U.S. intel concludes China reported fake numbers to conceal true size of coronavirus outbreak

[Tom Paine 1949]

The video above is circulated by The Epoch Times newspaper, which is owned and operated by the sensationalist Falun Gong sect. My linked article explains something about them and their pro-Trump anti-CCP extremism. Of course the video is of a real incident. There have been many like it before. So what? Loosening of the Wuhan/Hubei travel restrictions are not now universal. They were reportedly opened — but the continued restrictions were not clear to many. After months of lockdown of course there are incidents like this. There is still fear that Covid-19 will re-emerge with the opening up of factories, internal travel, etc.

If an American or overseas Chinese flies into an airport in China without the right documents, or refuses to have his health cleared before entry, what do you expect would happen to them? China’s teaming cities, smaller apartment living and much poorer population require stricter controls than we would accept in the U.S. That other provinces support the controls, sometimes even fear the opening up, shows how complex the issue is in China. Sometimes media in one province will openly criticize leaders and even police activity in another — despite the over-riding censorship.

None of this treats directly of the question raised by the OP, but rather of larger issues of Chinese society and the difficult decisions made to stop the virus expanding, decisions which — in the very different American context — our leaders are also now facing.

Lastly, tens of thousands of migrant workers were stuck apart from their family and jobs by the sudden lockdowns just before the Lunar Festival. A little rioting is not surprising in the least when they are told that despite the long-awaited loosening of travel restrictions, not all can return.

 

[BWK]

LOL

HALF A MILLION CHINESE PEOPLE ENTERED AMERICA AT THE HEIGHT OF THE CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK
Open borders cost lives.


Meanwhile....................

We'll, here's a spoiler alert for you dumb ass, it's too fucking late now. You can either bellyache about China, or you can do what needs to be done, like stay your ass at the house, or we will look like Ecuador. Those are the two choices.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Probably millions infected there!

There is not a law concerning lying, except to the FBI, or tramp would of been locked up long ago.

How do we know our numbers are not a lie?? Do you?

Because we are not a lying Totalitarian Regime. I believe Italy and the UK too. You're a liar who lives in a fantasy world. Don't opine on my posts. I speak to adults not moronic children.

Trump is a liar. He lied about our supply chain. Say it isn't true? Prove it; The Rachel Maddow Show on msnbc – Latest News & Video

View attachment 318427

Then prove it. Don't post stupid memes that make you look like a royal dumb ass.

As soon as you admit you’re not an American. Then we can have a civil conversation

Donn't you love how these asses say prove it yet they can't even prove their side omg the irony.

You shouldn't be loving, what you can't disprove. Lol! Right wing Trump apologists are laser focused on changing the narrative to talk about China, when China is totally irrelevant at this point. The biggest problem we face right now is Trump using this opportunity to promote bidding wars for desperately needed supplies while people die, and Trumps focus is on profit. It's insane. Admiral defends federal government sending medical supplies to the private sector

You are not an American. Let us start there and then we can have an honest conversation. Until then you're just a fat loser troll.

You aren't worthy of any debate. You aren't prepared, and you make up lies. Go back into your hole. You only engage in stupid talk.

Either admit you’re not from America or state where in America you’re from. I am not asking for a lot here as I am 100% positive you’re not an American and you’re just trolling.

 

[MindWars]

LOL

HALF A MILLION CHINESE PEOPLE ENTERED AMERICA AT THE HEIGHT OF THE CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK
Open borders cost lives.


Meanwhile....................

We'll, here's a spoiler alert for you dumb ass, it's too fucking late now. You can either bellyache about China, or you can do what needs to be done, like stay your ass at the house, or we will look like Ecuador. Those are the two choices.

It is to bad u have no idea what retarded idiot you are and most of all your are severely iunnnformed dumb ass. You haven't even began nto see what's coming yet you stupid fk.

 

[Doc7505]

The video above is circulated by The Epoch Times newspaper, which is owned and operated by the sensationalist Falun Gong sect. My linked article explains something about them and their pro-Trump anti-CCP extremism. Of course the video is of a real incident. There have been many like it before. So what? Loosening of the Wuhan/Hubei travel restrictions are not now universal. They were reportedly opened — but the continued restrictions were not clear to many. After months of lockdown of course there are incidents like this. There is still fear that Covid-19 will re-emerge with the opening up of factories, internal travel, etc.

If an American or overseas Chinese flies into an airport in China without the right documents, or refuses to have his health cleared before entry, what do you expect would happen to them? China’s teaming cities, smaller apartment living and much poorer population require stricter controls than we would accept in the U.S. That other provinces support the controls, sometimes even fear the opening up, shows how complex the issue is in China. Sometimes media in one province will openly criticize leaders and even police activity in another — despite the over-riding censorship.

None of this treats directly of the question raised by the OP, but rather of larger issues of Chinese society and the difficult decisions made to stop the virus expanding, decisions which — in the very different American context — our leaders are also now facing.

Lastly, tens of thousands of migrant workers were stuck apart from their family and jobs by the sudden lockdowns just before the Lunar Festival. A little rioting is not surprising in the least when they are told that despite the long-awaited loosening of travel restrictions, not all can return.

~~~~~
Hmmm....., are you shilling for the Chinese too? I don't care what sect of Chinese they are as long as wee can get information from the closed gov't of China.
So you firmly believe the report of low known infections and deaths in China and claim that we are lying about our numbers here? So you don't believe that the average Chinese citizen is on the verge of rioting?
The funny thing is that Tom Paine was a rebel in his day and refused to be a shill for anyone... You show no "Common Sense" and no loyalty to America but only to your Leftist ideology besmirching the name of Mr. Paine..

 

[Olde Europe]

The U.S. mainstream media are everywhere reporting that U.S. security agencies have concluded China is hiding the real numbers of those infected and killed by Covid-19, and sent a secret report to Trump. But what is the reality? What does the report actually say about how many cases were hidden? When? Where? How was the information gathered? Why does everybody suddenly believe our security agencies?[/URL]

Here's the best account of the considerable number of fumbles that seem to have occurred. They fall, as expected, mostly on local officials covering their hindquarters, and trying to silence physicians. The early reporting system set up after the failures during the SARS outbreak earlier, of course, cannot work if physicians have to wait for the superiors to okay the information to be passed on to the central government. Too bad. The central authorities learned, belatedly, about the outbreak from rumors and leaks. Heads should roll over that. However, the notion that "China lied", implying Beijing did the tampering, seems wildly off the mark.

Could it be the records are still incomplete? That seems to be the case. So, where is the world leader calling Xi Jinping with the weight of both his personal integrity and a powerful state behind him, and capable of delivering a stern and diplomatic message he better step up and get his house in order?

 

[Natural Citizen]

There's about as much evidence that China lied about their stats as there is that the US is telling the truth about their stats.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The video above is circulated by The Epoch Times newspaper, which is owned and operated by the sensationalist Falun Gong sect. My linked article explains something about them and their pro-Trump anti-CCP extremism. Of course the video is of a real incident. There have been many like it before. So what? Loosening of the Wuhan/Hubei travel restrictions are not now universal. They were reportedly opened — but the continued restrictions were not clear to many. After months of lockdown of course there are incidents like this. There is still fear that Covid-19 will re-emerge with the opening up of factories, internal travel, etc.

If an American or overseas Chinese flies into an airport in China without the right documents, or refuses to have his health cleared before entry, what do you expect would happen to them? China’s teaming cities, smaller apartment living and much poorer population require stricter controls than we would accept in the U.S. That other provinces support the controls, sometimes even fear the opening up, shows how complex the issue is in China. Sometimes media in one province will openly criticize leaders and even police activity in another — despite the over-riding censorship.

None of this treats directly of the question raised by the OP, but rather of larger issues of Chinese society and the difficult decisions made to stop the virus expanding, decisions which — in the very different American context — our leaders are also now facing.

Lastly, tens of thousands of migrant workers were stuck apart from their family and jobs by the sudden lockdowns just before the Lunar Festival. A little rioting is not surprising in the least when they are told that despite the long-awaited loosening of travel restrictions, not all can return.

~~~~~
Hmmm....., are you shilling for the Chinese too? I don't care what sect of Chinese they are as long as wee can get information from the closed gov't of China.
So you firmly believe the report of low known infections and deaths in China and claim that we are lying about our numbers here? So you don't believe that the average Chinese citizen is on the verge of rioting?
The funny thing is that Tom Paine was a rebel in his day and refused to be a shill for anyone... You show no "Common Sense" and no loyalty to America but only to your Leftist ideology besmirching the name of Mr. Paine..

If you re-read my comments carefully you will see that all your charges against me are pure demagogy. I do in fact know that “average Chinese citizens” are NOT “on the verge of rioting.” The overall discipline and collective determination of Chinese to beat this virus is testified to by many thousands of reports, including from my own contacts in China. But there is always the chance that — especially if the virus returns or economic deterioration worsens — XiJinping will end up weakened or even removed. If the heavy handed censorship he introduced was also removed, that would be a real step forward!

 

[hjmick]

Max Blumenthal and The Greyzone...

Well, that's all I need to know! I'm sold!

 

[Olde Europe]

The U.S. mainstream media are everywhere reporting that U.S. security agencies have concluded China is hiding the real numbers of those infected and killed by Covid-19, and sent a secret report to Trump. But what is the reality? What does the report actually say about how many cases were hidden? When? Where? How was the information gathered? Why does everybody suddenly believe our security agencies?[/URL]

Here's the best account of the considerable number of fumbles that seem to have occurred. They fall, as expected, mostly on local officials covering their hindquarters, and trying to silence physicians. The early reporting system set up after the failures during the SARS outbreak earlier, of course, cannot work if physicians have to wait for the superiors to okay the information to be passed on to the central government. Too bad. The central authorities learned, belatedly, about the outbreak from rumors and leaks. Heads should roll over that. However, the notion that "China lied", implying Beijing did the tampering, seems wildly off the mark.

Could it be the records are still incomplete? That seems to be the case. So, where is the world leader calling Xi Jinping with the weight of both his personal integrity and a powerful state behind him, and capable of delivering a stern and diplomatic message he better step up and get his house in order?

Just found this, demonstrating why authoritarian systems are such gross failures dealing with rather unfortunate information. Remember Captain Crozier, the captain of the aircraft carrier who wrote a desperate letter to demand that action be taken to save his crew from the coronavirus, after he got no help following quieter requests? Here goes:

As part of his extended explanation of why he removed Captain Crozier, Mr. Modly asserted at a news conference Thursday that the release of Captain Crozier’s letter had panicked the crew and family members, and embarrassed the Navy’s leadership.​

Yeah, thousands of lives at risk, but don't you dare to embarrass the so-called "leadership" while trying to save the sailors. Mr. Modly should be run out of the room, head-first, through a firmly-shut door for firing Captain Crozier, along with those ordering him to do it. That is not so because the firing is plainly wrong, though it is, but because similar situations will see captains shut up, and rather save their careers, putting their underlings at risk. And that's pretty much what happened in China.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The U.S. mainstream media are everywhere reporting that U.S. security agencies have concluded China is hiding the real numbers of those infected and killed by Covid-19, and sent a secret report to Trump. But what is the reality? What does the report actually say about how many cases were hidden? When? Where? How was the information gathered? Why does everybody suddenly believe our security agencies?[/URL]

Here's the best account of the considerable number of fumbles that seem to have occurred. They fall, as expected, mostly on local officials covering their hindquarters, and trying to silence physicians. The early reporting system set up after the failures during the SARS outbreak earlier, of course, cannot work if physicians have to wait for the superiors to okay the information to be passed on to the central government. Too bad. The central authorities learned, belatedly, about the outbreak from rumors and leaks. Heads should roll over that. However, the notion that "China lied", implying Beijing did the tampering, seems wildly off the mark.

Could it be the records are still incomplete? That seems to be the case. So, where is the world leader calling Xi Jinping with the weight of both his personal integrity and a powerful state behind him, and capable of delivering a stern and diplomatic message he better step up and get his house in order?

Thanks for your own balanced remarks. The article you linked to, China Created a Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed. , seems to be a perceptive explanation of the bureaucratic failures that delayed the response that was needed. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[Contumacious]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Lefties, cut your bullshit about racism and state or question if China as a global citizen and nation is doing its “fair share”?

China Government is for China Government and cares only about itself and be damn with anyone else including their citizens!

Respectfully disagree. The CIA had built a site to weaponize viruses in .......drum roll .........Wuhan China


"The same day that the lab was controversially allowed to partially reopen, which was the result of heavy lobbying from the Pentagon, local news outlets reported that the lab had suffered “two breaches of containment” last year, though the nature of those breaches and the pathogens involved were redacted in the inspection findings report obtained by the Frederick News Post. Notably, USAMRIID has, since the 1980s, worked closely with virologists and virology labs in Wuhan, China, where the first epicenter of the current novel Coronavirus (Covid-19) cases emerged. The Chinese government has since alleged that the virus had been brought to China by members of the U.S. military, members of which attended the World Military Games in the country last October. "

Is that the official Chinese Government line that the U.S. unleashed the virus?

Then why not take it to the U.N. and have the WHO investigate it with giving all information to be reviewed?

I bet China Government will refuse and say the evidence is no longer in their control or was destroyed by accident!

View attachment 318110
The U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick.

Sloppiness and carelessness at Fort Detrick has been well documented by the Frederick News Post .

But if you were paying attention to the events prior to December 2019 you knew that Netanyahu had asked US warmongers and Likudnicks to destroy Iran, Sanctions were imposed on Iran but China continued doing business with Iran.

Suddenly at a site where the CIA has a lab, Wuhan, a deadly virus is unleashed which affects China and Iran.

You do the math,

.

The virus was not produced in a lab.

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Controversial US scientist creates deadly new flu strain for pandemic research

Yoshihiro Kawaoka (left) and Ron Fouchier (right) in 2012, after their work with H5N1 bird flu virus sparked a global controversy over research that can potentially make pathogens more dangerous to humans.
Martin Enserink/Science

A controversial scientist who carried out provocative research on making influenza viruses more infectious has completed his most dangerous experiment to date by deliberately creating a pandemic strain of flu that can evade the human immune system.


Yoshihiro Kawaoka of the University of Wisconsin-Madison has genetically manipulated the 2009 strain of pandemic flu in order for it to “escape” the control of the immune system’s
neutralising antibodies, effectively making the human population defenceless against its reemergence.


.

 

[linux07]

 

[Olde Europe]

Thanks for your own balanced remarks. The article you linked to, China Created a Fail-Safe System to Track Contagions. It Failed. , seems to be a perceptive explanation of the bureaucratic failures that delayed the response that was needed. Thanks for pointing it out!

You're welcome, Tom, though I don't think I deserve anything by way of "thanks".

I'd say, whatever information we glean from reporting is foremost to inform ourselves and clarify our thinking, maybe even contradicting habitual, and therefore nigh on imperceptible, biases. China is an admirable country, with enormous and egregious flaws, but not nearly the monster the cold warriors and communist haters, unable to learn a thing since McCarthy, would depict.

That said, that benighted propaganda plot - screaming "China, China, China!!!" at the top of their lungs to distract from the Orange moron's bumbling incompetence, downplaying and belittling the pandemic, not to mention the disorganized and belated response - needs to be exposed. That's not just because Trump and the servile media environment in support of Trump's habitual mendacity shouldn't get away with it, but, more importantly, from that mendacious narrative nothing useful can be learned for future outbreaks. And learn we must.

 

[P@triot]

The left-wing ideology has imposed more mass murder and misery on mankind than everything else combined. It's intolerable that we sit by while the entire planet pays the ultimate price for the communist regime in China. It's time they are removed from power.

Chinese Regime Concealing True Number of COVID-19 Cases, Evidence Shows

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[bluzman61]

The left-wing ideology has imposed more mass murder and misery on mankind than everything else combined. It's intolerable that we sit by while the entire planet pays the ultimate price for the communist regime in China. It's time they are removed from power.

Chinese Regime Concealing True Number of COVID-19 Cases, Evidence Shows

www.theepochtimes.com

Yep.

 

[MarcATL]

The left-wing ideology has imposed more mass murder and misery on mankind than everything else combined. It's intolerable that we sit by while the entire planet pays the ultimate price for the communist regime in China. It's time they are removed from power.

Chinese Regime Concealing True Number of COVID-19 Cases, Evidence Shows

www.theepochtimes.com

Which one in power, responsible for this travesty I assume, would you like us to remove first sir?

 

[Unkotare]

The left-wing ideology has imposed more mass murder and misery on mankind than everything else combined. It's intolerable that we sit by while the entire planet pays the ultimate price for the communist regime in China. It's time they are removed from power.

Chinese Regime Concealing True Number of COVID-19 Cases, Evidence Shows

www.theepochtimes.com

So, you want to go to war?

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

 

[Pogo]

The left-wing ideology has imposed more mass murder and misery on mankind than everything else combined. It's intolerable that we sit by while the entire planet pays the ultimate price for the communist regime in China. It's time they are removed from power.

Chinese Regime Concealing True Number of COVID-19 Cases, Evidence Shows

www.theepochtimes.com

Go take care of it, Buttsoiler. Need help packing? Oh wait, I remember you can evacuate for a hurricane in 20 minutes. Guess you're already enroute.