TWA 800 Lawsuit

Lawsuit against Raytheon has been unfolding for years. Reports from pilots and others originally claimed of ordnance going from ground to altitude. All were said to have been wrong. I was sure it was a coverup over a missile test, and now it may be what happened.

Ronald Krick is the father of Oliver Krick, a 25-year-old student flight engineer killed in the crash. Krick has been joined in the suit by relatives of other deceased passengers and crew. The defendants are the Raytheon Company, the Lockheed Martin Corporation, and the United States government.

The Krick suit gained momentum when it absorbed information gleaned from a FOIA suit brought by Tom Stalcup, a no-nonsense physicist who has been pursuing this case since he was a grad student in 1996. To establish his claims Stalcup was granted subpoena power and was able to depose several key witnesses from within the investigation.
_________________
—After the incident, the federal government released a false report contending that the explosion was the result of an electrical fire in the airplane’s center fuel tank.

—Only recently, thanks to the work of physicist, Dr. Thomas Stalcup, through his Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) litigation in Massachusetts federal court, has evidence emerged proving that TWA 800’s explosion was not caused by any defect in the airplane, but instead by an errant United States missile fired at aerial target drones flying nearby.

—The evidence unearthed by Dr. Stalcup establishes that the United States, including its agencies, such as the United States Missile Defense Agency (formerly known as the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization), the United States Department of Defense, and the United States Navy (the “Government Defendants”), acting in concert and working side-by-side with Raytheon Company and Lockheed Martin Corporation (the “Contractor Defendants”) and DOES 1 through 20, inclusive (collectively the “Defendants”) were testing the Aegis Weapons System and firing SM-2 missiles with live warheads from warship(s) at aerial missile targets off the coast of New York in close proximity to commercial airline flight paths. One such missile struck TWA flight 800, causing it to break apart and crash into the Atlantic Ocean, killing everyone aboard.

—Newly discovered evidence also shows that these Defendants engaged in a top-down cover-up to prevent the public from learning the truth about TWA 800. Proof of this cover-up, and of Defendants’ underlying culpability for the crash, was only recently unearthed by Dr. Stalcup after more than a decade of FOIA litigation against the Government Defendants.


Anyone else think it's interesting that Boeing is not named anywhere? And if it is a cover-up, think about the damage that has been done "unnecessarily" to Boeing's name & reputation. At least up until it began screwing around with the design of the 737 resulting in the MAX.
 
Anyone else think it's interesting that Boeing is not named anywhere? And if it is a cover-up, think about the damage that has been done "unnecessarily" to Boeing's name & reputation. At least up until it began screwing around with the design of the 737 resulting in the MAX.
Actually, that's a topic for a different thread.
 
Lawsuit against Raytheon has been unfolding for years. Reports from pilots and others originally claimed of ordnance going from ground to altitude. All were said to have been wrong. I was sure it was a coverup over a missile test, and now it may be what happened.

Ronald Krick is the father of Oliver Krick, a 25-year-old student flight engineer killed in the crash. Krick has been joined in the suit by relatives of other deceased passengers and crew. The defendants are the Raytheon Company, the Lockheed Martin Corporation, and the United States government.

The Krick suit gained momentum when it absorbed information gleaned from a FOIA suit brought by Tom Stalcup, a no-nonsense physicist who has been pursuing this case since he was a grad student in 1996. To establish his claims Stalcup was granted subpoena power and was able to depose several key witnesses from within the investigation.
_________________
—After the incident, the federal government released a false report contending that the explosion was the result of an electrical fire in the airplane’s center fuel tank.

—Only recently, thanks to the work of physicist, Dr. Thomas Stalcup, through his Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) litigation in Massachusetts federal court, has evidence emerged proving that TWA 800’s explosion was not caused by any defect in the airplane, but instead by an errant United States missile fired at aerial target drones flying nearby.

—The evidence unearthed by Dr. Stalcup establishes that the United States, including its agencies, such as the United States Missile Defense Agency (formerly known as the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization), the United States Department of Defense, and the United States Navy (the “Government Defendants”), acting in concert and working side-by-side with Raytheon Company and Lockheed Martin Corporation (the “Contractor Defendants”) and DOES 1 through 20, inclusive (collectively the “Defendants”) were testing the Aegis Weapons System and firing SM-2 missiles with live warheads from warship(s) at aerial missile targets off the coast of New York in close proximity to commercial airline flight paths. One such missile struck TWA flight 800, causing it to break apart and crash into the Atlantic Ocean, killing everyone aboard.

—Newly discovered evidence also shows that these Defendants engaged in a top-down cover-up to prevent the public from learning the truth about TWA 800. Proof of this cover-up, and of Defendants’ underlying culpability for the crash, was only recently unearthed by Dr. Stalcup after more than a decade of FOIA litigation against the Government Defendants.


Going to start with this excerpt from the article you linked.;
...
—his evidence reveals that the United States and its agencies, acting in concert with Contractor Defendants, conducted initial operational tests of the SPY-ID(V) radar upgrade with testing that involved firing at least one missile with a live warhead in May of 1996. This testing—firing live warheads off the coast of New Jersey and New York—was “a departure from prior practices.” The Department of Defense urged the missile system to proceed “as quickly as possible to production and deployment” to increase defense capabilities. Consequently, the Senate Committee approved the funding and the Navy accelerated testing and development of the next-generation Aegis missile system. Instead of conducting testing away from potential flight paths of other aircrafts, SPY-ID(V) was tested on an expedited basis in and around a land-based testing site called the Combat Systems Engineering and Development Site (“CSEDS”) in New Jersey, which is a highly congested area.
...

Combat System Engineering Development Site (CSEDS)

Is located in the middle of New Jersey and quite a distance from where TWA-800 was hit and crashed, off of Long Island.
That's also about halfway between Washington D.C. and New York City, so yes (duh ) a highly air traffic congested area, even when several miles off shore.
This link has a map showing where the CSEDS is in New Jersey. Click the " - " (minus) tab and the map zones out to show more of the local area, neighboring states, etc.
This is the larger map you can get if you click the smaller one and then click the tab at upper Left "View Larger Map" - which shows several states, most of the NE USA. Note that CSEDS is just NE of Philadelphia.
........
As for the missile the Navy was using and which it's claimed shot down TWA-800, here's what such looks like;
1752456983564.webp

As you can see, it's a fairly large missile. With a warhead that would produce a much larger explosion than was claimed to have happened.
Here's an image of a typical launch;
1752457076782.webp

And now, some text and data about the SM-2 missile;
....

Standard Missile 2​

The RIM-66C/D Standard MR (SM-2MR Block I) was developed in the 1970s and was a key part of the Aegis combat system and New Threat Upgrade (NTU). The SM-2MR introduced inertial and command mid-course guidance. The missile's autopilot is programmed to fly the most efficient path to the target and can receive course corrections from the ground. Target illumination for semi-active homing is needed only for a few seconds in the terminal phase of the interception. This capability enables the Aegis combat system and New Threat Upgrade equipped vessels to time-share illumination radars, greatly increasing the number of targets that can be engaged in quick succession.<a href="RIM-66 Standard - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a>
....

The plain English here is that the launch vessel first gets a radar fix on the target, feeds that data to the missile, and then guides it to the target based on radar update while the missile is in flight. As the missile closes in on the target, it's own systems will "see" the target and focus the drive to it.

So there are a couple of unresolved items here.
1) we could use exact data on which ship was firing the missile and what it's position on the map and relative CSEDS was.
2) We need to see data sowing that there was an actual radar target lock-on to flight TWA-800.
3) We need someone, or more, from the crew of that ship to come forward with witness testimony that the ship actually targeted the airliner and fired at it.

I haven't seen any of the above essentials and don't intend to chase down that rabbit hole because a US Navy missile shoot down is not case to make. I'm highly skeptical and the lack of the specifics I mentioned above underscore that.

On to next post with some links and data on what might have really happened.
 
So I'll dive into this site and it's pages which present a good case for MANPADS/Stinger shoot down.
....

The Flight 800 Investigation​

Evidence of FBI Missile Search - April 5, 1999​

Over the past several months Cmdr. Donaldson has uncovered significant new information that clearly shows that Flight 800 was shot down by oneor more shoulder-fired missiles, that the FBI, the Justice Department and the Administration knew this from the beginning and spent the last 2 1/2years trying to contain that fact. The highlights of this new information are contained in a letter to the CEOs of Boeing and TWA, dated April 5, 1999. The letter is in PDF format and will require Adobe Acrobat Reader. The letter is also available in text format.

Additional documents from the Navy's Supervisor of Salvage Report includes:

distribution
Wreckage Distribution Diagram - pdf format or gif format.




1752458243399.gif


LaunchZone
Trawling Map (pdf format) which shows "Per FBI: Possible Missile Launch Zone". This version of the Trawling map comes from the Supervisor of Salvage Report.The version provided to the Trawler captains has the "Possible Missile Launch Zone" (gif format) annotated. You can see from the annotated version of the trawling map that the trawling effort was specifically coordinated to cover what the FBI thought was the radius of the maximum range of the Stinger missile, 2.7 nautical miles.


1752458396266.gif

I'm going to break this up into a few posts for easier "digesting".
 
Last edited:
Search Area Diagram (pdf format) as shown in the Supervisor of Salvage report.
search
When you overlay the FBI trawling area of 2.7 NM, (gif format), to recover parts of the aircraft and on the larger Search Area Diagram you can clearly see the purpose of the trawling effort was not bodies as claimed by the NTSB and FBI. It was focused only on the 2.7 NM radius of a possible MANPADS missile. Most of the search area was north and west of the flight path, areas where there was no expected debris from the crash.



1752458608648.gif


Islip Radar
The purpose of the Dredging Operation is even more evident when you overlay the dredged area with the Islip Radar contacts (gif format) from the point of the last Secondary return (20:30 to 20:50). It clearly shows the 30 knot radar contact was within the radius of the short-range version of the Stinger when the aircraft exploded and fled the area at high speed over the next 20 minutes. It is clear that the dredging operation was for the purpose of recovering the missile evidence and the last scavenge pump. However, if they really wanted to find the last scavenge pump, they would have dredged the area where the majority of the wreckage was located.

1752458703271.gif


The FBI manned the trawlers hired to dredge up debris 24 hours a day.They were specifically looking for three items: a Stinger Missile Ejector-motor can, the Stinger Battery Cooling Unit, and the last Scavenge Pump which has not yet been found. Their intention was to conceal the discovery of these items from other Interested Parties, which includes TWA and Boeing.

This is documented in the FBI Trawler Operations Manual, which the FBI left behind on one of the trawlers. Other documents provided to the FBI missile-team clearly show that a shoulder-fired missile could have shot down Flight 800.
.....
 
Last edited:
MORE ...

The China Lake Naval Warfare Center report on the possibility of a MANPADS missile impact is inconclusive with respect to whether or not a shoulder-fired missile could have penetrated the wing tank adjacent to the CWT and exploded in the fuel. However, all of the damage to the left wing and left CWT side wall is consistent with this type of impact. They recommend several follow up tests to determine conclusively if a shoulder-fired missile was responsible, but neither the NTSB or the FBI requested that the tests be conducted.

The FBI Agents, who have been ordered not to answer Cmdr. Donaldson's questions in the past, have now been ordered to avoid all contact. His calls to NTSB officials are now answered only by their attorneys. Because Cmdr. Donaldson was brought into the Sanders case as a defense consultant,he was first able to see detailed photographs,taken by Mr. Sanders of the Center Tank left side of body wall fracture pieces, in late March. These pictures were taken by Mr. Sanders at there quest of Cmdr Donaldson during the discovery trial phase as allowed by a Federal judge. The pictures strongly suggest the left side of body wall of the center tank was blown into the tank at extremely high energy, not outward as the NTSB theory implies. When Cmdr. Donaldson called the NTSB and left voice-mail requesting to see the NTSB "Fracture Edge Analysis" of CWT left side of body wall parts, an NTSB attorney called back in minutes in a somewhat anxious state. The lawyer suggested such testing need not be done. Incredulous, Cmdr Donaldson informed him that any NTSB Final Report blaming a center wing tank failure without determining which way that wall exploded would be a farce.

This following is interesting because a Stinger/MANPADS locks on to a infra-red heat signature the vents under the center fuel tank, for the auxiliary power units, are what would be the focus if the aircraft was approaching the firing location.

thermal
A Thermal Imaging photograph provided by military experts shows that a MANPADS missile would guide on the three Air Packs located directly below the Center Fuel Tank.




1752459229778.gif


The Stinger Man PortableAir Defense System (MANPADS) is representative of many such systems availableto terrorists groups.
1752459290877.gif


1752459304917.webp


 
Last edited:
And last ....
triangle
Triangulation of witness sightings: PDFformat or GIFformat.
The above is only a small sample of the information collected from hundreds of witnesses and others involved in the investigation who have come forward and volunteered information after ARAPs full page ad ran in the New York Times last fall. We have access to 107 witnesses on 4 aircraft,19 boats, and 31 locations ashore. They were located in a 360°circle around the missile engagement. Their live testimony alone will provethe aircraft was shot down. This is why the Justice Department has keptair crash investigators away from witnesses for 2 1/2 years and also onereason they are conducting a malicious show-trial prosecution of authorand outside investigator James Sanders and his wife. We now believe thereis sufficient evidence for a Grand Jury to bring indictments for a cover-upof the Felony Murder of 230 innocent people.

1752459411937.gif


 
Last edited:
About 15 years ago I was talking to a buddy of mine whose been in the military forever. He told me that he knows some of the people who did the investigation. He said there is no doubt it was a missile, but it was not a Stinger. The plane was shot down at like 12,000 feet. The stinger is only good up to about 8 or 9k at best. He said it was a missile from a boat completely on accident. He said they were doing live fire exercises in the area and the missile accidentally locked onto TWA800. He said the entire thing was a cover up to try to hide the fact that our US Navy shot down one of our civilian airliners. It was absolutely 100% on accident, however.

Boeing was told to keep their mouth shut or else. I mean we've had hundreds of thousands of flights of 747's with an empty center fuel tank and they never exploded. If Boeing really had such a dangerous airplane in that configuration, you would think we'd have had more than one flight blow up in such a manner.

Think about that.
 
I haven't seen any of the above essentials and don't intend to chase down that rabbit hole because a US Navy missile shoot down is not case to make. I'm highly skeptical and the lack of the specifics I mentioned above underscore that.
Just happened to be a missile test in one of the east coast most aviation congested corridors......using Aegis systems.
 
Raytheon Company and Lockheed Martin Corporation were testing the Aegis Weapons System and firing SM-2 missiles with live warheads from warship(s) at aerial missile targets off the coast of New York in close proximity to commercial airline flight paths. One such missile struck TWA flight 800, causing it to break apart and crash into the Atlantic Ocean, killing everyone aboard.

Next time maybe people will wise up and wear their life preservers. :smoke:
 
About 15 years ago I was talking to a buddy of mine whose been in the military forever. He told me that he knows some of the people who did the investigation. He said there is no doubt it was a missile, but it was not a Stinger. The plane was shot down at like 12,000 feet. The stinger is only good up to about 8 or 9k at best. He said it was a missile from a boat completely on accident. He said they were doing live fire exercises in the area and the missile accidentally locked onto TWA800. He said the entire thing was a cover up to try to hide the fact that our US Navy shot down one of our civilian airliners. It was absolutely 100% on accident, however.

Boeing was told to keep their mouth shut or else. I mean we've had hundreds of thousands of flights of 747's with an empty center fuel tank and they never exploded. If Boeing really had such a dangerous airplane in that configuration, you would think we'd have had more than one flight blow up in such a manner.

Think about that.
Where in the airplane reconstruction was there any evidence of a missile hit?
 
15th post
About 15 years ago I was talking to a buddy of mine whose been in the military forever. He told me that he knows some of the people who did the investigation. He said there is no doubt it was a missile, but it was not a Stinger. The plane was shot down at like 12,000 feet. The stinger is only good up to about 8 or 9k at best. He said it was a missile from a boat completely on accident. He said they were doing live fire exercises in the area and the missile accidentally locked onto TWA800. He said the entire thing was a cover up to try to hide the fact that our US Navy shot down one of our civilian airliners. It was absolutely 100% on accident, however.

Boeing was told to keep their mouth shut or else. I mean we've had hundreds of thousands of flights of 747's with an empty center fuel tank and they never exploded. If Boeing really had such a dangerous airplane in that configuration, you would think we'd have had more than one flight blow up in such a manner.

Think about that.
Why would the US gov hide that? We paid Iran tens of millions when the navy shot down one of their airliners. It’s not like the fed would go bankrupt from paying out a huge settlement. They’d just print and tax to get the money.
 
The plane, reports say, broke in half, witnesses thought the aircraft, containing the wings, was a missle being shot at it, but it was on fire and flew straight up, and this is why witnesses thought they saw a missile.



And you buy that? I never did and I’m not one to latch on to conspiracy theories
 
Anyone else think it's interesting that Boeing is not named anywhere? And if it is a cover-up, think about the damage that has been done "unnecessarily" to Boeing's name & reputation. At least up until it began screwing around with the design of the 737 resulting in the MAX.
Boeing is mentioned quite a few places in the reports, and articles.
The Max has a great track record and was not a "screwing around" on the 737 design. Those two recent crashes were more a case of poor pilot training on the avionics (instruments and controls) upgrades. Especially what could be aglitch or flaw in one of the functions of the autopilot system
 
Great post.

Don't buy into the manpad.
The US Navy "accidental shoot down" would involve hundreds of officers, enlisted, and civilians active in the missile testing at the time and would be witness to the "boo-boo". All these years and none of them have come forward to tell the tale.

Along with the reasons I've presented in the posts and links, MANPADS is more plausible. IMO

My other reservations;
1) The name of the ship(s) have not been presented.
2) Where specifically were the Ship(s) in position and distance from coast of New Jersey and New York.
3) No record of missiles launched and what time of such to see if they match flight time of TWA-800.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom