Uh Oh!!: Tim Adams, Chief Elections Clerk in Hawaii says Obama wasn't born there.

[Procrustes Stretched]

Credibility is not one of your strong points, Ted.

Listen to the interview....

Tim Adams, contracted temporary Chief Elections Clerk in Honolulu during the November 2008 Presidential Election, states that the records of Hawaii THEN SHOWED that Barack Obama was NOT born in Hawaii AND notes also that there were relevant records of interest stolen in or around the time period after this discovery as well.

You need to stay around here Ted. You make others look moderate. I salute your service. You're a real American Patriot.

 

[Gadawg73]

I'm backing up my opinions and perceptions every bit as well as you are backing up yours my friend. Every bit as well as you are.

Again the phenomenon that so many of you are so desperate to protect the privacy of this President, when you haven't demonstrated any such passion about any other public figures, most particularly conservative ones, does fuel the suspicion that he has much to hide, doesn't it? What are you so terrified we might find out? Do you have so little faith in him yourselves that you can't afford to take the risk?

Total BS. The birth certificate is valid and authenticated by the proper authorities.
Your claim that our belief that it is valid is a "phenomenon that so many of you are so desperate to protect the privacy of the President" is without any fact, foundation or evidence. You show your political biased ideology with "you haven't demonstrated any such passion about any other public figures,most particularly conservative ones".
What passion? What tactic to protect the President's privacy.
What privacy is anyone trying to protect?
You are chasing your own tail.
I need evidence to have suspicions. You may not but those suspicions without any evidence do not lend one ounce of credibility to your or anyone's argument.
Rumor, gossip, innuendos and suspicions are not valid or credible anywhere.

I never said the Certification of Birth is not valid. I am not the least bit concerned about the Certification of Birth. I am curious, however, about what is on the Birth Certificate that we are not allowed to see and nobody is allowed to tell us.

Being curious and having suspicions are two separate things, but one does follow the other. When curiosity goes unanswered, it can breed suspicions.

And I'm not chasing anybody's tail. I am calling you a hypocrite, however, if you say you have never been curious about a public figure, have not wondered if rumors were true, would refuse to look if interesting information was made available to you. I can say with a great deal of certainty that you didn't think President Bush was entitled to keep secret interesting things in his private life and you didn't think those who went digging for information were off base. He was President of the United States! As such we were entitled to know a great deal about him.

Will you say now that you have no curiosity whatsoever about those hidden areas of President Obama's life? Are you the one person on the planet who is devoid of curiosity of things like that? Don't bother to answer because if you say 'no', I already knew that. And if you say 'yes' you will be seen as dishonest.

Now if you have nothing further to contribute here, this circular argument is becoming quite tedious and I will choose not to engage further in it. Do have a great day.

I work in the court system preparing cases for trial for 30 years.
Suspicions, curiosity and the like have no place amongst thinking Americans with a sense of justice.
What does Bush have to do with any of this? Show me where I stated anything about him. Somewhere, anywere, something, ANYTHING.
You are seriously lacking in that regard. Evidence and proof is what you need. Without it your argument is zero, nothing, a whiff in the wind.
Going, going...................GONE.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The birthers have never posted any probative evidence, not once, not one single solid substantive that would cause a Reasonable Person to to consider taking this further.

Therefore, birthers must fall into one of three categories: woefully uninformed, mentally feeble, or malignantly motivated.

 

[traveler52]

The birthers have never posted any probative evidence, not once, not one single solid substantive that would cause a Reasonable Person to to consider taking this further.

Therefore, birthers must fall into one of three categories: woefully uninformed, mentally feeble, or malignantly motivated.

Well, they did at try, once. Remember the doctored up, phony Birth Certificate that Russian Dentist turn Lawyer tried to pass off? Never mind that the paper could pass the smell the smell test, but then again that proves just how deserprate they really are.

Again.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Repug - She has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barack H. Obama and has stated for the record, it is in fact valid.

The Secretary of State for Hawaii is a Repug - He has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barach H. Obama has stated for the record, it is in fact valid. It is the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Hawaii to issue such Certificates of Live Birth.

It does not matter that Mr. Obama WAS NOT A CITIZEN of the United States, his Mother was. He was born in Hawaii. They just need to get over the fact that Amerirca finally elected a Black Man as President.

 

[DiveCon]

The birthers have never posted any probative evidence, not once, not one single solid substantive that would cause a Reasonable Person to to consider taking this further.

Therefore, birthers must fall into one of three categories: woefully uninformed, mentally feeble, or malignantly motivated.

Well, they did at try, once. Remember the doctored up, phony Birth Certificate that Russian Dentist turn Lawyer tried to pass off? Never mind that the paper could pass the smell the smell test, but then again that proves just how deserprate they really are.

Again.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Repug - She has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barack H. Obama and has stated for the record, it is in fact valid.

The Secretary of State for Hawaii is a Repug - He has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barach H. Obama has stated for the record, it is in fact valid. It is the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Hawaii to issue such Certificates of Live Birth.

It does not matter that Mr. Obama WAS NOT A CITIZEN of the United States, his Mother was. He was born in Hawaii. They just need to get over the fact that Amerirca finally elected a Black Man as President.

cant you say "repub" or are you the other side of the coin that has to say "demoncRATS"?

 

[traveler52]

The birthers have never posted any probative evidence, not once, not one single solid substantive that would cause a Reasonable Person to to consider taking this further.

Therefore, birthers must fall into one of three categories: woefully uninformed, mentally feeble, or malignantly motivated.

Well, they did at try, once. Remember the doctored up, phony Birth Certificate that Russian Dentist turn Lawyer tried to pass off? Never mind that the paper could pass the smell the smell test, but then again that proves just how deserprate they really are.

Again.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Repug - She has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barack H. Obama and has stated for the record, it is in fact valid.

The Secretary of State for Hawaii is a Repug - He has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barach H. Obama has stated for the record, it is in fact valid. It is the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Hawaii to issue such Certificates of Live Birth.

It does not matter that Mr. Obama WAS NOT A CITIZEN of the United States, his Mother was. He was born in Hawaii. They just need to get over the fact that Amerirca finally elected a Black Man as President.

cant you say "repub" or are you the other side of the coin that has to say "demoncRATS"?

Repuglicant, Repugnant. Same same.

 

[Foxfyre]

Total BS. The birth certificate is valid and authenticated by the proper authorities.
Your claim that our belief that it is valid is a "phenomenon that so many of you are so desperate to protect the privacy of the President" is without any fact, foundation or evidence. You show your political biased ideology with "you haven't demonstrated any such passion about any other public figures,most particularly conservative ones".
What passion? What tactic to protect the President's privacy.
What privacy is anyone trying to protect?
You are chasing your own tail.
I need evidence to have suspicions. You may not but those suspicions without any evidence do not lend one ounce of credibility to your or anyone's argument.
Rumor, gossip, innuendos and suspicions are not valid or credible anywhere.

I never said the Certification of Birth is not valid. I am not the least bit concerned about the Certification of Birth. I am curious, however, about what is on the Birth Certificate that we are not allowed to see and nobody is allowed to tell us.

Being curious and having suspicions are two separate things, but one does follow the other. When curiosity goes unanswered, it can breed suspicions.

And I'm not chasing anybody's tail. I am calling you a hypocrite, however, if you say you have never been curious about a public figure, have not wondered if rumors were true, would refuse to look if interesting information was made available to you. I can say with a great deal of certainty that you didn't think President Bush was entitled to keep secret interesting things in his private life and you didn't think those who went digging for information were off base. He was President of the United States! As such we were entitled to know a great deal about him.

Will you say now that you have no curiosity whatsoever about those hidden areas of President Obama's life? Are you the one person on the planet who is devoid of curiosity of things like that? Don't bother to answer because if you say 'no', I already knew that. And if you say 'yes' you will be seen as dishonest.

Now if you have nothing further to contribute here, this circular argument is becoming quite tedious and I will choose not to engage further in it. Do have a great day.

I work in the court system preparing cases for trial for 30 years.
Suspicions, curiosity and the like have no place amongst thinking Americans with a sense of justice.
What does Bush have to do with any of this? Show me where I stated anything about him. Somewhere, anywere, something, ANYTHING.
You are seriously lacking in that regard. Evidence and proof is what you need. Without it your argument is zero, nothing, a whiff in the wind.
Going, going...................GONE.

Are you serious? Suspicion, curiosity and the like have no place among thinking Americans with a sense of justice?

Are you honestly going to stand by that statement?

Americans with a sense of justice are obligated to not express any sense of curiosity? Are not supposed to suspect those who they think are not being on the up and up with them?They are supposed to just accept whatever higher ups feed them and not question them in any way? If evidence isn't provided, nobody can ethically go looking for it? And we aren't supposed to be curious about anything re famous people? Especially those we give almost absolute power over us?

Are you SURE you don't want to rethink that statement?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre confuses semantics, curiosity, and moral behavior. The question of BHO's citizenship has been settled irrevocably in his favor and that of the overwhelming majority of the country. Any further pursuit of the issue reveals in her a truly vicious stubbornness that definitely diminishes her credibility. Your discussion, foxfyre, only drives the discriminating and informed American further away from your concern.

 

[DiveCon]

Well, they did at try, once. Remember the doctored up, phony Birth Certificate that Russian Dentist turn Lawyer tried to pass off? Never mind that the paper could pass the smell the smell test, but then again that proves just how deserprate they really are.

Again.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Repug - She has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barack H. Obama and has stated for the record, it is in fact valid.

The Secretary of State for Hawaii is a Repug - He has seen the Certificate of Live Birth as issued for Barach H. Obama has stated for the record, it is in fact valid. It is the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Hawaii to issue such Certificates of Live Birth.

It does not matter that Mr. Obama WAS NOT A CITIZEN of the United States, his Mother was. He was born in Hawaii. They just need to get over the fact that Amerirca finally elected a Black Man as President.

cant you say "repub" or are you the other side of the coin that has to say "demoncRATS"?

Repuglicant, Repugnant. Same same.

ah, so you ARE the other side of the maturity coin from them
ok

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Constantly calling good Americans "Racists" and suing your fellow Americans in Arizona is as Anti-American as it gets. The New World order would fully support these policies. I have many doubts about this President. Something is not right with this guy. It does seem that he was created & groomed by an outside power. His actions are convincing me to be more open to the possibility that he is a New World Order Anti-American foreign plant. Hey that's just how i feel anyway.

 

[RDD_1210]

Constantly calling good Americans "Racists" and suing your fellow Americans in Arizona is as Anti-American as it gets. The New World order would fully support these policies. I have many doubts about this President. Something is not right with this guy. It does seem that he was created & groomed by an outside power. His actions are convincing me to be more open to the possibility that he is a New World Order Anti-American foreign plant. Hey that's just how i feel anyway.

Since you've dodged my question in every other thread, I'll ask you here AGAIN, which I'm sure you'll ignore.

What is the highest level of education you have completed and what do you do for a living?

 

[Foxfyre]

Constantly calling good Americans "Racists" and suing your fellow Americans in Arizona is as Anti-American as it gets. The New World order would fully support these policies. I have many doubts about this President. Something is not right with this guy. It does seem that he was created & groomed by an outside power. His actions are convincing me to be more open to the possibility that he is a New World Order Anti-American foreign plant. Hey that's just how i feel anyway.

Since you've dodged my question in every other thread, I'll ask you here AGAIN, which I'm sure you'll ignore.

What is the highest level of education you have completed and what do you do for a living?

I have to ask what that would have to do with anything and why any member would be expected to post that on a message board.

I know what a number of members do for a living in real life, but for many good reasons prefer not to post that here. And I think the question is out of line.

 

[RDD_1210]

Constantly calling good Americans "Racists" and suing your fellow Americans in Arizona is as Anti-American as it gets. The New World order would fully support these policies. I have many doubts about this President. Something is not right with this guy. It does seem that he was created & groomed by an outside power. His actions are convincing me to be more open to the possibility that he is a New World Order Anti-American foreign plant. Hey that's just how i feel anyway.

Since you've dodged my question in every other thread, I'll ask you here AGAIN, which I'm sure you'll ignore.

What is the highest level of education you have completed and what do you do for a living?

I have to ask what that would have to do with anything and why any member would be expected to post that on a message board.

I know what a number of members do for a living in real life, but for many good reasons prefer not to post that here. And I think the question is out of line.

Because he makes some of the most ridiculous claims and statement of anyone here. I would be shocked to find that he graduated high school or held any kind of job that involved using his brain because he certainly doesn't use it when he posts here.

And to clarify, I'm not saying this because he and I have opposing view points, I'm saying it because the stuff he posts is so far out there it can't possibly be written by someone who has the ability to use logic and reasoning.

I'm not asking for him to post his real name, SSN or anything personal. I hardly consider my question out of line.

 

[Foxfyre]

Since you've dodged my question in every other thread, I'll ask you here AGAIN, which I'm sure you'll ignore.

What is the highest level of education you have completed and what do you do for a living?

I have to ask what that would have to do with anything and why any member would be expected to post that on a message board.

I know what a number of members do for a living in real life, but for many good reasons prefer not to post that here. And I think the question is out of line.

Because he makes some of the most ridiculous claims and statement of anyone here. I would be shocked to find that he graduated high school or held any kind of job that involved using his brain because he certainly doesn't use it when he posts here.

And to clarify, I'm not saying this because he and I have opposing view points, I'm saying it because the stuff he posts is so far out there it can't possibly be written by someone who has the ability to use logic and reasoning.

I'm not asking for him to post his real name, SSN or anything personal. I hardly consider my question out of line.

Nobody is asking you to appreciate his point of view, his perspective, or anything he says. He is entitled to see it as he sees it. And right or wrong, over the top or sensible, he has a lot of company out there who see it as he sees it or who are beginning to see how some of it isn't so illogical after all. And some of those folks hold PhDs and quite responsible jobs. I don't agree with a lot of it either, but I know closing one's mind and choosing to attack the messenger and refusing to even consider what s/he says can be a very dangerous thing in these times.

His level of education or what he does for a living is his business and something he should volunteer or not as he chooses.

And if you don't like what he says, then articulate a rebuttal for it and show how it could not possibly be as he suggests. Going the ad hominem route only puts your own education and what you do for a living in question.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Constantly calling good Americans "Racists" and suing your fellow Americans in Arizona is as Anti-American as it gets. The New World order would fully support these policies. I have many doubts about this President. Something is not right with this guy. It does seem that he was created & groomed by an outside power. His actions are convincing me to be more open to the possibility that he is a New World Order Anti-American foreign plant. Hey that's just how i feel anyway.

You are a loony, my friend, but, yes, you are entitled to your opinion and to express it.

Suing Arizona over the law is American.

Calling racists "racists" is being American.

Your "doubt", my friend, rests in your head.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One attacks a messenger, sometimes, foxfyre, when no credible evidence supports the message. Like birtherism. Like trutherism. If you, or your running buddy Lib, would post evidence along with your doubts, then we can go somewhere with that.

But you don't, and we won't. That's how it's done.

 

[RDD_1210]

I'm not against anyone posting their opinion. I just question how that opinion is derived when it is so far out there and ridiculous. Consider it morbid curiosity of wanting to know how someone could actually write stuff like that.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm not against anyone posting their opinion. I just question how that opinion is derived when it is so far out there and ridiculous. Consider it morbid curiosity of wanting to know how someone could actually write stuff like that.

If you are seriously interested in how somebody arrives at their opinion, the best way to find that out is ask them. If your intent is to belittle or diminish or accuse them, one way to do that is to ask a personal question in an insulting way.

People can actually write stuff like that because there is a basis for it. It isn't manufactured out of thin air. Do people always arrive at the correct conclusions when these things come up? No they don't. They didn't when they did it during the Reagan administration. Or the Bush 41 admnistration. Or the Clinton administration. Or the Bush43 administration. Or the present administration.

But it really gives more credence to the theories when those theories seem so terrifying to the adoring worshippers of the leadership. They don't care WHY the messenger came up with the theories. They must kill the messenger quickly lest others hear the message.

If they didn't fear the message or if it was as ridiculous as you say, you would know that the messenger would appear foolish to any intelligent person and you would have no need to discredit the messenger.

The best way to put these things to rest, however, is to show how the theory or opinion is impossible or off base. Attacking the messenger only reinforces what you wish to refute.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I've said this before and i'll say it again...Most people have become Lab-Rats and Chimps at this point. They are conditioned to give certain responses. They are conditioned to perform on cue. The conditioned response for these and other possibilities is to immediately attack and call people crazy. I don't get angry at these people because i know it's just their conditioned response mechanism kicking in. They're just performing on cue. I can't get angry with them any more than i could get angry at a Lab-Rat or Chimp. They are taught and conditioned to attack and label everyone crazy if the ideas put forth don't fit into their programmed world beliefs. I just recommend that people keep an open mind to all possibilities. Don't be so quick to perform on cue and give that conditioned response.

 

[RDD_1210]

I'm not against anyone posting their opinion. I just question how that opinion is derived when it is so far out there and ridiculous. Consider it morbid curiosity of wanting to know how someone could actually write stuff like that.

If you are seriously interested in how somebody arrives at their opinion, the best way to find that out is ask them. If your intent is to belittle or diminish or accuse them, one way to do that is to ask a personal question in an insulting way.

People can actually write stuff like that because there is a basis for it. It isn't manufactured out of thin air. Do people always arrive at the correct conclusions when these things come up? No they don't. They didn't when they did it during the Reagan administration. Or the Bush 41 admnistration. Or the Clinton administration. Or the Bush43 administration. Or the present administration.

But it really gives more credence to the theories when those theories seem so terrifying to the adoring worshippers of the leadership. They don't care WHY the messenger came up with the theories. They must kill the messenger quickly lest others hear the message.

If they didn't fear the message or if it was as ridiculous as you say, you would know that the messenger would appear foolish to any intelligent person and you would have no need to discredit the messenger.

The best way to put these things to rest, however, is to show how the theory or opinion is impossible or off base. Attacking the messenger only reinforces what you wish to refute.

You're assuming that someone like Lib can actually be reasoned with, which I have seen for myself is next to impossible. All the facts and evidence in the world wont change his mind about the nonsense that he posts. I've asked PLENTY of other people whos posts I dont agree with, why they think they way they do, and sometimes I get a response and sometimes I dont. But when someone like Lib posts such Drivel it's kind of hard to have a rational discussion with him, which is again why I want to know what kind of person I'm dealing with and if there is any possibility of rational discussion.