U.S. Marines To Investigate Video of Soldiers Urinating on Corpses

[9thIDdoc]

How many corpses did you piss on?

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.

Ahhhhh the sweet illlusions of a virgin! So sad reality sometimes makes an appearance.
If they were not United States Military professionals where did the corpses come from.

 

[Cowman]

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.

Ahhhhh the sweet illlusions of a virgin! So sad reality sometimes makes an appearance.
If they were not United States Military professionals where did the corpses come from.

What the hell kind of logic is that? I know that the United States Military killed them, idiot. Corpses do not come pre-urinated on.

What the hell are you trying to get at? Because it makes no sense and has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[SFC Ollie]

How many corpses did you piss on?

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.

But they do tell people to **** off..............

 

[The Gadfly]

We have high standards of conduct in our military.

Yes we do

You served when/where?

I never did.

I presume you have. How many corpses did you piss on? Was it zero? I'm betting it was.

Did you know even one fellow soldier that had pissed on a corpse? I bet not.

The idea that one cannot help but to piss on corpses once one has seen enough combat flies in the face of the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have served in combat have never pissed on a corpse, wouldn't you say?

I don't know. I do know I saw worse, in Vietnam.You ASSUME a lot. You ASSUME that no American military personnel have ever had a moment when they "lost it" in the aftermath of a firefight. You ASSUME that you know what emotions arise in combat, and that every troop, all the time, "should be able to handle that". You ASSUME that YOU would NEVER do any such thing. How the hell would YOU know-you've never been in combat.

Now, you and everyone else with your permanent civilian faux outrage over this incident can rest assured, these Marines WILL be disciplined, according to law- as defined in the UCMJ, NOT in your permanent civilian imagination. I do not know what that punishment will be, but the UCMJ provides a number of possibilities short of a General Court Martial. If I were their commanding officer (and unlike you, I have actually commanded troops in combat), I would recommend them for an Article 15-Summary Court Martial (google that, if you don't know what that is). As I have said repeatedly in this thread, that is the level this offense rises to. That's fair, from what I can see, and I do NOT want to see command railroad these Marines into anything more, just to appease a bunch of ignorant, pantywaist civilians like yourself. You got that?

P.S Have you ever actually READ the Geneva Conventions, or do you just ASSUME you understand those too?

 

[ABikerSailor]

First.......let's talk about docking them a days pay like Liability wants to do......can't be done, because here are the punishments that can be awarded under NJP and who can award them.......

For Enlisted members Accused Of Misconduct

There are three types of non-judicial punishment commonly imposed.

Summary Article 15: commanders (O-3 and below) and commissioned OIC may impose:
Restriction to specific limits (normally work, barracks, place of worship, mess hall, and medical facilities) for not more than 14 days
Extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 14 days
Restriction with extra duties for not more than 14 days

Company Grade (O-3 or below) commanders may impose the above plus:
Correctional Custody for not more than 7 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
Forfeiture of 7 days base pay
Reduction by one grade, if original rank in promotion authority of imposing officer (USA/USAF E-4 and below.)
Confinement on diminished rations or bread and water for not more than 3 days (USN/USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal

Field Grade (O-4 to O-6) may impose:
Restriction for not more than 60 days
Extra duties for not more than 45 days
Restriction with extra duties for not more than 45 days
Correctional Custody for not more than 30 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
Forfeiture of ½ of base pay for two months
Reduction by one grade if (USA/USAF E-6 or E-5; USMC E-5 or below; USN E-6 or below); or reduction to E-1 (USA/USAF E-4 to E-2)
Confinement on diminished rations or bread and water for not more than 3 days (USN/USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal

If the member considers the punishment to be unjust or to be disproportionate to the misconduct committed, he or she may appeal the NJP to a higher authority. This is usually the next officer in the chain of command. Upon considering the appeal, the higher authority may set aside the NJP, decrease the severity of the punishment, or may deny the appeal. They may not increase the severity of the punishment.

Personnel are permitted to refuse NJP in favor of a court-martial; this might be done in cases where they do not feel their Commanding Officer will give them a fair hearing. But this option exposes them to a possible criminal court conviction. Navy and Marine Corps personnel assigned to or embarked aboard ship do not have the option of refusing NJP, nor can they appeal the decision of the officer imposing punishment; they may only appeal the severity of the punishment.

Non-judicial punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, that's where you start. However, like I said, based on the actions of these Marines (as well as the circumstances involved like deployment, etc.) as well as the international ramifications this has brought, they should be given at the very least a courts martial, as well as be kicked out.

I mean.........I've seen people kicked out for a LOT less than what these Marines did.

 

[The Gadfly]

ABS,
You got a problem with a Summary Article 15 (Field Grade) on this one? I would think that about what this deserves (absent some aggravating factor we don't know about).

 

[ABikerSailor]

ABS,
You got a problem with a Summary Article 15 (Field Grade) on this one? I would think that about what this deserves (absent some aggravating factor we don't know about).

Yes, I do, because the punishments that can be imposed are much less than what these guys deserve. Me personally? I'd push for a Special or General Courts Martial. I personally don't think that a CO alone would be able to take in all the mitigating factors, that could only be done at a Special or General.

Types of court-martial

There are three types of courts-martial—summary, special and general. A conviction at a general court-martial is equivalent to a civilian conviction in a federal district court. Special courts-martial are considered "federal misdemeanor courts" because they cannot impose confinement longer than one year. Summary courts-martial have no civilian equivalent.

[edit] Summary Court-Martial

Trial by summary court-martial provides a simple procedure for resolution of charges of relatively minor misconduct committed by enlisted members of the military. The summary court-martial consists of one individual. That one officer acts both as prosecuting attorney and defense counsel. The maximum punishment at a summary court-martial varies with the accused's paygrade. If the accused is in the pay grade of E-4 or below, he or she can be sentenced to 30 days of confinement, reduction to pay grade E-1, or restriction for 60 days. Punishments for servicemembers in paygrades E-5 and higher are similar, except that they can only be reduced one paygrade and cannot be confined.

Military members who refuse UCMJ Article 15 nonjudicial punishment can be referred for special court-martial. Usually this decision is made after the commanding officer consults with the command's JAG officer. The accused must consent to trial by summary court-martial before the court can commence.

[edit] Special Court-Martial

A special court-martial is the intermediate court level. It consists of a military judge, trial counsel (prosecutor), defense counsel, and a minimum of three officers sitting as a panel of court members or jury. An enlisted accused may request a court composed of at least one-third enlisted personnel. An accused may also request trial by judge alone. Regardless of the offenses involved, a special court-martial sentence is limited to no more than forfeiture of two-thirds basic pay per month for one year, and additionally for enlisted personnel, one year confinement (or a lesser amount if the offenses have a lower maximum), and/or a bad-conduct discharge.

[edit] General Court-Martial

In a general court-martial, the maximum punishment is that set for each offense under the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM), and may include death (for certain offenses), confinement, a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge for enlisted personnel, a dismissal for officers, or a number of other forms of punishment. Before a case goes to a general court-martial, a pretrial investigation under Article 32 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice must be conducted, unless waived by the accused. An accused before any court-martial is entitled to free legal representation by military defense counsel (ADC-area defense counsel), and can also retain civilian counsel at his or her expense.

Courts-martial in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CO's Mast (what Article 15 is called in the Navy) doesn't come with a jury, and I think these men need to stand trial, not only because of the seriousness of the crime, but also so all evidence can be taken into account.

And........fwiw..........they may be able to be found not guilty.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You will never understand then will you? So leave the military to police it's own and go back to your warm fireplace. All is right with the world...........

How many corpses did you piss on?

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

We have high standards of conduct in our military.

If you want to piss on corpses, renounce your citizenship and join the ******* Taliban or go fight for mercenaries in Africa.

Otherwise, pay the consequences for your actions.

And one of those standards for both civilians and military is the right to be judged by our peers. The last thing America needs is one more idiotic armchair general. Maybe you should move to France; their military is probably already beyond help anyway.

These soldiers ARE being accused by and may ultimately judged by their military peers - and all I have stated is that those guilty of violating the law should be punished - so I don't see where you get off.

We have civilians who publicly dishonor our flag and spit on our soldiers but believe they know the moral high ground when it comes to killing in a civilized manner. Cute but silly.

Spitting on people is a criminal misdemeanor assault and those who spit on soldiers should be punished in accordance with the law. Do you disagree?

 

[The Gadfly]

How many corpses did you piss on?

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?

False dichotomy. It does, and it will. The point is that it should be applied, and judgment rendered, BY THE APPROPRIATE MILITARY AUTHORITIES, NOT BY YOU.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?

False dichotomy. It does, and it will. Period.

??? OK, thanks for the answer SFC Ollie.

 

[SFC Ollie]

How many corpses did you piss on?

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?

Of course, And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?

Of course,

Then I fail to see what we are arguing over, as we don't seem to have a point of disagreement

And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......

what should have never gotten this far?

 

[SFC Ollie]

So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?

Of course,

Then I fail to see what we are arguing over, as we don't seem to have a point of disagreement

And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......

what should have never gotten this far?

You, I, and the NYT should never have even heard about this............

 

[ABikerSailor]

Of course,

Then I fail to see what we are arguing over, as we don't seem to have a point of disagreement

And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......

what should have never gotten this far?

You, I, and the NYT should never have even heard about this............

Well, we WOULDN'T have if those men hadn't been stupid enough to post the video.

Shows a severe lack of discipline and good order.

By the way........quick question...........if you did something against military regs, and people found out about it 6 months to a year later, should you get to skate past punishment, because you saw someone else do it too?

 

[MaryL]

These guys kill people for a living. They are paid to kill the enemy. Violently. With extreme prejudice. Isn't this a little petty, to worry what they do with the enemy dead? Isn't this remarkably small minded? Pathetic. Tempest in a teapot. Killing them was BAD enough. Peeing on them and filming it and posting on the internet was stupid. But a crime? Youthful indiscretion, that's what this is. Stupid, yes. Petty and not worth bothering with, though.

 

[The Gadfly]

If that were any of your business I might answer that.
Now go stoke your fire and calm down. The professionals will handle it........

So military law should NOT apply to those in the military? Yes or no?

Of course, And military professionals will use military Law. It's called the uniform Code of military justice or UCMJ. I hope that they are offered a company grade Article 15 and that the press is never told their names.... Because it really should never have gotten this far.......

Unfortunately Ollie, it did, if only because some idiot recorded it. If someone had simply caught them doing it, it could have been kept at the company level. As it is, this really has to be field grade, I think. That's assuming it's an Article 134 (general) charge.

 

[Warrior102]

These soldiers ARE being accused by and may ultimately judged by their military peers - and all I have stated is that those guilty of violating the law should be punished - so I don't see where you get off.

They are not Soldiers, dumbfuck.

 

[MaryL]

The Taliban blew up a 1000+ year old Buddhist shrine, they threaten and kill schoolgirls for the crime of JUST trying to get an education. They slaughtered thousands in a soccer field in Kabul for little or no reason. They helped Osama bin Laden and his crew. Remind me again, why I am supposed to be outraged at what these Marines did?

 

[Sunshine]

United States Military professionals don't urinate on corpses.

Ahhhhh the sweet illlusions of a virgin! So sad reality sometimes makes an appearance.
If they were not United States Military professionals where did the corpses come from.

What the hell kind of logic is that? I know that the United States Military killed them, idiot. Corpses do not come pre-urinated on.

What the hell are you trying to get at? Because it makes no sense and has nothing to do with what I said.

Regarding your signature line which says: [Sunshine: "AHh so you think you will one day get to retire with health care. LOL. You will not. I'm using it all up so there won't be any left for you." ]

**** you. Some of us had enough sense to prepare for a rainy day. You will be out in the rain faster and longer that I ever will!