Understanding Christianity

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Water covering the tops of mountains is just a little hyperbole that tries to convey the magnitude of the partial extinction event. In scripture "the mountains of Israel" also refers to the big shots of the community. Therefore, water covering their highest mountain could also indicate that all the well heeled big shots drowned. 10 feet of water would have done the trick, especially among desert dwellers who probably couldn't swim for a minute much less a month.. They really didn't need to exaggerate much.

That remains your own interpretation. No one knows what Noah saw to tell that it's actually a hyperbole.

Everyone knows that there isn't enough water on the planet to cover the top of any mountain in a flood..

It can only be figurative or hyperbole.

No. Again, you assume wrong. Humans don't know all kinds of catastrophe. It can be something wiping out the earth in a period of time we can't evaluate. You don't need to assume that the 'flood' covers all mountains of earth at the same time. It can cover one mountain at a time till the whole earth with everything in is destroyed.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.


The story is either about something else, a hidden teaching loosely based on actual events, , or it is all complete bullshit (the nature of gravity is beyond humans to know anyway).

I go for the hidden teaching. These same scripture use mountains as a metaphor for people, just like some people and their influence loom over the human landscape like an immovable mountain..

This is a verifiable fact.

In the same way the prophecies about mountains crumbling, valleys being lifted up, and stars being removed from their high places and falling from the sky are prophecies about social upheaval and change.

Not cosmic catastrophe.


When Jesus said that a person can move mountains with a few words if he had the faith, wouldn't it be irrational, even insane, to believe that he was speaking literally?

You overrated how things can be verified. Absolute no one can confirm that Ararat can't be covered by water in the past million years.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.

The above is truly laughable. Do you realize how large our ocean is? It covers 70% of planet earth. It depends on whether a kind of catastrophe can swirl them up to cover a mountain, if you are willing to stay off gravity a little bit (the nature of gravity is never made known to humans anyway).

Your argument is goofy. MountArarat would have still been a mountain during the flood myth. And no, there is not enough water on the planet to submerge it.

 

[Boss]

That remains your own interpretation. No one knows what Noah saw to tell that it's actually a hyperbole.

Everyone knows that there isn't enough water on the planet to cover the top of any mountain in a flood..

It can only be figurative or hyperbole.

No. Again, you assume wrong. Humans don't know all kinds of catastrophe. It can be something wiping out the earth in a period of time we can't evaluate. You don't need to assume that the 'flood' covers all mountains of earth at the same time. It can cover one mountain at a time till the whole earth with everything in is destroyed.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.


The story is either about something else, a hidden teaching loosely based on actual events, , or it is all complete bullshit (the nature of gravity is beyond humans to know anyway).

I go for the hidden teaching. These same scripture use mountains as a metaphor for people, just like some people and their influence loom over the human landscape like an immovable mountain..

This is a verifiable fact.

In the same way the prophecies about mountains crumbling, valleys being lifted up, and stars being removed from their high places and falling from the sky are prophecies about social upheaval and change.

Not cosmic catastrophe.


When Jesus said that a person can move mountains with a few words if he had the faith, wouldn't it be irrational, even insane, to believe that he was speaking literally?

You overrated how things can be verified. Absolute no one can confirm that Ararat can't be covered by water in the past million years.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.

The above is truly laughable. Do you realize how large our ocean is? It covers 70% of planet earth. It depends on whether a kind of catastrophe can swirl them up to cover a mountain, if you are willing to stay off gravity a little bit (the nature of gravity is never made known to humans anyway).

Your argument is goofy. MountArarat would have still been a mountain during the flood myth. And no, there is not enough water on the planet to submerge it.

Where is it stated that Ararat was submerged?

 

[MarkDuffy]

Considering Jesus upset the apple cart in the Jewish Temple, what would he say about trump calling NFL players sons of bitches for protesting?

Was Jesus a son of a *****?

I'm trying to understand why so-called Christians claim trump is a Christian, but Hillary is not.

Make me understand Christianity, the religion of love

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Everyone knows that there isn't enough water on the planet to cover the top of any mountain in a flood..

It can only be figurative or hyperbole.

No. Again, you assume wrong. Humans don't know all kinds of catastrophe. It can be something wiping out the earth in a period of time we can't evaluate. You don't need to assume that the 'flood' covers all mountains of earth at the same time. It can cover one mountain at a time till the whole earth with everything in is destroyed.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.


The story is either about something else, a hidden teaching loosely based on actual events, , or it is all complete bullshit (the nature of gravity is beyond humans to know anyway).

I go for the hidden teaching. These same scripture use mountains as a metaphor for people, just like some people and their influence loom over the human landscape like an immovable mountain..

This is a verifiable fact.

In the same way the prophecies about mountains crumbling, valleys being lifted up, and stars being removed from their high places and falling from the sky are prophecies about social upheaval and change.

Not cosmic catastrophe.


When Jesus said that a person can move mountains with a few words if he had the faith, wouldn't it be irrational, even insane, to believe that he was speaking literally?

You overrated how things can be verified. Absolute no one can confirm that Ararat can't be covered by water in the past million years.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.

The above is truly laughable. Do you realize how large our ocean is? It covers 70% of planet earth. It depends on whether a kind of catastrophe can swirl them up to cover a mountain, if you are willing to stay off gravity a little bit (the nature of gravity is never made known to humans anyway).

Your argument is goofy. MountArarat would have still been a mountain during the flood myth. And no, there is not enough water on the planet to submerge it.

Where is it stated that Ararat was submerged?

Everyone knows that there isn't enough water on the planet to cover the top of any mountain in a flood..

It can only be figurative or hyperbole.

No. Again, you assume wrong. Humans don't know all kinds of catastrophe. It can be something wiping out the earth in a period of time we can't evaluate. You don't need to assume that the 'flood' covers all mountains of earth at the same time. It can cover one mountain at a time till the whole earth with everything in is destroyed.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.


The story is either about something else, a hidden teaching loosely based on actual events, , or it is all complete bullshit (the nature of gravity is beyond humans to know anyway).

I go for the hidden teaching. These same scripture use mountains as a metaphor for people, just like some people and their influence loom over the human landscape like an immovable mountain..

This is a verifiable fact.

In the same way the prophecies about mountains crumbling, valleys being lifted up, and stars being removed from their high places and falling from the sky are prophecies about social upheaval and change.

Not cosmic catastrophe.


When Jesus said that a person can move mountains with a few words if he had the faith, wouldn't it be irrational, even insane, to believe that he was speaking literally?

You overrated how things can be verified. Absolute no one can confirm that Ararat can't be covered by water in the past million years.

It is impossible for mt Ararat to be covered with water under any condition at any time given the topography and the finite amount of water on the earth.

The above is truly laughable. Do you realize how large our ocean is? It covers 70% of planet earth. It depends on whether a kind of catastrophe can swirl them up to cover a mountain, if you are willing to stay off gravity a little bit (the nature of gravity is never made known to humans anyway).

Your argument is goofy. MountArarat would have still been a mountain during the flood myth. And no, there is not enough water on the planet to submerge it.

Where is it stated that Ararat was submerged?

On every goofball YEC site on the internet

 

[Boss]

On every goofball YEC site on the internet

Really? Well, I'll have to defer to your expertise on the matter because I don't frequent goofball YEC sites on the internet... better things to do with my time, to be honest, but if that's your bag man, whatever. I would suggest you ask them where it's written in the scriptures that Ararat was submerged and if that was the case, how did the Ark come to rest there? Seems it should've floated right on over it.

I guess you must not be smart enough to handle debates with goofball YEC types or you'd have thought of that yourself, huh?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

On every goofball YEC site on the internet

Really? Well, I'll have to defer to your expertise on the matter because I don't frequent goofball YEC sites on the internet... better things to do with my time, to be honest, but if that's your bag man, whatever. I would suggest you ask them where it's written in the scriptures that Ararat was submerged and if that was the case, how did the Ark come to rest there? Seems it should've floated right on over it.

I guess you must not be smart enough to handle debates with goofball YEC types or you'd have thought of that yourself, huh?

I was not under the impression they were arguing that it was totally underwater, just almost all of it.. What's with the attitude? Twice now you have said things that are incorrect (re: belief in immaculate conception and Ararat being submerged), and you found a way to get upset with me about it.

Yes, there are pseudo-scientists lying about Mount Ararat. It's one of their canards.

 

[Bonzi]

Considering Jesus upset the apple cart in the Jewish Temple, what would he say about trump calling NFL players sons of bitches for protesting?

Was Jesus a son of a *****?

I'm trying to understand why so-called Christians claim trump is a Christian, but Hillary is not.

Make me understand Christianity, the religion of love

Jesus would want all that we do to be in God honoring. Ironically, Jesus hates hypocrisy, which many of his followers are accused of (and most likely guilty of) regularly.

Christianity as was modeled be Jesus himself is the religion of love. How well it is being carried out and practiced is another question

 

[The Irish Ram]

It's kind of humorous if you think about it. Oh we found out God isn't the cause of this event, it is because of this. And the religious folks will say, because god. God is behind everything that happens is what they think. Every new thing we discover that obliterates something that the Bible has taught, they have an excuse for. Lol.

There is nothing on this earth that obliterates the word of God. No thing. What "new" thing are you talking about?? Hawking woke up and found 10 dimensions.> That God created and told us all about, thousands of years before Hawking came into being. We didn't create Physics. We discovered Physics. There were "Physics" before there were humans to discover it. The information encoded in DNA was there long before we even knew there was DNA. Just because we discover something, by no means does that make the discovery a human attribute.
If we discover something it is because God was there first..

The Irish Ram

"There is nothing on this earth that obliterates the word of god ".

Except phony christians. ^^^

If I believed in your invisible friend, the vicious, evil fundie nutters assign themselves off as Christians these days would make me believe in the devil.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Christianity isn't for everyone. Feel free to judge as harshly as you wish....

 

[The Irish Ram]

If you call those who follow Christ hypocrites or phony because of their behavior, then you don't understand Christianity.
Christ was perfect. His followers are not. Hence the reason for Christ's visit.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Not magic. Biology.
He is also responsible for Physics, that our mathematicians keep discovering.
The dimensions our scientists think they have found..
Funny thing about those dimensions, God said that we should know He exists by reading Genesis.
Maimonides took Him up on it and discovered that there are at least 10 dimensions. 4 seen, 6 unseen. That man died in 1204.
Speed ahead to the 20th century where our brightest and best scientists have concluded that there are at least 10 dimensions. 4 seen, 6 unseen. And I loved this. Science thinks those six may be rolled up or something.
God said that dimensions can be burned up, torn, rolled up.
Who knew....

God didn't write the bible so god said absolutely nothing.

God did write the Bible. We know that because man can not predict the future. God, can and did. To the Jews captivity, to the duration of the captivity, to a one world order that we see being formed today.

Men wrote the bible and Nostradamus also predicted the future. An invisible guy didn't do anything.

Then you could write in the same manner. What is the score of the next Super Bowl game going to be? How did Isaiah know that 100 years into the future would be a King named Cyrus? And what Impact that King would have on the Jews and the Jews Temple? Who will be president of Mexico 100 years from now? If Isaiah could do it, you can too.
Then compile your genealogy for me using only 7's and multiple of 7's in your biographies, and limit the vowels and consonants to 7 or multiples of 7. < If you get that far, let me know and I will give you the other 21 restrictions the Holy Spirit used to reveal the genealogy of Christ. It doesn't work to just ignore the facts and keep saying, "nuh a"...

So, tell me what charlatan you think wrote the Bible, and when he or she published his work.

Men still wrote the bible, no invisible person was involved. And you have yet to present any such proof.

And yet, whomever you think wrote the Bible is exactly that. Invisible. You can't give me his name, or when his work was published.
But you have a bigger mystery to solve. How did Mr. Ghost Writer find the Dead Sea Scrolls, destroy them, and replace them with his own work, using ancient parchment and ink?
The ones that were discovered prove the books of the Bible were written before 70 AD. Those scrolls are the biggest problem with your belief. So, riddle me that, and then we'll talk..

 

[Boss]

On every goofball YEC site on the internet

Really? Well, I'll have to defer to your expertise on the matter because I don't frequent goofball YEC sites on the internet... better things to do with my time, to be honest, but if that's your bag man, whatever. I would suggest you ask them where it's written in the scriptures that Ararat was submerged and if that was the case, how did the Ark come to rest there? Seems it should've floated right on over it.

I guess you must not be smart enough to handle debates with goofball YEC types or you'd have thought of that yourself, huh?

I was not under the impression they were arguing that it was totally underwater, just almost all of it.. What's with the attitude? Twice now you have said things that are incorrect (re: belief in immaculate conception and Ararat being submerged), and you found a way to get upset with me about it.

Yes, there are pseudo-scientists lying about Mount Ararat. It's one of their canards.

You claimed they said it was submerged and that was your entire argument, that it was impossible for it to be totally submerged. Now you're changing your tune and claiming something different. I don't think I've said anything incorrectly. I haven't mentioned immaculate conception. I asked you where it is stated that Ararat was submerged and you couldn't explain. Instead, you backpedalled and tried to argue "just almost all of it" which is ambiguous at best.

Many Biblical scholars aren't certain that Ararat is even a definitive location of where the Ark landed. The scriptures are unclear as to a precise location and it can be interpreted to mean somewhere further east. But in ANY event, the Ark certainly didn't come to rest on a mountain which was totally submerged.

And I am not "upset with you" about anything. I don't get upset with morons. I expect morons to be morons and I live with it.

 

[Taz]

God didn't write the bible so god said absolutely nothing.

God did write the Bible. We know that because man can not predict the future. God, can and did. To the Jews captivity, to the duration of the captivity, to a one world order that we see being formed today.

Men wrote the bible and Nostradamus also predicted the future. An invisible guy didn't do anything.

Then you could write in the same manner. What is the score of the next Super Bowl game going to be? How did Isaiah know that 100 years into the future would be a King named Cyrus? And what Impact that King would have on the Jews and the Jews Temple? Who will be president of Mexico 100 years from now? If Isaiah could do it, you can too.
Then compile your genealogy for me using only 7's and multiple of 7's in your biographies, and limit the vowels and consonants to 7 or multiples of 7. < If you get that far, let me know and I will give you the other 21 restrictions the Holy Spirit used to reveal the genealogy of Christ. It doesn't work to just ignore the facts and keep saying, "nuh a"...

So, tell me what charlatan you think wrote the Bible, and when he or she published his work.

Men still wrote the bible, no invisible person was involved. And you have yet to present any such proof.

And yet, whomever you think wrote the Bible is exactly that. Invisible. You can't give me his name, or when his work was published.
But you have a bigger mystery to solve. How did Mr. Ghost Writer find the Dead Sea Scrolls, destroy them, and replace them with his own work, using ancient parchment and ink?
The ones that were discovered prove the books of the Bible were written before 70 AD. Those scrolls are the biggest problem with your belief. So, riddle me that, and then we'll talk..

I don't follow what you're trying to say. But the earliest fragments of the bible have been dated to several generations after the events.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then research the Dead Sea Scrolls. They weren't dated several generations later.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

ANY event, the Ark certainly didn't come to rest on a mountain which was totally submerged.

obviously, after the water receded from having covered it. that never happened.

 

[Taz]

Then research the Dead Sea Scrolls. They weren't dated several generations later.

They were carbon dated to several generations after the facts. Look it up on a real scientific site.

 

[BreezeWood]

Then research the Dead Sea Scrolls. They weren't dated several generations later.

they are all copies, where are the originals, etchings in stone or clay renderings from the time when the events being depicted occurred, the christian bible was created in the late 4th century.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Who created it? It's the best seller. You'd think we would have identified the author by now.
That Book made a very big deal TWICE about the Temple of the Jews. Their creation and destruction. The Temple is a very big deal. Jesus prophesied what was going to happen to the one he taught in as a child. As pro Jesus as your ghost writer is, why was there no mention of Christ's prophesy being fulfilled? In 70 AD? The DS Scrolls would have mentioned it, don't you think? Your ghost writer surely would have. He predicted an end time Jewish Temple being built. Did he forget what happened to the other in 70 AD?

Nothing that is in either was written after the Temple was destroyed. In 70 AD.
If you have 2 ghost writers, one for the Scrolls and one for the Bible, the 2 would have to have written together, constantly comparing their work to make sure they used the same words. Then one hid his...
And there is that gift of prophesy again. If the ghost writer can do it, you can.
What famous writer will be born in the year, 2018?

And what of archeology? You have given me a writer, making up this crazy story about God destroying cities that the writer named Sodom and Gomorrah.
Did he also create the planetary disk mapping the event and then bury it hoping someone would find it in the 20th century to add credence to his work?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

On every goofball YEC site on the internet

Really? Well, I'll have to defer to your expertise on the matter because I don't frequent goofball YEC sites on the internet... better things to do with my time, to be honest, but if that's your bag man, whatever. I would suggest you ask them where it's written in the scriptures that Ararat was submerged and if that was the case, how did the Ark come to rest there? Seems it should've floated right on over it.

I guess you must not be smart enough to handle debates with goofball YEC types or you'd have thought of that yourself, huh?

I was not under the impression they were arguing that it was totally underwater, just almost all of it.. What's with the attitude? Twice now you have said things that are incorrect (re: belief in immaculate conception and Ararat being submerged), and you found a way to get upset with me about it.

Yes, there are pseudo-scientists lying about Mount Ararat. It's one of their canards.

You claimed they said it was submerged and that was your entire argument, that it was impossible for it to be totally submerged. Now you're changing your tune and claiming something different. I don't think I've said anything incorrectly. I haven't mentioned immaculate conception. I asked you where it is stated that Ararat was submerged and you couldn't explain. Instead, you backpedalled and tried to argue "just almost all of it" which is ambiguous at best.

Many Biblical scholars aren't certain that Ararat is even a definitive location of where the Ark landed. The scriptures are unclear as to a precise location and it can be interpreted to mean somewhere further east. But in ANY event, the Ark certainly didn't come to rest on a mountain which was totally submerged.

And I am not "upset with you" about anything. I don't get upset with morons. I expect morons to be morons and I live with it.

My bad for misspeaking. You'll get over it, because it is not germane.

And remember: your argument for a worldwide flood is terrible.

 

[Boss]

My bad for misspeaking. You'll get over it, because it is not germane.

And remember: your argument for a worldwide flood is terrible.

I don't recall ever arguing for a "worldwide flood" ...can you point that out to me?

I think you keep confusing me with some Christian who is cleaning your clock.

I like to approach the flood story from a purely intellectual standpoint. Whether it's the Biblical story or Gilgamesh, it seems apparent there was indeed some kind of massive flood which actually took place. At the time, the "world" was simply what we knew of as the world. We didn't have the Weather Channel and storm tracker monitoring stations in 147 countries. Our species was confined to relatively small region of the planet and that WAS "the world" as far as we could possibly know. So the entire concept of a "worldwide flood" quickly becomes a major regional flood which is considerably more likely to have happened. And when you start considering there may have been several major events working together... an earthquake, an asteroid strike, a volcano eruption, a tsunami... yeah, it's possible that mankind perceived this great flood as covering the whole world.

Archaeologically, we have found fossils of sea life on mountaintops in the area... how do you explain that? I suppose you could argue that plate tectonics is responsible, as plates shifted, it moved what was once a sea bed to a mountain top... but it seems that any likely fossils would've been covered up by tons of debris, never to be found. It could also be there is something to the numerous and curiously similar tales of a great flood.

For me, the more fascinating part of the story (because a flood can be explained) is Noah and how he knew to build a big ass boat for this impending disaster. Can you imagine what it must've been like for him? Being mocked and ridiculed daily by his neighbors who all thought he was nuts. You know his family and friends must've had moments of doubt as well. Heck, he probably had those same doubts along the way... what the hell am I doing? I can't imagine anyone doing such a thing today... God told me to do this because shit's fixing to get real man!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

My bad for misspeaking. You'll get over it, because it is not germane.

And remember: your argument for a worldwide flood is terrible.

I don't recall ever arguing for a "worldwide flood" ...can you point that out to me?

I think you keep confusing me with some Christian who is cleaning your clock.

I like to approach the flood story from a purely intellectual standpoint. Whether it's the Biblical story or Gilgamesh, it seems apparent there was indeed some kind of massive flood which actually took place. At the time, the "world" was simply what we knew of as the world. We didn't have the Weather Channel and storm tracker monitoring stations in 147 countries. Our species was confined to relatively small region of the planet and that WAS "the world" as far as we could possibly know. So the entire concept of a "worldwide flood" quickly becomes a major regional flood which is considerably more likely to have happened. And when you start considering there may have been several major events working together... an earthquake, an asteroid strike, a volcano eruption, a tsunami... yeah, it's possible that mankind perceived this great flood as covering the whole world.

Archaeologically, we have found fossils of sea life on mountaintops in the area... how do you explain that? I suppose you could argue that plate tectonics is responsible, as plates shifted, it moved what was once a sea bed to a mountain top... but it seems that any likely fossils would've been covered up by tons of debris, never to be found. It could also be there is something to the numerous and curiously similar tales of a great flood.

For me, the more fascinating part of the story (because a flood can be explained) is Noah and how he knew to build a big ass boat for this impending disaster. Can you imagine what it must've been like for him? Being mocked and ridiculed daily by his neighbors who all thought he was nuts. You know his family and friends must've had moments of doubt as well. Heck, he probably had those same doubts along the way... what the hell am I doing? I can't imagine anyone doing such a thing today... God told me to do this because shit's fixing to get real man!

Okay then, define "massive", so I don't hurt any feelings by guessing what you mean.

Legends among different cultures of floods is not evidence for a mass flood. That is only evidence that floods have always occured. Evidence for a single, mass flooding event would require a much stricter standard.

Sea life...where, exactly? Tell me where, and I bet it is easily explained. Fossils are rare, you know. The waters would have receded fairly quickly. It seems an odd proposition that we would find copious fossils from a short flood event.