Unintended Consequences of Banning Abortion

[Ray From Cleveland]

I guess I wasn't clear. The 10 week rule is an FDA regulation on the use of medical abortions; that is abortion pills which is about half of all abortions. In a medial abortion, the woman is sent home with pills and the clinc monitors her progress. The cost is typically $500 to $1,000. After 10 weeks the procedure becomes more complicated and cost is more, up to several thousand dollars.

For those with low income, about 75% of those who seek abortions , they are likely to rely on Medicaid but being a state program, it will not pay for out of state abortions. So even it those with low or no income make it out of state, how are they going to pay for it? This is why I believe most of those below the poverty level are going to rely on home abortions using whatever devices or medication that are available.

For those that aren't low income, they will just travel out state and either use their insurance or pay out of pocket.

As with so many things, it is the poor that will suffer. That's the way it was before Roe. The poor would us coat hangers or whatever is available. Middle and upper income families would send the their daughters to visit Aunt Sally, a little rest home where an abortion will become medically necessary and local authorities, look the other way.

NEW RESEARCH FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND IN OUR OWN VOICE SHOWS THAT HALF OF WOMEN OF REPRODUCTIVE AGE COULD LOSE ACCESS TO LEGAL ABORTION

Get the latest news and developments in Planned Parenthood's efforts as they work to provide quality women's health care and sex education in the U.S.

www.plannedparenthood.org

Medicaid is a federal/state program funded by both.

 

[Flopper]

No state can summarily ban in advance a medical procedure. All they are saying is that at present they will not support one but you can always cross state lines. IMO, it is a big mistake to even say you are "banning" abortions just as it is wrong to say you'll permit ALL abortions right up to the ninth month, and not simply RESTRICT them to medically necessary or at least within 10-16 weeks of conception after receiving counseling.


Should have thought of that before letting yourself get knocked up. if you are that poor, why are you having kids? I'm sure the HHS will help them out.


The real answer is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. No one gets pregnant without personal involvement. It's not like getting a visit from Ed McMann. It's real easy to avoid pregnancy, just don't fuck around. When my wife and I decided we didn't want anymore kids, I got fixed.

Bottom line: idiots will start being a lot more careful now.

Well if Roe would have been ruled constitutional, there still would have been the cost to get the abortion so I don't see why you brought that up. I'm unaware of any abortion clinic that gives discounts to people who live in the state.

Abortion clinics are like any other business, supply and demand. If demand gets too high, they will happily open up more or expand the facilities they already have for a higher profit margin.

Your arguments just don't hold any water.

View attachment 670359

Well if Roe would have been ruled constitutional, there still would have been the cost to get the abortion so I don't see why you brought that up. I'm unaware of any abortion clinic that gives discounts to people who live in the state.

Abortion clinics are like any other business, supply and demand. If demand gets too high, they will happily open up more or expand the facilities they already have for a higher profit margin.

Your arguments just don't hold any water.

View attachment 670359

In some states abortion with Medicaid is funded.

 

[Flopper]

Medicaid is a federal/state program funded by both.

Medicaid is a state program supplemented with federal dollars. It can not be used out of state with exception for emergencies. So a person could not travel to Illinois for an abortion and have Medicaid pay the bill, even thou abortions are paid for by Illinois Medicaid. You would have to establish residence in Illinois to be covered.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Medicaid is a state program supplemented with federal dollars. It can not be used out of state with exception for emergencies. So a person could not travel to Illinois for an abortion and have Medicaid pay the bill, even thou abortions are paid for by Illinois Medicaid. You would have to establish residence in Illinois to be covered.

Okay, but let's say Illinois was strongly against abortion. Don't you think that they would have cutoff Medicaid funding long ago even to their residents?

 

[Flopper]

In some states abortion with Medicaid is funded.

Planned Parenthood provides grants and discounts based on income to pay what insurance and Medicaid and other programs don't pay. They also offer payments plans for those that needed it. There are many grant programs available.

 

[Flopper]

Okay, but let's say Illinois was strongly against abortion. Don't you think that they would have cutoff Medicaid funding long ago even to their residents?

I would be suppressed if states in the Bible Belt paid anything. However, when abortion was legal in these state, there were agencies like planned parenthood that provide deep discounts on services, grants, and interest free payment plans. That of course all went away when the states made abortion illegal. In some states, even helping those that have no funds became illegal. There was a fund setup to help adults and children rape victims get abortions. Hopefully it is located in a Blue state.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I would be suppressed if states in the Bible Belt paid anything. However, when abortion was legal in these state, there were agencies like planned parenthood that provide deep discounts on services, grants, and interest free payment plans. That of course all went away when the states made abortion illegal. In some states, even helping those that have no funds became illegal. There was a fund setup to help adults and children rape victims get abortions. Hopefully it is located in a Blue state.

I don't know of any state where all abortions are totally illegal enough to stop PP from continuing what they do.

 

[Flopper]

I don't know of any state where all abortions are totally illegal enough to stop PP from continuing what they do.

They are nonprofit but they do need the income from abortions to keep the doors open. Abortions performed due to health problems of the woman are usually performed in hospitals.

All abortions are illegal in Alabama with exception of those needed to sustain the health of the woman. There is no time period where they are legal and the law does not allow an exception for rape or incest. Nor does the law grant an exceptions for children who are raped. If a 11 year old gets pregnant, she can not get an abortion in Alabama. Remember, in Alabama, 14 year old girls were sold by their parent into marriages to older men. So when they wrote the abortion law they didn't make exceptions for children.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They are nonprofit but they do need the income from abortions to keep the doors open. Abortions performed due to health problems of the woman are usually performed in hospitals.

All abortions are illegal in Alabama with exception of those needed to sustain the health of the woman. There is no time period where they are legal and the law does not allow an exception for rape or incest. Nor does the law grant an exceptions for children who are raped. If a 11 year old gets pregnant, she can not get an abortion in Alabama. Remember, in Alabama, 14 year old girls were sold by their parent into marriages to older men. So when they wrote the abortion law they didn't make exceptions for children.

I found this site and it's a bit confusing. Here is what it says about Alabama:

Restrictions on Abortion​

In Alabama, the following restrictions on abortion were in effect as of June 28, 2022:

• A patient must receive state-directed counseling that includes information designed to discourage the patient from having an abortion, and then wait 48 hours before the procedure is provided.
• Health plans offered in the state’s health exchange under the Affordable Care Act can only cover abortion in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
• The use of telemedicine to administer medication abortion is prohibited.
• The parent of a minor must consent before an abortion is provided.
• Public funding is available for abortion only in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
• A patient must undergo an ultrasound before obtaining an abortion; the provider must offer the patient the option to view the image.
• Abortion is banned, except in cases of life endangerment and health of the patient.
• The state requires abortion clinics to meet unnecessary and burdensome standards related to their physical plant, equipment and staffing.

What's confusing to me is it states abortions are banned except in cases where life endangerment or health are involved. Yet Commie Care is allowed to cover rape and incest pregnancies. It also says public funding is available for the same. More confusing is that it states a parent must consent for a minor to have an abortion. Okay, so if all abortions are banned, why do they have these provisions including rape and a minor wanting to get an abortion?

State Facts About Abortion

Each year, a broad cross section of U.S. women have abortions. This series of fact sheets provides data on the incidence of abortion as well as abortion service provision at the state level. Click below to see a selected state's fact sheet

www.guttmacher.org

 

[Stann]

There are a number of unintended consequences of overturning Roe v Wade

• Requests for vasectomies and tubal ligation have increased significantly in the Abortion Banned states, as much as 900% in some areas.
• The morning after pill is running in short supply as women in banned states are buying up local supplies
• The FDA made shipment of abortions pills through the mail legal opening the way for mail order buying.
• Producers of the abortion pills are increasing inventories preparing for increased demand.
• 6 states have started funds to help the poor travel to states that offer abortion services
• Planned Parenthood now has a 300 million dollar fund to assist low income women get abortions
• Over 30 major corporations including Amazon, Starbucks, and Microsoft have announced they will pay for travel for employees and families to get an abortion.
• Doctors in the banned states report large numbers of requests for birth control pills, and other types of contraception.
• Interviews with women in banned states indicate women will begin paying more attentions to contraception and use the day after pill.

It is looking more like the the hundreds of thousands of unwanted babies birthed by women under threat of arrest will be far less than the right anticipated due to more attention to contraception, the day after pill, use of abortion pills, increased sterilization, and travel assistance to abortion clinics from a number of sources.

I was just reading about down syndrome. 67% of women who are diagnosed with a fetus that has down syndrome end up having an abortion. As it is from 1979 to 2003 but down syndrome population has increased by 30%. States that have these abortion restrictions will have more births of down syndrome children. More people will give these babies up and turn them over to the state. Medical cost for down syndromes children between the ages of 0 to 4 years old are 12 times higher than regular children. The morbidity rate is a lot higher too. So, the end result will be these stupid States that have created these horrible abortion laws will become even stupider and poorer. They will also be straight so no one will want to visit. And a few hundred years from now you will be able to distinctly tell by looking at the people living there what their problem is.

 

[bendog]

I was just reading about down syndrome. 67% of women who are diagnosed with a fetus that has down syndrome end up having an abortion. As it is from 1979 to 2003 but down syndrome population has increased by 30%. States that have these abortion restrictions will have more births of down syndrome children. More people will give these babies up and turn them over to the state. Medical cost for down syndromes children between the ages of 0 to 4 years old are 12 times higher than regular children. The morbidity rate is a lot higher too. So, the end result will be these stupid States that have created these horrible abortion laws will become even stupider and poorer. They will also be straight so no one will want to visit. And a few hundred years from now you will be able to distinctly tell by looking at the people living there what their problem is.

Many people, including me, think that deciding to have an abortion just because a person doesn't want a Downs child is immoral. But that's presupposing the person wanted a child to raise, but they think the added burden of Downs makes them not want THAT child. BUT, your post is a good illustration of my disagreement with Dobbs and why the Sup Ct just made a theocrat moral judgment for everyone.

The options would be a parent who didn't even want the kid had to "care" for it. That doesn't seem to be a warm and nurturing household there. Can a parent still place a Downs kid in state care? They go to school and have emotions and logic, what would the effect of knowing your parent considered you "a reject" be. Sometimes, there just isn't just one "good" answer and one "bad" answer to situations. People by definition are imperfect, and some just don't have as much love/empathy as others. An easier good/bad scenario would be a parent who has other kids, but didn't count on needing the additional emotional and financial resources that they just don't have for a Downs kid. Their decision may involve protecting the futures of the kids they already have.

But under Dobbs, the fetus actually has greater legal rights than the mother. A state can legally require a 10 year old to carry a rapist's child, possibly to term, and even die giving birth. The Dobbs' theocrats liken abortion to murder, but factually and logically it doesn't equate, and their decisions are based just on their personal morals.

IF I murder my neighbor because I don't like him, or to steal his money, I'm not basing my decision on my ability to care for a child. Abortion isn't the same thing as murdering another living breathing person. And the central holding of Dobbs is that the consitution gives the State the power to make the choice to try and carry a zygot to term, rather than give individuals the right to decide that for themselves. And that's why more than 70% of us think Dobbs is bullshit and the theocrats are nutters ... at best.

 

[kaz]

There are a number of unintended consequences of overturning Roe v Wade

• Requests for vasectomies and tubal ligation have increased significantly in the Abortion Banned states, as much as 900% in some areas.
• The morning after pill is running in short supply as women in banned states are buying up local supplies
• The FDA made shipment of abortions pills through the mail legal opening the way for mail order buying.
• Producers of the abortion pills are increasing inventories preparing for increased demand.
• 6 states have started funds to help the poor travel to states that offer abortion services
• Planned Parenthood now has a 300 million dollar fund to assist low income women get abortions
• Over 30 major corporations including Amazon, Starbucks, and Microsoft have announced they will pay for travel for employees and families to get an abortion.
• Doctors in the banned states report large numbers of requests for birth control pills, and other types of contraception.
• Interviews with women in banned states indicate women will begin paying more attentions to contraception and use the day after pill.

It is looking more like the the hundreds of thousands of unwanted babies birthed by women under threat of arrest will be far less than the right anticipated due to more attention to contraception, the day after pill, use of abortion pills, increased sterilization, and travel assistance to abortion clinics from a number of sources.

You literally don't know what "unintended consequences" means. Like for example you called it an unintended consequence that the FDA created a policy. That was obviously not "unintended," think about it. Most of the others were clearly foreseeable, at least the ones I read before I got bored and stopped reading them

 

[bendog]

You literally don't know what "unintended consequences" means. Like for example you called it an unintended consequence that the FDA created a policy. That was obviously not "unintended," think about it. Most of the others were clearly foreseeable, at least the ones I read before I got bored and stopped reading them

was this intended?

Doctors in Alabama Already Turn Away Miscarrying Patients. This Will Be Our New Normal Across the Country.

The state constitution already bans abortion. It’s a disaster for reproductive health care.

slate.com

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Many people, including me, think that deciding to have an abortion just because a person doesn't want a Downs child is immoral. But that's presupposing the person wanted a child to raise, but they think the added burden of Downs makes them not want THAT child. BUT, your post is a good illustration of my disagreement with Dobbs and why the Sup Ct just made a theocrat moral judgment for everyone.

The options would be a parent who didn't even want the kid had to "care" for it. That doesn't seem to be a warm and nurturing household there. Can a parent still place a Downs kid in state care? They go to school and have emotions and logic, what would the effect of knowing your parent considered you "a reject" be. Sometimes, there just isn't just one "good" answer and one "bad" answer to situations. People by definition are imperfect, and some just don't have as much love/empathy as others. An easier good/bad scenario would be a parent who has other kids, but didn't count on needing the additional emotional and financial resources that they just don't have for a Downs kid. Their decision may involve protecting the futures of the kids they already have.

But under Dobbs, the fetus actually has greater legal rights than the mother. A state can legally require a 10 year old to carry a rapist's child, possibly to term, and even die giving birth. The Dobbs' theocrats liken abortion to murder, but factually and logically it doesn't equate, and their decisions are based just on their personal morals.

IF I murder my neighbor because I don't like him, or to steal his money, I'm not basing my decision on my ability to care for a child. Abortion isn't the same thing as murdering another living breathing person. And the central holding of Dobbs is that the consitution gives the State the power to make the choice to try and carry a zygot to term, rather than give individuals the right to decide that for themselves. And that's why more than 70% of us think Dobbs is bullshit and the theocrats are nutters ... at best.

The case was about whether the US Constitution has protections for people that want abortion and nothing more. Unless you can point the word "abortion" in the document or give me a reliable source that abortion was even discussed during the writing then it's not protected. That's why it went back to the states.

SC judges don't base their vote on popularity, opinion, or morals. They base their vote on what the US Constitution says and the founders debates of it.

 

[bendog]

The case was about whether the US Constitution has protections for people that want abortion and nothing more. Unless you can point the word "abortion" in the document or give me a reliable source that abortion was even discussed during the writing then it's not protected. That's why it went back to the states.

SC judges don't base their vote on popularity, opinion, or morals. They base their vote on what the US Constitution says and the founders debates of it.

Well when the law's been there's a right to privacy for 50 years, and the 5 theocrats plus Gorsuch then change what the Court said the constitution says, and 70plus% say they don't agree .... the Court's based the law on its members morals/beliefs .... UNLESS THEY CAN POINT OUT WHY THE 70PLUS% DON'T GET IT.

and do you know you still have privacy rights to marry, have kids, contraception, to sodomy, to watch porn, terminate medical treatement, decide your kids' education?

Right to Privacy

Right to Privacy - Understand Right to Privacy, LAWS.COM - American Constitution 1789, its processes, and crucial LAWS.COM - American Constitution 1789 information needed.

constitution.laws.com

Good luck convincing the 70% that the Court just made a legal decision.

 

[TheParser]

The more abortions, the fewer violent predators on our streets.

Sure hope the pro-choice people win!!!

 

[Lastamender]

There are a number of unintended consequences of overturning Roe v Wade

• Requests for vasectomies and tubal ligation have increased significantly in the Abortion Banned states, as much as 900% in some areas.
• The morning after pill is running in short supply as women in banned states are buying up local supplies
• The FDA made shipment of abortions pills through the mail legal opening the way for mail order buying.
• Producers of the abortion pills are increasing inventories preparing for increased demand.
• 6 states have started funds to help the poor travel to states that offer abortion services
• Planned Parenthood now has a 300 million dollar fund to assist low income women get abortions
• Over 30 major corporations including Amazon, Starbucks, and Microsoft have announced they will pay for travel for employees and families to get an abortion.
• Doctors in the banned states report large numbers of requests for birth control pills, and other types of contraception.
• Interviews with women in banned states indicate women will begin paying more attentions to contraception and use the day after pill.

It is looking more like the the hundreds of thousands of unwanted babies birthed by women under threat of arrest will be far less than the right anticipated due to more attention to contraception, the day after pill, use of abortion pills, increased sterilization, and travel assistance to abortion clinics from a number of sources.

Anyone told you abortion has been banned is a liar. Your title sucks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I was just reading about down syndrome. 67% of women who are diagnosed with a fetus that has down syndrome end up having an abortion. As it is from 1979 to 2003 but down syndrome population has increased by 30%. States that have these abortion restrictions will have more births of down syndrome children. More people will give these babies up and turn them over to the state. Medical cost for down syndromes children between the ages of 0 to 4 years old are 12 times higher than regular children. The morbidity rate is a lot higher too. So, the end result will be these stupid States that have created these horrible abortion laws will become even stupider and poorer. They will also be straight so no one will want to visit. And a few hundred years from now you will be able to distinctly tell by looking at the people living there what their problem is.

Nothing would make me happier than to see people flee to their own political states. The problem is once the left ruins theirs, they come to our states and try to ruin ours, and then complain how we do things.

You people on the left have a terrible track record when it comes to predictions.

 

[Flopper]

I found this site and it's a bit confusing. Here is what it says about Alabama:

Restrictions on Abortion​

In Alabama, the following restrictions on abortion were in effect as of June 28, 2022:

• A patient must receive state-directed counseling that includes information designed to discourage the patient from having an abortion, and then wait 48 hours before the procedure is provided.
• Health plans offered in the state’s health exchange under the Affordable Care Act can only cover abortion in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
• The use of telemedicine to administer medication abortion is prohibited.
• The parent of a minor must consent before an abortion is provided.
• Public funding is available for abortion only in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
• A patient must undergo an ultrasound before obtaining an abortion; the provider must offer the patient the option to view the image.
• Abortion is banned, except in cases of life endangerment and health of the patient.
• The state requires abortion clinics to meet unnecessary and burdensome standards related to their physical plant, equipment and staffing.

What's confusing to me is it states abortions are banned except in cases where life endangerment or health are involved. Yet Commie Care is allowed to cover rape and incest pregnancies. It also says public funding is available for the same. More confusing is that it states a parent must consent for a minor to have an abortion. Okay, so if all abortions are banned, why do they have these provisions including rape and a minor wanting to get an abortion?

State Facts About Abortion

Each year, a broad cross section of U.S. women have abortions. This series of fact sheets provides data on the incidence of abortion as well as abortion service provision at the state level. Click below to see a selected state's fact sheet

www.guttmacher.org

The law seems to be a complete mess. For example:

Committing an abortion is charged as a Class A felony (punishable by up to 99 years in prison)

However:

There is no criminal or civil liability for women who choose to have an abortion in violation of state law.

So if a women receives abortions pills and instructions from a doctor in an abortion clinic In Colorado where abortions are legal and the woman takes the pills as directed in Alabama is she liable or is the Doctor in Colorado liable? Or is neither liable. In other words, who is committing the abortion?

Here's another interesting point. Suppose a court in Alabama issues a felony warrant for the Doctor's arrest for the abortion which took place in Alabama but the doctor has never been in Alabama. Would this warrant be legal?

If so, the state that issued the arrest warrant, Alabama cannot cross state borders and arrest the doctor in Colorado. So can the state of Colorado be forced to find the doctor, arrest, and hold him for transfer to Alabama?

 

[Flopper]

Anyone told you abortion has been banned is a liar. Your title sucks.

I think in the discussions we are having today about abortion, one would assume that abortion being banned means the state has made committing an abortion illegal except under certain circumstances specified in the law.