Trump wants $230,000,000.00 from the US taxpayer.

[ThisIsMe]

Most of the rules about classified documents are administrative rules. There’s very few laws and if the vice president deals with classified documents in an open manner in their residence, they’re not actually breaking any laws.

there is a difference in having them at their vice presidential residence and taking them to your personal home and other places.

VPs still have to follow protocols for handling these things. They dont get to ignore the rules of classified material handling just because they are VP. All of this stuff is tracked, and has to be returned to its place of custody. The idea that they could accidently be placed into boxes and taken home doesnt make any sense and is illogical. Again, if that happened, then it is clearly mishandling.

Except you don’t because it requires willfulness. You can’t prosecute an accident.

but it was already found it was willful. How do you explain how biden took items from the scif as senator? You seem to be of the impression that they can take these documents and just leave them laying around wherever and anyone walking past can pick them up and stuff them into boxes with personal items. If thats the way our nation's secrets are handled, then boy, we are in trouble.

He only said it after he was caught red handed after the search warrant produced extra documents he had been hiding from the DoJ, which is very illegal.

of course, but he didnt try to make excuses. He came out and said that he took them because he felt he had a right.

Just because he had the documents doesn’t mean it was willful.

"Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified material". If he kept them, then he violated the rules regarding the handling of classified materials. That's willful. Where was NARA in all of this by the way.

You’re not being completely accurate. Hur said there was evidence he did so but the evidence couldn’t prove it. You need to reflect the content of the Hur report accurately.

Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained
and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private
citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and
foreign policy in Afghanistan, and (2) notebooks containing Mr. Biden's handwritten
entries about issues of national security and foreign policy implicating sensitive
intelligence sources and methods. FBI agents recovered these materials from the
garage, offices, and basement den in Mr. Biden's Wilmington, Delaware home.

If you are in possession of classified materials, it is up to you to handle them properly. This includes returning them to their place of custody once you are done with them, not leaving them around for staffers to pack them into personal items when you are leaving the white house.

If trump had said "oops, i forgot those were there" would you all have have him that consideration? I seriously doubt it.

Remember, 31 of the 37 counts in the charges against him were for retaining and failure to deliver documents under the espionage act. That's the exact same thing biden did.

 

[ThisIsMe]

People forget, not only were the documents "classified" but they were US Government property. The president can declassify anything. But he can't take government property with him. Trump doesn't get to keep AF-1, or the presidential limo, or gifts from foreign leaders.

Hmm, I think they can keep the limo, or at least the beast that clinton rode in is sitting in his library.

As far as classified documents, im not saying trump was right, im saying thats the excuse he used.

The point here isnt to absolve trump of his wrongs, its to find out why dems wont hold biden accountable for his.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Trump was of course NOT right and only used that excuse in public, where lies don't get you fines and jail time, as they do in court.

Trump of course did and was charged with doing things Biden, Pence, even Bolton did not do. Like conspiracy to obstruct. Like, refusing to return documents the government knew he had.

 

[Marener]

there is a difference in having them at their vice presidential residence and taking them to your personal home and other places.

VPs still have to follow protocols for handling these things. They dont get to ignore the rules of classified material handling just because they are VP. All of this stuff is tracked, and has to be returned to its place of custody. The idea that they could accidently be placed into boxes and taken home doesnt make any sense and is illogical. Again, if that happened, then it is clearly mishandling.

There are thorough investigative reports on this and it’s exactly how it happened. For both Biden and Trump. Classified documents aren’t tracked as closely as you think.

It’s not illegal.

but it was already found it was willful. How do you explain how biden took items from the scif as senator? You seem to be of the impression that they can take these documents and just leave them laying around wherever and anyone walking past can pick them up and stuff them into boxes with personal items. If thats the way our nation's secrets are handled, then boy, we are in trouble.

You’re mischaracterizing the Hur report. There is evidence that it was willful but not beyond a reasonable doubt. He didn’t take them from a SCIF.

For Trump, there was evidence beyond a reasonable doubt it was willful.

of course, but he didnt try to make excuses. He came out and said that he took them because he felt he had a right.

Saying he took them because he felt he had the right is an excuse, and it doesn’t make it okay. It definitely doesn’t make obstruction of justice okay.

"Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified material". If he kept them, then he violated the rules regarding the handling of classified materials. That's willful. Where was NARA in all of this by the way.

You can’t just put quotes around something and pretend it’s legit.

If you are in possession of classified materials, it is up to you to handle them properly. This includes returning them to their place of custody once you are done with them, not leaving them around for staffers to pack them into personal items when you are leaving the white house.

Okay, but that still doesn’t violate the law.

If trump had said "oops, i forgot those were there" would you all have have him that consideration? I seriously doubt it.

Remember, 31 of the 37 counts in the charges against him were for retaining and failure to deliver documents under the espionage act. That's the exact same thing biden did.

Yes, actually. If Trump had actually turned everything over after his presidency it would have been much harder to prosecute him. It would be pretty believable that he accidentally packed up classified documents.

Except we know that isn’t what happened.

 

[ThisIsMe]

There are thorough investigative reports on this and it’s exactly how it happened. For both Biden and Trump. Classified documents aren’t tracked as closely as you think.

It’s not illegal.

Sure, part of that is because of his appearing as a well meaning elderly man, part of that is because he forgot he had them. How would that defense work for anyone else?

You’re mischaracterizing the Hur report. There is evidence that it was willful but not beyond a reasonable doubt. He didn’t take them from a SCIF.

As a senator, they have to review classified materials in secure areas, they cant just take them back to their personal offices. If biden had those documents at his home, that means he took them from those secure areas.

Saying he took them because he felt he had the right is an excuse, and it doesn’t make it okay. It definitely doesn’t make obstruction of justice okay.

I agree, but were talking about biden not being held to the same standard.

Okay, but that still doesn’t violate the law.

So, if he took materials from their secure location against the rules of handling classified materials, left them in places where his staffers, who probably dont have clearances to see them, have access to them, pack them up in boxes, and removed them from the building and taken to his personal home, that doesnt violate the law?

Yes, actually. If Trump had actually turned everything over after his presidency it would have been much harder to prosecute him. It would be pretty believable that he accidentally packed up classified documents.

31 of the charges were for retention of classified material, seperate from the obstruction charge, if all of this is no big deal, then why did smith even charge him with that? Why not just charge for the obstruction? Smith apparently thought trump even having the materials was a pretry big deal.

 

[Marener]

Sure, part of that is because of his appearing as a well meaning elderly man, part of that is because he forgot he had them. How would that defense work for anyone else?

It works for lots of people. We don't prosecute people who accidentally mishandle documents. That happens on a more frequent basis than you may think.

As a senator, they have to review classified materials in secure areas, they cant just take them back to their personal offices. If biden had those documents at his home, that means he took them from those secure areas.

Not exactly. The documents Biden had as a Senator are from a foreign tour. They are given those documents in their travel binders. Low level classified documents aren't viewed in a SCIF, that would be absurd.

I agree, but were talking about biden not being held to the same standard.

Standards apply to similar behavior. As we have discussed at length, there is not equivalent behavior between Trump and Biden. There is FAR from equivalent behavior. You habitually ignore the obstruction of justice, witness tampering, attempts to destroy evidence. These things apply to Trump and not Biden.

So, if he took materials from their secure location against the rules of handling classified materials, left them in places where his staffers, who probably dont have clearances to see them, have access to them, pack them up in boxes, and removed them from the building and taken to his personal home, that doesnt violate the law?

The vice president's residence is a secure location. If they were accidentally placed into boxes to take home, it does not violate the law.

31 of the charges were for retention of classified material, seperate from the obstruction charge, if all of this is no big deal, then why did smith even charge him with that? Why not just charge for the obstruction? Smith apparently thought trump even having the materials was a pretry big deal.

It's always a big deal, but it's only illegal when you can prove willfulness. That was very easy to prove for Trump and unable to be proven for Biden. This last point is key, but you just seem to ignore it.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It works for lots of people. We don't prosecute people who accidentally mishandle documents. That happens on a more frequent basis than you may think.

Then our system of guarding our nation's secrets is weak. Apparently, any senator, staffer, janitor, or service company can have access to our nation's secrets because apparently, senators can just leave them lying around wherever, and have no requirement to follow the rules regarding handling.

Not exactly. The documents Biden had as a Senator are from a foreign tour. They are given those documents in their travel binders. Low level classified documents aren't viewed in a SCIF, that would be absurd.

Some of the documents were related to the US military, some of them marked top secret.

Standards apply to similar behavior. As we have discussed at length, there is not equivalent behavior between Trump and Biden. There is FAR from equivalent behavior. You habitually ignore the obstruction of justice, witness tampering, attempts to destroy evidence. These things apply to Trump and not Biden.

I acknowledge them, but 31 of the charges are related to trumps just having the materials, then there are other charges on top of that for obstruction.

The vice president's residence is a secure location. If they were accidentally placed into boxes to take home, it does not violate the law.

His garage at his home in Delaware is a secure place? Where his son, any visitors, his cleaning staff has access to them?

It's always a big deal, but it's only illegal when you can prove willfulness. That was very easy to prove for Trump and unable to be proven for Biden. This last point is key, but you just seem to ignore it.

Biden told his ghost writer that he had classified documents in his house, this means he knew about them. That proves willfulness.

 

[postman]

I agree, but were talking about biden not being held to the same standard.

You mean the standard set by Ronald Reagan, who was allowed to take classified information (in the form of a diary) home.

 

[ThisIsMe]

You mean the standard set by Ronald Reagan, who was allowed to take classified information (in the form of a diary) home.

Because his personal diary was not considered presidential records by the PRA.

 

[Marener]

Then our system of guarding our nation's secrets is weak. Apparently, any senator, staffer, janitor, or service company can have access to our nation's secrets because apparently, senators can just leave them lying around wherever, and have no requirement to follow the rules regarding handling.

You're flipping between vice president and senator roles. They're different. Vice presidents like the president handle documents in a open manner as their residences are secure locations and they deal with a lot of material. It's been known for a while that low level classified documents that are part of travel packets for Senators tend to get mishandled. NARA has seen this dozens of times.

Some of the documents were related to the US military, some of them marked top secret.

That's not true for his documents that date back to his Senate career. As vice president, he would have access to these documents outside a SCIF.

I acknowledge them, but 31 of the charges are related to trumps just having the materials, then there are other charges on top of that for obstruction.

Just saying they aren't equivalent situations and so you can't claim that there's a double standard. Double standards an only apply to similar behavior and we just don't have that here.

His garage at his home in Delaware is a secure place? Where his son, any visitors, his cleaning staff has access to them?

It was when he was Vice President. You missed the second sentence saying that they were packed into boxes and taken home.

Biden told his ghost writer that he had classified documents in his house, this means he knew about them. That proves willfulness.

Yes, and that single comment constitutes the entirety of the evidence that it was willful, which is a serious weakness in the case. As Hur pointed out, there were numerous defenses against this conclusion which could convince a reasonable juror and therefore this is insufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

When it comes to Trump, there is no doubt as to willfulness. As you pointed out, he admitted it fully and openly.

 

[Marener]

Because his personal diary was not considered presidential records by the PRA.

But it was considered classified, meaning Reagan technically violated the espionage act.

 

[Captain Caveman]

President Trump is demanding that the Justice Department pay him about $230 million in compensation for the federal investigations into him, according to people familiar with the matter, who added that any settlement might ultimately be approved by senior department officials who defended him or those in his orbit.

The situation has no parallel in American history, as Mr. Trump, a presidential candidate, was pursued by federal law enforcement and eventually won the election, taking over the very government that must now review his claims. It is also the starkest example yet of potential ethical conflicts created by installing the president’s former lawyers atop the Justice Department.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/21/us/politics/trump-justice-department-compensation.html

***********************************************************************************
Given that the Trump Administration is an open sewer of corruption, it is no surprise that he wants 1/4 billion from us. Trump has his sycophants in place, so he will be paid what he wants. The Trump family which has made billions off his cryptocurrency scams also has an insatiable appetite for more money. The monetization of the presidency continues. Trump's greed has no bounds.

Let's face it. The US we knew is no longer. We live in a kleptocracy.

Doesn't matter who you are in the UK, you can sue the government and get a fair trial. Do you have that freedom in the US?

 

[postman]

Not exactly. The documents Biden had as a Senator are from a foreign tour. They are given those documents in their travel binders. Low level classified documents aren't viewed in a SCIF, that would be absurd.

Amazing the crap these people try to pull out of their ass to try and justify a clear multiple violations with conspiratorial intent.
Where Biden, Pence, etc, all relinquished any classified documents as soon as they found out they had them.

 

[Dekster]

If he does this, he will be impeached and removed. Surely even he knows this.

 

[Marener]

If he does this, he will be impeached and removed. Surely even he knows this.

Ha! Impeached by who?

 

[postman]

Biden told his ghost writer that he had classified documents in his house, this means he knew about them. That proves willfulness.

"Classified confidential" is a term that uses "classified" as the general category and "confidential" as the specific level of classification, which is the lowest of the three main levels: Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret.

Confidential is the lowest level of U.S. government classification, and while it must be kept secure, it can be viewed and stored in a secure space that does not have to be a SCIF

 

[IM2]

It already did come out of our pockets, Einstein---when the corrupt Biden admin exercised lawfare for four solid years.

That's not what happened.

 

[postman]

Ha! Impeached by who?

The republican congress has become an inside joke. Even the supreme court makes decisions with a "wink-wink nudge-nudge". One example is where they threw out sections of the voting rights act, and if congress wants to retain the pre-clearance section , they just have to pass it all over again.

 

[ThisIsMe]

You're flipping between vice president and senator roles. They're different. Vice presidents like the president handle documents in a open manner as their residences are secure locations and they deal with a lot of material. It's been known for a while that low level classified documents that are part of travel packets for Senators tend to get mishandled. NARA has seen this dozens of times.

I haven't found a single thing that says they can handle documents in an "open manner" while at their residence. Everything ive found says that even at their residence, the procedures are complex and still have to be followed.

That's not true for his documents that date back to his Senate career. As vice president, he would have access to these documents outside a SCIF.

Yes, but the ones as a senator he would have had to have taken. As a VP, he is also bound by the rules. Saying they could have accidently gotten packed up means those rules were not followed.

Just saying they aren't equivalent situations and so you can't claim that there's a double standard. Double standards an only apply to similar behavior and we just don't have that here.

The double standard is both took classified materials willingly. Only one was charged.

It was when he was Vice President. You missed the second sentence saying that they were packed into boxes and taken home.

Its not secure if his groundskeeper, cleaning staff, hunter biden, and any of his friends he had visit, could have access to them. They were sitting in boxes in a garage.

Yes, and that single comment constitutes the entirety of the evidence that it was willful, which is a serious weakness in the case. As Hur pointed out, there were numerous defenses against this conclusion which could convince a reasonable juror and therefore this is insufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yeah, they thought they couldn't convict him becasue he was an elderly man who "forgot".

When it comes to Trump, there is no doubt as to willfulness. As you pointed out, he admitted it fully and openly.

Yes, and I agree, but the left is jumping through every hoop to absolve biden.

The difference is, trump believed he had the right because he was president with broad declassificarion authority, Biden had no authority at all.

The "i forgot" defense doesnt work anywhere else. If I go shopping and put a bunch of stuff in my cart but only pay for half of them, if I get caught, I cant use the "i forgot" defense. If be arrested for shoplifting.

 

[ThisIsMe]

"Classified confidential" is a term that uses "classified" as the general category and "confidential" as the specific level of classification, which is the lowest of the three main levels: Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret.

Confidential is the lowest level of U.S. government classification, and while it must be kept secure, it can be viewed and stored in a secure space that does not have to be a SCIF

Biden had top secret materials at his house.