TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[presonorek]

Oh... so you want to define God by the Bible that you don't believe

Correct. I specifically mentioned the God character of the Bible. I promise you are the only frustrated, dense person here that had to have this explained to him.

I can describe Huckleberry Finn and Huckleberry Finn is a fictional character. Ding is slippery as pond algae. He gets it. He claims that just because God is a fictional character that you can’t describe the attributes that God is given within the given texts. He gets it. Trust me. He does. He doesn’t strike me as a stupid person but I could be wrong.

 

[presonorek]

Your entire condemnation of respect for people of faith is because they are spiritual and you are a materialist who opposes spiritualism.

I don't condemn that, or people of faith. Just another in a long series of madeup dingbrainvomit that you invent to justify being a sphincter.

Yeah... you do.

There lots of practicing Christians that will be honest and say they are relying on God through faith. You claim to know things for a fact about God that aren’t even in the Bible. That’s pretty hecking inflammatory to atheists and Christians alike. Not all religious people spread lies constantly in the way that you have done.

 

[ding]

Oh... so you want to define God by the Bible that you don't believe

Correct. I specifically mentioned the God character of the Bible. I promise you are the only frustrated, dense person here that had to have this explained to him.

I can describe Huckleberry Finn and Huckleberry Finn is a fictional character. Ding is slippery as pond algae. He gets it. He claims that just because God is a fictional character that you can’t describe the attributes that God is given within the given texts. He gets it. Trust me. He does. He doesn’t strike me as a stupid person but I could be wrong.

You are wrong. I am really stupid. Th problem is I am not stupid enough to be an atheist.

 

[ding]

Your entire condemnation of respect for people of faith is because they are spiritual and you are a materialist who opposes spiritualism.

I don't condemn that, or people of faith. Just another in a long series of madeup dingbrainvomit that you invent to justify being a sphincter.

Yeah... you do.

There lots of practicing Christians that will be honest and say they are relying on God through faith. You claim to know things for a fact about God that aren’t even in the Bible. That’s pretty hecking inflammatory to atheists and Christians alike. Not all religious people spread lies constantly in the way that you have done.

I'm sorry that my conviction disturbs some people. I'm disturbed by people chewing with their mouths open but I don't make them change their ways just for me. I just look the other way when I see them doing it.

I totally rely on God. We all do. And I have faith in God too. Faith that everything works for good for those that love Him. That's how I have peace through the storm. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Don't be upset with me because I have chosen the better portion, Martha. It won't be taken away from me. I can only give it away.

 

[Meriweather]

The Bible speaks about God giving everyone a certain measure of faith. I’m not closed to the idea that God calls some to be atheist. That was the point I was trying to make with this thread when I posted the OP.

That's kind of like saying because teachers record grades, teachers call some to be failures.

Let's start with God wants people to know Him. So some read the Bible and think about God killing babies (the Great Flood); God approving slavery (Law books); God not answering all prayers (Anything you ask for in prayer...) That mankind is totally depraved (well, that's Calvin, but you get the point, that God made us depraved).

Conclusions: God wouldn't act like that; therefore no God. God doesn't answer my sincere prayers, therefore no God. The Bible flat out tells us that humans cannot fully understand God, a cop-out, therefore no God. Then there are those who honestly say, "I don't want to be bothered with God", therefore choose atheism.

Atheism is simply a failure to know God. God didn't call you to fail;

I very much doubt God thinks any less of of anyone who does fail in knowing Him. (I am a failure as an artist, a rocket scientist, etc, but no one hates me for these failures.) God knows this life is just as much learning about who we are; knowing who we can be. Failing in this would be the greater failure.

 

[BreezeWood]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

So dying on a cross to salvage your eternal life wasn't enough? What more do you require? That He fulfills your desires? That He gives you unlimited riches? A sign perhaps?

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.

You will be judged by how you judge others.

subjectively

.
where that ever came from needs to be put to rest - it is not - subjective - to ever judge at all.
.
.

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.
believed what ram - christianity, how without your book. would you really know your messiah without it. to believe dying a sinner is the ticket to heaven. not from the 1st century you wouldn't.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.
the liberation theology the itinerant died for, triumph over evil, is not to be found in your 4th century book - nor have you brought to justice those that crucified them - or those followers that did believe in their message likewise put to death - till misconstrued, the christian bible rewards the crucifiers and was written by them -

good luck ram, content with living in sin. you are not a follower of who died otherwise. than to sin and stay alive.

 

[ding]

The Bible speaks about God giving everyone a certain measure of faith. I’m not closed to the idea that God calls some to be atheist. That was the point I was trying to make with this thread when I posted the OP.

That's kind of like saying because teachers record grades, teachers call some to be failures.

Let's start with God wants people to know Him. So some read the Bible and think about God killing babies (the Great Flood); God approving slavery (Law books); God not answering all prayers (Anything you ask for in prayer...) That mankind is totally depraved (well, that's Calvin, but you get the point, that God made us depraved).

Conclusions: God wouldn't act like that; therefore no God. God doesn't answer my sincere prayers, therefore no God. The Bible flat out tells us that humans cannot fully understand God, a cop-out, therefore no God. Then there are those who honestly say, "I don't want to be bothered with God", therefore choose atheism.

Atheism is simply a failure to know God. God didn't call you to fail;

I very much doubt God thinks any less of of anyone who does fail in knowing Him. (I am a failure as an artist, a rocket scientist, etc, but no one hates me for these failures.) God knows this life is just as much learning about who we are; knowing who we can be. Failing in this would be the greater failure.

That's consistent with my belief that God works the same way in everyone's lives... even in the lives of those that don't believe in Him. It's just that the ones who recognize how God works in their lives have greater peace through the storms and are more apt to progress because they are constantly asking what it was that God wanted them to learn from their experiences (both good and bad).

 

[ding]

Whaddaya get when a coconut falls on your noggin?
.
.
.
.
.
ding!

I've had worse said about me here.

 

[ding]

Oh... so you want to define God by the Bible that you don't believe

Correct. I specifically mentioned the God character of the Bible. I promise you are the only frustrated, dense person here that had to have this explained to him.

I can describe Huckleberry Finn and Huckleberry Finn is a fictional character. Ding is slippery as pond algae. He gets it. He claims that just because God is a fictional character that you can’t describe the attributes that God is given within the given texts. He gets it. Trust me. He does. He doesn’t strike me as a stupid person but I could be wrong.

Not sure where you are getting the idea from that I believe God is a fictional character or His attributes can't be described. Because that sounds more like the position of the atheists who post in this forum. The problem that you and FF have is that YOU have no realistic perception of God beyond fairy tale. Which is why everything you look at is skewed to fairy tale. There is literally nothing you will accept that is counter to this position. I can tell you both that the only way ancient man could pass down information was through oral accounts which were told in a story fashion and used allegorical narratives so that the information could be more easily remembered and passed down and you both scream... fairy tale. Which is a wholly unreasonable and an anti-intellectual position.

As for my perception of God which I believe is consistent with ancient man's understanding of God.... There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional beyond energy and matter being outside of all space time. The closest I could come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.

 

[Meriweather]

That's consistent with my belief that God works the same way in everyone's lives... even in the lives of those that don't believe in Him. It's just that the ones who recognize how God works in their lives have greater peace through the storms and are more apt to progress because they are constantly asking what it was that God wanted them to learn from their experiences (both good and bad).

And that God is with them through good times and bad.

 

[ding]

That's consistent with my belief that God works the same way in everyone's lives... even in the lives of those that don't believe in Him. It's just that the ones who recognize how God works in their lives have greater peace through the storms and are more apt to progress because they are constantly asking what it was that God wanted them to learn from their experiences (both good and bad).

And that God is with them through good times and bad.

I have no doubt of that. Even if they do.

As for myself, I feel His presence more strongly when things aren't going well. I'm not saying that's my first response because it usually isn't. But if I can find something to be thankful for then His presence floods into me and I see all the things I could have done different. As a result, I progress forward and am better armed for the future. Such that future storms don't produce the same chaos within and I am able to respond much better for it.

 

[BreezeWood]

Oh... so you want to define God by the Bible that you don't believe

Correct. I specifically mentioned the God character of the Bible. I promise you are the only frustrated, dense person here that had to have this explained to him.

I can describe Huckleberry Finn and Huckleberry Finn is a fictional character. Ding is slippery as pond algae. He gets it. He claims that just because God is a fictional character that you can’t describe the attributes that God is given within the given texts. He gets it. Trust me. He does. He doesn’t strike me as a stupid person but I could be wrong.

Not sure where you are getting the idea from that I believe God is a fictional character or His attributes can't be described. Because that sounds more like the position of the atheists who post in this forum. The problem that you and FF have is that YOU have no realistic perception of God beyond fairy tale. Which is why everything you look at is skewed to fairy tale. There is literally nothing you will accept that is counter to this position. I can tell you both that the only way ancient man could pass down information was through oral accounts which were told in a story fashion and used allegorical narratives so that the information could be more easily remembered and passed down and you both scream... fairy tale. Which is a wholly unreasonable and an anti-intellectual position.

As for my perception of God which I believe is consistent with ancient man's understanding of God.... There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional beyond energy and matter being outside of all space time. The closest I could come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.

.

I can tell you both that the only way ancient man could pass down information was through oral accounts which were told in a story fashion and used allegorical narratives so that the information could be more easily remembered and passed down and you both scream... fairy tale. Which is a wholly unreasonable and an anti-intellectual position.

.
that is not true and certainly not true during the 1st century ...
.

.
and you haven't the faintest idea for oral tradition, it would be as succinct with as few words as possible - the true oral versions that are real. as well as visually verifiable.

what by the 1st century itinerant or their scribe if they had one was etched in stone. or in clay reliefs.

have you any real idea what you believe in really, sinner - - > what is the evidence for your book - when you bad mouth the religion of antiquity passed down centuries from life's beginning its oral and visual form without flaw - the triumph of good vs evil - to accomplish admission to the Everlasting by a freed spirit - - and is a contradiction to christianity and all three desert religions that have abandoned their own heritage.

 

[ding]

Oh... so you want to define God by the Bible that you don't believe

Correct. I specifically mentioned the God character of the Bible. I promise you are the only frustrated, dense person here that had to have this explained to him.

I can describe Huckleberry Finn and Huckleberry Finn is a fictional character. Ding is slippery as pond algae. He gets it. He claims that just because God is a fictional character that you can’t describe the attributes that God is given within the given texts. He gets it. Trust me. He does. He doesn’t strike me as a stupid person but I could be wrong.

Not sure where you are getting the idea from that I believe God is a fictional character or His attributes can't be described. Because that sounds more like the position of the atheists who post in this forum. The problem that you and FF have is that YOU have no realistic perception of God beyond fairy tale. Which is why everything you look at is skewed to fairy tale. There is literally nothing you will accept that is counter to this position. I can tell you both that the only way ancient man could pass down information was through oral accounts which were told in a story fashion and used allegorical narratives so that the information could be more easily remembered and passed down and you both scream... fairy tale. Which is a wholly unreasonable and an anti-intellectual position.

As for my perception of God which I believe is consistent with ancient man's understanding of God.... There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional beyond energy and matter being outside of all space time. The closest I could come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.

.

I can tell you both that the only way ancient man could pass down information was through oral accounts which were told in a story fashion and used allegorical narratives so that the information could be more easily remembered and passed down and you both scream... fairy tale. Which is a wholly unreasonable and an anti-intellectual position.

.
that is not true and certainly not true during the 1st century ...
.
View attachment 479531
.
and you haven't the faintest idea for oral tradition, it would be as succinct with as few words as possible - the true oral versions that are real. as well as visually verifiable.

what by the 1st century itinerant or their scribe if they had one was etched in stone. or in clay reliefs.

have you any real idea what you believe in really, sinner - - > what is the evidence for your book - when you bad mouth the religion of antiquity passed down centuries from life's beginning its oral and visual form without flaw - the triumph of good vs evil - to accomplish admission to the Everlasting by a freed spirit - - and is a contradiction to christianity and all three desert religions that have abandoned their own heritage.

It certainly is true.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

So dying on a cross to salvage your eternal life wasn't enough? What more do you require? That He fulfills your desires? That He gives you unlimited riches? A sign perhaps?

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.

You will be judged by how you judge others.

subjectively

.
where that ever came from needs to be put to rest - it is not - subjective - to ever judge at all.
.
.

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.
believed what ram - christianity, how without your book. would you really know your messiah without it. to believe dying a sinner is the ticket to heaven. not from the 1st century you wouldn't.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.
the liberation theology the itinerant died for, triumph over evil, is not to be found in your 4th century book - nor have you brought to justice those that crucified them - or those followers that did believe in their message likewise put to death - till misconstrued, the christian bible rewards the crucifiers and was written by them -

good luck ram, content with living in sin. you are not a follower of who died otherwise. than to sin and stay alive.

The fourth century book. Surely by now, with all the importance given to the book, we have located the true author. Who was he and where did his remarkable ability to foresee the future come from? You can't even tell me who will win the Kentucky Derby and it is only a few weeks from now.
Who wrote the book?

 

[BreezeWood]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

So dying on a cross to salvage your eternal life wasn't enough? What more do you require? That He fulfills your desires? That He gives you unlimited riches? A sign perhaps?

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.

You will be judged by how you judge others.

subjectively

.
where that ever came from needs to be put to rest - it is not - subjective - to ever judge at all.
.
.

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.
believed what ram - christianity, how without your book. would you really know your messiah without it. to believe dying a sinner is the ticket to heaven. not from the 1st century you wouldn't.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.
the liberation theology the itinerant died for, triumph over evil, is not to be found in your 4th century book - nor have you brought to justice those that crucified them - or those followers that did believe in their message likewise put to death - till misconstrued, the christian bible rewards the crucifiers and was written by them -

good luck ram, content with living in sin. you are not a follower of who died otherwise. than to sin and stay alive.

The fourth century book. Surely by now, with all the importance given to the book, we have located the true author. Who was he and where did his remarkable ability to foresee the future come from? You can't even tell me who will win the Kentucky Derby and it is only a few weeks from now.
Who wrote the book?

.

The fourth century book. Surely by now, with all the importance given to the book, we have located the true author. Who was he and where did his remarkable ability to foresee the future come from? You can't even tell me who will win the Kentucky Derby and it is only a few weeks from now.
Who wrote the book?

.
not sure what you were saying above, I've stated who they were who wrote the christian bible other than that its is also true not one word was written by the religious itinerant that gave their life is found within its covers or the liberation theology they died for.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Surely the actual writer deserves accolades for his ability to foretell the future, as 1/4 of the book is prophecy

Yet not a shred of it has come to pass.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It has and continues to come to pass:
700 years before Christ's birth, Micah told us where He would be born.
Which Jewish line Christ would come from.
What the public would call Him.
That His robe would be gambled over.
Zechariah told us how much Christ would be betrayed for. What the currency would be made of. Where it would end up and what it was used for afterward.
1000 years before the event, and before the practice was invented, it was foretold that the Messiah would be crucified.
That His body would be pierced.
Buried in a rich man's tomb.
Christ, Himself fulfilled 48 prophesies. The chance of that alone would be 1 to the 157th power:
1 in 10,000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000.

For the first time in the history of man, all of the prophesies that needed to be fulfilled before Christ returns have been fulfilled. There is more prophesy concerning the End Time than any other time in history. We are fulfilling those now. Here are some foretold:
The Jews will return to their land.
They will take control of Jerusalem.
The nation would be born in a day.
They will return to their ancient language, which has never happened with a dispersed people.
And they are preparing to rebuild the foretold Temple.


Now you, human. Tell me what horse is going to win the Derby next month...

 

[The Irish Ram]

I want to believe in God, and would if I could find the slightest reason to. That would be the greatest thing ever to have a personal relationship with an all knowing, all powerful God who cares about me, and comforts me in the hard times. I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

So dying on a cross to salvage your eternal life wasn't enough? What more do you require? That He fulfills your desires? That He gives you unlimited riches? A sign perhaps?

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.

You will be judged by how you judge others.

subjectively

.
where that ever came from needs to be put to rest - it is not - subjective - to ever judge at all.
.
.

Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

.
believed what ram - christianity, how without your book. would you really know your messiah without it. to believe dying a sinner is the ticket to heaven. not from the 1st century you wouldn't.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.

He returned from the dead. No matter what they were threatened with, the followers of Christ simply would not denounce Him, and the Word spread, and books other than the Bible were written.

.
the liberation theology the itinerant died for, triumph over evil, is not to be found in your 4th century book - nor have you brought to justice those that crucified them - or those followers that did believe in their message likewise put to death - till misconstrued, the christian bible rewards the crucifiers and was written by them -

good luck ram, content with living in sin. you are not a follower of who died otherwise. than to sin and stay alive.

The fourth century book. Surely by now, with all the importance given to the book, we have located the true author. Who was he and where did his remarkable ability to foresee the future come from? You can't even tell me who will win the Kentucky Derby and it is only a few weeks from now.
Who wrote the book?

.

The fourth century book. Surely by now, with all the importance given to the book, we have located the true author. Who was he and where did his remarkable ability to foresee the future come from? You can't even tell me who will win the Kentucky Derby and it is only a few weeks from now.
Who wrote the book?

.
not sure what you were saying above, I've stated who they were who wrote the christian bible other than that its is also true not one word was written by the religious itinerant that gave their life is found within its covers or the liberation theology they died for.

State it again, because I missed it. What was his name and where did he get the ability to see into the future?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

700 years before Christ's birth, Micah told us where He would be born.

And he wasn't born there. Jesus of Nazareth was from...Nazareth. I stopped there. They had to include this fraud to match the prophecy.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Which Jewish line Christ would come from.

But not Joseph's son. So another bit of a fraudulent oopsie there.

I know your faith handicaps you in rationally assessing this, but you should still ne able to understand that the people who wrote the gospels had the prophecies to read, and then fulfilled them as best they could. Which means they didn't actually come true. That's how Jesus of Nazareth has to be moved to Bethlehem, and how they can enjoy the contradictory notions of immaculate conception and the line of David. It would be so obvious to you, were it any other work of fiction but this one.