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Understanding The Book of Revelation from a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint perspective

DudleySmith

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In the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John is shown a vision of a book that is sealed on its backside with seven seals. Nobody but the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, was able to open the book and loose the seven seals. Chapter six tells of what is contained in the book as each seal is opened. In these latter-days the Prophet Joseph Smith received revelation telling us what the book and its seven seals represent:

Doctrine and Covenants 77:6-7
6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals? A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed? A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

From the above verses, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that the temporal existence of the earth will last 7000 years. This means that from the fall of Adam and Eve until the end of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ, will be 7000 years. We believe that this patterns the temporal existence of the earth similar to the seven periods of creation. We believe that each of the seven seals on the backside of the book represent each of the consecutive 1000 year periods of the earth's temporal existence. The seventh seal represents the seventh thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence or the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. It is like a sabbath of the earth's temporal existence. Thus the opening of the book in Revelation 6-7 gives us a summation of the earth during its first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth thousand year periods. The following chapters of the Book of Revelation, excepting chapter 12, tells us of the events of the seventh thousand year period of this earth's temporal existence and of the earth being changed to a celestial sphere

To Joseph Smith, it was also revealed that the events of chapter 7 were to occur in the sixth seal or the sixth thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence:

Doctrine and Covenants 77:9-11
9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse? A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.

10 Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished? A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.

11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe? A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

It is my personal belief that we are currently living in the last days of the sixth seal or six thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence. The Lord Jesus is to come again on the earth after the opening of the seventh seal. It is my personal belief that the sixth seal will end around 2033 or 2034. More on this in a subsequent post.

Stone granaries in Jordan are 14,000 years old and monuments in Saudi Arabia are 8,000 years old. Cave paintings in France are 30,000 years old.

It all depends on who one talks to and exactly what they are basing their dates upon. And it is MOST likely that a world wide flood would have corrupted the evidence and thrown any dating measurements out of wack. But then who what to believe a WORLD WIDE FLOOD happened?

Oldest known granaries found near Dead Sea​

By THOMAS H. MAUGH II
JUNE 27, 2009 12 AM PT
More than 1,000 years before humans began domesticating grains for food, they were building sophisticated storage buildings to hold the wild grains they were cultivating, researchers reported Monday.
Collecting large quantities of grains and other foods is a prerequisite to establishing sizable communities, but such collection requires a system to store the perishables so they can be kept for months at least. The new find reported in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences represents the oldest known storage system or granary to date -- about 11,300 years old.
The earliest known domestication of cereal grains was thought to have occurred about 10,500 years ago.
Four granaries were discovered in the settlement of Dhra’ near the Dead Sea in what is now Jordan by archaeologists Ian Kuijt of the University of Notre Dame and Bill Finlayson of the Council for British Research in the Levant in Amman, Jordan. The granaries were among 10 buildings found at the village, which was occupied for about 100 years. The other buildings appear to have been used as dwellings and food processing sites.

The oval buildings, about 9 feet in diameter and 9 feet high, had mud floors and walls of stone and mud bricks.
The best preserved granary shows unusually sophisticated engineering. Notched stones set upright in the floor of the building, about 1 to 1 1/2 feet high, presumably supported wooden beams, which spanned the structure. These beams were then covered with plants and mud to create a raised floor that enabled air to circulate through the stored grains, keeping them dry. The raised floor also protected the food from rodents.
Dating indicates that the original granary was used for about 50 years, then a second granary was built on its remains and also used for half a century. Traces of wild barley were found in the building.
The granaries were presumably shared by the entire village. The communal sharing did not persist, however. Excavations at later sites in the region show that storage shifted to individual dwellings.

“The most important implication of our findings,” the scientists wrote, “is that fundamental social changes occurred before plant domestication, including the establishment of fairly permanent settlements with communal labor and storage, based on cultivated wild plants.”

There was no world wide flood. The Hebrews borrowed that story from Babylon when they were in exile.
Yes, there was a World Wide Flood. The entire planet has gone through so much that it aged drastically as a result (which confuses research that fails to incorporate this historic event). And the Babylonian Epic was simply a written story formulated from an even earlier oral tradition. GOD gave to Moses the truth, weeding out all the nonsense and leaving the historical meat of the story. Moses was raised as the son of an Egyptian princess and therefore had been exposed to all the various traditions that existed in the royal libraries.

There is NO world wide footprint of flood sediment. Many places on earth were never flooded.

The flood is taken from a Sumerian story about a 4 day flood of the Euphrates River Basin that was caused by Spring snowmelt from the Zagros Mountains combined with Spring rains in 2900 BC . The flood
footprint is 150 miles wide and 300 miles south to the Persian Gulf.

A king of Sumer was hauling grain, beer and livestock downriver on barges that broke loose and ended up in the Persian Gulf at Bahrain.
Just because something is submerged doesn't mean that there will be sediment. Often bedrock is exposed where the surface has been stripped away.

Please consider the following essay: Geological Evidences for a Flood

They had reasons for believing there was a 'world wide flood'; as migrating peoples and tribes, they were finding sea fossils high up on mountains and the like; even the Himalayas have sea fossils at high elevations. In any event the ancient Hebrew 'world' was pretty small,and their beliefs were written for themselves, not 'Everybody Else'.

Tectonic plates account for seashells at altitude. The Himalayas are still getting taller. There are seashells on the Western escarpment in Arabia.

You're right about the Hebrew world being small.

Modern people know that; ancients didn't, so what is your point?
 
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onefour1

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So where are we now in this 7000 year temporal existence of this earth? There are some who believe that the seventh seal has already opened and that we are extremely close to the coming of our Lord and Savior. The rationale behind this train of thought is that some of the genealogies and histories seem to take us back 4000 years to Adam and Eve before the coming of Christ's earthly ministry. Since Christ has come it is believed also that 2000 years has already transpired since his coming and therefore we are in the seven thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence. Those who believe this train of thought also believe that Christ's earthly ministry occurred after the opening of the 5th seal. I have followed this way of thinking and find that there are prophesies that I believe should have occurred in the sixth seal that have not yet occurred and therefore I believe the sixth seal is still going on and the seventh seal has not yet been opened. One prophecy that should occur in the sixth seal that has not yet come to pass is the sealing of the 144,000 as mentioned in the seventh chapter of Revelation and is to occur in sixth seal according to Doctrine and Covenants 77 as mentioned in an earlier post. In order for this prophesy to be fulfilled the lost tribes of Israel would need to return to Zion (America) and be sealed under the hands of the children of Ephraim. So far this has not yet occurred and so the sixth seal cannot yet have come to an end. My personal belief is that Jesus performed his entire earthly ministry during the 4th seal and then his Apostles were martyred during the 5th seal.

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

I suspect that the Lord performed his entire earthly mission in the 4th seal because I believe the 4th seal to be the meridian of time. Latter-day scripture tells us that Enoch learned when the coming of the Lord and his eventual atonement would be and it was told him that it would come in the meridian of time.

Moses 6:62
62 And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time.

Moses 7:45-46
45 And it came to pass that Enoch looked; and from Noah, he beheld all the families of the earth; and he cried unto the Lord, saying: When shall the day of the Lord come? When shall the blood of the Righteous be shed, that all they that mourn may be sanctified and have eternal life?
46 And the Lord said: It shall be in the meridian of time, in the days of wickedness and vengeance.

According to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, the term "Meridian of time" has the following meaning:

Meridian of Time
Author: Burton, Marshall T.

The meridian of time has been defined by one LDS apostle as "the middle or high point of that portion of eternity which is considered to be mortal time" (MD, 1966, p. 486). It is the dispensation in which Jesus Christ lived in mortality. The term does not occur in the Bible, but is found in the Doctrine and Covenants (20:26;39:3) and in the Book of Moses (5:57;6:57, 62;7:46).

The word "meridian" suggests the middle. According to Old Testament genealogies, from the Fall of Adam to the time of Jesus Christ was approximately 4,000 years. It has been nearly 2,000 years since Jesus' birth. The millennial reign will commence "in the beginning of the seventh thousand years" (D&C 77:12). After the Millennium there will be a "little season," the exact length of which is not revealed, but it could be several hundred years. In the context of these events, the Lord's mortal ministry took place near the meridian, or middle, of mortal time (DS 1:81).

The meridian of time may also be seen as the high point of mortal time. Latter-day revelation shows that all of the ancient prophets looked forward to the Messiah's coming (Jacob 4:4; Mosiah 13:33-35;15:11). His coming fulfilled their prophecies, and he was prefigured in the Law of Moses (Mosiah 13:29-32) and in ancient ceremonial ordinances (Moses 5:5-8). The meridian of time is the apex of all dispensations because of the birth, ministry, and Atonement of Christ. Without him all prophetic writings and utterances would have had no efficacy, and the hopes of mankind today and forever would be but futile desires and yearnings without possibility of fulfillment. MARSHALL T. BURTON

My suspicion is that since the meridian of time is the middle time, I suspect that Jesus came and spent his entire ministry during the 4th seal since it is the middle time of the 7000 years of the earth's temporal existence. My personal belief is that Jesus lived at the very end of the 4th seal and that he died and was resurrected on the 4000th year of this earth's temporal existence. That is just my personal hunch. From my personal studies I believe Jesus' death and resurrection occurred in 33 A.D. so I believe 33 A.D. was the 4000th year of this earth's temporal existence. If my hunches are right, then I believe that 1033 was the end of the 5th seal and 2033 will be the end of the sixth seal. Thus I believe that in the year 2034, the 7th seal will open. If the prophecy of the return of the lost tribes above does not occur by then, I will know that my suspicions are wrong. But these suspicions are just my personal thoughts on the subject and not that of the church.
 

norwegen

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Approaching a book from a perspective that emerged centuries after the book's composition is not the way to understand the book.

The way to understand Revelation is to approach it from a late first-century Hebrew Christian perspective.
 

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I have never understood why the guys who chose what to put in the bible included Revelation. It's a mystery.

THE MAKING OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
THE
HOME UNIVERSITY LIBRARY
OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE

Editors of
THE HOME UNIVERSITY LIBRARY
OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE
Rt. Hon. H. A. L. Fisher, M.A., F.B.A.
Prof. Gilbert Murray, Litt.D., LL.D., F.B.A.
Prof. J. Arthur Thomson, M.A., LL.D.

By

BENJAMIN W. BACON D.D.

PROFESSOR OF NEW CRITICISM AND

EXEGESIS IN YALE UNIVERSITY

Page 190 :​

However, the one great example of this type of literature that has been (somewhat reluctantly) permitted to retain a place in the New Testament canon appears at first blush to be clearly and distinctively a product of Ephesus. Of no book has early tradition so clear and definite a pronouncement to make as of Revelation. Since the time of Paul the Jewish ideas of resurrection provoked opposition in the Greek mind. The Greek readily accepted immortality, but the crudity of Jewish millenarianism, with its return of the[Pg 190] dead from the grave for a visible, concrete rule of Messiah in Palestine repelled him. The representation of Acts xvii. 32 is fully borne out by the constant effort of Paul in his Greek epistles to remove the stumbling-blocks of this doctrine. It is no surprise, then, to find the 'prophecy' of Revelation, and more particularly its doctrine of the thousand-year reign of Messiah in Jerusalem, a subject of dispute at least since Melito of Sardis (167), and probably since Papias (145). Fortunately controversy brought out with unusual definiteness, and from the earliest times, positive statements regarding the origin of the book. Irenæus (186) declared it a work of the Apostle John given him in vision "in the end of the reign of Domitian." The same date (93), may be deduced from statements of Epiphanius regarding the history of the church in Thyatira. Justin Martyr (153), as we have seen, vouches for the crucial passage (Rev. xx. 2 f.) as from "one of ourselves, John, an apostle of the Lord." Papias (145) vouched for its orthodoxy at least, if not its authenticity. There can be no reasonable doubt that it came to be accepted in Asia early in the second century, in spite of opposition, as representing the authority of the Apostle John, and as having appeared there c. 95. In fact, there is no book of the entire New Testament whose external attestation can compare with that of Revelation, in nearness, clearness, definiteness, and positiveness of[Pg 191] statement. John is as distinctively the father of 'prophecy' in second century tradition as Matthew of 'Dominical Precepts' and Peter of 'Narratives.'

The Making Of The New Testament By Benjamin W. Bacon D.D. A Project Gutenberg eBook
 
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surada

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Did you actually read your link? In Judaism Daniel is not considered a prophet, but an historian. Daniel was NOT written by one man. The writers used the Ugaritic text Dan'el which is 1500 years older as the setting for the narrative.
In "Judaism" JESUS cannot be their MESSIAH. If they are so very wrong in one thing, why not two or three. Non-Messianic Jews spend so much of their Biblical interpretations denying CHRIST, that it must be concluded that they in fact willingly go to any lengths to deny JESUS ----- including misinterpreting passages that point unequivocally at HIM.

The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
 

surada

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Did you actually read your link? In Judaism Daniel is not considered a prophet, but an historian. Daniel was NOT written by one man. The writers used the Ugaritic text Dan'el which is 1500 years older as the setting for the narrative.

None of which anybody cares about, since it is the age of the book that is in question, not how you can spin bullshit in your lying about biblical issues and Christianity and Judasim.

Daniel was written in 168-164 BC about Atiochus IV Epiphanes and the Maccabbean Revolt. Antiochus was hell bent to Hellenize the Jews with pig sacrifices in the Temple, forbidding circumcision and errecting a statue to Zeus in the Temple . That was the first Abomidation of Desolation. That is historical not fancy.

An Abomination in the Temple​

“When you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains” (v. 14).
- Mark 13:14–20
In 168 BC, the Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes invaded Jerusalem and captured the city. He marched into the Jewish temple, erected a statue of the Greek god Zeus, and sacrificed a pig on the altar of incense. This provoked a revolt in Judea as the Jews fought to remove Antiochus’ sacrilege from the temple. Under the leadership of the Maccabees, the Jews drove Antiochus and his army out, and the Jews gained control of their land for about one hundred years until Pompey, an acclaimed Roman general, captured the Holy Land and brought it under Roman rule.
Many ancient Jews viewed the actions of Antiochus Epiphanes as the fulfillment of Daniel 9:27, which says, “On the wing of abomina tions shall come one who makes desolate.” However, the time frame in verses 24–27 begins with the decree of Cyrus that sent the Jews back to their land after the exile (Ezra 1). This makes it impossible that Daniel’s prophecy refers to Antiochus Epiphanes. The year 186 BC was far too early to fit the prophecy.
Now please consider: What Is the ‘Abomination of Desolation’?

Where did you get 186 BC from?
 

norwegen

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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.​

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.
 

surada

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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.​

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
 

norwegen

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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
At any rate, Antiochus IV didn't accomplish all the things that Daniel envisioned. Jesus did.

And obviously this "historian" was not incapable of interpreting dreams of things to come. Daniel was among men of note and prophets who conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, and put foreign armies to flight (Heb 11:33-34).

You may believe what you wish. But Christians see Christ as the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets, i.e., as the fulfilment of the Temple Age.
 

surada

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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..
At any rate, Antiochus IV didn't accomplish all the things that Daniel envisioned. Jesus did.

And obviously this "historian" was not incapable of interpreting dreams of things to come. Daniel was among men of note and prophets who conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, and put foreign armies to flight (Heb 11:33-34).

You may believe what you wish. But Christians see Christ as the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets, i.e., as the fulfilment of the Temple Age.

Antiochus defiled the Temple, forbid circumcision, put up a statue to Zeus and sacrificed swine.

Foreign armies served under Titus because it was a quick path to Roman citizenship.
 
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onefour1

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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..

Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:

Mark 13:14

14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:

Matthew 24:15

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
 
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onefour1

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Revelation 8-11 give us the events that will occur after the 7th seal opens up until the time that Jesus comes in his glory. According to Revelation 8, once the 7th seal is opened there will be silence in heaven for the space of about a half an hour. Since John saw this occurring in heaven, it is likely this is not a half an hour according to our time but a half an hour according to God's time. If a day unto the Lord is 1000 of our years as the Apostle Peter tells us, then a half an hour would be approximately 21 years of our time (1000 year day divided by 48 half hours per day equals 20.8333 years per half hour.) If God remains silent in heaven during this time, then no Godly events are likely to occur during this time on earth. However, wickedness will likely increase during this time. According to my 2034 seventh seal opening, this would bring us to the end of year 2054. At this point the seven angels begin to blow their trumpets and the seven plagues are poured out upon the earth. The last 3 of these are known as the 3 woes. The very last woe will be when the Lord comes and destroys the wicked from off the face of the earth. How long these 7 last plagues will take is anyone's guess. But during the 6th plague and 2nd woe, we will see two prophets raised up to the Jewish nation that will have great power to do many miracles. Their time of their ministry will be 3.5 years and then they will be allowed to be killed. Their dead bodies will lay in the street for 3.5 days and then the Lord's coming will be upon us and their dead bodies will rise from the dead and be caught up in the clouds to meet our Savior at his coming.

If the sixth plague lasts for 3.5 years and if this be typical for each of the 5 plagues before it, then the whole time frame of the six plagues will be about 21 years. The seventh plague and final woe of the 3 woes will be the coming of our Lord to destroy the wicked. This would take us up to 2075 or later under my timeline. So this could all take place in the next 54 years or so. My personal belief is that my grandchildren, if they live a long life, will see the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..

Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:

Mark 13:14

14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:

Matthew 24:15

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Daniel wrote about Antiochus IV as the first Abomination of Desolation. Jesus and Matthew are referencing Daniel.

Mark 13:14
14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This time when you see the Abominton of Desolation as spoken of in Daniel, flee Jerusalem to the mountains (and avoid the tribulation)

They were two seperate events..
 
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onefour1

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And Jesus, Mark and Matthew are calling Daniel, "Daniel the prophet". My point was that Christ himself saw Daniel to be a prophet, why do you say that he was not? Are you saying that Daniel never prophesied?
 
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Colin norris

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In the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John is shown a vision of a book that is sealed on its backside with seven seals. Nobody but the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, was able to open the book and loose the seven seals. Chapter six tells of what is contained in the book as each seal is opened. In these latter-days the Prophet Joseph Smith received revelation telling us what the book and its seven seals represent:

Doctrine and Covenants 77:6-7
6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals? A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed? A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

From the above verses, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that the temporal existence of the earth will last 7000 years. This means that from the fall of Adam and Eve until the end of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ, will be 7000 years. We believe that this patterns the temporal existence of the earth similar to the seven periods of creation. We believe that each of the seven seals on the backside of the book represent each of the consecutive 1000 year periods of the earth's temporal existence. The seventh seal represents the seventh thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence or the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. It is like a sabbath of the earth's temporal existence. Thus the opening of the book in Revelation 6-7 gives us a summation of the earth during its first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth thousand year periods. The following chapters of the Book of Revelation, excepting chapter 12, tells us of the events of the seventh thousand year period of this earth's temporal existence and of the earth being changed to a celestial sphere

To Joseph Smith, it was also revealed that the events of chapter 7 were to occur in the sixth seal or the sixth thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence:

Doctrine and Covenants 77:9-11
9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse? A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.

10 Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished? A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.

11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe? A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

It is my personal belief that we are currently living in the last days of the sixth seal or six thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence. The Lord Jesus is to come again on the earth after the opening of the seventh seal. It is my personal belief that the sixth seal will end around 2033 or 2034. More on this in a subsequent post.

Considering the Mormon religion is only 400 years old, it's relevance to anything before it is BS. Its been plagiarized from many religions and they are all equally as false as the next. So all these wonderful events you described are pure BS.
Furthermore, the apostles who supposed to have jotted down all these stunning events were illiterate, as was Jesus. The bible from which it seems everything is quoted was written approximately 60 years after JC supposedly was crucified. In that time anything could have been added to flourish to story so it's BS also.
 

surada

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The expected Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus doesn't fit that description in any way.

There isn't a single reference to Jesus in the old testament unless you fiddle with scripture which Christians do.
The Old Testament doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth by name, but certain prophecies were fulfilled only by Jesus. Daniel 9, for example, mentions some:

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

This passage lists six prophecies for Israel’s Messiah to fulfill: to finish the transgression, conquer sin, atone for iniquity, bring everlasting righteousness, seal all future visions, and bless and anoint a majestic new most holy place. These things happened with Jesus.

And the kingdom came with Jesus, Daniel's rock built by no human hand that would fill the earth (2:34-35). As it turned out, no one fulfilled these prophecies except Jesus the Nazarene.


Yes, the holy people pined for a warrior king to deliver them from their foreign overlords. This idolatrous people were prone to blaming others for their own iniquity, but Jesus put the blame on them and ended their reign without drawing any blood except his own. He was not the messiah they expected, so they had him killed.

Except Daniel was NOT a prophet, but a historian writing about Antiochus IV..

Jesus Christ believed that Daniel was certainly a prophet:

Mark 13:14

14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:

Matthew 24:15

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Antiochus defiled the Temple and made it desolate so temple sacrifices were abandoned until the temple could be cleansed and rededicated.

Jesus is saying, "remember the abomination of desolation as written about in Daniel. Its coming again. When it does flee to the mountains."
 

surada

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And Jesus, Mark and Matthew are calling Daniel, "Daniel the prophet". My point was that Christ himself saw Daniel to be a prophet, why do you say that he was not? Are you saying that Daniel never prophesied?

You misunderstand Jesus' reference to the first Abomination of Desolation which was brought to us by Antiochus IV (God Manifest). Daniel is an historian. He lived and wrote during the time of the Greek Antiochus IV and the Maccabbean Revolt. He is not considered a prophet in Judiasm or by serious Bible scholars.
 

Penelope

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And Jesus, Mark and Matthew are calling Daniel, "Daniel the prophet". My point was that Christ himself saw Daniel to be a prophet, why do you say that he was not? Are you saying that Daniel never prophesied?

You misunderstand Jesus' reference to the first Abomination of Desolation which was brought to us by Antiochus IV (God Manifest). Daniel is an historian. He lived and wrote during the time of the Greek Antiochus IV and the Maccabbean Revolt. He is not considered a prophet in Judiasm or by serious Bible scholars.
The book's influence has resonated through later ages, from the community of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the authors of the gospels and of Revelation, to various movements from the 2nd century to the Protestant Reformation and modern millennialist movements—on which it continues to have a profound influence.[7]

---------------------Protestants don't have 1 Mac or 2 Mac
and they don't have all of Daniel in it.
 

surada

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And Jesus, Mark and Matthew are calling Daniel, "Daniel the prophet". My point was that Christ himself saw Daniel to be a prophet, why do you say that he was not? Are you saying that Daniel never prophesied?

You misunderstand Jesus' reference to the first Abomination of Desolation which was brought to us by Antiochus IV (God Manifest). Daniel is an historian. He lived and wrote during the time of the Greek Antiochus IV and the Maccabbean Revolt. He is not considered a prophet in Judiasm or by serious Bible scholars.
The book's influence has resonated through later ages, from the community of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the authors of the gospels and of Revelation, to various movements from the 2nd century to the Protestant Reformation and modern millennialist movements—on which it continues to have a profound influence.[7]

---------------------Protestants don't have 1 Mac or 2 Mac
and they don't have all of Daniel in it.

David Koresh studied Daniel and never knew it was written in 168-164 BC. Look at the damage he did withe his futuristic crap.
 

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