U.S. Marines To Investigate Video of Soldiers Urinating on Corpses

[logical4u]

I see this two ways. We send people off to kill other people, but we can't urinate on their corpse, which most likely was done by these Marines to "psych out" some nearby enemy supporters watching them.

[...]

"Psych out" What exactly does that mean?

Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.

Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically. In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands. Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers. Just an observation....

 

[The Gadfly]

One more thing; what article of the UCMJ prescribes the punishment for pissing on an enemy corpse? I'm not sure I've ever seen that one, but I'm sure some creative JAG officer can find something.

They will probably be charged under Article 134 of the UCMJ.

Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.

 

[logical4u]

I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.

The situational difference being our Nation was at war with the Japanese and Germans and we all had cause to fear those enemies. And because fear is the essential precursor of hatred all of us hated the Japs and the Germans as much as our troops did. Whereas the enemies of today's troops in the Middle East, much like the enemies of our troops in Vietnam, are mere abstractions to us here at home. We have no cause to fear them. To us these pajama-clad abstractions are equivalent to characters in an adventure novel or a movie. And the public indignation which will flow from this pissing incident will derive from equally casual piety.

Of course, what these Marines did was done in our names. And that is true because we allowed the likes of George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell to get over on us and bring it about. There is just as much justification for pissing on the corpses of those persons, whoever and whatever they were, as there is for our being in that country in the first place. And whose fault is it that we are there?

How many Americans need to die in their everyday schedule by bombing before you say "that is it"? Please give us a number, because islam has been murdering westerners and Jews for centuries, and treating them like honorable people has just gotten more people murdered.

 

[logical4u]

They may have been OWS people, saw that pissing on things other then toilets gets one called a 'hero' and looked up to and thought 'WTF, maybe I can be a hero pissing here'

 

[uscitizen]

"Psych out" What exactly does that mean?

Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.

Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically. In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands. Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers. Just an observation....

Yep like God Ordering the Israelites to slaughter all women and children who did not flee before them.

All religion sucks when they use it for power and conquest.

 

[uscitizen]

One more thing; what article of the UCMJ prescribes the punishment for pissing on an enemy corpse? I'm not sure I've ever seen that one, but I'm sure some creative JAG officer can find something.

They will probably be charged under Article 134 of the UCMJ.

Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.

Thanks for that info. They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.

 

[The Gadfly]

I only see one problem with this whole situation...if your going to do something stupid don't record it, and if you do record it, definitely don't let it make its way to youtube.

Young soldiers have trouble separating killing from emotion. To bring themselves to a point where they are able to take the life of another human being, they have to dehumanize the individual. This is done in a variety of ways, starting in basic training, and continuing after they get to their unit. Right or wrong, it helps these young men cope with what they are doing.

Those who have been in combat know that the humor which emerges from it is dark and twisted. This is done out of necessity, because the norms and standards of civilized society don't hold up to the horrors of war. So things like this happen. I hate to break it to the armchair generals out there, but when you send 19 year old kids to a place like this, and train them to kill efficiently and without remorse, you cant expect them to turn around and treat their "targets" as human.

I'm not excusing it by any means, what I'm saying is that the civilian world (and the non-combat arms side of the military for that matter) is simply getting a glimpse into the dark mind of a young Infantryman. I'm not saying that all of us are like that, or that we have all done this. What I am saying is that your standards of civilization and humanity would be a serious impediment to the goal of "locating, closing with, and neutralizing the enemy".

So, speaking as a former young Infantryman myself, the American public should take this as a chance to see the kind of emotional angst that these young men go through. These are your sons, and friends. Instead of condemning the act, consider what they have been through that would bring them to do it. Just imagine the frustration of losing a friend to an IED, and knowing that you possess the ability to unleash the fury of God himself upon the attacker, but he is nowhere to be found. Then, when you finally catch up to the bad guy, the bomb maker who has killed your friends and plagued your nightmares for months, do you really believe you would treat his corpse with all the respect of a saint?

Anyone who has ever been a combat grunt knows this. Unfortunately, it's difficult for civilians, and even non=ground combat military personnel to fully comprehend. The level of brutality that is commonplace on a battlefield is almost incomprehensible to anyone who has not experienced it firsthand; even the tamest of it is so far beyond their concept of anything remotely normal. I swear for most of them, I really believe it is better, if they don't know (not the details, anyway). Hell, I wish I didn't know, and you probably do too.

 

[logical4u]

Make em want to kill more Americans I would think to be the outcome.

Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically. In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands. Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers. Just an observation....

Yep like God Ordering the Israelites to slaughter all women and children who did not flee before them.

All religion sucks when they use it for power and conquest.

And yet, not one harsh word against those that perpetuate your worst nightmare of religion? Instead bash the religion that gave us modern day conveniences, modern medicine, cleaner environments, easier transportation, and raised the average standard of living for the entire world. Why don't you join Jerimiah Wright's congregation?

 

[Liability]

Taliban corpses get pissed on and we are supposed to care because ....

uhm ....

it's a -- errr -- kind of ... that is ... ahhhh ....

 

[The Gadfly]

They will probably be charged under Article 134 of the UCMJ.

Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.

Thanks for that info. They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.

Well, you're a bit late on the "beheading" part (except for the French Revolution). The British and Americans usually preferred hanging. That bit of history IS accurate, according to the best first hand accounts we have of the battle and its aftermath. The Revolution as fought in the South, especially the Carolinas, is often not taught in great detail; mostly partisan warfare, and very nasty; some of it not so unlike what we saw in Vietnam, in a qualitative if not quantitative sense.

 

[uscitizen]

Not that I particularly agree with those actions, but I do understand them; the incidents that stopped islam's march were even worse, historically. In the past, it was the only way to stop islam from killing, converting or subjugating others' lands. Today, the "civilized" are allowing themselves to be systematically destroyed by people with ruthless ideologies that punish the productive and the generous while elevating the immoral and destroyers. Just an observation....

Yep like God Ordering the Israelites to slaughter all women and children who did not flee before them.

All religion sucks when they use it for power and conquest.

And yet, not one harsh word against those that perpetuate your worst nightmare of religion? Instead bash the religion that gave us modern day conveniences, modern medicine, cleaner environments, easier transportation, and raised the average standard of living for the entire world. Why don't you join Jerimiah Wright's congregation?

Why?
I do not believe in any supreme being/god or an after life of any type.

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah, I'm sure it can be made to fit clause 1 or clause 2 of that article somehow; I'm not sure that SHOULD happen, but in today's climate, it likely will. I feel conflicted on this one; I've got little patience with the kind of gross stupidity that led them to film this, but no great problem with the act itself. Hell, that's been done for ages; back during the American revolution, after the battle of King's Mountain, a number of Patriot militiamen relieved themselves on British Major Patrick Ferguson's corpse; I can't say I've ever seen anything decrying THAT.

Thanks for that info. They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.

Well, you're a bit late on the "beheading" part (except for the French Revolution). The British and Americans usually preferred hanging. That bit of history IS accurate, according to the best first hand accounts we have of the battle and its aftermath. The Revolution as fought in the South, especially the Carolinas, is often not taught in great detail; mostly partisan warfare, and very nasty; some of it not so unlike what we saw in Vietnam, in a qualitative if not quantitative sense.

Another interesting point is that according to the civilized europeans thos Americans fought like barbarians.
Shooting from ambush, not standing up and fighting in orderly lines.

 

[The Gadfly]

Thanks for that info. They did not teach it to me in school US history class.
ntw this was a time when beheading was an accepted western form of execution.

Well, you're a bit late on the "beheading" part (except for the French Revolution). The British and Americans usually preferred hanging. That bit of history IS accurate, according to the best first hand accounts we have of the battle and its aftermath. The Revolution as fought in the South, especially the Carolinas, is often not taught in great detail; mostly partisan warfare, and very nasty; some of it not so unlike what we saw in Vietnam, in a qualitative if not quantitative sense.

Another interesting point is that according to the civilized europeans thos Americans fought like barbarians.
Shooting from ambush, not standing up and fighting in orderly lines.

That part of it was a backwoods war; most of the worst of it was between Patriot and Tory partisan bands; not exactly "fair", but as we both know, war never is, really; it's hardly a gentleman's game (if indeed it ever was). Unfortunately we tend to like our history nice, neat, mythologized and sanitized, rather than the way it really was. I know a lot of people would like to, but we really can't ever clean up war, can't take the essential ugliness out of it. It's an awful business; sometimes necessary, but still awful.

 

[MaryL]

Some grunt with a camera and a lack of discretion is NOT something new. Technology doesn’t improve the species. Back in 1978, I had a co-worker share a dirty little secret with me. It came in the form of Polaroids taken during a war crime he and his fellow platoon mates committed during the Vietnam war. It was disgusting. What do can I do with that? My father didn't have a cheap camera and you tube account when he was wounded in the pacific in 1943, either. Somewhere, I think there is a balance between the good soldiers and the ones that were wounded mentally and have no discretion.

 

[Salt Jones]

I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.

Or black, Hispanic or Jewish Americans.

 

[Salt Jones]

It's not the war that made this happen. I've seen Marines, in peacetime, wipe their penises on the mouth piece of a fellow Marines hydration pack and then laugh when he found out. I've seen them injure fellow Marines giving them "blood Stripes" when they got promoted. I've seen them duck tape a fellow Marine to a chair, tape a sling to the chair and hoist the taped Marine about 35 feet to the top of an aircraft hanger and leave him there. I've seen a Marine shit in a pizza box and deliver the "pizza" to his unsuspecting fellow Marines.

If they do that to each other, why is it so hard to fathom them pissing on a dead Taliban?

 

[Sunshine]

I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.

Or black, Hispanic or Jewish Americans.

One of the pissers was black.

 

[Salt Jones]

I guess we are lucky that it was almost impossible for a member of the Military to make a movie much less take a photograph of combat situations during WW2 but then again it wouldn't be any big deal to piss on the bodies of Nazis or Japs back then.

Or black, Hispanic or Jewish Americans.

One of the pissers was black.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lR3ZGFwvI]U.S. Marines Urinate on Taliban Corpses (Warning: GRAPHIC FOOTAGE) 11-JAN-2012 - YouTube[/ame]

So, Malcolm X's, along with thousands of other blacks, killers were black.

 

[eots]

it's not the war that made this happen. I've seen marines, in peacetime, wipe their penises on the mouth piece of a fellow marines hydration pack and then laugh when he found out. I've seen them injure fellow marines giving them "blood stripes" when they got promoted. I've seen them duck tape a fellow marine to a chair, tape a sling to the chair and hoist the taped marine about 35 feet to the top of an aircraft hanger and leave him there. I've seen a marine shit in a pizza box and deliver the "pizza" to his unsuspecting fellow marines.

If they do that to each other, why is it so hard to fathom them pissing on a dead taliban?

Wow does that ever sound...well....gay

 

[Synthaholic]

This is a failure of training. These men were put in the field before learning what it is to be Marines.