Mushroom]

That's what Halliburton hired Cheney to lobby his friends to lift sanctions on Libya, Iraq and the Stans.

Well, not quite at all how you are presenting it.

The US had sanctions in place against Libya going all the way back to 1981. But as you stated earlier, in 2006 both nations were trying to establish ties again so many of the sanctions were lifted. And Vice President Cheney was not in any way "hired" to lift those sanctions, as he was Vice President at the time. That was all part of the effort of President Bush to try and rebuild relations with Libya and other Muslim nations.

But it did not last long, as by 2011 they had become strained yet again, and the Libyan Civil War had the US sever those ties once again.

But it was not just the US, the UN had multiple sanctions against Libya as well. The same goes for Iraq, as US sanctions against that nation came either just before or just after UN sanctions.

Not sure what you mean about "the Stans", as that could cover any of the seven nations that end with those letters. And as many as a dozen others are called that in many languages (especially Turkish), which add "stan" to the end of the names of other nations. Like "Greece", which is called "Yunanistan" in Turkish, Azerbaijani, and Tartar. It literally is just a Turkish and Persian language suffix that means "a Place". And Yunani is the ancient Persian name for Greece. Not unlike say "Germany" and "Deutschland".

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Hey, Mushroom , do you speak other languages, or perhaps have family ties or yourself were born outside the U.S.? No need to answer if you don’t want, but you seem to have a lot of knowledge about Middle East history, which I respect.