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All of which illustrate the reckless, irresponsible idiocy of ‘banning’ abortion; and that attempting to enforce abortion ‘bans’ is bad governance and destructive public policy.The law seems to be a complete mess. For example:
Committing an abortion is charged as a Class A felony (punishable by up to 99 years in prison)
However:
There is no criminal or civil liability for women who choose to have an abortion in violation of state law.
So if a women receives abortions pills and instructions from a doctor in an abortion clinic In Colorado where abortions are legal and the woman takes the pills as directed n Alabama is she liable or is the Doctor in Colorado liable? Or is neither liable. In other words, who is committing the abortion?
Here's another interesting point. Suppose a court in Alabama issues a felony warrant for the Doctor's arrest for the abortion which took place in Alabama but the doctor has never been in Alabama. Would this warrant be legal?
If so, the state that issued the arrest warrant, Alabama cannot cross state borders and arrest the doctor in Colorado. So can the state of Colorado be forced to find the doctor, arrest, and hold him for transfer to Alabama?
Placing a baby with Downs Syndrome up for adoption is the a choice of the parent. However, once the child is at home and being care for by the parent, it is no longer a decision of the parent but the state. In other words it will be the decision of the court based on recommendations of a social worker. The Social Worker will almost always be looking at what is best for the child. Making the decision to give up or keep the child immediately after or before birth rather waiting is probably the best decision for both the child and the mother because the child will bond with the mother in the first 12 months and moving the child after this period can be bad for both mother and child.Many people, including me, think that deciding to have an abortion just because a person doesn't want a Downs child is immoral. But that's presupposing the person wanted a child to raise, but they think the added burden of Downs makes them not want THAT child. BUT, your post is a good illustration of my disagreement with Dobbs and why the Sup Ct just made a theocrat moral judgment for everyone.
The options would be a parent who didn't even want the kid had to "care" for it. That doesn't seem to be a warm and nurturing household there. Can a parent still place a Downs kid in state care? They go to school and have emotions and logic, what would the effect of knowing your parent considered you "a reject" be. Sometimes, there just isn't just one "good" answer and one "bad" answer to situations. People by definition are imperfect, and some just don't have as much love/empathy as others. An easier good/bad scenario would be a parent who has other kids, but didn't count on needing the additional emotional and financial resources that they just don't have for a Downs kid. Their decision may involve protecting the futures of the kids they already have.
But under Dobbs, the fetus actually has greater legal rights than the mother. A state can legally require a 10 year old to carry a rapist's child, possibly to term, and even die giving birth. The Dobbs' theocrats liken abortion to murder, but factually and logically it doesn't equate, and their decisions are based just on their personal morals.
IF I murder my neighbor because I don't like him, or to steal his money, I'm not basing my decision on my ability to care for a child. Abortion isn't the same thing as murdering another living breathing person. And the central holding of Dobbs is that the consitution gives the State the power to make the choice to try and carry a zygot to term, rather than give individuals the right to decide that for themselves. And that's why more than 70% of us think Dobbs is bullshit and the theocrats are nutters ... at best.
The law seems to be a complete mess. For example:
Committing an abortion is charged as a Class A felony (punishable by up to 99 years in prison)
However:
There is no criminal or civil liability for women who choose to have an abortion in violation of state law.
So if a women receives abortions pills and instructions from a doctor in an abortion clinic In Colorado where abortions are legal and the woman takes the pills as directed in Alabama is she liable or is the Doctor in Colorado liable? Or is neither liable. In other words, who is committing the abortion?
Here's another interesting point. Suppose a court in Alabama issues a felony warrant for the Doctor's arrest for the abortion which took place in Alabama but the doctor has never been in Alabama. Would this warrant be legal?
If so, the state that issued the arrest warrant, Alabama cannot cross state borders and arrest the doctor in Colorado. So can the state of Colorado be forced to find the doctor, arrest, and hold him for transfer to Alabama?
Not at all because Alabama has no jurisdiction in Colorado. However they can issue a warrant for his arrest if he did perform the abortion in Alabama. He might even lose his medical license.
It's much ado about nothing because every woman in the country can get an abortion in a providing state. It's not like Republicans have leadership and are trying to make it illegal in all 50 states. I think it would be political suicide to even try it.
No every women can't get an abortion in a providing states. In Houston, Tx the closest place to get a legal abortion is Tallahassee, Fl, 700 miles or over a 10 hour drive assuming you have a vehicle. There are 3 abortion clinics, all have waiting lists of at least 5 days. How is a person that has little if any money going to be able to travel 700 miles, find lodging for at least 5 days and pay for an abortion that will cost $700 to $3000 that will not be covered under Medicaid. These people, and there are many of them will resort to age old remedies, back alley abortion, knitting needles, and other home tools sure to abort and sure to cause life threatening situations.
floridaprebornrescue.com
You are making some broad assumptions, first that the woman has the means to get transportation and that there will be appointments open at one of the abortion clinics in a reasonable period within that city, and that she has funds for food and lodging, and that she has funds for the abortion. Medicaid will not cover the cost of the abortion for those out of state and most abortion clinics do not discount prices like Planned Parenthood or offer payment plans.I know Dementia Fd up our gasoline prices, but even a McDonald's worker can afford to travel 700 miles. At 20 mpg, that's 35 gallons of gasoline. 35 gallons of gasoline at $4.75 per gallon is around $165.00. Florida has the third highest amount of abortion clinics in the country.
Florida Preborn Rescue | FLORIDA ABORTION CLINICS
Florida Abortion Clinics - Florida Currently Has 51 Abortion Clinics. The Third Highest State Total In The Country.Find The One Closest To You, And Go Rescu...
apnews.com
Ectopic pregnancies should be an exception as should rape, incest, a fetus that can't survive, pregnant women who are mentally incompetent, children as young as 12 being forced to give birth to children.‘A sexual assault survivor chooses sterilization so that if she is ever attacked again, she won’t be forced to give birth to a rapist’s baby. An obstetrician delays inducing a miscarriage until a woman with severe pregnancy complications seems “sick enough.” A lupus patient must stop taking medication that controls her illness because it can also cause miscarriages.
Abortion restrictions in a number of states and the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade are having profound repercussions in reproductive medicine as well as in other areas of medical care.
“For physicians and patients alike, this is a frightening and fraught time, with new, unprecedented concerns about data privacy, access to contraception, and even when to begin lifesaving care,” said Dr. Jack Resneck, president of the American Medical Association.
Even in medical emergencies, doctors are sometimes declining immediate treatment. In the past week, an Ohio abortion clinic received calls from two women with ectopic pregnancies — when an embryo grows outside the uterus and can’t be saved — who said their doctors wouldn’t treat them. Ectopic pregnancies often become life-threatening emergencies and abortion clinics aren’t set up to treat them.
It’s just one example of “the horrible downstream effects of criminalizing abortion care,″ said Dr. Catherine Romanos, who works at the Dayton clinic.’
Abortion laws spark profound changes in other medical care
The Supreme Court's decision to let states outlaw most abortions is having profound repercussions in reproductive medicine as well as in other areas of medical care.
The horrible downstream effects of reckless, irresponsible righting political dogma.
news.gallup.com
Citizens should be able to make private decisions about their lives absent interference from government.should
You are making some broad assumptions, first that the woman has the means to get transportation and that there will be appointments open at one of the abortion clinics in a reasonable period within that city, and that she has funds for food and lodging, and that she has funds for the abortion. Medicaid will not cover the cost of the abortion for those out of state and most abortion clinics do not discount prices like Planned Parenthood or offer payment plans.
Eventfully, there will be reliable sources selling abortion pills at reasonable prices. Right now there are only a few and most of them are probably out of the country. Planned Parenthood has said they plan to offer medical abortions with pills mailed but they can not offer them in states where there are bans on abortion and they still have clinics that are open. Apparently they plan to to keep some clinics open in these states to provide STD testing, birth control, emergency contraception (Morning After Pill), HIV services, Transgender Hormone Therapy, Pregnancy's Testing, Abortion Counseling, and General Health Services.
It seems the question would be who did the abortion. The doctor in Colorado who prescribed the medication or the patient who took the medication in Alabama. It the doctor is responsible, then neither the woman nor the doctor could be charged. This would mean that any abortion clinic outstate the state could provide the woman in Alabama with the medication and no one would be charged.Not at all because Alabama has no jurisdiction in Colorado. However they can issue a warrant for his arrest if he did perform the abortion in Alabama. He might even lose his medical license.
It's much ado about nothing because every woman in the country can get an abortion in a providing state. It's not like Republicans have leadership and are trying to make it illegal in all 50 states. I think it would be political suicide to even try it.
It seems the question would be who did the abortion. The doctor in Colorado who prescribed the medication or the patient who took the medication in Alabama. It the doctor is responsible, then neither the woman nor the doctor could be charged. This would mean that any abortion clinic outstate the state could provide the woman in Alabama with the medication and no one would be charged.
That was the way it was before telemedicine. Today, you can get appointments on line and doctors will prescribe medicines and order tests without seeing you in person. Of course there are limits.That is correct. But I don't see any doctor prescribing anything unless he physically sees the patient and does a profile on her.
Ectopic pregnancies should be an exception as should rape, incest, a fetus that can't survive, pregnant women who are mentally incompetent, children as young as 12 being forced to give birth to children.
Republican men in legislatures considered these and dozens of other legitimate reasons for an abortion but were dropped in lieu of political expediency. The purpose was to save as many fetuses as possible. The harm to women was never a consideration.
Republicans will find that they have made a major mistake. The most recent Gallup poll on abortion have revealed a remarkable change in American opinion on abortion. In 2 years the number of American believing abortion should be illegal in all circumstances has dropped from 20% to 13%. The number of people that consider themselves prolife has fallen from 46% to 39%, the lowest in over 25 years and the number that consider themselves pro-choice has risen from 46% to 55%, the highest in 25 years. Even more telling is a poll showing 92% of republican men favoring banning abortion while only 49% of Republican women favor banning abortions, (48% opposed banning abortions).
Abortion
With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life? Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?
That was the way it was before telemedicine. Today, you can get appointments on line and doctors will prescribe medicines and order tests without seeing you in person. Of course there are limits.
For a Medical Abortion from a clinic, the patient will complete a medical history prior to seeing the doctor (in person or telemedicine). The doctor reviews your medical history and based on what he learns from the appointment he may order a blood test and/or an ultrasound at a local lab it the patient has not had one already. When he receives the results, he will send the medication with instructions. The clinic will contact the patient before she takes pills and after. The clinics have 24 hour help lines also.
For Medical Abortion from a provider out the county, the services will depend on what you pay. At the top end, you will do same thing you do with a clinic within the country but at a lower cost. At the bottom end, the patient is just buying the medication and instructions from an out of country pharmacy.
The best option is to go to a clinic in person or via telemedicine but that may not be an option due to finances or other obstacles. Going online and dealing with an out of country pharmacy is the cheapest but not the safest. The cost of medication will be less than $100.
I personally have got a prescription from a doctor last year I had never seen when I was on a camping trip in Oregon. I went online created a medical history and scheduled an appointment on line. Later the same day I had an appointment with the doctor and got a prescription, instructions, and a recommendation to see my family when I returned home. There are medications such as narcotics and those that typically require tests before prescribing that will not be prescribed online without testing. Some people like my granddaughter deals only with a Telemedicine clinic. There is one near me. It is just a hole in wall that has no doctors present just people that handle billing, appointments, and general questions.No, you can't get prescriptions over face time from a new doctor. If you are a current patient that has seen the doctor, yes, they'll do that. But not for somebody they don't know or who they didn't see in person first.
I personally have got a prescription online from a doctor last year I had never seen when I was on a camping trip in Oregon. I went online created a medical history and scheduled an appointment on line. Later the same day I had an appointment with the doctor and got a prescription, instructions, and a recommendation to see my family when I returned home. There are medications such as narcotics and those that typically require tests before prescribing that will not be prescribed online without testing. Some people like my granddaughter deals only with a Telemedicine clinic. There is one near me. It is just a hole in wall that has no doctors present just people that handle billing, appointments, and general questions.
For medical abortions, the clinic will typical ask for certain tests such as a blood test and/or an ultrasound. If the woman is at the clinic, they often do it there. If woman is seeing the doctor online, he will send the order for the test he wants to a local lab. However, there is a good chance the tests have been done because most women schedule a doctors appointment to confirm their pregnancy. Unlike an abortion, all insurance including Medicaid will pay this visit and tests.
There are a number devices that the patient can use to take vitals and collect data that can help the doctor but that's another subject.
