Unintended Consequences of Banning Abortion

[Correll]

And if everyone took pills exactly as they should and don't have medical conditions that prevent them from doing so and they never make a misstate, then the need for abortions almost goes away. Unfortunately, humans are not perfect and shit happens. Thus, the backup is the morning after pill, the abortion pill, or surgical abortion.

However in states that live in the19th century and ban abortions, a women still has a choice. They can get the hell out of these states and live in the 21st century where women have rights and they are valued higher than a fetus.

So, you expect to see a migration of women from "19th century" states to "21st century" states?

 

[Couchpotato]

And if everyone took pills exactly as they should and don't have medical conditions that prevent them from doing so and they never make a misstate, then the need for abortions almost goes away. Unfortunately, humans are not perfect and shit happens. Thus, the backup is the morning after pill, the abortion pill, or surgical abortion.

Remind me who's fault it is if YOU don't take YOUR pills. If you cant remember to take one pill per day then I question how worried you are about getting pregnant. It's not like everyone has a magic device in their pocket that will remind them to take it every day. Oh, wait.... Maybe you aren't mature enough to be having sex if you can't take the 1 minute it takes to set a repeating reminder on your phone. Maybe, you're just stupid.

However in states that live in the19th century and ban abortions, a women still has a choice. They can get the hell out of these states and live in the 21st century where women have rights and they are valued higher than a fetus.

A fetus isn't valued more than its mother just equally valued. The only side placing a higher value on one individual than the other is yours. But that's not actually true. What you are doing is placing a higher value on the mother's wants than the life of the fetus. All this BS about not having a choice is just that BS. You have tons of choices regarding reproduction right up to the point where you reproduce. Only then do your choices narrow, because, you don't have a choice to kill another individual because their existence is inconvenient for you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

However in states that live in the19th century and ban abortions, a women still has a choice. They can get the hell out of these states and live in the 21st century where women have rights and they are valued higher than a fetus.

Nothing would make me happier if the libs lived in the lib states and the conservatives lived in the conservative states. If all the libs moved out of my state, my property value would double overnight. The big plus is it would be a step in the direction of dividing this country into two countries.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The pill is about 90% effective and a diaphragm with spermicide is even more effective. However there is no foolproof birth control except abstinence. Diaphragms have to be fitted properly and spermicide have to be applied property. The right kind of birth control pills have to used and missing the pill can cause problems. For couples who seldom have sex, the probability of pregnancy is low but for those who have sexual intercourse nightly, the probability is high event with birth control.

All of the above assumes everything is done correctly even in the heat passion. If a mistake is made, the first alternative should be the morning after pill, presuming it's available. Next medical abortion done at home within the first ten weeks with the abortion bill. Lastly, a surgical abortion or giving birth.

Out of all my friends, family and coworkers, I've only known of one couple that had a pregnancy they didn't want, and that was my sister. She only used the timing method due to her religious beliefs. Everybody else I know managed not to have kids until they wanted them. Once they had the kids they planned on, no unwanted pregnancies after that. So how did they perform this great feat of theirs when your statistics say that it wasn't likely?

 

[Flopper]

So, you expect to see a migration of women from "19th century" states to "21st century" states?

I see it as possible for some that can afford the move. Others will remain stuck in the quagmire known as the Bible Belt, Texas/Oklahoma to South Carolina and north to Tennessee and Kentucky. They tried to leave the Union once. Too bad, Lincoln didn't let them go. Today they are the heart of hatred against Blacks, Gays, immigrants, and low income women, essentially anything and anyone that does not fit into their definition of a good American Christian.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I see it as possible for some that can afford the move. Others will remain stuck in the quagmire known as the Bible Belt, Texas/Oklahoma to South Carolina and north to Tennessee and Kentucky. They tried to leave the Union once. Too bad, Lincoln didn't let them go. Today they are the heart of hatred against Blacks, Gays, immigrants, and low income women, essentially anything and anyone that does not fit into their definition of a good American Christian.

When you have to spew lies to make your argument, you already lost the debate.

 

[Flopper]

Out of all my friends, family and coworkers, I've only known of one couple that had a pregnancy they didn't want, and that was my sister. She only used the timing method due to her religious beliefs. Everybody else I know managed not to have kids until they wanted them. Once they had the kids they planned on, no unwanted pregnancies after that. So how did they perform this great feat of theirs when your statistics say that it wasn't likely?

Very few couples announce that they are having a kid they don't want. I know in my own family, that there were several unexpected pregnancies and at least one was never wanted but not aborted and that was a big mistake.

Not wanting to bear or raise a child is a common reason given for an abortion. If the woman does not want the child and the state mandates that she have it then maternal bonding in first 12 months become unlikely. Unfortunately, most of these children are not put up for adoption and they will remain the unwanted children which of course leads to all kinds problems.

 

[Couchpotato]

Very few couples announce that they are having a kid they don't want. I know in my own family, that there were several unexpected pregnancies and at least one was never wanted but not aborted and that was a big mistake.

Not wanting to bear or raise a child is a common reason given for an abortion. If the woman does not want the child and the state mandates that she have it then maternal bonding in first 12 months become unlikely. Unfortunately, most of these children are not put up for adoption and they will remain the unwanted children which of course leads to all kinds problems.

Is one of those problems death at an extremely young age?

You’re saying that we should kill people based on possible hardship they might suffer in their future?

Thats your justification?

 

[Correll]

I see it as possible for some that can afford the move. Others will remain stuck in the quagmire known as the Bible Belt, Texas/Oklahoma to South Carolina and north to Tennessee and Kentucky. They tried to leave the Union once. Too bad, Lincoln didn't let them go. Today they are the heart of hatred against Blacks, Gays, immigrants, and low income women, essentially anything and anyone that does not fit into their definition of a good American Christian.

1. That's nonsense. This nation has had a bi-partisan consensus on equality for blacks and women for generations. Immigrants? Oh, you mean illegal aliens. lol.

2. Bus tickets don't cost that much. But I understand. You said it and when asked about it, realized that you were wrong. NO one is going to move because of this.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Very few couples announce that they are having a kid they don't want. I know in my own family, that there were several unexpected pregnancies and at least one was never wanted but not aborted and that was a big mistake.

Not wanting to bear or raise a child is a common reason given for an abortion. If the woman does not want the child and the state mandates that she have it then maternal bonding in first 12 months become unlikely. Unfortunately, most of these children are not put up for adoption and they will remain the unwanted children which of course leads to all kinds problems.

If a state mandates she have the baby then the simple solution is to go to a state that doesn't have such mandates. It's a free country you know, even with the Communists in charge.

Yes, I think if a couple found the woman was pregnant unexpectedly, they would not be coy about it. There's nothing to be embarrassed about. When my sister was pregnant, she had no problem telling us the child was not planned, on two separate occasions. No big deal.

Since I was a teen I never wanted to get married or have children, and I managed to do that throughout my life. I've had plenty of women, lived with two, one for a year and another for four years. All but two former girlfriends were using birth control. Never had a problem with it.

I think your failed birth control argument is a failure in itself. I believe that because abortion is legal, people have a tendency to be more irresponsible. I also think that people in states with strict abortion laws will see a reduction in unwanted pregnancies. Men suddenly becoming more interested in vasectomies? That's never happened in my lifetime.

Do you know what this reminds me of, drinking and driving. When I was a young man it wasn't a big deal. If a cop thought you were drinking and still capable of driving, he'd follow you home to make sure you got there safely. If he thought you were unsafe, he'd give you a ride home. If he arrested you, it was a couple dollar fine. When insurance companies learned they could payoff politicians to write laws in their favor, DUI became a major issue. You lose your license except for work privileges. Your car insurance rates double or more. For multiple offenses, you can even find yourself in prison for several months. Some get their license suspended for life. The result? A huge decrease in DUI offenses and deaths. At one time New Years Eve was a huge thing. Today it doesn't mean that much because everybody who drinks is afraid to go out.

 

[Flopper]

When you have to spew lies to make your argument, you already lost the debate.

There is no argument. There is just my opinion. The South in my opinion is a shitty place to live. I spent nearly a third of my life there, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. I was there in Plaquemine Parish Louisiana when Martin Luther King addressed protestors and the KKK was there in force with guns and the police did nothing. I was at Oxford Mississippi when James Meredith assisted by Medgar Evers enrolled in Ole Miss. The only thing that keep the good people of the state from killing them both was the US Marshals. And I was there a few years later when Klansman Byron De La Beckwith shot Evers in back and killed. And Mississippi courts tried and failed twice to convict him. A third trial did convince him but the jury ask for leniency and he got life in prison instead of the electric chair. However that was expected because no white man had ever executed for killing a N.....

I visited rural Northern Alabama and Mississippi a few years ago. Yes a lots has changes but a lot remains the same. Mississippi has the highest poverty rate in the country followed by Louisiana. Everything was integrated but in reality it was as segregated as it ever was. Old men still sat around cafes tables cursing the federal government that was feeding them and the confederate flag still flies in some places. There was a black sheriff and black deputies which is certainly a step in right direction. Unemployment is about average but most people are dirt poor. They work their asses off and can't make enough to support a family. I flew out of Jackson after visiting my cousin a few days. When I arrive home I felt like I had been in a 3rd world country.

 

[toobfreak]

Unintended Consequences of Banning Abortion​

No one has banned abortion. At worst, it is up to YOUR STATE now and if they've made a decision you don't like forcing you to go elsewhere to flush a human being down the waste desposal, then I suggest you get on the blower and tell your state legislator how unhappy you are at their law. Of course, if you are a blue state lib like most wanting an abortion on demand, then you likely have no worries! Just keep popping those dead babies in the trash can, or maybe sell their brains to science.

 

[Flopper]

If a state mandates she have the baby then the simple solution is to go to a state that doesn't have such mandates. It's a free country you know, even with the Communists in charge.

Yes, I think if a couple found the woman was pregnant unexpectedly, they would not be coy about it. There's nothing to be embarrassed about. When my sister was pregnant, she had no problem telling us the child was not planned, on two separate occasions. No big deal.

Since I was a teen I never wanted to get married or have children, and I managed to do that throughout my life. I've had plenty of women, lived with two, one for a year and another for four years. All but two former girlfriends were using birth control. Never had a problem with it.

I think your failed birth control argument is a failure in itself. I believe that because abortion is legal, people have a tendency to be more irresponsible. I also think that people in states with strict abortion laws will see a reduction in unwanted pregnancies. Men suddenly becoming more interested in vasectomies? That's never happened in my lifetime.

Do you know what this reminds me of, drinking and driving. When I was a young man it wasn't a big deal. If a cop thought you were drinking and still capable of driving, he'd follow you home to make sure you got there safely. If he thought you were unsafe, he'd give you a ride home. If he arrested you, it was a couple dollar fine. When insurance companies learned they could payoff politicians to write laws in their favor, DUI became a major issue. You lose your license except for work privileges. Your car insurance rates double or more. For multiple offenses, you can even find yourself in prison for several months. Some get their license suspended for life. The result? A huge decrease in DUI offenses and deaths. At one time New Years Eve was a huge thing. Today it doesn't mean that much because everybody who drinks is afraid to go out.

25% that have abortions are in the middle and upper economic class. I'm sure they will be more careful with birth control. They will have the morning after pill just in case and when they get pregnant they will fly away and have their abortion and return home.

However the other 75% which is low income is in a much different situation. Birth control is available from Medicaid but there are stipulations. If you lose the supply, you have to buy a a replacement which cost up to $50. You also have to have a yearly doctors appointment. Also Medicaid services are available by region the you live in. So if you move you have to change registration address so you can get service in that regions. Since many of these people are transient moving between jobs, getting your medication can be a big problem. Also this is a group that will have many homeless and Hispanics that may or may not be legal. These people will not be traveling out of state to get abortions because it is not about just having the money to travel. You have find a clinic that has an open appointment within the time frame of 10 weeks. Medical abortions are only available in first 10 weeks. After that it's surgical abortion which can run as much $3000. And the cost will not be paid by Medicaid. The only real option for these people is home abortion using whatever means are available.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

25% that have abortions are in the middle and upper economic class. I'm sure they will be more careful with birth control. They will have the morning after pill just in case and when they get pregnant they will fly away and have their abortion and return home.

However the other 75% which is low income is in a much different situation. Birth control is available from Medicaid but there are stipulations. If you lose the supply, you have to buy a a replacement which cost up to $50. You also have to have a yearly doctors appointment. Also Medicaid services are available by region the you live in. So if you move you have to change registration address so you can get service in that regions. Since many of these people are transient moving between jobs, getting your medication can be a big problem. Also this is a group that will have many homeless and Hispanics that may or may not be legal. These people will not be traveling out of state to get abortions because it is not about just having the money to travel. You have find a clinic that has an open appointment within the time frame of 10 weeks. Medical abortions are only available in first 10 weeks. After that it's surgical abortion which can run as much $3000. And the cost will not be paid by Medicaid. The only real option for these people is home abortion using whatever means are available.

You are going back to one in a million cases here. It's like I said with the voter-id claims that some people can't obtain a voter-id because of distance or money. You tell them there is a $1,000 check waiting for them at the other end of the state, and all you have to do is get there with proper ID, they'd be there the next day. Same with abortions. And where in the world do you get this 75% figure from? Plus if you go to a blue state that has no limitations on when you could get an abortion, the ten weeks window is out of the picture as well.

 

[toobfreak]

However the other 75% which is low income is in a much different situation.

Yes, they will just have to stop fucking around, cross their legs or masturbate for a change. Oh, the humanity.

 

[Flopper]

you go to a blue state that has no limitations on when you could get an

I guess I wasn't clear. The 10 week rule is an FDA regulation on the use of medical abortions; that is abortion pills which is about half of all abortions. In a medial abortion, the woman is sent home with pills and the clinc monitors her progress. The cost is typically $500 to $1,000. After 10 weeks the procedure becomes more complicated and cost is more, up to several thousand dollars.

For those with low income, about 75% of those who seek abortions , they are likely to rely on Medicaid but being a state program, it will not pay for out of state abortions. So even it those with low or no income make it out of state, how are they going to pay for it? This is why I believe most of those below the poverty level are going to rely on home abortions using whatever devices or medication that are available.

For those that aren't low income, they will just travel out state and either use their insurance or pay out of pocket.

As with so many things, it is the poor that will suffer. That's the way it was before Roe. The poor would us coat hangers or whatever is available. Middle and upper income families would send the their daughters to visit Aunt Sally, a little rest home where an abortion will become medically necessary and local authorities, look the other way.

NEW RESEARCH FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND IN OUR OWN VOICE SHOWS THAT HALF OF WOMEN OF REPRODUCTIVE AGE COULD LOSE ACCESS TO LEGAL ABORTION

Get the latest news and developments in Planned Parenthood's efforts as they work to provide quality women's health care and sex education in the U.S.

www.plannedparenthood.org

 

[Flopper]

No one has banned abortion. At worst, it is up to YOUR STATE now and if they've made a decision you don't like forcing you to go elsewhere to flush a human being down the waste desposal, then I suggest you get on the blower and tell your state legislator how unhappy you are at their law. Of course, if you are a blue state lib like most wanting an abortion on demand, then you likely have no worries! Just keep popping those dead babies in the trash can, or maybe sell their brains to science.

When your state does not allow abortions it is banning abortions.

Going out of state is not possible for all women. First their is the cost of getting there. Then there is the cost of the abortion, $500-$1000 for a medical abortion and after 10 weeks up to $3,000. Once you are there you have to have a place to stay while you wait since many states are going to have a lot more patients than they can handle and some states have waiting periods. Some states like New Mexico have abortion clinics in only 3 counties and only 9 in the whole state. Colorado has about 28 but they are running at capacity just handling their on state.

The answer is going have to be the abortion pills by mail. It will be almost impossible for the states to enforce their abortion laws and the pills will be widely available. They are being used in dozens of countries and are available now online in the US with delivers in 6 to 14 days with prices as low as $110.

 

[BS Filter]

No, the religious right came from a theocracy that wanted soldiers.
Like the song says, "Onward Christian Soldier".
{...
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus going on before
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe
Forward into battle see His banners go
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus going on before
At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee
On then, Christian soldiers, on to victory
Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise
Brothers lift your voices, loud your anthems raise
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus going on before
Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng
Blend with ours your voices in the triumph song
Glory, laud and honor unto Christ the King
This through countless ages men and angels sing
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus going on before
With the cross of Jesus going on before
...}
It is not about person values, it is about murdering those with other beliefs.

You're insane.

 

[toobfreak]

When your state does not allow abortions it is banning abortions.

No state can summarily ban in advance a medical procedure. All they are saying is that at present they will not support one but you can always cross state lines. IMO, it is a big mistake to even say you are "banning" abortions just as it is wrong to say you'll permit ALL abortions right up to the ninth month, and not simply RESTRICT them to medically necessary or at least within 10-16 weeks of conception after receiving counseling.

Going out of state is not possible for all women. First their is the cost of getting there. Then there is the cost of the abortion, $500-$1000 for a medical abortion and after 10 weeks up to $3,000.

Should have thought of that before letting yourself get knocked up. if you are that poor, why are you having kids? I'm sure the HHS will help them out.

The answer is going have to be the abortion pills by mail.

The real answer is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. No one gets pregnant without personal involvement. It's not like getting a visit from Ed McMann. It's real easy to avoid pregnancy, just don't fuck around. When my wife and I decided we didn't want anymore kids, I got fixed.

Bottom line: idiots will start being a lot more careful now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When your state does not allow abortions it is banning abortions.

Going out of state is not possible for all women. First their is the cost of getting there. Then there is the cost of the abortion, $500-$1000 for a medical abortion and after 10 weeks up to $3,000. Once you are there you have to have a place to stay while you wait since many states are going to have a lot more patients than they can handle and some states have waiting periods. Some states like New Mexico have abortion clinics in only 3 counties and only 9 in the whole state. Colorado has about 28 but they are running at capacity just handling their on state.

The answer is going have to be the abortion pills by mail. It will be almost impossible for the states to enforce their abortion laws and the pills will be widely available. They are being used in dozens of countries and are available now online in the US with delivers in 6 to 14 days with prices as low as $110.

Well if Roe would have been ruled constitutional, there still would have been the cost to get the abortion so I don't see why you brought that up. I'm unaware of any abortion clinic that gives discounts to people who live in the state.

Abortion clinics are like any other business, supply and demand. If demand gets too high, they will happily open up more or expand the facilities they already have for a higher profit margin.

Your arguments just don't hold any water.