Ukrainian troops overrun Russian forces, break through lines in recently annexed Kherson

[Toro]

Tsar Nicholas didn't have the power to destroy life on earth. If he had, he would have annihilated Japan and he would have had absolutely no mercy like we did.

Russia alone can end civilization.

Except that he won't. He knows it would be the end of himself and his regime. He'd be a dead man.

And of course, Russia isn't "alone" in ending civilization.

 

[multivita-man]

If it weren't for Obama and Biden, Putin would never have invaded in the first place, and Biden's foot dragging kept this from happening a long time ago. Black Rock and the other bankers must be in panic mode about now, and lobbying hard for a the usual Federal bailout. The GOP is falling all over itself trying to appease them.

I agree that Bush, Hillary, and Obama misjudged Putin. So did Trump. In fact Trump was the worst because he was a Russian asset.

 

[multivita-man]

Except that he won't. He knows it would be the end of himself and his regime. He'd be a dead man.

And of course, Russia isn't "alone" in ending civilization.

The danger is miscalculation/misunderstanding that leads to an ever-escalating series of exchanges. You're assuming that people are being rational here. Putin is, right now, faced with intensifying pressure on his regime's existence, and therefore, his life's existence. This is an existential crisis for Putin, who probably has sole (or nearly sole) control over the world's largest nuclear inventory.

You know that guy that we piss in our pants about? That little nutjob in North Korea? You know how we worry how he might be 'crazy' enough to launch nukes without provocation? Let's put it this way: I feel a LOT more confident that Kim Jong Un is not going to be the guy who starts a massive war than I do about Vladimir Putin. Kim has a smaller arsenal for one thing. And for another, his regime isn't in danger. Not so with Putin. Both 'DANGER' boxes checked.

 

[Lesh]

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Oh..wait...I guess i got carried away. Knowing you have zero interest in the truth..a common-place truth that the entire world knows..but you don't

But he's not pro-Russian

SURE...

 

[Toro]

The danger is miscalculation/misunderstanding that leads to an ever-escalating series of exchanges. You're assuming that people are being rational here. Putin is, right now, faced with intensifying pressure on his regime's existence, and therefore, his life's existence.

His life is over if he uses nuclear weapons.

Russia becomes fair game for attack by the US and its allies. The US doesn't need to use nuclear weapons. It can destroy Russia's infrastructure with conventional weapons.

He would get taken out by his own people, and he knows it.

 

[Lesh]

His life is over if he uses nuclear weapons.

Hopefully he's smart enough to know that

 

[DudleySmith]

The danger is miscalculation/misunderstanding that leads to an ever-escalating series of exchanges. You're assuming that people are being rational here. Putin is, right now, faced with intensifying pressure on his regime's existence, and therefore, his life's existence. This is an existential crisis for Putin, who probably has sole (or nearly sole) control over the world's largest nuclear inventory.

You know that guy that we piss in our pants about? That little nutjob in North Korea? You know how we worry how he might be 'crazy' enough to launch nukes without provocation? Let's put it this way: I feel a LOT more confident that Kim Jong Un is not going to be the guy who starts a massive war than I do about Vladimir Putin. Kim has a smaller arsenal for one thing. And for another, his regime isn't in danger. Not so with Putin. Both 'DANGER' boxes checked.

lol so because some piece of shit criminal has boxed himself in we should all give him whateever he wants, cuz 'war is bad n stuff'??? Ridiculous.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

His life is over if he uses nuclear weapons.

Russia becomes fair game for attack by the US and its allies.

He would get taken out by his own people, and he knows it.

I don't think he will..and if he did only limited theater low-yield tac nukes. I think we wouldn't even respond nuclear. Just take out his navy..The whole navy. Conventional strikes.
His handlers would get the message.

But if he thinks he's finished....he is the type to take the world with him to Vahalla. We must leave him a way out.

 

[multivita-man]

Maybe involve the UN? There is still a UN, right? At least..errr..technically

Yes, maybe.

Here's my thinking on Putin's annexation gambit. People, including our own dumbshit 'experts' are seeing this as an 'escalation'. It is technically, but really, I view this as Putin's way out. Putin is losing and he knows it but he can't go back to the Russian people without something in his hand.

Here's the 'sweet spot' that I'm thinking of. We get a ceasefire, but we have to get something out of this ceasefire (we and Ukraine of course). Putin also has to get something. But we have to make it clear to Putin that he has lost the war, that there has been an unbearable cost to his designs. He can stay in power - we won't fuck with him like that. But his ambitions of rebuilding the USSR are done - he has to accept that. We have to accept that he stays in power until the Russian people decide it's time for him to be gone.

How do we let Putin save face while keeping something for Ukraine? Controversial and I know people won't like it, but...let Russia keep Ukraine. Khrushchev (never can get the spelling right, lol) basically gifted Crimea to Ukraine. They actually did kinda, sorta have a referendum there, which even though is suspicious may be more legit than the other, more recent referenda.

Speaking of these referenda in the Donbas, I say, bring in UN peacekeeping forces (with a strong NATO presence), and bring in international vote monitors to conduct fair elections, and let the people of the Donbas have a real election to determine if they want to be part of Russia or Ukraine.

That reminds me of maybe the stupidest fucking part of Putin's plan to annex all of Ukraine. He never should have gone for the whole enchilada - that was dumb. But even worse, he could have just invaded Donbas and then conducted fake elections. What he did last week, could have been done 8 months ago - with a much lower cost. Putin ain't a chess player. He's a poker player. He makes bets. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. But recently he's been losing and he's been chasing bad money with more bad money. And now I fear he's the guy who has lost his money and it's 4 a.m. and he's drunk and now pulling out his 9mm and waving it at people, demanding his money back.

 

[multivita-man]

lol so because some piece of shit criminal has boxed himself in we should all give him whateever he wants, cuz 'war is bad n stuff'??? Ridiculous.

We live in the real world. A world of nuclear weapons.

 

[Toro]

I don't think he will..and if he did only limited theater low-yield tac nukes. I think we wouldn't even respond nuclear. Just take out his navy..The whole navy. Conventional strikes.
His handlers would get the message.

But if he thinks he's finished....he is the type to take the world with him to Vahalla. We must leave him a way out.

I don't think he will either.

I also think that if that's being discussed, those around him will take him out to stop it. Because otherwise, they're dead too.

 

[Lesh]

I don't think he will..and if he did only limited theater low-yield tac nukes. I think we wouldn't even respond nuclear. Just take out his navy..The whole navy. Conventional strikes.
His handlers would get the message.

But if he thinks he's finished....he is the type to take the world with him to Vahalla. We must leave him a way out.

Like most right wing dictators, when the end comes, he'll grab the billions he stole from his country and retire somewhere he thinks is safe

 

[multivita-man]

His life is over if he uses nuclear weapons.

Russia becomes fair game for attack by the US and its allies. The US doesn't need to use nuclear weapons. It can destroy Russia's infrastructure with conventional weapons.

He would get taken out by his own people, and he knows it.

You're making an assumption. You are assuming that people are rational. We are not.

 

[multivita-man]

Like most right wing dictators, when the end comes, he'll grab the billions he stole from his country and retire somewhere he thinks is safe

He probably won't. Where is he going to go now - Switzerland? Malta? He's committed to much murder on European land to get away with it. The Hague wants his ass. He is fucked, unless he has an off-ramp. Understand?

 

[Toro]

You're making an assumption. You are assuming that people are rational. We are not.

You're also making assumptions about how he might act.

We should have taken out Hitler when he re-occupied the Rhine. Casualties would have been far less.

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Screw Vlad. He needs to pull out and go home.

Putin and those Russians are home. Ukrainians are where they shouldn't be. Do try and keep up

 

[multivita-man]

You're also making assumptions about how he might act.

We should have taken out Hitler when he re-occupied the Rhine. Casualties would have been far less.

Yes, the Hilter analogy. I get it. Here's the thing, we should have made it clear that we would confront him in South Ossetia, and certainly in 2014, when he first crossed into Ukraine (not to mention his vagabond soldiers shooting down a passenger jet). We should have confronted him then - that was our appeasement at Munich moment.

But this war has been anything but appeasement. Putin has paid a price. He is losing, and he is losing because we are united against him. He needs a way out - with the proviso that Putin 'lose' and knows it. Let him go back to Russia and explain why his people are a lot poorer know and why they have tens of thousands of 18-35 year-old Russian men who are dead. We let Putin have the illusion he has walked away, but walked right into Russian anger and judgment.

 

[Toro]

Yes, the Hilter analogy. I get it. Here's the thing, we should have made it clear that we would confront him in South Ossetia, and certainly in 2014, when he first crossed into Ukraine (not to mention his vagabond soldiers shooting down a passenger jet). We should have confronted him then - that was our appeasement at Munich moment.

But this war has been anything but appeasement. Putin has paid a price. He is losing, and he is losing because we are united against him. He needs a way out - with the proviso that Putin 'lose' and knows it. Let him go back to Russia and explain why his people are a lot poorer know and why they have tens of thousands of 18-35 year-old Russian men who are dead. We let Putin have the illusion he has walked away, but walked right into Russian anger and judgment.

There is no way out. This will just keep going on until he's gone.

Might as well do it now.

 

[multivita-man]

There is no way out. This will just keep going on until he's gone.

Might as well do it now.

No you can't think like this. I sure as shit hope people in the WH or in the Pentagon are thinking this way.

 

[Lesh]

He probably won't. Where is he going to go now - Switzerland? Malta? He's committed to much murder on European land to get away with it. The Hague wants his ass. He is fucked, unless he has an off-ramp. Understand?

I do but he'll find a place. The Seychelles? Syria? China?